To Mac or not to Mac? That is the question

keefg

So.......I am thinking of getting a new laptop and after years and years of using a PC and "normal" lappy (MS software etc) I am seriously thinking of switching to a Mac notebook.

Reasons I can think of to switch....

1) I hate Windows Vista (my lappy is running XP)

2) I am fed up with having to restart my lappy everyday (sometimes more) to install updates.

3) I am fed up with Outlook working when it feels like it and not when I need it

4) I am doing more and more video editing and thinking of buying Final Cut Express

5) I am fed up having to restart my lappy (and PC for that matter) because some programs don't start first time.


Reasons why I am hesitant to switch.....

1) I am so used to Microsoft and am concerned that I just won't like the Mac

2) I have a load of software already installed on my lappy for video transfer, photo editing etc and I am worried that I might not be able to switch it all over to the Mac

3) I still have a PC which I use at home and I transfer files etc to and from the PC all the time.

I know the first list outweigh's the second but I am just worried that I go out and spend my hard earned cash on a Mac lappy and I just can't work with it.


So.........any arguments/advice for and against switching to a Mac?

cheers

Adam

As there was a recent thread started on this which I myself hopped on also, I thought I'd post it. Now I've played with the suggestions of Linux distros myself so the advice given didn't apply to me, but perhaps wirth a read for yourself?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055298998

Hugh_C

keefg wrote: »

Reasons why I am hesitant to switch.....

1) I am so used to Microsoft and am concerned that I just won't like the Mac

2) I have a load of software already installed on my lappy for video transfer, photo editing etc and I am worried that I might not be able to switch it all over to the Mac

3) I still have a PC which I use at home and I transfer files etc to and from the PC all the time.

I'm a long-time Mac user.

The Mac OS X is pretty intuitive and doesn't require much learning. It's pretty obvious how to do most stuff, and networking is generally a breeze, wired or wireless. I wouldn't let point 1 worry you.

If you're talking about licenses for point 2, I think some manufacturers allow you purchase cheap transfer licenses, not sure because I've never switched. If you can be more specific about what software, perhaps I can suggest free alternatives. Some photo software comes free with the OS (iPhoto) and there's always the Gimp for a free PhotoShop alternative.

For point 3 they'll happily co-exist.

keefg

Thanks guys. I didn't know there was a Mac forum on here......I shall have a dig through that for more info.

papu

keefg wrote: »

So.......I am thinking of getting a new laptop and after years and years of using a PC and "normal" lappy (MS software etc) I am seriously thinking of switching to a Mac notebook.

Reasons I can think of to switch....

1) I hate Windows Vista (my lappy is running XP)

2) I am fed up with having to restart my lappy everyday (sometimes more) to install updates.

3) I am fed up with Outlook working when it feels like it and not when I need it

4) I am doing more and more video editing and thinking of buying Final Cut Express

5) I am fed up having to restart my lappy (and PC for that matter) because some programs don't start first time.


Reasons why I am hesitant to switch.....

1) I am so used to Microsoft and am concerned that I just won't like the Mac

2) I have a load of software already installed on my lappy for video transfer, photo editing etc and I am worried that I might not be able to switch it all over to the Mac

3) I still have a PC which I use at home and I transfer files etc to and from the PC all the time.

I know the first list outweigh's the second but I am just worried that I go out and spend my hard earned cash on a Mac lappy and I just can't work with it.


So.........any arguments/advice for and against switching to a Mac?

cheers

your deffo doing somthing wrong there i dont reboot my laptop for maybe every month for updates (running windows vista) i just put the lappy into hibernate all the time.

Macs are simply simple to use but you pay a great premium to have your bsods turn white.

and you do know you can edit without a mac? programs like premier Pro and Avid are just as good if not better for casual use?

1) I am so used to Microsoft and am concerned that I just won't like the Mac

zilog_jones

keefg wrote: »

1) I hate Windows Vista (my lappy is running XP)

Who doesn't? Microsoft apparently don't like it either, with all these recent announcements about Windows 7. But do you like OS X? Have you used it much? I haven't either but I don't really like the prospect of being so restricted in what software and hardware I can use. If it wasn't for the fact that Windows is the de facto standard OS and there's so much 3rd party support for it I wouldn't bother with it at all. I think you should "try before you buy", though how to do that is the problem. There's "ways" of running OS X on a non-Apple PC but they may not be by the most legitimate of means...

2) I am fed up with having to restart my lappy everyday (sometimes more) to install updates.

Windows updates are usually only released every 2nd tuesday of a month. Something's going wrong. Do you have Service Pack 3?

3) I am fed up with Outlook working when it feels like it and not when I need it

Tried Thunderbird, Opera, etc.? I see no point in Outlook unless you're connecting to a Microsoft Exchange server (are you?).

papu

zilog_jones wrote: »

Who doesn't?

well i know lots of people who think Vista > Xp
whats your problems with it? it really shouldnt be run on a laptop with less than 2gigs of ram and a 1.6C2d

TerrorFirmer

Macs are great for a certain use and all, but that list you've compiled of reasons to switch is bizarre - basically, problems that are bizarre and not typical of Windows. Programs not starting first time? Restarting more then once a day for updates? Something is seriously wrong there and it's not fundamentally Windows.

keefg

Thanks for the feedback guys.

You're probably right in saying I have problems with my current laptop. It is completely full of software and other "junk" that unfortunately I need for work.

It is about 2 years old and is really slow, when I try to play videos on any media player (WMP, Quicktime etc) it is like watching stop motion animation rather than a smooth hi quality video. I only have about 3 gig of space left on my hard drives (yes, I know I should buy an external one).

I agree with zilog_jones though.....Vista is just pure sh1te. My wife has it on her laptop and I can't get on with it at all. I think you're right in saying MS dont like it either. I had a look at prices on the Dell website and they are offering the option to run on XP instead of Vista.....that alone speaks volumes.

Speaking of Dell, I did a price comparison between the Mac I was looking at and a similer spec Dell and there was only 300 euro in the difference (Dell was the cheapest) so the price difference isn't an issue and wont sway my decision either way.

I do need need a new laptop anyway because the one I have just isn't powerfull enough for what I use it for.

I do know someone with a Mac laptop so I might ask him very nicely if I can borrow it for a week, see how I get on with it.

It's really weird, everyone I have spoken to about this who own a MS powered laptop says "Pah.....don't waste your money on a Mac, they are just for show.......only poncey graphic designers own a Mac notebook " and Mac owners swear by their Mac (some are MS converts) and say they will never use a "normal" pc or laptop again. The mantra I keep hearing from Mac owners is that the "Just work...everytime"

Thanks again.

Dartz

http//:www.xubuntu.org

Another OS that 'Just works'

If I can install and run this happily.... anybody can. It's not just Mac -v- Windows. And Macs are always more expensive than an equivelent Window's based options.

for a leftfield idea, why not just buy a Dell and stick a Linux distro on it. *buntu's are pretty intuitive, and with Wine running, it'll make with a good few Window's app's if you need it too.

It costs...literally... nothing.... and there's no activation or DRM to worry about.

Only problem is the patchy quality of some software packages, and geeky penguin-nerd image.... otherwise, recent Linux distro's are pretty good. It costs nothing but bandwith and time...

Unlike OSX

papu

keefg wrote: »

Thanks for the feedback guys.

You're probably right in saying I have problems with my current laptop. It is completely full of software and other "junk" that unfortunately I need for work.

It is about 2 years old and is really slow, when I try to play videos on any media player (WMP, Quicktime etc) it is like watching stop motion animation rather than a smooth hi quality video. I only have about 3 gig of space left on my hard drives (yes, I know I should buy an external one).

I agree with zilog_jones though.....Vista is just pure sh1te. My wife has it on her laptop and I can't get on with it at all. I think you're right in saying MS dont like it either. I had a look at prices on the Dell website and they are offering the option to run on XP instead of Vista.....that alone speaks volumes.

Speaking of Dell, I did a price comparison between the Mac I was looking at and a similer spec Dell and there was only 300 euro in the difference (Dell was the cheapest) so the price difference isn't an issue and wont sway my decision either way.

I do need need a new laptop anyway because the one I have just isn't powerfull enough for what I use it for.

I do know someone with a Mac laptop so I might ask him very nicely if I can borrow it for a week, see how I get on with it.

It's really weird, everyone I have spoken to about this who own a MS powered laptop says "Pah.....don't waste your money on a Mac, they are just for show.......only poncey graphic designers own a Mac notebook " and Mac owners swear by their Mac (some are MS converts) and say they will never use a "normal" pc or laptop again. The mantra I keep hearing from Mac owners is that the "Just work...everytime"

Thanks again.

if your only experiance of vista is it running on 2 year old hardware and laptops no wonder. i'm quite sure if you stick Osx on its bare minimum requirements it wont be much fun at all.

art

keefg wrote: »

It's really weird, everyone I have spoken to about this who own a MS powered laptop says "Pah.....don't waste your money on a Mac, they are just for show.......only poncey graphic designers own a Mac notebook " and Mac owners swear by their Mac (some are MS converts) and say they will never use a "normal" pc or laptop again. The mantra I keep hearing from Mac owners is that the "Just work...everytime"

Thanks again.

I have a Win2000 PC, a Win2000 laptop, a Vista laptop, a Linux laptop and a XP PC. My wife uses a OSX Macbook. I've said this before but if I'm at home and in a rush to look up something on the net, check mail, or just do something, I tend to grab my wife's mac - she's had it about three years and it just sits there doing it's job, quick, responsive, steady etc etc. The other option is the Linux one. The vista laptop I keep in hibernate mode to enable quick starts but even though I've hardly touched it's initial config I've had several blue screens on it, really surprised at how unstable it is and boy can it be slow sometimes just doing ordinary stuff like copying files etc. irrespective of the fact it is a high spec laptop. The XP I've worked on a lot, and spent eons getting it configured right, so that is very stable now and works well, just a bit slow on boot up but I'd personally agree that currently, a mature XP is a lot better than the stillborn Vista.

Anyhow, I work in IT and generally meet three groups when doing development, Mac book owners, Win2000 owners and Linux owners (no-one I know has either XP or Vista as their work machine). So think it will come just down to your personal response to using the new OS - certainly as a technology, the Mac OS is excellent and the build quality of their PCs and laptops seems wonderful - and secondly whether the software available to the Mac meets your needs satisfactorily. But I doubt you'll regret the switch going by what I've seen of other people's experiences.

keefg

art wrote: »

I have a Win2000 PC, a Win2000 laptop, a Vista laptop, a Linux laptop and a XP PC.

Wow...you really are a computer junkie!

Some good comments there art.

Cheers.

I think I just need to get my hands on a Mac for a week and I think that will help me decide.

FruitLover

Almost every one of your complaints in the OP are Windows-specific. Wouldn't it make more sense to try another OS on your existing laptop first (e.g. [X]Ubuntu) before shelling out for a whole new laptop?

papu

FruitLover wrote: »

Almost every one of your complaints in the OP are Windows-specific. Wouldn't it make more sense to try another OS on your existing laptop first (e.g. [X]Ubuntu) before shelling out for a whole new laptop?

yes but with 99.999999999% of everybody else not having the problem PEBKAC

Mary28

I'll be getting a laptop in the next few mths and was thinking about Mac also. After reading this thread I've just looked at their site and I have to say the prices are extremely high. When you consider the depreciation and how quickly laptop specs become old I don't think I'm prepared to spend this much. It's literally double what I'm seeing for same spec machines of other brands.
I'll be a casual enough user - using it for surfing and college work. I work in IT and am used to high spec machines so I'd like a decent spec laptop.

Can anyone tell me approximately how much is the student discount?

Cabaal

I've been using Windows since Windows 3.1 and have been the Windows mod for a few years now, however last year when I decided to buy myself a laptop I forked out for a MacBook and I have to say I'm well impressed.

Built quality is good, software that I've used on OSX just seems more streamlined and less "buggy" then windows...one example of this is Adobe Lightroom.

I'm so happy with my MacBook that when I decided to replace my desktop computer which is currently almost 3 years old and runs XP I'll be buying a iMac

TheVan

I switched from a Dell to a Mac in September and to be honest, I couldn't be happier!

The switchover in operating systems wasn't difficult at all. I'll admit I'm fairly computer literate but I can't write code or anything and I found the Mac intuitive and not complicated at all.

Some of the improvements I've noted.....some may consider these small, but its the small things that count...

1. My programs never crash....ever...
2. No worries about viruses
3. A search system for the whole computer (spotlight)...I know google have one for a PC but to be honest it never worked well for me
4. Little flashy things like the Dashboard (hard to explain...it might be on the site!)
5. Extremely quick startup and shutdown
6. Seems nicer for playing dvds on....I don't know if its the screen or what (and I presume its hardware, not the operating system), but its very clear and well defined....and there's a remote!
7. I found all the programs I use can be obtained on the Mac as well, especially Word etc....although a friend of mine uses Publisher and complains that its not on his mac....but who uses Publisher??
8. Personally, I think the calendar program is brilliant

My big con is that there are very few games for the mac. I used to play games a good bit but I got out of that phase and so it wasn't a big disappointment for me....although it would be nice to have the ability to!

I'm sure there are more and better reasons why I like the mac but these are the ones that come to mind.......I'm a convert for life now!

papu

TheVan wrote: »

1. My programs never crash....ever...
2. No worries about viruses
3. A search system for the whole computer (spotlight)...I know google have one for a PC but to be honest it never worked well for me
4. Little flashy things like the Dashboard (hard to explain...it might be on the site!)
5. Extremely quick startup and shutdown
6. Seems nicer for playing dvds on....I don't know if its the screen or what (and I presume its hardware, not the operating system), but its very clear and well defined....and there's a remote!
7. I found all the programs I use can be obtained on the Mac as well, especially Word etc....although a friend of mine uses Publisher and complains that its not on his mac....but who uses Publisher??
8. Personally, I think the calendar program is brilliant

My big con is that there are very few games for the mac. I used to play games a good bit but I got out of that phase and so it wasn't a big disappointment for me....although it would be nice to have the ability to!
!

heh i could say the exact same for my dell 1530 running vista , it also only cost 870 ex vat

sebastianlieken

Mod edit: this is not After Hours

Nothing else need be said :P

papu

<snip>


that dell looks pimp

zilog_jones

TheVan wrote: »

[*]No worries about viruses

Contrary to popular belief, viruses do exist for OS X. I do not know how prolific they are though. Several vulnerabilities were also discovered in 2006 (mostly related to 3rd party drivers) - one would hope Apple have sorted this out by this stage but there's apparently not a lot of info about this stuff around...

_tony_

I recently got my first MacBook, but am not as impressed as others are...

The build quality is great, not as good as a thinkpad, but the next best. Much better than dell.

MacOS looks great. There is a learning curve with it though, everyday I'm still learning how to do things and because of that Im getting less work done than if I was using a pc. I know this is temporary though, after a while I'll learn how to use it.

Third party applications is a big problem for Macs, what is available is generally about 2 years older than the current versions on windows/linux, and suffers from stability issues. For example, I recently installed Inkscape "for Mac os leopard" on my new macbook; it didnt work after installing it though, I had to google about for a half hour to find some text file somewhere that needed to be edited in order to get it to work. I've come across problems like this with a whole bunch of applications now.

The packaged software seems to be of a lower quality - Safari crashes on me everyday - even on apples website sometimes. Also, when it crashes, it can't "resume" the webbrowsing tabs like firefox does. I have since installed firefox. Itunes will also crash from time to time; the current version doesnt like when the laptop is put into hibernation while listening to internet radio.

The standard apple "office" programs are missing a lot of features you will expect if you use microsoft office. Openoffice will offer you a lot of these features though.

MacOS X is incredibly bloated. The out of the box version installed will take about 20gb off your harddisk. Programs you download from the internet will typically be about 4 times bigger than their windows/linux versions due to this "universal binary" milarky.

While most of my points are negative, Mac OS looks nice, and their hardware is nice. If you want a laptop for basic internet, music, or reading PDFs they are great. Their biggest advantage is their looks. For me, I had to install firefox, and then openoffice, just to get the basic things I need for work. Now I also have to install a more stable media player, over time I guess I'm going to end up installing "linux/windows" ports of mac software, because they seem to work better, even although the ports will never work as nicely as they do on their native platform.

All in all, I think the Mac is ok - has advantages and disadvantages. If I were to have to pay for it myself (I get my laptops free from work), I would go for a much higher spec PC based laptop for the same price, which would also have up-to-date software. I've had 6+ laptops over the past few years - Dell's, thinkpad, asus, mac, etc.. My favourite is the T series thinkpad. Superior quality, all standard parts. Sturdy. But they don't look as pretty as the macs....

ethernet

_tony_ wrote: »

I recently got my first MacBook, but am not as impressed as others are...

The build quality is great, not as good as a thinkpad, but the next best. Much better than dell.

MacOS looks great. There is a learning curve with it though, everyday I'm still learning how to do things and because of that Im getting less work done than if I was using a pc. I know this is temporary though, after a while I'll learn how to use it.

Third party applications is a big problem for Macs, what is available is generally about 2 years older than the current versions on windows/linux, and suffers from stability issues. For example, I recently installed Inkscape "for Mac os leopard" on my new macbook; it didnt work after installing it though, I had to google about for a half hour to find some text file somewhere that needed to be edited in order to get it to work. I've come across problems like this with a whole bunch of applications now.

The packaged software seems to be of a lower quality - Safari crashes on me everyday - even on apples website sometimes. Also, when it crashes, it can't "resume" the webbrowsing tabs like firefox does. I have since installed firefox. Itunes will also crash from time to time; the current version doesnt like when the laptop is put into hibernation while listening to internet radio.

The standard apple "office" programs are missing a lot of features you will expect if you use microsoft office. Openoffice will offer you a lot of these features though.

MacOS X is incredibly bloated. The out of the box version installed will take about 20gb off your harddisk. Programs you download from the internet will typically be about 4 times bigger than their windows/linux versions due to this "universal binary" milarky.

While most of my points are negative, Mac OS looks nice, and their hardware is nice. If you want a laptop for basic internet, music, or reading PDFs they are great. Their biggest advantage is their looks. For me, I had to install firefox, and then openoffice, just to get the basic things I need for work. Now I also have to install a more stable media player, over time I guess I'm going to end up installing "linux/windows" ports of mac software, because they seem to work better, even although the ports will never work as nicely as they do on their native platform.

All in all, I think the Mac is ok - has advantages and disadvantages. If I were to have to pay for it myself (I get my laptops free from work), I would go for a much higher spec PC based laptop for the same price, which would also have up-to-date software. I've had 6+ laptops over the past few years - Dell's, thinkpad, asus, mac, etc.. My favourite is the T series thinkpad. Superior quality, all standard parts. Sturdy. But they don't look as pretty as the macs....

I have to say that a lot of these negatives are actually because of third party software developers and not Mac OS itself.

Apple's site always crashes Firefox for me on Windows and Linux; haven't tried looking at the site on Mac OS using Firefox, however.

Modern operating systems have bigger footprints, both in RAM usage and hard drive usage after a typical install. Vista uses its fare share of HDD space after a typical install also.

The universal binary system eliminates the need to produce individual binaries. Unfortunately, it does take up more space but I think it's actually worth it, IMHO.

Don't forget that you also need to install Firefox and OpenOffice on a default Windows install "just to get the basic things" you need for work. I know this is not the case with Linux.

papu

ethernet wrote: »

I have to say that a lot of these negatives are actually because of third party software developers and not Mac OS itself.

Apple's site always crashes Firefox for me on Windows and Linux; haven't tried looking at the site on Mac OS using Firefox, however.

Modern operating systems have bigger footprints, both in RAM usage and hard drive usage after a typical install. Vista uses its fare share of HDD space after a typical install also.

The universal binary system eliminates the need to produce individual binaries. Unfortunately, it does take up more space but I think it's actually worth it, IMHO.

Don't forget that you also need to install Firefox and OpenOffice on a default Windows install "just to get the basic things" you need for work. I know this is not the case with Linux.

erm no? a vista install takes up far less than 20 gigs .....8gigs to be precise. not to mention that apple machines generally come with less hdd space and if you want to upgrade it on the apple store you'll pay through the bum , and if you wanna put a bigger harddrive in you Mclappy it voids the warranty!
it also comes with microsoft works which includes all you word document and email jobbies.
you do know internet explorer 7? its more secure than safari and not half bad to use.

Mickelodian

Keefg

I have a mac mini in the living room... i use it connected to the TV as a PC for running games/email/playing poker / online tv etc... its small... makes no noise etc... great little machine...dou core and has been running without a reboot for weeks if not months. The downside is bad though... there is a huge gap in software available for the mac and linux....

You can however install windows at root level on the mac using Mac Leopard and Bootcamp.... I hate Vista too and of the 6 macines in the house NONE have vista... i downgraded the lot of them.

So your optimum would be install bootcamp and have XP on one partition and Leopard on the other and then ween yourself onto mac os

Mickelodian

papu wrote: »

erm no? a vista install takes up far less than 20 gigs .....8gigs to be precise..

you are kidding me... 8 gigs.... yeah right... 15 gigs pal... 15 gigs on a 130 gig box.,.... 8 gigs on a 40 gig box... it delibrately swallows up resources... stops you from doing what you want to do... its clumsy... ill thought out.... mostly eye candy useless cr*p and continually asks you to confirm what your doing... also it insists on stearing you onto new software... stops your old software from running.... then to top it all... as if that weren't enough microsoft have installed a hardware identifier that will totally stop you from watching DVD's and even stopped me from playing an AVI I made myself... on that note I reformatted all my machines with XP and that's where I 'll stay until people like you identify all the bugs and MS fix them!

MACs DO have smaller hard drives... bout half the size... 80 gigs on a mac mini.... then again mac applications are about 20-40% the size of PC applications so I suppose that cancels out that problem.... plus there aren't as many apps for the mac so it'd be pretty hard to fill it up with the junk that most of us seem to install on out PC's... I often contemplated the issue and have come to the conclusion that if there was as much third party software for the mac as there is for the PC then the mac would have the same problems


I will accept though that mac technology is darned expensive in ireland.... which is a bloody disgrace.

papu

Mickelodian wrote: »

you are kidding me... 8 gigs.... yeah right... 15 gigs pal... 15 gigs on a 130 gig box.,.... 8 gigs on a 40 gig box... it delibrately swallows up resources... stops you from doing what you want to do... its clumsy... ill thought out.... mostly eye candy useless cr*p and continually asks you to confirm what your doing... also it insists on stearing you onto new software... stops your old software from running.... then to top it all... as if that weren't enough microsoft have installed a hardware identifier that will totally stop you from watching DVD's and even stopped me from playing an AVI I made myself... on that note I reformatted all my machines with XP and that's where I 'll stay until people like you identify all the bugs and MS fix them!

cry some more?

8 gigs

but it really depends what you install with it
my mediacenter vista premium was about 11 gigs but my friends ultimate install was 15 ...its still not quite 20

also once you finish installing there are a few commands you can use to delete the shadow copys of the install if your so inclined.

it uses 50% of your ram at all times no matter how much ram you have , because of prefetching and all that jazz

UAc can be turned off with less than a dozen clicks , and you can switch to windows classic theme if new things frighten you....

also it insists on stearing you onto new software... stops your old software from running.... then to top it all... as if that weren't enough microsoft have installed a hardware identifier that will totally stop you from watching DVD's and even stopped me from playing an AVI I made myself

no idea what your on about here , right click properties RUN IN COMPATABILITY MODE?!
well thats tough my family regularly make home movies and they all play fine on our vista mediacenter.;)

MACs DO have smaller hard drives... bout half the size... 80 gigs on a mac mini.... then again mac applications are about 20-40% the size of PC applications so I suppose that cancels out that problem.... plus there aren't as many apps for the mac so it'd be pretty hard to fill it up with the junk that most of us seem to install on out PC's... I often contemplated the issue and have come to the conclusion that if there was as much third party software for the mac as there is for the PC then the mac would have the same problems

it was said earlier on in the thread because of some universal binary jobbie mac apps were for the most larger!

you can install other things than software on a computer right? games? theres a half a dozen or so macs can play and all other types of media.

Mac "technology" is a rip off where ever you are/

ethernet

papu wrote: »

erm no? a vista install takes up far less than 20 gigs .....8gigs to be precise. not to mention that apple machines generally come with less hdd space and if you want to upgrade it on the apple store you'll pay through the bum , and if you wanna put a bigger harddrive in you Mclappy it voids the warranty!
it also comes with microsoft works which includes all you word document and email jobbies.
you do know internet explorer 7? its more secure than safari and not half bad to use.

Does Works now have an email client?

Yes, I am familiar with Internet Explorer 7, quite hard not to be when it's the default browser in an OS. I suppose you're making reference to the recent hacking fest. Safari was cracked first because of a day-zero exploit. Then Vista was cracked because of an exploit in Flash.

papu

ethernet wrote: »

Does Works now have an email client?

Yes, I am familiar with Internet Explorer 7, quite hard not to be when it's the default browser in an OS. I suppose you're making reference to the recent hacking fest. Safari was cracked first because of a day-zero exploit. Then Vista was cracked because of an exploit in Flash.

yes so then you do not have to install open office or mozilla , because it does everything out of the box :P
shock horror!! A WINDOWS OS WITH FEATURES!!! zomgcake....:pac:

having just tried windows mail its actually really nice for casual use

I suppose you're making reference to the recent hacking fest. Safari was cracked first because of a day-zero exploit. Then Vista was cracked because of an exploit in Flash.

yes but the fact of the matter is that osx machines are not invulnerable. far from it infact

AlmightyCushion

ethernet wrote: »

Does Works now have an email client?

Vista has windows mail, doesn't it? Then for xp there was outlook express. I don't think works comes with every computer though.

papu

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

Vista has windows mail, doesn't it? Then for xp there was outlook express. I don't think works comes with every computer though.

no it doesnt but almost every dell /hp computer comes with it.

_tony_

ethernet wrote: »

I have to say that a lot of these negatives are actually because of third party software developers and not Mac OS itself.

Don't forget that you also need to install Firefox and OpenOffice on a default Windows install "just to get the basic things" you need for work. I know this is not the case with Linux.

I think Mac OS itself is fine - but when using it you need to use these third party apps - which is why I highlighted that 3rd party apps are worse on the mac. I'd agree with you though, my problem with the Macs is that the third party apps are generally "ports" of a program targeted for windows/linux. While on the topic - just noticed that MSN for Mac still doesn't support webcams - how many years ago was this available on Windows.

You don't need to install Firefox or openoffice on a windows based PC. IE is fine for the vast majority of things - and much more stable than safari. Also, is it possible to buy a new pc with Windows installed that doesn't come with either Works or Office? I don't think I've seen a PC come without one of them before- whereas on the mac, you don't get any software like that packaged - instead they want you to go and buy Keynote or Office. - I never had really thought of getting Ms Works for free as anything special until I saw the Macs come with nothing.

I guess the third party apps will always be a problem for the Macs, being the less popular platform. It is a real pitty though - the rest of the setup is very nice.

ec18

had a mac for about 2 months now and have had no problems with it. Firefox and even MSN messenger for mac run much better than they did on my old XP lappy. The open office distro is handy and about the same size as the windows one. Mac's come witha built in mail client thats very good and I prefer it too both thunderbird and outlook.

Personally I'd buy the MAC. It only took me 3-4 days to get used to OSX and the problems with safari were only on the windows version the one for OS is much better :P

papu

ec18 wrote: »

had a mac for about 2 months now and have had no problems with it. Firefox and even MSN messenger for mac run much better than they did on my old XP lappy. The open office distro is handy and about the same size as the windows one. Mac's come witha built in mail client thats very good and I prefer it too both thunderbird and outlook.

Personally I'd buy the MAC. It only took me 3-4 days to get used to OSX and the problems with safari were only on the windows version the one for OS is much better :P

the one for osx was the safari that was hacked within 2 minutes , and im sorry but you really cannot compare open office with office 07 , there in 2 completely different leagues.

Black Swan

keefg wrote: »

2) I have a load of software already installed on my lappy for video transfer, photo editing etc and I am worried that I might not be able to switch it all over to the Mac

3) I still have a PC which I use at home and I transfer files etc to and from the PC all the time.

Two important concerns. PCs and Macs are not always seamless between platforms and programmes, no matter what they tell you.

ethernet

_tony_ wrote: »

I think Mac OS itself is fine - but when using it you need to use these third party apps - which is why I highlighted that 3rd party apps are worse on the mac. I'd agree with you though, my problem with the Macs is that the third party apps are generally "ports" of a program targeted for windows/linux. While on the topic - just noticed that MSN for Mac still doesn't support webcams - how many years ago was this available on Windows.

You don't need to install Firefox or openoffice on a windows based PC. IE is fine for the vast majority of things - and much more stable than safari. Also, is it possible to buy a new pc with Windows installed that doesn't come with either Works or Office? I don't think I've seen a PC come without one of them before- whereas on the mac, you don't get any software like that packaged - instead they want you to go and buy Keynote or Office. - I never had really thought of getting Ms Works for free as anything special until I saw the Macs come with nothing.

I guess the third party apps will always be a problem for the Macs, being the less popular platform. It is a real pitty though - the rest of the setup is very nice.

Fair points. On the MSN note, it's hardly in Microsoft's interest to make it too easy to allow Mac users exploit their inbuilt webcams in MS software but it is a turn-off, no doubt, for someone familiar with the program and using the Mac platform at any stage.

Nearly every PC comes with Works (included in price) or a trial of Office at least. It's worth considering that the price of Works is roughly equivalent to the price of Apple's full office suite. But, then again, this won't cut it for power users.

art

papu wrote: »

the one for osx was the safari that was hacked within 2 minutes , and im sorry but you really cannot compare open office with office 07 , there in 2 completely different leagues.

I agree. One is in the "needlessly costs four billion pounds per licence" league the other other is in the "works extremely well and is free" league. It's an easy choice to make

ec18

papu wrote: »

the one for osx was the safari that was hacked within 2 minutes , and im sorry but you really cannot compare open office with office 07 , there in 2 completely different leagues.

you misunderstood what i meant.... i meant that the windows open office distro was about the same size as the mac one..... and at least apple have fixed the problems with safari IE is a lost cause.....all it's turned out to be lately is a firefox wannabe

papu

art wrote: »

I agree. One is in the "needlessly costs four billion pounds per licence" league the other other is in the "works extremely well and is free" league. It's an easy choice to make

ha why are you not down here in kilkenny because really you are a comedian!

office is four billion times better than open office will ever be , really open office is only for casual use as a free alternative it suffices.

ec18 wrote: »

you misunderstood what i meant.... i meant that the windows open office distro was about the same size as the mac one..... and at least apple have fixed the problems with safari IE is a lost cause.....all it's turned out to be lately is a firefox wannabe

windows 127 mb osx 157 mb , so its 1/4 bigger than the windows version. it all adds up :P

apple are one of THE WORST companies when it comes to fixing vulnerabilities!! its a fact.

AlmightyCushion

For people who say osx is more secure than windows that's not entirely true.

http://blogs.zdnet.com/security/?p=758

As you can see in that article there are a hell of a lot more vulnerabilities in osx than in windows. To keep a windows install free from viruses is usually just takes a few programs and some common sense. I can't remember the last time I got a virus (the last time I thought I had a virus, it turned out to be a corrupt codec). Both my mum's and my sister's laptop hasn't had a virus since they've had it. Neither has my parents desktop nor my other sister's desktop. They aren't any way near as computer literate as me and they've stayed virus free so that means pretty much anyone can do it.

Also apple laptops are made by asus, foxconn and quanto (I read that a while ago so not sure if it's accurate anymore). Asus have their own range of laptops and they also make laptops for sony, dell and probably other manufacturers. So apples having better build quality isn't entirely true either.

papu

does osx even come with an anti-virus software? vista comes with windows defender and windows firewall?

Mickelodian

papu wrote: »

cry some more?

8 gigs

but it really depends what you install with it
my mediacenter vista premium was about 11 gigs but my friends ultimate install was 15 ...its still not quite 20

also once you finish installing there are a few commands you can use to delete the shadow copys of the install if your so inclined.

it uses 50% of your ram at all times no matter how much ram you have , because of prefetching and all that jazz

UAc can be turned off with less than a dozen clicks , and you can switch to windows classic theme if new things frighten you....



no idea what your on about here , right click properties RUN IN COMPATABILITY MODE?!
well thats tough my family regularly make home movies and they all play fine on our vista mediacenter.;)



it was said earlier on in the thread because of some universal binary jobbie mac apps were for the most larger!

you can install other things than software on a computer right? games? theres a half a dozen or so macs can play and all other types of media.

Mac "technology" is a rip off where ever you are/

Mac apps simply aren't larger... obviously if I buy 10k worth of animation software it'd be pretty hefty in size... other than that... mac apps are smaller...

believe me or not... or just go to a site that has downloads for mac and pc and compare the file sizes..

50% of RAM!... this is an OPERATING SYSTEM... its job is to help me run programs... its not supposed to swallow 50% of my ram with no way of relinguising it.... God Microsoft love themselves... I bet they think I buy a PC for the enjoyment of using windows and not to get work done!

If that was 75% would you still be happy to post the figure..??

If I switch of all the protection and whatnot... which most vista users keep telling me...what is the point in having the protection in the first place... Also I'm 41 years of age... I've been using computer technology since my first computer in 1980... I have (count them) 14 programming languages, scripting languages and I can strip and rebuild a PC in about 30 minutes (with and electric screwdriver ) ... new things my frien... new things do anything but frighten me... but I still refuse to use new things that are total cr*p!

Compatability mode simple screws up my games... thats what I mostly do on my PC ... well that and obviously I work using a PC too...

Hmmm... you don't know about the HD identifier... okay.. start here and if your interested investigate... I'm using Linux, XP and MacOs... so I'm outta the loop on this....

AlmightyCushion

Mickelodian wrote: »

Mac apps simply aren't larger... obviously if I buy 10k worth of animation software it'd be pretty hefty in size... other than that... mac apps are smaller...

believe me or not... or just go to a site that has downloads for mac and pc and compare the file sizes..

50% of RAM!... this is an OPERATING SYSTEM... its job is to help me run programs... its not supposed to swallow 50% of my ram with no way of relinguising it.... God Microsoft love themselves... I bet they think I buy a PC for the enjoyment of using windows and not to get work done!

If that was 75% would you still be happy to post the figure..??

If I switch of all the protection and whatnot... which most vista users keep telling me...what is the point in having the protection in the first place... Also I'm 41 years of age... I've been using computer technology since my first computer in 1980... I have (count them) 14 programming languages, scripting languages and I can strip and rebuild a PC in about 30 minutes (with and electric screwdriver ) ... new things my frien... new things do anything but frighten me... but I still refuse to use new things that are total cr*p!

Compatability mode simple screws up my games... thats what I mostly do on my PC ... well that and obviously I work using a PC too...

Hmmm... you don't know about the HD identifier... okay.. start here and if your interested investigate... I'm using Linux, XP and MacOs... so I'm outta the loop on this....

I'm pretty sure you can turn off superfetch.

Mickelodian

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

I'm pretty sure you can turn off superfetch.

Finally some new information.... Although I've noticed that vista advice all revolves around switching stuff off... lol

art

papu wrote: »

ha why are you not down here in kilkenny because really you are a comedian!

office is four billion times better than open office will ever be , really open office is only for casual use as a free alternative it suffices.

apple are one of THE WORST companies when it comes to fixing vulnerabilities!! its a fact.

There may be rational arguments to be used against every competitor to Microsoft out there (which seems to be your stance) but you are not finding them. This is just nonsense stuff you are posting now, it's pointless to the thread.

Mickelodian

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

For people who say osx is more secure than windows that's not entirely true.

http://blogs.zdnet.com/security/?p=758

As you can see in that article there are a hell of a lot more vulnerabilities in osx than in windows. .

Yeah true... of course there is no market in virus anf firewal apps for the mac... and oddly and pretty confusing there seem to be fewer viruses and almost no spyware targeting the mac.... I wonder if there's a connection there...

If the mac is 'wide open' so to speak why doesn't norton or someone else move in to offer protection... Well protection for what? hmmm... I suppose they could 'engineer' a purpose... but thats just me getting all 'conspiracy theory'

AlmightyCushion

Mickelodian wrote: »

If the mac is 'wide open' so to speak why doesn't norton or someone else move in to offer protection... Well protection for what? hmmm... I suppose they could 'engineer' a purpose... but thats just me getting all 'conspiracy theory'

http://www.symantec.com/norton/products/overview.jsp?pcid=ma&pvid=nav11mac

Yes osx has less problems with spyware and viruses but just because no many are writing viruses for macs now doesn't mean this will always be the case. The point I was trying to make is that the software isn't as secure as most people think. It still has a lot of security holes. This is something every software company (and every one using their products) should be wary of regardless of how many people exploit those security holes.

Mickelodian

papu wrote: »

office is four billion times better than open office will ever be , really open office is only for casual use as a free alternative it suffices.


apple are one of THE WORST companies when it comes to fixing vulnerabilities!! its a fact.

Agree... dude your getting all excited about a software company... OpenOffice is okay... I use it... it's grand... If I'm gonna use it casually I'd say thats 99% of users out there...

What is it that you require Office for that involves spending a few hundred euro..that you cannot do on OpenOffice?? Or am I missing out on something big that I have yet to notice?


In the Apple thing... would all MAC users who have ad spyware, a virus or had their system hacked at any time in the last few YEARS pipe up.... I've had a mac 2 years now oe so...no viruses...no hacks, no spyware... I could be just lucky but my mac is attaced to my TV and remains on 24/7... so I'd say I'm real lucky... Mabe what you mean is APPle don't fix as many invunerabilities...?? They only fix them when there is a reason after all...

Tom Dunne

papu wrote: »

ha why are you not down here in kilkenny because really you are a comedian!

office is four billion times better than open office will ever be , really open office is only for casual use as a free alternative it suffices.

papu - first and final warning. Tone it down, debate rationally and lose the juvenile nonsense. If you start getting personal, you won't last long in this forum.

papu wrote: »

apple are one of THE WORST companies when it comes to fixing vulnerabilities!! its a fact.

If it is a fact, back it up with proof.

AlmightyCushion

Mickelodian wrote: »

Mabe what you mean is APPle don't fix as many invunerabilities...?? They only fix them when there is a reason after all...

If a website like amazon had a security flaw in it that meant a simple sql injection attack could get all the credit card details of all the customers who shopped with them. No one has bothered to do that yet. Would you still use the site? I'd be very surprised if you would. Vulnerabilities and security holes are very bad regardless of how few people are exploiting them. It just takes one person to fúck you over.