Question About Turnabout in Test

Triton

Just have a quick question...

My driving instructor has told me that in the turnabout I can have the wheel locked in the direction I want to go before I take off the handbrake and start moving. However, another instructor told me that the car must be moving before you can move the steering wheel and other people have told me this too. Does anyone know are you allowed lock the steering?

My instructor gets me to lock the steering to the right, pull forward, lock the steering to the left, then reverse, lock it again to the right and pull forward to go but it makes it ten times easier. Are you definitely allowed do this?

I can also do it where I start moving a little and quickly move the steering but its harder than having the steering locked already.

event

as far as i was told, you can lock the steering before you start to move

i did this in my test, and it was fine

however, id wait to see what others have to say too, dont take it as gospel

Yellow Snow

There's no problem with locking the wheel before you turn but it's not good for your tires. You already said the solution yourself... move slowly and turn the wheel quickly. Might be a harder way to do it but with practice it will become second nature and it will make you look like a more accomplished/confident driver on the test day. Good luck with the test

snickerpuss

Yep I was told to turn the wheel only when you were moving but that you should be moving slowly and turning quickly!
Good luck with it!

Wishbone Ash

I would ensure that the wheels are moving a little before putting on the full lock, as it's less stressful on the steering components. With most vehicles now equipped with PAS, drivers do not appreciate the pulling forces involves. It was different in the pre PAS days when a lot of effort was required to put on the full lock in a stationary vehicle and it was frowned upon, to do so, during a test.

ztoical

my ancient car doesn't have power steering and its a pain in the ass to do any turns. Locking the wheel before moving off half the time the engine would stall - up grading to Land Rover Discovery in August can't wait.

Nightwish

I had a terrible habit of locking the wheel before moving but my instructor pulled me up on it. He said to only move the steering wheel when I move the car. It took a bit of practise to perfect it for the test, but I'm back to the old lazy way of doing it now that I've passed.

coolshark

Hi People

I'm a driving instructor so would like to give some advice regarding "locking the wheel before you move the car for turnabout manoeuvre"

The rule is yes you can lock the wheel before you move off but it is more skillful to be able to control the speed of the car and have the car moving as you lock the wheel. If you lock the wheel to the right moving off then fully to the left b4 you reverse and then to the right again, it does make it easier but you're putting more strain on your steering column. This is the mechanism that you can't see which makes the wheels turn. It is called a "dead turn", locking the wheels when the car is stationary. You can hear the strain on the steering as you lock it. In a test situation it is ok to do this and you will not be docked marks. Do it like this:

TURNABOUT MANOEUVRE:
Check rear-view and right wing mirror then indicate right.
Check up and down the road that it is clear & ooking over your right shoulder, weight of your foot on the accelerator,
Bringing up the clutch and left hand ready to take off the handbrake
Start turning the wheel & take off the handbrake.
SLOW WITH THE CAR & FAST WITH YOUR HANDS!!
Lock the wheel to the right feeding the wheel through your hands.
Hold the wheel fully locked to the right and stop the car as close to the path on the far side as possible without hitting it. (Use the space provided by getting close to the path on move off and reverse. This will allow to have a better chance to complete it in 3 steps and take the pressure off having to reverse the car twice)
Look up the road in both directions and over both shoulders BEFORE YOU REVERSE!!
Looking right over your left shoulder, bring up the clutch and release the footbrake and locking the wheel to the left as you look over your right shoulder, back to your left shoulder and finish looking over your right shoulder. (This is because if you are at the correct angle your back right hand wheel will hit the path first so if you finish looking over your right shoulder makind sure not to hit the path)
Stop the car and look left and right as you go into first gear.
BEFORE YOU MOVE DUCK YOUR HEAD PAST THE TESTERS EYE-LINE TO HAVE A FULL VIEW OF THE ROAD TO THE LEFT.
Looking to the right turning the wheel fast to the right as you bring up the clutch, weight of your right foot on the accelerator and you should have lots of room to spare.

PEOPLE REFER TO THE TURNABOUT AS A 3-POINT TURN BUT THERE IS NO SUCH THING! You may reverse more than once if you feel you need to so make sure to reverse the car again if you think you won't be able to finish the turnabout without clipping the path. If you can see the top of the path on the opposite side of the road before you move the car then you should be able to finish it with good quick steering and clutch control.

Hope this clears up this issue
Any queries about learning to drive or driving tests, mail me
All the best
CS

WUSBDesign

coolshark wrote: »

Check rear-view and right wing mirror then indicate right.

Are you sure about the indicating? Don't remember being taught/tested like this...4 months ago.

coolshark wrote: »

...weight of your foot on the accelerator,
Bringing up the clutch and left hand ready to take off the handbrake
Start turning the wheel & take off the handbrake.

How about adding "find the biting point" and clutch control? I am sure you mean to include those.

coolshark wrote: »

Hold the wheel fully locked to the right and stop the car as close to the path on the far side as possible without hitting it.

Don't one have to steer the wheel left as the car gets within a few feet of the kerb on the other side?

coolshark wrote: »

PEOPLE REFER TO THE TURNABOUT AS A 3-POINT TURN BUT THERE IS NO SUCH THING!

Yes, there is - if one manages to complete in 3 steps. For a wide road, the tester will expect completion of this manoeuvre in 3 steps; otherwise a fault on progress.

guil

ya do have to indicate when movin off from a stop no matter what

Nightwish

WUSBDesign wrote: »

Yes, there is - if one manages to complete in 3 steps. For a wide road, the tester will expect completion of this manoeuvre in 3 steps; otherwise a fault on progress.

When doing my test last week the tester asked me to complete a turnabout on the road in 1 or more manoeuvres. I did it in 5 and got no marks for it. My instructor told me that it is no longer a 3-point turn and if one even goes over 5, there are no marks deducted, that its all about control of the car and observation.

ztoical

WUSBDesign wrote: »

Yes, there is - if one manages to complete in 3 steps. For a wide road, the tester will expect completion of this manoeuvre in 3 steps; otherwise a fault on progress.

did my test last month and took 5 moves on a wide road and got no faults.

Alanstrainor

WUSBDesign wrote: »

Yes, there is - if one manages to complete in 3 steps. For a wide road, the tester will expect completion of this manoeuvre in 3 steps; otherwise a fault on progress.

Complete and utter rubbish, the name of this manoeuvre is the Turn About, not the three point turn, to pin it down to 3 turns of the wheel is ridiculous. There are numerous factors that will contribute to the number of turns of the wheel. For example, car length, road width, car turning circle.

WUSBDesign

Alanstrainor wrote: »

Complete and utter rubbish, the name of this manoeuvre is the Turn About, not the three point turn, to pin it down to 3 turns of the wheel is ridiculous. There are numerous factors that will contribute to the number of turns of the wheel. For example, car length, road width, car turning circle.

Hysterical outburst over choice of words. If the road is wide enough, you'll get a fault for non-progress if this turn-in-the-road take 5 steps. We seem to see parallel in some ways since you quote car length, road width etc. One ain't foolish to drive a MPV and attempt such a turn in a test - or have I not seen one yet? I understand that a turn-in-the-road or turn-about is appropriate in general but any instructor will dress you down for a road wide enough for a 3-point turn.

Lucky you if you manage to get away in a test.

mise

Ive never heard any of any instructor or tester saying you would be docked for 5 point turnabout. I was told by the tester that I could take 5 or 7 if need be... it was a road of normal width
And everything Ive read about the turnabout says it doesnt have to be in 3 points

Alanstrainor

WUSBDesign wrote: »

Hysterical outburst over choice of words.

I would rather you kept comments like that to yourself.

WUSBDesign wrote: »

If the road is wide enough, you'll get a fault for non-progress if this turn-in-the-road take 5 steps. We seem to see parallel in some ways since you quote car length, road width etc. One ain't foolish to drive a MPV and attempt such a turn in a test - or have I not seen one yet? I understand that a turn-in-the-road or turn-about is appropriate in general but any instructor will dress you down for a road wide enough for a 3-point turn.

Lucky you if you manage to get away in a test.

At this point i have to ask you to quote your reference for such information. You will be marked down for progress if you take a ridiculous number of turns for the given road width etc, but there is no 3 turn limit. As i stated in my previous post car length can play a large role in this. Some people may only have an estate car/mpv etc to do a test in so your point concerning car size really is irrelevant.

WUSBDesign

Alanstrainor wrote: »

I would rather you kept comments like that to yourself.

Well, I shall be pleased if you withdraw yours first. But, don't change the subject.

Alanstrainor wrote: »

At this point i have to ask you to quote your reference for such information. You will be marked down for progress if you take a ridiculous number of turns for the given road width etc, but there is no 3 turn limit. As i stated in my previous post car length can play a large role in this. Some people may only have an estate car/mpv etc to do a test in so your point concerning car size really is irrelevant.

First of all, google is your partner. Next, help yourself to these:
- RAC
- TheTimes

I agree and iterate again that the width of the road, size of the car, etc., play a part. I just haven't seen a test taken with the cars of your choice - it is just me.

Yellow Snow

WUSBDesign wrote: »

First of all, google is your partner. Next, help yourself to these:
- RAC
- TheTimes

I agree and iterate again that the width of the road, size of the car, etc., play a part. I just haven't seen a test taken with the cars of your choice - it is just me.

They are both related to the UK driving test.... not really relevant here

Alanstrainor

WUSBDesign wrote: »

Well, I shall be pleased if you withdraw yours first. But, don't change the subject.



First of all, google is your partner. Next, help yourself to these:
- RAC
- TheTimes

I agree and iterate again that the width of the road, size of the car, etc., play a part. I just haven't seen a test taken with the cars of your choice - it is just me.

There was nothing personal in stating your supposed "facts" are rubbish.

As stated, you're quoting references from a uk based site.

Stark

WUSBDesign wrote: »

First of all, google is your partner. Next, help yourself to these:
- RAC
- TheTimes

I agree and iterate again that the width of the road, size of the car, etc., play a part. I just haven't seen a test taken with the cars of your choice - it is just me.

As Yellow Snow said, those are the rules for the UK driving test. Nothing at all to do with the Irish driving test. Next you'll be telling us that you can pick up faults for not being able to parallel park!

Wishbone Ash

guil07 wrote: »

ya do have to indicate when movin off from a stop no matter what

Except when reversing!

comer_97

i got marked down for a 5 point turnabout in my test a few months back. I think it's down to the discretion of the tester. They might have felt that I could or should have done it in 3 and marked me down.

Wishbone Ash

comer_97 wrote: »

i got marked down for a 5 point turnabout in my test a few months back

Perhaps it was for the way you performed the procedure rather than the numbers of manoeuvres you made?

nacho libre

do you get bonus points for doing the turn in two moves:p

Wishbone Ash

nacho libre wrote: »

do you get bonus points for doing the turn in two moves:p

That would be impossible to do legally. It has to be 3,5,7,9,11 etc.

nacho libre

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

That would be impossible to do legally. It has to be 3,5,7,9,11 etc.

It's possible to do it safely without mounting the footpath.
i did it today in two moves without the wheels touching the footpath but they were very close. My friend was wondering how i managed it.

Wishbone Ash

nacho libre wrote: »

It's possible to do it safely without mounting the footpath.
i did it today in two moves without the wheels touching the footpath but they were very close. My friend was wondering how i managed it.

I'm listening................



EDIT: re my prevoius post - it is also possible to do it in 1 manoeuvre - i.e. a u-turn.

nacho libre

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

I'm listening................



EDIT: re my prevoius post - it is also possible to do it in 1 manoeuvre - i.e. a u-turn.

on the test route, in our aera, there is no way, given how narrow the road is, that anyone could turn the car right around in one move without mounting the foothpath.

nacho libre

anyway, it doesn't matter whether you can do it in two or three or five moves. i'll most likely fail my first test as my clutch work when starting off isn't the best. i was not being boastful with my first comment- just making an attempt at humour to reduce the stress around my test which is in a few weeks time.

Yellow Snow

nacho libre wrote: »

It's possible to do it safely without mounting the footpath.
i did it today in two moves without the wheels touching the footpath but they were very close. My friend was wondering how i managed it.

....I'm hugely confused by what you just said...

You cant (as far as I can see) do the turnabout in an even number of moves.

Can you explain what exactly the two moves you did were?

1 move - basically a u-turn

3 moves - drive forward, reverse back, drive forward completing turn

but 2 moves?? - drive forward, reverse..... ???

Sorry for sidetracking, I just cant see how you did it in two moves???

Good luck with your test by the way

Stark

The only way I can think of is from starting position: reverse, then drive forward. But you'd have to have been stopped in the middle of the road for that to work...

Yellow Snow

Yeah i thought about that too (honest ) but then I was thinking of test conditions, so starting positon pulled over to the left hand side of the road. Like you said, he'd have to be more to the centre of the road for reverse to be his first move. Anyway, hopefully he'll just stick to 3 or 5 for his test

nacho libre

Yellow Snow wrote: »

....I'm hugely confused by what you just said...


Sorry for sidetracking, I just cant see how you did it in two moves???

Good luck with your test by the way

Thanks:) I'll need it.
yes, i did it as described by Stark(i just wanted to see could i manage turning the car around in two moves without hitting the foothpath)

Done as mandated by the test rules it usually takes me three moves.
Though, i'll lose marks as i stop the car when moving forward, on the first move, to check my position and then start again. Still, i feel it's better do this than not stop and end up hitting the kerb.

sweetbubbly

As a fellow Driving instructor the information given by Coolshark is Perfectly correct in his advice on a turnabout in the driving test. It used to be called a three point turn but this was changed about 10 years ago, to turnabout. And as for doing it in 3 or 5 moves that is all dependent on the width of the road.
You will not be marked for doing in 5 moves.

The tester normally says " I would like you to turn the car around using the confines of the road, you may do this in 3 or 5 moves."
If you do not think you will clear the kerb on the 3rd move, dont risk it.
As for turning the steering wheel while the car is stopped, that is perfectly acceptable, before power steering, it was not acceptable to do this, as anyone who has driven a vehicle without power steering will tell it is practically impossible to full lock your steering unless you are built like Arnold Schwarzenegger.

Nools

ok can i just ask to be super clear does the turn about have to be done in an odd amount of attempts? for my 1st test i was told do it in 1 or more, needless to say i messed it up on a narrow road with a huge fat tree behind me. all instructors that ive had has said to it in as many was you need so now im lost and confused

Alanstrainor

Nools wrote: »

ok can i just ask to be super clear does the turn about have to be done in an odd amount of attempts? for my 1st test i was told do it in 1 or more, needless to say i messed it up on a narrow road with a huge fat tree behind me. all instructors that ive had has said to it in as many was you need so now im lost and confused

it can only be in done in odd amounts of turns, for example 3: forward, back, forward. If you did it in say, 4 turns,(forward, reverse, forward, reverse.) you'd be doing the rest of your test in reverse. You can take as many turns as you need, but they are inevitably in odd numbers.

Sup08

sweetbubbly wrote: »

The tester normally says " I would like you to turn the car around using the confines of the road, you may do this in 3 or 5 moves."

The tester says "I want you to turn your car around on the road to face the opposite way, you may go over and back more than once if necessary"

The necessary refers to the width of the road and the length of the car.
For example: Your typical driving school car is always a small 3 to 5 door car and therefore would be expected to do the turnabout in 3 points on a normal sized housing estate road. 5.5m to 6m wide.

J_R

sweetbubbly wrote: »

As for turning the steering wheel while the car is stopped, that is perfectly acceptable, before power steering, it was not acceptable to do this, as anyone who has driven a vehicle without power steering will tell it is practically impossible to full lock your steering unless you are built like Arnold Schwarzenegger.

Am sorry but this is not acceptable, power steering or not.

Dry steering or turning the wheel whilst the car is stationary puts strain on the rack and pinion, tie rods, bearings, the power pump and in particular rips rubber off your front tyres. Power steering does even more damage as the wheels can be turned that much quicker.

I do not understand why dry steering is not marked in the Irish test, as it is in the UK.

The basic purpose of the turnabout in the test is not to turn the car in the road, instead it is an exercise to test a person's car control skill. That is what the person is marked on, not the number of turns necessary to complete the manoeuvre.

If the driving instructor's remit is merely to have the pupil pass the test then allow dry steering. But if trying to prepare them for a lifetime of care free driving then they should be able to teach them that dry steering is totally unnecessary and in fact should be avoided.

Alanstrainor

J_R wrote: »

Am sorry but this is not acceptable, power steering or not...

I do not understand why dry steering is not marked in the Irish test, as it is in the UK.

Contradiction?
Dry steering is perfectly acceptable for test purposes, although i'll agree that it puts unnecessary strain on multiple parts of the car.

J_R

Alanstrainor wrote: »

Contradiction?
Dry steering is perfectly acceptable for test purposes, although i'll agree that it puts unnecessary strain on multiple parts of the car.

No contradiction in my post, only in the Irish driving test system whcih allows something which is damaging to the car (steering mechanism. tyres).

In the UK it can be marked as a serious (Grade 3)

Perhaps the reason it is not marked in Ireland is because too many people would fail the test. There are many driving instructors here who are either incapable or else do not bother teaching proper car control techniques which would make dry steering unnecessary.

But suppose it is down to the person learning to drive. do they want ot learn a skill for life or how to perform a trick to pass an Irish driving test.