When is gambling considered a problem?

after.dark

Hi, I would like some advice please. I'll give you some background info.

A few years ago, when renting a house together, my boyfriend seemed to have a problem holding onto money, he would "loose it" or "overspend". The weeks he'd have his rent money, he would have nothing else which meant I would be paying for our food etc. I rang him one night when he didn't come home at 5am to hear the sound of a casino machine in the background when he accidently answered his phone in his pocket. (you know the ones where you pull the arm and try to match up the 3 wheels?) It turned out he was gambling his money and borrowing off me to finance it, he ended up owing me about 600, and I don't know how much he owed other people. 600 sounds like nothing much but when you're trying to support yourself in an apartment in dublin it's a fair bit of money. We worked through it and he paid me back and swore he wouldn't go into a casino again. I thought it had been sorted.

A few nights ago I was heading up to bed, but forgot something in the sitting room. When I walked in he quickly minimised the screen on the computer. But I noticed it was a gambling website. So I got suspicious and asked what was going on, he said he was doing the lotto online. We had a bit of a row, mainly over me questioning him about what he was doing. During the course of this row, I tried to explain why I was questioning him. I had been through it with him before and didn't want to go through it again. He acted like the gambling before was nothing! It really hurt me as it had been hard at the time to work through it with him. I asked him "are you gambling again" and he looked me straight in the eyes and said "I wouldn't lie to you, I'm not"

Yesterday, I was coming in from work with bags of shopping, pretty distracted and picked up the post on the way in the door. There was a letter for me and one for him. I accidently opened his one, it was his credit card statement. I opened it and noticed that it was not my balance, it was then i realised it was his statement. At this point I know I should have stopped reading, but I'm ashamed to say I didn't. Every single transaction was "pp online" the gambling website. Over the course of a month he had won 2,000, lost it again and built up 700 debt. There was 600 lost in one day! This from the man who said he wouldn't lie to me. The person I'm supposed to be marrying.

So I immediately rang him, and apologised for opening his statement and said we needed to talk about it. He came in and we did not argue, we spoke about it and what he said terrified me. Apparently he has a "suss" on it, he knows how to win, that over all he is up money, that he's gambling with free money etc, everything you hear from problem gamblers. At the moment he can afford to gamble, this is true, but the problem is he sees nothing wrong with it. It's his "hobby" and he can't promise me he'll stop.

I don't know what I'm more upset about, him lying to me or that fact he's gambling again despite the pain he caused me before. I don't trust him at all now, I feel like our whole relationship means nothing and was one big game. We're playing at owning a house, playing at planning our wedding etc.

Lately I knew something was wrong, he never answers his phone when I ring, but always rings back 2 mins later - perhaps giving himself time to get out of a bookies? He will say he'll be home at a certain time, then show up 2 or 3 hours later because he's "working late" or visiting a mate. I was even joking about him having an affair - but now I'm not sure. If he could lie to me about gambling, who's to say he's not having an affair too, I don't think he is, but every ounce of trust I had in him is shattered, I'm thinking of calling off our wedding. Perhaps I'm over reacting?

biko

It does sound like a problem. If he hides it from you then he is aware of that it's not ok and that it has gone beyond a few lines of lotto a week. He is probably embarrassed and thinking to himself "when I get my money back I'll stop" or "I'll treat us to travelling with my winnings".

This girl I know actually left her long time boyfriend because he would play the ponies for their rent money. He since then stopped and they are back together again.
It is a very real problem and must be addressed before you two can move on I think.

after.dark

He actually said he paid back his credit card with the money he won, when I asked if the credit card debt was buiult up through gambling in the first place he said no. He tried to turn it around like i was to blame. My bloody engagement ring came into it, he bought it then won the money back, the fact he brought me out for dinner a while ago, he's trying to make me feel guilty for his gambling.

biko

Other people here may disagree but I think you should A) build a case and set an ultimatum.
(A) means that you need real evidence, CC statements and such. This so that he can't explain things away.
(B) means that he will have to choose between you and gambling (like my friend did). He must understand how serious you are about this.

Once you have enough (A) the go to (B). Demand to have full insight into his monies for a full year before considering moving onto marriage.
When you're married it will be too late to pull out. If he can't/won't save himself he will drag you down with him.

Keano

He does have one problem, he gambles money he doesn't have i.e. on a credit card

The bookie always wins, yes he may be up a few quid now but that wont always be the case and the worst type of gamblers are those that constantly go chasing the elusive big win. They all promise to stop when that happens. It never happens hence there are so many bookmakers opening new premise's every week in this country.

muppetkiller

The fact that he needs to hide his Gambling is enough to say he has problems.
I myself have a bit of a gambling issue (mind you i'm in no debt anymore)..i'm fully aware of it and have changed my lifestyle to suit my new way of thinking (Like heading to the gym in the evenings so I don't get tempted to pop into the bookies on the way home, closed my accounts online and asked them to not allow new accounts to be opened with my cards. And the best one I think I did was only to bring 15 euro to work and not my wallet..it's too easy to access cash otherwise)
Just remember he can Gamble on his phone too...And ask him to see if he can go a month without a single bet. and ask him to show you his statements at the end of the month. If he refuses then say marriage is off...he'll know you're serious then.
GAMBLING CAN DESTROY A FAMILY and is just as bad as alcoholism and drugs if you ask me.

after.dark

Thanks guys, I've already asked to see his other CC statements - he was trying to convince me that that was the only statement he had gambled on. Bit of a coincidence that I happened to open that one! So I told him I have no reason to believe him, as he had already proved to me that he has no issue with lying to my face and I would like to see the other statements. I believe he got into debt in the first place through gambling. He refused to show me, said he feels violated by my asking about it and he's not harming me so it's really not my place to question him.

He's doing his best to turn it around and make his gambling my fault, make it look like it's to my benefit or make me feel like i'm making a big deal out of nothing. and I must admit at times he is making me question myself. Like he said - "if the balance was 20,000 you wouldn't complain" and I wouldn't so how can i justify being so upset over this. Or if he's not missing mortgage payments, do I have a right to question him?

I just got a text there while typing, saying he wont gamble again, except the lotto - thats all well and good but the issue is I don't believe him - he straight out lied and I have no reason to believe he wont do it again. Also the text ended with "thats pretty hard for me seeing as I'm on a winning streak" that does not sound like someone who is genuine to me.

He has killed any trust I had in him, and I don't know how to get it back, or even if I want to. Fool me once and all that. I feel like such a gobs***e.

AARRRGH

I used to work for a gambling company (soccer, horses, gaelic, etc.) I quickly learnt the idea of punters being in profit (like your boyfriend thinks he is) is utter horse****. Practically every account I saw was down money. Your boyfriend is deluding himself. Even the basic evidence like his lack of money proves he is not a "good" gambler.

You need to totally seperate your finances from his, so if you have any joint savings accounts or anything like that, remove your funds and put them in your name only.

Basically I think you need to self protect. Problem gamblers are ****ed so it's only a matter of time before he financially damages you, so make sure his problem cannot leave you in debt.

Regarding your relationship with him, I don't really know what you should do. With his current mentality I cannot see there being a happy ending...

muppetkiller

Simply tell him here's a bet that he should take up ...
you'll leave him if he continues - odds on
you'll stay with while he gambles - 100/1

helimachoptor

OP I dont gamble but your BF sounds like my uncle.

He used the bet on the horses everyday of the week. He had a decent job.

Every saturday he used to be in my grans house watching the racing with his dad (my granddad - who elso enjoyed a wager or 2) Some days he was on his knees using the remote control to hide his eyes from the TV and occasionally peering over it to see where his horse was. More than once he smashed the RC on the ground. Obviously he lost a lot more than he won and my gran and mam were worried about him as he was getting very stressed from it.

Fast forward to about 10 years ago. He put on an accumlator(I'm not up on gambling terminology) where be bet on about 6 or 7 races a couple of football matches etc. Anyway he ended up winning IR£17000 from paddy power(or whoever ran the sop in those days) He probably owed at least 5k (conservative estimate) on various loans that he had kept secret so he paid those off. Gave my grandparents money, gave me £200. Within about 6 months it was all gone. He ended up losing his job and had to move home at 40. Needless to say he got himself a couple of credit cards and proceeded to use this "free money " to get back on top. He's had about 3 or 4 breakdowns since and has spent a lot of time in hospital but when he comes out he still goes to the bookies.

He's an idiot. Your boyfriend is an idiot. If he's concealing it he has a problem.

Some of my friends would play the odd game of poker online or at a tournament. (I've no idea how to play poker!) but they dont hide the fact that they play. Sometimes they win sometimes they lose.


OP as was also said above it would be a good idea to divorce yourself financially from him if your finances are intertwined. And do it soon.

jhegarty

Get him to ask paddy power for a statement of all his transactions (i presume they would do this).... if he has lots loads (like we all presume he has) it may wake him up...

muppetkiller

You can get statements on Paddy power by simply logging into his account and go to the MY ACCOUNT section and select statements and put the last year in ...all transactions..probably easier to see the extent of the problem.

And helimachoptor I think it's a bit harsh to call him an Idiot..he has a problem like an alcoholic or drug user and needs help.

And remember he probably has multiple accounts with ladbrokes and bet 365 too.

after.dark

helimachoptor - thats awful about your uncle. Really does show how it can go down hill. I know my BF is an idiot, but as he said - if he's paying his bills etc what right do I have to question him. I can see his point - but does he want me to wait until it becomes a serious problem again!

The reason he is hiding it, is because he knew I'd freak out. He's right, I would have (and did) so I'm getting the blame on that too. I freaked out because it happened before, and it's history repeating itself. I adore him but I wont be anyones fool. How could he lie to me like that. There is no respect from him obviously if he thinks that little of me. I think I know what I'm going to do. I am so angry and hurt, I don't trust him any more and feel like he made a fool of me. I can't stay with someone I feel that way about.

Thanks for the advice.

board om

hey OP,

sorry to hear about your problem. there isnt much i can say that hasnt already been said. but what i will say is gamblers who 'think' they have a system are wrong. there is no such thing. and if he has convinved himself he is on top of it then he is far from realising he has a problem. getting him to look at his online statement over the last few eyars will prove that and as someone already said you can get that information easily enough. it would be wise to check what other online betting sites he uses as well. i know myself i am fond of betting (not excessively though) and i would have at least 4 or 5 different accounts with different sites, so you will have to find out exactly how many he has.

i think you should read the below thread. it was from a girl a few weeks ago who had a similiar problem. you might find it helpful. in fact something i noticed that was very similiar about both threads was the fact that her partner also tried to put the blame on her.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055287003


finally, dont get sucked into his way of thinking that "if he had €20k in his account you wouldnt be complaining" because that is BS. if he had €20k in his account from winnings then it probably cost him €50k to win it, and he will lose it just as quickly. gamblers never win. i think it was the owner of Baggot Racing i saw on TV once and he said the reason he decided to open a betting shop was because he spent so much time in other betting shops losing money, and watching other people lose money, that he finally reaslised that the only money to be made from betting was made by the bookies. so he started his own bookies and now he is minted. so it goes to show that there is only one winner when it comes to gambling, and it isnt the gambler.

good look and all the best

after.dark

Well, when I asked why he lied to me he used the dreaded "i thought what you don't know wont hurt you" I cannot marry this man. That settles it. What I don't know wont hurt me?? He could use the same excuse for ANYTHING if thats his way of thinking. He's not the person I thought he was.

Kernel32

after.dark wrote: »

I don't know what I'm more upset about, him lying to me or that fact he's gambling again despite the pain he caused me before. I don't trust him at all now, I feel like our whole relationship means nothing and was one big game. We're playing at owning a house, playing at planning our wedding etc.

This is the key to it all for me. Have you both discussed marriage? If so have you discussed marriage in regards to shared and open financial information? I am married 10 years this year and from day one we converted to shared bank account, bill's, credit cards etc. There was no such thing as my money and her money, it's our money. I know that not all couples take that approach but that's a discussion you need to have with him. Instead of asking to see his credit card statements etc you could approach it as part of building the relationship. Explain that he and you need to start to approach your finances in a way you would expect when married. This doesn't mean merge it all, but make it all open from both sides. If he can't bring himself to do that then you have a serious concern for the future.

Bricriu

Sorry to be so direct, but you're setting yourself up for a miserable life if you stay in this relationship as things are. Without your b/f giving up the gambling and going to Gamblers' Anonymous or/and therapy on a regular basis, his chances of changing his behaviour are extremely slim; this is an addiction, like drugs and alcohol. He'd need to be clean for a year or two before you should consider a longterm commitment.

Without help, the lies will increase and so will the spending. My sister is married to a gambler and alcoholic, and her life, and their children's, has been a long stressful, miserable hell.

Best of luck.

Bricriu

wylo

To be honest people may disagree with me but to me it doesnt seem that he has a full on gambling addiction problem as such, but he does have a far more serious problem and thats the fact that hes lying to you to please you and cant be honest. A friend of mine has a gambling problem , he borrows and borrows and loses and loses. He spends ALL day at it, he stays up all hours at night betting. Hes an addict and has lost about 25K(thats only what he told me , I really believe its more) in the last 2 years.
On the other hand it is ok to be losing if it insignificant amounts if it is a really really enjoyable pasttime.
It seems clear your boyfriend loves betting and it doesnt seem that he is constantly betting more than he can afford. Im not excusing him for lying one bit but Im saying you could say this to him as an ultimatum:

"You lied to me about your gambling, so I cant trust you, if you really really enjoy it and feel you are up money on a whole(this is possible with great patience and discipline btw but really really rare) then have a maximum betting limit for yourself, something small like 20 to 30euro a week(even less , depending on your earnings in at work). If you really have a system then prove it to me with small amounts not big amounts. If you can prove this by giving me your passwords to all the websites you gamble on so I can check statements then it is ok, if you cant then its over I cant trust you or be with someone that cant make a small sacrifice.

With an ultimatum like that you couldnt be fairer and if he has problems with that hes not worth.

after.dark

Wylo, I agree with you in that he is not spending more than he can pay back at the moment. But as I said, I have been through all of this before and this is how it started then too. I am not willing to go through it again.

Him lying to me is my main problem, but also him doing something he knew would upset me is a problem. I don't trust him, simple as that. He could have multiple accounts with any of these sites and I don't feel like I should have to get all his passwords to keep an eye on him I should be able to trust him. And I saw his credit card statement. Yes he won 2,000, then over the course of a week lost it again plus another 700. Besides, he wont give me any of his passwords. He has been very secretive lately. He feels violated over me asking about the betting apparently.

He's the type of person who will bring me out for dinner, or pick me up somewhere if i've had a drink, and then make sure I thank him a milion times for it. He thinks he fantastic for doing little things which I do all time for him. He even told his mother and 2 brothers that he pays for everything, while I was standing there. <- that by the way is a huge lie.

I think he said it because he knew I was getting suspicious and wanted something to fall back on with his family if it got out.

muppetkiller

wylo wrote: »

On the other hand it is ok to be losing if it insignificant amounts if it is a really really enjoyable pasttime.
It seems clear your boyfriend loves betting and it doesnt seem that he is constantly betting more than he can afford.

Nobody loves betting ..they love Winning. It's the feeling of winning that he's looking for..that's the addiction. if he's up all night online too he's not spending quality time with his wife to be...

MrPillowTalk

First off maybe your bf is a problem gambler, then again maybe hes not but enjoys gambling and feels he cant talk to you about it, which is fairly reasonable considering this thread, looking at his internet use and his credit card statements.

If he tells you he wins more than he loses he is nearly definately lying however that doesnt mean its a problem it could just mean he doesnt want the spanish inquisition on his spending. Some people like to gamble thats just the way it is, my girlfreind wouldnt dare issue me an ultimatum on my gambling because you can be sure I wont be getting told by anyone else how to spend my money. He spent 600 in a day, that really isnt huge money if your like my gf you probably have a couple of shopping trips a year where you spend similar money in a day would you think this is a problem?

Again I dont know if your bf has a problem or not but I wouldnt just assume he does. A chunk of my income has come from gambling in the past, on occasion Ive lost and won large sums in less than a day still doesnt make me a problem gambler despite the inevitable littany of posters who will no doubt tell you Im a degenerate its all relative to your personal situation. So long as hes not gambling every day and spending all his dough on it then its really his business.

MrPillowTalk

muppetkiller wrote: »

Nobody loves betting ..they love Winning. It's the feeling of winning that he's looking for..that's the addiction. if he's up all night online too he's not spending quality time with his wife to be...

This is completely false tbh.

wylo

after.dark wrote: »

He feels violated over me asking about the betting apparently.

Well if there is talk of marriage you are clearly in a serious relationship, and him "feeling violated" about something like that is absolutely ridiculous in those circumstances.
If hes hiding and lying about things like that at this stage god knows what could happen in a few years.

wylo

muppetkiller wrote: »

Nobody loves betting ..they love Winning. It's the feeling of winning that he's looking for..that's the addiction. if he's up all night online too he's not spending quality time with his wife to be...

to me thats a technicallity, like drug addicts dont love taking drugs but they love the feeling off them when they are high,
but yes i agree if hes sacrificing alot of his time for this, it is definetely becoming a problem,if not hes probably not addicted(to answer the OPs subject title question)

after.dark

muppetkiller wrote: »

. if he's up all night online too he's not spending quality time with his wife to be...

This is a huge problem in our relationship - i'd say 5 nights a week I am in bed and asleep before him, I usually go at about 11.30 or after so it's not like I got at 9pm or anything.

MrPillowTalk wrote: »

First off maybe your bf is a problem gambler, then again maybe hes not but enjoys gambling and feels he cant talk to you about it, which is fairly reasonable considering this thread, looking at his internet use and his credit card statements.

Mr Pillowtalk, I understand where you are coming from, but gambling has been an issue before in our relationship before. Where he did not have rent, or money for food, consistently borrowed money from me and then "lost it" or "lent it to his brother". If you had a relationship with someone who had a drink problem, got over it and then said they were just going to have a couple of drinks every day, would you not worry about it esclating to where it was before? Also I did not say I was checking his internet usage?? Where did you get that idea? As for checking his cc statement, I should not have done it, but you can bet your bottom dollar (no pun intended) that I will do it again now. If I stay with him that is. Last time I was in debt because I was lending to him, this time we own a house together, if he looses everything, so do I. I have to check if I can't trust him.

MrPillowTalk wrote: »

Some people like to gamble thats just the way it is, my girlfreind wouldnt dare issue me an ultimatum on my gambling because you can be sure I wont be getting told by anyone else how to spend my money. He spent 600 in a day, that really isnt huge money if your like my gf you probably have a couple of shopping trips a year where you spend similar money in a day would you think this is a problem?

If I was to spend 600 on myself in a day, and I honestly can't remember a time I did, it would be planned expenditure and it would be spent on something, gambling is not spending. Yes some people like to gamble, how many people gamble 2700 over 2 days? how many people say they are gambling to pay back their debts, but wont tell you where the debt came from in the first place? How many people let gambling take over their life to the extent their fiance wonders if they are having an affair because they are never home, never in bed at the same time, never answers the phone, lies about where they are, shows up hours late with no explaination? If you were treating your girlfriend like that she wouldn't issue an ultimatium?

MrPillowTalk wrote: »

So long as hes not gambling every day and spending all his dough on it then its really his business.

He is gambling every day - last month a min of €100 a day, a max of €600 in a day. If he looses everything, I loose everything.

Thanks for your post, you made the exact same excuses he did, seeing it in black and white has confirmed for me that I would be a fool to just let it go again. Ever hear of denial?

MrPillowTalk

after.dark wrote: »

Thanks for your post, you made the exact same excuses he did, seeing it in black and white has confirmed for me that I would be a fool to just let it go again. Ever hear of denial?

Like I said in the post, twice, maybe he is a problem gambler just dont assume he is based on him not telling you, tbh I can understand him not telling you from your reaction you both probably need to communicate better my missus knows exactly what I get up to when Im gambling wins/losses the whole thing but if I thought Id get a heap of aggro off her I wouldnt tell her anything, I just think this might be more misscommunication than "omg he remortgaged the house and the sheriff is outside with paddy power looking for the diamond off my engagement ring"

Personally I think its worong to call the guy a problem gambler untill you have way more information but to each their own I suppose. None of the stuff in my post was an excuse either by the way I simple explained that perhaps this is how he enjoyed spending his money. If you have a major problem with how he spends his money then sure go ahead and dont let it go, but if I were him I would be completely furious at my gf remotely feeling she has any right to tell me how I should be spending my money.

If it gets to a stage where he is looking to borrow your cash or cant pay his mortgage etc then fair enough be concerned but as things stand now your completely overreacting, but go ahead take everyones advice and lay down the law to him, if he has any sense he might get an insight to what married life with you will be like.

Morgans

The questions the potential problem gamblers need to ask themselves are:

1. Does gambling prevent you from attending work or college?
2. Do you gamble to pass time or to escape boredom?
3. Do you gamble alone for long periods of time?
4. Have others ever criticised you for your gambling?
5. Have you lost interest in family, friends or hobbies due to gambling?
6. Have you ever lied to cover up the amount of money or time you spend gambling?
7. Have you lied, stolen or borrowed in order to maintain betting habits?
8. Are you reluctant to spend ‘gambling money’ on anything else?
9. Do you gamble until you lose all your money?
10. After losing, do you feel that you have to try and win back the losses as soon as possible?
11. If you run out of money when gambling, do you feel lost and in despair and feel the need to gamble again as soon as possible?
12. Do arguments, frustrations or disappointments make you want to gamble?
13. Does gambling make you depressed or even suicidal?

The more you answer yes to, the more of a potential problem you have.

The golden rule of gambling is to only bet with money you can afford to lose. There is no harm is spending your disposable income on it, less damage than alcohol or drugs or any other vices. However, if it progresses beyond that, it becomes a problem, and can escalate quickly - quicker than alcohol or drugs arguably. From what i can make out, he is gambling on games rather than sports (especially if doing it online at night). This is more dangerous as there really is no break - at least if you are having a bad run with the horses, you can get a break before the next day. Debts can be quickly run up on line. I would make sure that your money isnt being used to gamble, but gambling isnt something that he deserves to be stigmatised for just yet. He may have it under control. I'd be more concerned that he lied to you about it. If he can share his good days and his bad days with you, and remains in control of his gambling, there shouldnt be a problem. ***As long as he is only gambling wiht money he can afford to lose**** I wouldnt worry about finding out what he did in the past six months. If he feels fine now and things are balanced (doesnt have any huge debts etc) things havent progressed to a really bad state. It is something to keep an eye on. The biggest mistake he can make is assuming that he will win any losses back. Chasing losses is where the gambling quickly becomes a serious problem.

after.dark

MrPillowTalk wrote: »

"omg he remortgaged the house and the sheriff is outside with paddy power looking for the diamond off my engagement ring"
.

ah yes, the ring which he informed he bought me after a particurlarly good win. This was his way of justifying lying to me.

MrPillowTalk wrote: »

If you have a major problem with how he spends his money then sure go ahead and dont let it go, but if I were him I would be completely furious at my gf remotely feeling she has any right to tell me how I should be spending my money.

Fiancee, person he owns a house with, person he is financially tied to, person who is scraping every last oenny into savings to go towards a wedding. If I went out and spent 600 you can be sure he'd pull me up on it, and rightly so.

MrPillowTalk wrote: »

If it gets to a stage where he is looking to borrow your cash or cant pay his mortgage etc then fair enough be concerned but as things stand now your completely overreacting, .

If gambling had not been a problem before, I would agree with you. But it has been, it had gotten to the stage where he was borrowing off me, it had gotten to the stage where I had to get the bus to work because I could not fill up my car because I had lent money to him. I was stupid for doing it, I know, but I did. It was at that stage, and we managed to stop it. Stopping it was very very difficult too. It wasn't a case of him agreeing to stop and that was it.

MrPillowtalk, in my last post I asked a question about how much a girlfriend should accept. Please read it and tell me, do you think this is a fair way to be? Should I accept being treated like that?

MrPillowTalk

No you probably shouldnt accept him not spending any time for you, being late, not answering his phone etc but you dont know that him doing any of that is related to his gambling. You just assumed that his absence is down to him being off gambling 24/7 maybe it is and if so then yes you probably have a problem, but again he could well be hiding his whereabouts from you because he is worried about your reaction or alternatively he could be working late, visiting a freind or whatever you dont really know and have just assumed which is too tenuous imo.

You need to be able to trust each other and be open, but similarly you cant expect to tell each other everything everyone has their own portion of their life thats private.

As for being financially tied to him, well thats fine and good and if he cant make the mortgage payments etc then you can rightly be annoyed but untill then I still dont see how its any of your business what he spends his money on. As regards it being a problem in the past its not like he borrowed a huge ammount of money off you and its not like he never paid it back so calling it a problem is a tad extreme to be fair, 600 quid isnt a whole lot of money.

I think you have made an awful lot of assumptions that loosely fit the facts youve found but could be interpreted lots of different ways and youve chosen to think the worst. Id be more worried about the fact that he doesnt feel he can talk to you about this than the actual gambling at the moment.

Pub07

MrPillowTalk this guy is throwing his and his fiances money away. I know you are/were a pro poker player but that's an entirely different kettle of fish where there are decent % of people winning. I used to be a pro myself for a few years and made a serious amount of money that I'm still living off 2 years later lol, have to stop being so lazy and hit it again.

When someone loses control on sports betting it's a tragedy and it looks like this guy could be headed this way. I would agree with you that the op could be seen to be overreacting to the current situation but with her bf's past history it has the potential to develop into a very serious problem.

I know lots of guys who absolutely love sports betting, the difference seems to be how much control they have over their bet sizing. The majority of them will punt away with bets of €10 or €20, maybe splashing out now and again and laying €50 to €100. Betting is a huge part of their lives but losing, say, €600 in one go would be unthinkable to them.

Then there are the guys I know who cant exercise proper control over their betting. One guy I know who lost 25K in less than 2 months last year and lost another 14K in the last few months -I know another one that took out a 10K loan to have a go at it professionally, applying proper bankroll management and discipline, he lost it all too and he was actually giving himself a chance by taking it extremely seriously unlike your average Joe Punter. These are guys with normal jobs, they're not made of money or anything. I actually find it hard to understand the pure and utter stupidy of people who bet big, relative to their bankroll/bank balance, on sports - no-one (practically, Id say less than 1% in this country anyway) wins long-term on sports betting so why throw away your money like this.

If the op's fiance was in a situation before where he was lying about his betting, he owed her €600 and unknown amounts to other people and wasn't able to pay for food or rent some weeks, I would say he is a good candidate for the type of guy who could blow a serious amount down the line. The old "you wouldnt be complaining if I won €20,000" excuse is total crap, for god sake, long term he will 100% lose that money back. The guy I mentioned above won 2 big accumulators over the last few years, one for 8K and the other for a smaller sum, cant remember how much, and he is still down a fortune.

OP tell your boyfriend to stop being a complete retard and bet what he can afford to bet or give it up, if he thinks he has a 'system' he is obviously an idiot when it comes to betting on online gambling sites and sports betting.

manufan

Making money via Gambling is certainly achievable. Why do i say this. Because i make a nice second income via betting and if you treat it like a buisness it will pay you like a business. I might get slated for saying it but there are a few of us who can make it pay.

Unfortunately, and take it from someone who knows betting inside/out, your boyfriend is heading for serious trouble and hes going to eventually drag you down with him. The reason is because he thinks that he is going to make more money than he loses by betting with the likes of Paddy Power. This in itself tells me that he doesn't have a proper grasp of probability and has obviously never factored in the bookies overround when he places a bet.

Some of the brightest people on the planet work for bookies. They are usually known as actuaries and they set the odds and use number crunching software programs to work out the odds in such a way that they always have the edge but it is such a small edge that the average punter loses money very slowly over a long period although with big stakes the losses will be heavy long term.

I don't bet with bookies. I trade on Betfair and i know how to minimise losses when in a negative position through years of practise. Your boyfriend hasn't a clue what hes doing and is living in la la land if he thinks he is going to make any sort of money longterm betting with Power Power and the Likes.

Also, Gambling is addictive. I'm addicted to trading on Betfair. I do it nearly every day and when i'm not doing it i'm thinking about it but at least i can justify it to anybody who has a go at me. Your boyfriend is probably addicted to gambling and unfortunately he isn't going to stop unles you give him an ultimatum. Please don't pussyfoot around him. Tell him you want to see all his credit card statementts in 1 months time and if hes still betting get as far away from him as possible.

When you are married it will be more difficult to get away especially if you have kids and you need to be 100% sure you can trust him before you get married. Yeah, if he was showing a 20,000 grand profit then you would say nothing but he isn't and less than 1% of gamblers make any money and he is most definately always going to be in the other 99% that lose.

Some people might think i am being a tad harsh but the reality is that your boyfriend is not smart enough to make money and on top of this he is addicted to gambling and is lying through his teeth and trying to justify it. He would be better off putting his time into something more productive especially if he wants to save your relationship. He needs to wake up.

manufan

Oh, i nearly forgot. Bookies close winning accounts. If your fella was able to make money consistently, even only small amounts, the bookies will limit stakes to pennies or close his account and he would not be able to get any decent bet on with any online bookmakers. They will happily accommodate him as long as they are taking his/your money.

Maybe he is waiting for the big accumulator win to come in where he wins 30,000 grand for a 50 quid bet so he can justify his gambling. Unbeknown to most punters, the bookies build a bigger overround into multiple bets making it even less likely that you can win from them with this type of bet as opposed to a single bet.

AARRRGH

manufan wrote: »

Oh, i nearly forgot. Bookies close winning accounts.

This is true. The bookies I worked for closed all winning accounts.

OP: I can guarantee, based on what you've told us already, that your boyfriend is not in profit.

LoanShark

HI,
You need get serious with your man... Tell him that it the betting or you..Simple as that.
I've a friend who had Paddy Power on Speed Dial every game or race that would appear on TV that looked any way good he was making his call.,, We rekoned he owed about 5k as a result.. he would deny any form of loss and only talk about his wins..
He Got engaged and the Fiancee told him straight It was Her or The Gambling..

They are married nearly a year now..

after.dark

Well we had it out last night. We came to an agreement that he uses only €50 a week for online gambling but otherwise does not set foot in a bookies. If he does not show at least breaking even at the end of 2 months then he stops. He seems happy enough with this. I'm ok with it so long as I know it's controlled. Now all I have to do is figure out whether to trust him or not.

LegacyUser

after.dark wrote: »

Well we had it out last night. We came to an agreement that he uses only €50 a week for online gambling but otherwise does not set foot in a bookies. If he does not show at least breaking even at the end of 2 months then he stops. He seems happy enough with this. I'm ok with it so long as I know it's controlled. Now all I have to do is figure out whether to trust him or not.

Good Morning All,

Firstly, I have to be honest in saying that I like boards but I am not a fan of this particular forum in any way shape or form. The reason for me in saying this is that many of the topics are extremely sensetive and that the majority of the advice is coming from unexperienced and unqualified people. I am sure that the charter covers this and that it's just peoples opinions that are posted, however, I just think in certain scenarios people are given bad advice.

OP, as a background first of all, I have been attending GA for a number of years as well as other treatments and have been clean from gambling for 1 year now. I almost lost everything, I mean everything, home, family, you name. I'm still in a huge amount of debt to the tune of €200,000, luckily, I'm in a position that I have an extremely high income and can pay this off in time with not too much trouble. BUT, and it's a big but, the monetary value makes no difference whatsoever. It doesn't matter if you're gambling with 5 euro, 50 euro or 5000 euro and that's what people, especially non-gamblers, need to grasp.

I know, that your boyfriend, is now only over the moon to be given a chance at gambling, with you knowing about it. It's like a dog and bone, whatever that saying is.
You're giving someone anumition to a serious problem.

Would you give an alcholic 1 bottle of heineken a day for two months ? The answer is no.

You are leading yourself into a potential life of misery and the only way to treat this addiction is by going to GA, hypnosis, there are many different forms of treatment.

And, be aware, it's not something you can get rid of overnight, or in a few weeks. This is a life-long illness (and that's how you must think of it, it's an illness) and needs to be tamed all the time as it can crop up anytime, anywhere.

Let me ask you this, what happens if your boyfriend goes on a nice run, and after the two months he's up 10k ? Are you going to say, great, this is working, carry on ?

Your restriction of him not going into a bookies is of no use whatsoever is it ? After all, you gave him the go ahead to gamble online ?
And don't think that you can monitor this either by his username or credit card. He'll find a way to create another username, to make a deposit on another card, or cash over the counter into his account so you can't track it.

My advice, seek treatment, or it's a long long road ahead of you.

For what it's worth, people that are thinking he's a **** and doesn't care, as I've read on many other posts regarding the same problem.............. people suffering from gambling addiction are normal people, they are not ****s or selfish people .. life deals people many different cards and this is just one of those hands that needs a little help..

Morgans

Good post from qualified.

However, i would say that his advice is good from something who established they had a gambling problem. The vast majority of punters haven't got a gambling problem - just like the vast majority of drinkers are not alcoholics.

People can gamble responsibly, and I would disagree regarding the monetary value. €600 is a lot different from €200,000.

Gambling addicts may progress from low level stakes upwards, and the feeling of winning and losing might not change, but if you can gamble using disposable income, there is no harm.

I do think the limits on the gambling that the OP has mentioned in the last post will not be effective. To me, you need to find out what your boyfriend is trying to achieve via gambling. And make him realise that its stupid to think that he will achieve those aims via Paddy Power.

LegacyUser

Morgans wrote: »

People can gamble responsibly, and I would disagree regarding the monetary value. €600 is a lot different from €200,000.

Hi Morgans,

I know what you mean...
the point I'm trying to put across though is that any monetary value, outside your means, is a problem.

And the important thing to note is, if he is winning, and for arguments sake is up 5k, and he putting a bet on of 1k, that 1k shouldn't be thought of us, oh, it's ok, I'm 5 grand up, cause at some stage, that 5k won't be there, and that 1k bet will be eating up his or hers disposable income.

600 is not different to 200k for some people.
If you're earning 35k a year or earning 6 million a year......I think you know what I'm trying to get at.

Granted, OPs boyfriend may not be in a bad position, but the signs are there, and giving him the go-ahead to continue gambling is very very irresponsible in my opinion (sorry OP, but I'd hate to see people what I went through, if it can be avoided).

after.dark

Qualified, I appreciate you taking the time to post. You obviously know what you are talking about, I am a novice at dealing with a gambling problem and I thought what I did was for the best, so while it was probably misguided, I wasn't being irresponsible.

My way of thinking is this, he sees no problem with his gambling what so ever, I think deep down he does and he can see where I am getting my concerns but he is "gambling responsibly" apparently. So in that frame of mind, for me to say "stop totally" will only make him resent me. He gets bored one day and thinks "f**k her, she has no idea what she's on about" and he's off again gambling and hiding it. Where as if we come to a fair agreement I think he will be a lot less likely to do that.

You're right about the 200,000/600 comment, while he wont struggle to pay that back, it's the fact he lost over 2,000 in a day which worries me. He was lucky he was in credit when he lost it, I'd imagine if he had a zero balance he would have still allowed himself to loose that 2,000.

I thought we had gone through it all and had an arrangement. He had given me his password for PP, I just tried to log on - wrong details. For now I will put it down to me taking it down wrong, a misunderstanding, until I speak to him tonight.

LegacyUser

after.dark wrote: »

He feels violated over me asking about the betting apparently.

my ex-partner had an affair with his ex-wife while we were living together. Us two women found out about it when she rang the flat and I answered the phone. She said"what are you doing there?" He'd told her we'd split up and I'd moved out.

When I confronted him about it, he said we shouldn't have been talking behind his back!

LegacyUser

after.dark wrote: »

Qualified, I appreciate you taking the time to post. You obviously know what you are talking about, I am a novice at dealing with a gambling problem and I thought what I did was for the best, so while it was probably misguided, I wasn't being irresponsible.

Apologies, I didn't mean to sound harsh or abrupt or anything. But I'm just trying to get across the fact that there is a right and there is a wrong, and unfortunately we're in the latter bracket here.

after.dark wrote: »

My way of thinking is this, he sees no problem with his gambling what so ever, I think deep down he does and he can see where I am getting my concerns but he is "gambling responsibly" apparently.

Gamblers on the skin, the vast majority of the time, do seem and act like there is no problem whatsoever and deep down they know something is not right.
Is there such a thing called "gambling responsibly". Sure there is , you go to the dogs one evening with a group of friends, or go to the races at christmas etc.

Is gambling responsibly to have so many PPP transactions online (and remember, it's totally pointless here talking whether he's up or down, winning or losing etc) , to be so infused into the whole thing, to step out of the bookies to accept a phone call. If it was acting responsibly and having the odd flutter, why not just amswer the phone in the bookies.

after.dark wrote: »

So in that frame of mind, for me to say "stop totally" will only make him resent me. He gets bored one day and thinks "f**k her, she has no idea what she's on about" and he's off again gambling and hiding it. Where as if we come to a fair agreement I think he will be a lot less likely to do that.

You're right about the 200,000/600 comment, while he wont struggle to pay that back, it's the fact he lost over 2,000 in a day which worries me. He was lucky he was in credit when he lost it, I'd imagine if he had a zero balance he would have still allowed himself to loose that 2,000.

I thought we had gone through it all and had an arrangement. He had given me his password for PP, I just tried to log on - wrong details. For now I will put it down to me taking it down wrong, a misunderstanding, until I speak to him tonight.

In terms of resenting you and going off and doing it anyway, well..this is going to be harsh, but it's there's going to come a point, and maybe that point is there already, I don't know, but he's not going to give a damn what you think or he's not going to give a damn how you feel.
Do you think he'll just not walk into bookies because it might hurt you ? Trust me on this one, without help and treatment, the answer categorically is NO. Again, this depends on the severity of the problem, but the more he continues to gamble the more likely it is to become this way. As far as the online details he gave you, true, it may be just a fluke they are incorrect, but it sounds all too familiar to be honest.

I'm sorry if It comes accross that I'm getting at you, I'm trying to get more at the situation rather than putting you down, if that makes sense.

craichoe

after.dark wrote: »

Qualified, I appreciate you taking the time to post. You obviously know what you are talking about, I am a novice at dealing with a gambling problem and I thought what I did was for the best, so while it was probably misguided, I wasn't being irresponsible.

My way of thinking is this, he sees no problem with his gambling what so ever, I think deep down he does and he can see where I am getting my concerns but he is "gambling responsibly" apparently. So in that frame of mind, for me to say "stop totally" will only make him resent me. He gets bored one day and thinks "f**k her, she has no idea what she's on about" and he's off again gambling and hiding it. Where as if we come to a fair agreement I think he will be a lot less likely to do that.

You're right about the 200,000/600 comment, while he wont struggle to pay that back, it's the fact he lost over 2,000 in a day which worries me. He was lucky he was in credit when he lost it, I'd imagine if he had a zero balance he would have still allowed himself to loose that 2,000.

I thought we had gone through it all and had an arrangement. He had given me his password for PP, I just tried to log on - wrong details. For now I will put it down to me taking it down wrong, a misunderstanding, until I speak to him tonight.

He'll keep on going past his "allowance" .. in a gamblers mind if he "just wins this one" then it won't matter because he'll be in the positive figures.

The "Just one more" problem is indicative of an addiction, going cold turkey with gambling is the ONLY way

after.dark

Qualified & craichoe, you are right, I can see why the €50 might not work. But otherwise I will have to believe him that he has closed the account. And I don't trust him.

Can you tell me what you think I should do? He does not think he has a problem so gam anon is not an option. He has read the gamcare website and this makes him think he can do it and stop when he wants. He has said he will stop and close the pp account but how do i believe him, unless I have access to it? How do I know he has not got other online accounts - he says he doesn't, but what he says means nothing at the moment. It's the secrecy and lack of trust thats bothering me. I never thought he could be such a liar. I'm disgusted to be honest. Despite our chat, I'm not sure if our relationship will recover. I find it hard to trust anyway, and have spent the past 5 years working on it. For him to abuse it.

Morgans

I understand what you mean.

I would go so far as to say that the worst thing an addictive personality can do is win at gambling. If your boyfriend wins 5K next month gambling, he is in a more dangerous position than if he never bet at all. You should forget about luck. When he loses the 5K, the feeling of being 5K in profit will be with him, and he will try to recreate it. I'm pretty sure that is the same process for a person losing 600 or 200000. I think that is what qualified is driving at.

OP, I guarantee you this. He will ignore any limits you put on him. And he will resent you if you catch him ignore the limits. If you allow him to gamble, that's fine. If he is gambling outside of his means, he has already lost. He will not win. Your relationship might be good enough in any case, and as has been said, gambling isnt such an awful thing. You have to ask him what he expects to achieve by gambling - is it fun? If it is he should be able to do it within his means. Does he think it will make him richer? Some people can win, more win temporarily, but those who cant control their gambling to be within their means, will never win.

Morgans

after.dark wrote: »

Qualified & craichoe, you are right, I can see why the €50 might not work. But otherwise I will have to believe him that he has closed the account. And I don't trust him.

Can you tell me what you think I should do? He does not think he has a problem so gam anon is not an option. He has read the gamcare website and this makes him think he can do it and stop when he wants. He has said he will stop and close the pp account but how do i believe him, unless I have access to it? How do I know he has not got other online accounts - he says he doesn't, but what he says means nothing at the moment. It's the secrecy and lack of trust thats bothering me. I never thought he could be such a liar. I'm disgusted to be honest. Despite our chat, I'm not sure if our relationship will recover. I find it hard to trust anyway, and have spent the past 5 years working on it. For him to abuse it.

For you to control what he does and him to remain gambling.

You close down all accounts that he has - most sites have a responsible gambling section which bars the user from logging in for 6 months, 1 year, 2 years etc. Use this option.

You use your credit card to set up new account. (ask him to choose whichever bookie he wants to use online)

He reimburses you in cash for the amount you put in using your credit card
You do not allow him a credit card/laser card (this is the hard bit - you can hold his debit card/credit cards, and if he wants anything he comes to you)

He can gamble using that money you have deposited, but must come to you if he wants to deposit more.

Any winnings are withdrawn to your credit card and you give him the winnings.

Its not easy, but then you will control his gambling.

LegacyUser

after.dark wrote: »

Qualified & craichoe, you are right, I can see why the €50 might not work. But otherwise I will have to believe him that he has closed the account. And I don't trust him.

Can you tell me what you think I should do? He does not think he has a problem so gam anon is not an option. He has read the gamcare website and this makes him think he can do it and stop when he wants. He has said he will stop and close the pp account but how do i believe him, unless I have access to it? How do I know he has not got other online accounts - he says he doesn't, but what he says means nothing at the moment. It's the secrecy and lack of trust thats bothering me. I never thought he could be such a liar. I'm disgusted to be honest. Despite our chat, I'm not sure if our relationship will recover. I find it hard to trust anyway, and have spent the past 5 years working on it. For him to abuse it.

First off, gamblers (addicted) are also liars, they'll tell you anything..the amount of excuses I've heard, I've said, is incredible, like you said, incorrect password, I didn't get paid on time, I gave someone a loan, that's why I've no money, I lost my wallet, the list continues ...

So what should you do...
If you love him, which by the sounds of things, you do..
then don't think of this as "he's lied to me, I can't trust him"
think of it as "he's got an illness, and I need to help him"
Now I know, that's a hell of alot easier said than done, but .. in saying that .. if you love him..then you can overcome this, and believe it or not, it can make a relationship so much stronger in the long run.

My advice, for you is ...
1) him disagreeing of going to GA is just out of the question, HE HAS TO GO and you need to be firm with this, either he does it, or it finishes. By the way, many times gamblers will break up with there partners just to get away from it all, and not have to answer to anyone, just they can gamble. They will take out their frustration on ones nearest to them as well and you'll take the blunt of it. It's not a case of going to one GA meeting either, it doesn't work like that. And you physically have to see him go into the GA meeting to make sure he goes. No point in him saying, yes, I went, it was great. You have to drive him there and wait till he comes out of the meeting. This has to be done 3 times a week for at least a few months, then he can go twice a week. I know people going to GA for 20 years now, the older ones still go, maybe once a week or once every two weeks..they go 1) to offer advice and support to other people and 2) to remember how bad things were, and to get that reality check......as I said, it's incredibly easy to get back into the trap..

2) take control of the finances. you should have a joint bank account where both of your wages go into and you can see exactly what's taken in and out .. and give him his pocket money, enough for lunches, or going out for a drink etc. Don't let him have cash on him...

3) educate yourself about gambling, you'll find it extremely helpful...

I know you think this sounds like over kill ... but it's the remedy..

But remember please, don't treat him like a lying person, it's the gambling that's made him lie, and it's that gambling that's the illness..
gamblers aren't bad people :-) they just need a little help

after.dark

There is no way he will go. He is convinced he has not got a problem. Because he says there is no problem he wont hand over control of his money to me. I suppos if he genuinely thinks he has no problem then I can understand why he would not want to give me that.

It turns out I did have the correct password, it was his user name I had ntered wrong. But when I logged in the account had been suspended.

I'm tired of thinking about this.

LegacyUser

after.dark wrote: »

There is no way he will go. He is convinced he has not got a problem. Because he says there is no problem he wont hand over control of his money to me. I suppos if he genuinely thinks he has no problem then I can understand why he would not want to give me that.

It turns out I did have the correct password, it was his user name I had ntered wrong. But when I logged in the account had been suspended.

I'm tired of thinking about this.

So if there is no problem, then why not have a joint bank account, what's there to hide,
By your tone, it sounds to me like your on route to giving up slightly no ?

Sorry if I sound negative, it's just that all the signs are there for things to get worst rather than better..

after.dark

Ok PP account is definately gone, he swears he has no other and will give me his bank and cc statements to prove it if I want to see them. He has said he will give up totally. He will not go to gam anon now as he does not feel he has a problem but if he feels the urge to do it he will accept that he does. If he starts gambling again he said he will hand over every penny of his earnings to me and go to gam anon. This might be his way of shutting me up, but its the most progress we have made so far. Qualified, I appreciate your input. Stop apologising.

Thanks everyone for your help. x

nikjess

after.dark wrote: »

Hi, I would like some advice please. I'll give you some background info.

A few years ago, when renting a house together, my boyfriend seemed to have a problem holding onto money, he would "loose it" or "overspend". The weeks he'd have his rent money, he would have nothing else which meant I would be paying for our food etc. I rang him one night when he didn't come home at 5am to hear the sound of a casino machine in the background when he accidently answered his phone in his pocket. (you know the ones where you pull the arm and try to match up the 3 wheels?) It turned out he was gambling his money and borrowing off me to finance it, he ended up owing me about 600, and I don't know how much he owed other people. 600 sounds like nothing much but when you're trying to support yourself in an apartment in dublin it's a fair bit of money. We worked through it and he paid me back and swore he wouldn't go into a casino again. I thought it had been sorted.

A few nights ago I was heading up to bed, but forgot something in the sitting room. When I walked in he quickly minimised the screen on the computer. But I noticed it was a gambling website. So I got suspicious and asked what was going on, he said he was doing the lotto online. We had a bit of a row, mainly over me questioning him about what he was doing. During the course of this row, I tried to explain why I was questioning him. I had been through it with him before and didn't want to go through it again. He acted like the gambling before was nothing! It really hurt me as it had been hard at the time to work through it with him. I asked him "are you gambling again" and he looked me straight in the eyes and said "I wouldn't lie to you, I'm not"

Yesterday, I was coming in from work with bags of shopping, pretty distracted and picked up the post on the way in the door. There was a letter for me and one for him. I accidently opened his one, it was his credit card statement. I opened it and noticed that it was not my balance, it was then i realised it was his statement. At this point I know I should have stopped reading, but I'm ashamed to say I didn't. Every single transaction was "pp online" the gambling website. Over the course of a month he had won 2,000, lost it again and built up 700 debt. There was 600 lost in one day! This from the man who said he wouldn't lie to me. The person I'm supposed to be marrying.

So I immediately rang him, and apologised for opening his statement and said we needed to talk about it. He came in and we did not argue, we spoke about it and what he said terrified me. Apparently he has a "suss" on it, he knows how to win, that over all he is up money, that he's gambling with free money etc, everything you hear from problem gamblers. At the moment he can afford to gamble, this is true, but the problem is he sees nothing wrong with it. It's his "hobby" and he can't promise me he'll stop.

I don't know what I'm more upset about, him lying to me or that fact he's gambling again despite the pain he caused me before. I don't trust him at all now, I feel like our whole relationship means nothing and was one big game. We're playing at owning a house, playing at planning our wedding etc.

Lately I knew something was wrong, he never answers his phone when I ring, but always rings back 2 mins later - perhaps giving himself time to get out of a bookies? He will say he'll be home at a certain time, then show up 2 or 3 hours later because he's "working late" or visiting a mate. I was even joking about him having an affair - but now I'm not sure. If he could lie to me about gambling, who's to say he's not having an affair too, I don't think he is, but every ounce of trust I had in him is shattered, I'm thinking of calling off our wedding. Perhaps I'm over reacting?

These words could be mine.....my bf has a problem and he can't see it. I have lost so much respect for him over it. Heartbroken too and can see no happy future for us while horses are his first love. As a result I will never commit to him.

MrPillowTalk

Guy loses €600 = Get him to GA

Good advice there Qualified, perhaps we should just ban gambling drinking smoking and premarital sex hey puritan society is the shizzle.