Homebond Manual

Villain

The much awaited updated manual will be in the Homebond head office tomorrow and will be posted out to those who have pre-ordered from Monday.

Details on how to get the manual can be found on www.homebond.ie

Just FYI I called today looking for an update.

Mellor

Thanks for the update, I wonder how much has changed,
hopefully AT details are included

Soldier

this manual is 50 euro is it worth getting?

Mellor

€50 is nothing compared to the €200,000+ you will spend on a house,
It will easily save you €20,000 over the course of building, its a must, even if its just for an extension

muffler

Soldier wrote: »

this manual is 50 euro is it worth getting?

Listen, if it was €500 it would still be worth every penny or cent.

Jonnykitedude

Hey guys can you buy it in Easons???

Soldier

wow ill take it that the book is excellent so

Villain

Mine arrived today, haven't opened it yet but will do in a few hours

sas

Jonnykitedude wrote: »

Hey guys can you buy it in Easons???

Normally yes but I tried the one on O'Connell Street on friday and they didn't have it. According to their website it's not generally available yet.

http://www.eason.ie/look/9780952361466/House-Building-Manual-6Ed--Homebond--New-Edition-Available-2008/-Nhbgs

Obviously you can get it straight from homebond.

RKQ

The Homebond Manual is the book, there is no subsitute. A better title might be the Selfbuilders Bible. Excellent.... Where would we be without it? Homebond stated as an insurance scheme for house builders and has become the main authority on good construction practice in Ireland. They are inspectors and educators. Everyone in the construction sector makes it their business to attend Homebonds yearly seminars, around the country. Well done to all involved. An excellent manual by an excellent organisation.

construct06

i agree with the above. the information within should be taught in engineering courses as its so practical. it deals with most construction issues one would encounter in housing. Also as time goes by and more editions come out, they get better and better.

should be the first document one should get when self building or employing people direct labour, can be useful as a checklist and guide to make sure you are getting things done properly...

Soldier

Great ill go out and buy it tomorrow i really like this site people are so helpful and dont pounce on you and the administrators are so laid back

muffler

Soldier wrote: »

Great ill go out and buy it tomorrow i really like this site people are so helpful and dont pounce on you and the administrators are so laid back

The moderators you mean

Soldier

totally i meant the moderators great that you can comment and chat at the same time without getting barred for being off topic haha.

Supertech

All true about the Manual. When I was training all the books we used were by English authors, and all the details / information was always slightly different than what you were actually looking for. In terms of domestic construction, there is no better source of information. I didn't realise the new edition was out - I'll be legging it to the shops tomorrow. Anyone who's interested should try to get to the annual seminars aswell. They're finished for this year but are really worthwhile attending.They mainly cover revisions to the manual and are held in a number of different venues around the country.

kadman

RKQ wrote: »

The Homebond Manual is the book, there is no subsitute. A better title might be the Selfbuilders Bible. Excellent.... Where would we be without it? Homebond stated as an insurance scheme for house builders and has become the main authority on good construction practice in Ireland. They are inspectors and educators. Everyone in the construction sector makes it their business to attend Homebonds yearly seminars, around the country. Well done to all involved. An excellent manual by an excellent organisation.

Hopefully proper application of the excellent details is the primary goal for any user of the book. Sadly this is not always the case.
Describing Homebond as the main authority in good construction practices , and , inspectors and educators is nothing short of a joke. I have worked for companies that had dealings with Homebond, and in my opinion they are not as vigilant as " educators and inspectors "as they should be.

But the book is a definite must.

kadman

RKQ

Kadman, I'm not talking about individuals or personal experiences. The point I was making was that an insurer brought out it own book, for its members. This book was made available to the public. As a reference book it is second to none. It is also quite reasonably priced! I wish it was available when I was in college.

So when I stated,"Homebond started as an insurance scheme for house builders and has become the main authority on good construction practice in Ireland". Its no joke!

Name another organisation that publishes a manual, in Ireland, detailing the Building Regulations, statutory tables, good practice etc in easy to understand english? I don't understand the point you are making?

Has another Company done as much to educate it members and the general public? Provided cheap and detailed reference material? Does any other Company hold yearly seminars, around the Country? Free tickets or €5 on the door?

I am not a member of Homebond, but I am grateful for their existence. Most would agree they are a positive development in the Construction industry.
No organisation is perfect, so lets be positive.... No self builder or construction student or tradesman, should be without the manual. Its a great manual.

sinnerboy

My experience of homebond inspectors is not kadmans . In fact I found the guys were great .

With no real building control regime in Ireland i shudder to think what otherwise lousy standards our newest ( last 10 years ) volume housing stock would have been built to without homebond

muffler

kadman wrote: »

Hopefully proper application of the excellent details is the primary goal for any user of the book. Sadly this is not always the case.
Describing Homebond as the main authority in good construction practices , and , inspectors and educators is nothing short of a joke. I have worked for companies that had dealings with Homebond, and in my opinion they are not as vigilant as " educators and inspectors "as they should be.

But the book is a definite must.

kadman

And that to me is the joke of the year.

If you have a problem with Homebond staff well take it up with them but leave it out of this thread.

This topic is about the manual and not your personal dealings or opinions on people who work for Homebond.

End of.

Mellor

They are not a construction company.
But in the interest of good building practise (which benefits them i'll admit) they brought out a book of basic construction concepts and practices. They went beyond the sections that would affect them as insurers, to includes insulation, radon, sound etc.

kadman wrote: »

Hopefully proper application of the excellent details is the primary goal for any user of the book. Sadly this is not always the case.

If a user of the book has a different agenda to proper application of the excellent details, and they fail to do so. Then surely that is there fault, and not that of the authors

[/quote]
Describing Homebond as the main authority in good construction practices , and , inspectors and educators is nothing short of a joke.[/quote]
If not homebond, who would you decribe as the main authority in good construction practices (domestic of course)

I have worked for companies that had dealings with Homebond, and in my opinion they are not as vigilant as " educators and inspectors "as they should be.

Not as vigilant as they should be?
How vigilant should they be exactly, they are an insurance company, not building control.
Their book is a guide, to protecting your investment. Its not their fault if you dont follow it.
As for education, a number of their education elements are are unrelated to the insurance side of buildings. They have little, if not anything to gain by running them.

kadman

muffler wrote: »

This topic is about the manual and not your personal dealings or opinions on people who work for Homebond.

End of.

Right I,ll refer back to my earlier post on the manual as requested ....and keep it on topic.

"Book is a definite must".


kadman

kadman

sinnerboy wrote: »

My experience of homebond inspectors is not kadmans . In fact I found the guys were great .

With no real building control regime in Ireland i shudder to think what otherwise lousy standards our newest ( last 10 years ) volume housing stock would have been built to without homebond

Delighted to know you were happy with your homebond inspectors.

But if you think the last 10 years of housebuilding in this country was of a good standard, you are in serious need of a wakeup call. Any amount of these forums have threads related to poor workmanship prevalent throughout the construction industry projects.

The large scale volume of work in the last 10 years has offered a chance to every second rate builder to offer a poor quality project for an inflated sum of money. While Homebonds manual is an excellent reference piece, it will have little effect on any construction professional who fails to be guided by it, and there are many.

Given that we have new and more efficient building products available, and methods , excellent quality work should be the norm, but it is the excepton rather than the rule.

But thats just my opinion....

kadman

Mellor

kadman wrote: »

Delighted to know you were happy with your homebond inspectors.

But if you think the last 10 years of housebuilding in this country was of a good standard, you are in serious need of a wakeup call. Any amount of these forums have threads related to poor workmanship prevalent throughout the construction industry projects.

The large scale volume of work in the last 10 years has offered a chance to every second rate builder to offer a poor quality project for an inflated sum of money. While Homebonds manual is an excellent reference piece, it will have little effect on any construction professional who fails to be guided by it, and there are many.

Given that we have new and more efficient building products available, and methods , excellent quality work should be the norm, but it is the excepton rather than the rule.

But thats just my opinion....

kadman

I agree with the comments on the dodgy building.
but, if every client who was getting building work done was familar with homebond then then could spot the dodgy stuff and demand better service

ircoha

For those of you with influence in these matters, can you use your good offices to get a web-based, searchable version in pdf or/and html.
That would be the business and well worth the 500 muffler mentioned, apart from allowing online updates as well as saving a load of energy/paper/ink/etc.

kadman

Mellor wrote: »

I agree with the comments on the dodgy building.
but, if every client who was getting building work done was familar with homebond then then could spot the dodgy stuff and demand better service

Client could not possibly police his dodgy builder all the time. And he could not see work that has been covered up either, nor could he verify good dpc installation, thermal bridging issues, concrete quality, without additional testing equipment ect.And what about construction companies that build their own developments from start to finish , and then sell direct to the public. Unfortunately trying to eradicate low quality workmanship across the building sector is an almost impossible task.

kadman

smashey

Right, I've stayed away from this thread but I've had enough. This thread is about the merits of the the Homebond manual and nothing else. If there are any more comments about building quality (or lack thereof) or dodgy builders, there will be bans issued. End of.

By the way, Ircoha made a good pertinent point. Follow his example here pease.

kadman

I,m not too sure how you can discuss the merits of the Homebond manual, without referring to the influence of it on improving the quality of work in the construction industry, considering that its main purpose is to actually have an influence on it.

Surely this is discussing the very merits or otherwise, of the manual itself. So if I,m reading you right, any discussion on its merits is ok, but any mention of its shortcomings is likely to result in a ban.

How can you not discuss building quality , when we are discussing a manual that describes the proper methods of attaining excellent quality.

And dictating the actual route a thread to take , sort of takes the objectivity of differing views away from the discussion. If you intend to ban me for taking part in a thread on a construction manual, and its influence on construction in modern day applications , then go ahead.

But does that mean that RKQ, Sinnerboy, and Mellor will also be banned for discussing it as well.

It seems the only views you want to see posted here, are ones that align to your own

kadman ( now banned for having an opinion)

smashey

kadman wrote: »

How can you not discuss building quality , when we are discussing a manual that describes the proper methods of attaining excellent quality.

The manual is there for guidance purposes. Not all self builds are guaranteed by Homebond so a lot of builders don't refer to it. Quality of build should be checked by the architect/engineer signing off on it, not some builder working out of a van and reading a book as he goes along.

kadman wrote:

And dictating the actual route a thread to take

Strange one that. It's called moderating.

sinnerboy

kadman wrote: »

Delighted to know you were happy with your homebond inspectors.

But if you think the last 10 years of housebuilding in this country was of a good standard, you are in serious need of a wakeup call. Any amount of these forums have threads related to poor workmanship prevalent throughout the construction industry projects.

The large scale volume of work in the last 10 years has offered a chance to every second rate builder to offer a poor quality project for an inflated sum of money. While Homebonds manual is an excellent reference piece, it will have little effect on any construction professional who fails to be guided by it, and there are many.

Given that we have new and more efficient building products available, and methods , excellent quality work should be the norm, but it is the excepton rather than the rule.

But thats just my opinion....

kadman

actually there is much you say here i agrree with KM . where we differ is that i beleive that without HB - things would be worse .

kadman

sinnerboy wrote: »

actually there is much you say here i agrree with KM . where we differ is that i beleive that without HB - things would be worse .

Sinnerboy,

You actually agree with much I say...you want to be careful about coming over to the darkside.;)

Smashey, you are actually discussing it....progress. The manual for guidance purposes is excellent. I never speciically referred to self builds, homebond cover on any project is no actual guarantee for a prospective purchaser that you are in posession of a good build.

Quality of build should be checked by architect / engineer. Agreed , but this is not always done to an acceptable level either. Would I be correct in saying that many inspections signed of on by engineers and architects stipulate that , " inspection is based on visual inspection, and not on what may be covered during the building process.

A builder out of a van reading the book , is much the same as an junior AT reading the book , and then doing his cad work.;)

kadman

muffler

kadman, i asked you to desist from straying off topic and as I dont go to your forum and query your modding abilities I would thank you not to question ours in this forum.

Take it to PM, feedback or help desk if you wish but thats the end of it. Im not going to be dictated to and ignored here.

Infraction given and any further repeat will result in a red card.




Edit: Oh I've just realised that I cant infract another mod so a red card will have to suffice. Have a week off and when you come back here again you can keep your "opinions" on topic.

topcatcbr

so is the homebond manual in easons yet and has it included new part l requirements and how to achieve same
Staying on topic
TY

Soldier

the new one isnt out until the end of june so i will get it then.

sinnerboy

got mine in post today

yes there is a lot on BER / Part L 2007

topcatcbr

sinnerboy wrote: »

got mine in post today

yes there is a lot on BER / Part L 2007

Is there anything on air pressure testing

GoneShootin

Got mine today. I'll be busy reading it for a few weeks to come! I've not a bulls notion of building a house, but at least this might make me some bit informed.

sinnerboy

topcatcbr wrote: »

Is there anything on air pressure testing

yes - appendix O ( 8 pages )

( cost of manual is €50 )

What is also useful to order is the "right on the sight" series of leaflets

- also costs €50.00 .

They will keep you on a mailing list and send you ( free ) updates . Right on the Site keeps you up to date with issues in between the issuing of revised Manuals


Examples

- right on the site leaflet ( no 45 ) for air pressure testing was issued in April .
- leaflet no 28 , updated , for Part L 2007 , was issued March 08

ircoha

Just reading pg 15 of Issue 28 of Right on site which indicates the above.

Its a pity that there are still a fair few typographical errors in the new stuff.
For example, on page 15 of Issue 28 of the Right on site it says that over 110mm cavity requires a structural engineer to design wall.
Page 20 implies the limit is 150mm

Its also a pity that the fire stopping requirements are only listed for composite pb installation, instead of being on every page for internal insulation details.

BoozyBabe

Got mine in the post today.
That's gonne keep me busy for the next 6 months I'd say!!!!
533 pages!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:eek:

Looks good though. Cowboy builders beware!!!! I'm gonna know you're bs'ing me now!!:D

sas

Does ICF or external insulation feature in the new edition?

sinnerboy

Not as such SAS

Page 444 "new building systems / methods of construction" says

( I paraphrase )

ensure building methods are suitable to ireland

take care when using methods not traditional here

personell must be trained to use system - works to be supervised

warns of "recent ( bad ) experience " in Canada when non trad methods were adopted there ( no specifics )

HB members must produce EVIDENCE that proposed new system is appropriate to Ireland ( AFAIK only 2 ICF systems have IAB certs )

Cautious as ever , Dear old Aunty HB .

( Nothing wrong with that )

sinnerboy

SAS - anticipating your next question - nothing on external wall insulation either

sas

sinnerboy wrote: »

SAS - anticipating your next question - nothing on external wall insulation either

Thanks for this. Wasn't expecting it but doesn't hurt to ask.

topcatcbr

Is this in easons yet

sas

topcatcbr wrote: »

Is this in easons yet

Yes, I got a copy in the O'Connell Street branch last week.

Garroldy

I bought one in Easons Blanchardstown SC yestrday. It was the only one on the shelves though.

byrneos

hello,
am i right in thinking this book would be of great benefit when modernising and renovating and older gaff as well as for new builds?

Supertech

It's geared towards new builds byrneos, some of the details might be relevant if you're extending or undertaking major renovations.

JohnBoy

byrneos wrote: »

hello,
am i right in thinking this book would be of great benefit when modernising and renovating and older gaff as well as for new builds?

Its geared at new builds, but I've found it a very useful reference for our house rennovation.

If only to see how things would be done nowadays.

The construction detail drawings and load tables are always useful imho.

murph226

Apologies for digging up an old thread, but I didn't see the point in starting a new one!

Is there similar type of book out there suitable for people renovating older buildings and that would cover things like EWI, airtightness and ventilation?

Cheers Murph

sinnerboy

Just before the Christmas the Dept of Environment issued a public tender to procure a Code of Practice document for upgrade works. I would not expect to see anything until at least Q3 this year which maybe too late for you but , generally speaking , hopefully the document will be "worth the wait"