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First wrestling memory

  • 22-05-2008 3:10pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,045 ✭✭✭


    I think this topic has been done a couple of times, but with new people joining all the time, it might be fun to do it again and bring back some old memories.

    So what's your first wrestling memory or early wrestling memories?


    Mine I think occurred around late 1990. All I can remember is coming home and watching Jake the Snake beat some job guy in about 2 minutes.

    Other early memories include:

    - Arguing with another kid my age (7 or so) about which member of the Legion of Doom was better. I maintained Animal was for the simple fact that in hindsight I picked up on the fact that in most of their matches in the WWF, it was Animal who would make the hot tag and run wild while Hawk would take the beating!

    - Earthquake crushing Hogan on the Brother Love show (I think it was on that show).

    - Tugboat shockingly turning on the Hulkster.

    - British Bulldog winning a battle royal at the the Royal Albert Hall in London with Andre the Giant (who was in bits physically) saving him from Earthquake and Typhoon.

    Anyway, let the nostalgia begin!~!

    EDIT: I also have a vague recollection of watching Japanese stuff from Eurosport. I remember very little about it though except Vader and his entrance.


«13

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,754 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Brit Bulldogs v Hart Foundation (with Danny Davis reffing!)
    Hulk Hogan v Randy Savage
    30 stone Kamala comign off the top rope on someone...

    Mainly the first one, though....
    Sat ITV mid afternoon, in place of the usual British stuff the showed at the time...

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,581 ✭✭✭judas101


    mine was when the rockers split up on beefcakes barber shop. that was a big deal.

    i'd been into wrestling for a while but this is the first standout memory.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,602 ✭✭✭✭ShawnRaven


    Gonna be showing my age here! :D

    Andre returning to Superstars in January 87 (i think), only to side with Bobby Heenan, to challenge Hogan for a title shot at Wrestlemania III. It would be the topic of conversation in school for weeks to come, and weeks after when Wrestlemania III happened.

    Good times.
    VR!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,045 ✭✭✭Vince135792003


    Ikky Poo2 wrote: »
    Brit Bulldogs v Hart Foundation (with Danny Davis reffing!)

    The evil ref! When Sky, use to show the classic shows a couple of years back, I followed that one.


  • Subscribers Posts: 2,163 ✭✭✭Brolly


    The first wrestling show I ever watched was WWF Superstars in late 1990 - it just so happened to be the first night of Undertaker on WWF! My brother was mad into it for years at that stage and he "made" me watch it. Since then, I have been hooked on it!!! Thats all I remember (I had just turned 4 at the time and I don't remember that much from back then!!!)

    Anybody got the exact date that Undertaker started on in the WWF? I know it was Nov/Dec 1990.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,300 ✭✭✭nice1franko




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,082 ✭✭✭✭chopperbyrne


    Being allowed stay up late in my Nana's to watch Wrestlemania III on the Super Channel.

    I was still two months away from my fourth birthday!

    I doubt there's that many of us on the board that remember the Super Channel!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,594 ✭✭✭Fozzy


    A blonde wrestler (I assume Shawn Michaels for some reason) bleeding and my mate being really upset about it. I was thinking that the wrestler was a bit of a coward for not getting up


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,560 ✭✭✭✭Kess73


    Think mine would be the Macho Man/ Ricky Steamboat match where Macho came down on Steamboat's throat with the bell.

    And then the build up leading to Wrestlemania 3, which was the first Wrestlemania that I watched live on tv.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,747 ✭✭✭MikeHoncho


    The Mega Powers !!!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,785 ✭✭✭Kane-N-Nite


    You know, I actually can't recall..........:confused:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,376 ✭✭✭✭rossie1977


    yeah giant haystacks and big daddy would be my first memory of wrestling too around 1982 or 83 on ITV and indeed probably my first memory of tv in general along with rainbow (Bungle, zippy and george :p)

    first WWF match i saw was hulk hogan/bob orton circa 1985, little did i think that some 20 years later i would be talking to the man in person (orton) about that exact memory


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 21,296 ✭✭✭✭gimmick


    Kess73 wrote: »
    Think mine would be the Macho Man/ Ricky Steamboat match where Macho came down on Steamboat's throat with the bell.

    And then the build up leading to Wrestlemania 3,

    Yup, thats mine as well.

    Andre turning on Hogan at Pipers Pit.

    The Islanders joining The Heenan family. That really upset me.

    Demolitions title win against Rick Martel and Tom Zenk who were an uber sickeningly sweet babyface tag team (Can Am Express?).

    Those memories may be spaced out over a few years I think? VR?


  • Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 15,577 Mod ✭✭✭✭Furious-Red


    mine was alot later then most peoples but i remember flicking trew sky 1999 and watching the whole HHH marrying steph and from then i would watch F all but then just before summerslam 2000 i really got into it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,602 ✭✭✭✭ShawnRaven


    I thought someone would never ask! I love vintage WWE!
    gimmick wrote: »
    Yup, thats mine as well.

    Andre turning on Hogan at Pipers Pit.

    January 1987 if i recall correctly. Andre took some time off due to health issues, came back for what was supposed to be one final big run to last a year.
    The Islanders joining The Heenan family. That really upset me.

    I saw this a few months back, it's either from Superstars 87 or on one of the best of wwf compilations. Basically The Islanders had a very long jobbing streak from the likes of the Hart Foundation, and Demolition, both of who were heels at the time. Heenan took them under his wing when they had a face vs face match with the Can-Am Connection. When Heenan showed down, the Can-Am's got confused, and then counted out, and thats when Heenan announced he was managing them. He'd pull the same stunt at the IC title tournament on Superstars in 1990, causing Santana to lose the final to Mr perfect. The event took place in September 1987 i think.
    Demolitions title win against Rick Martel and Tom Zenk who were an uber sickeningly sweet babyface tag team (Can Am Express?).

    You're almost right there. Rick Martel and Tom Zenk were the Can-Am Connection. However Zenk left the WWE a few months later due to money issues. Martel apparently got a bigger payoff than Zenk did at Wrestlemania. Zenk about three years later would also leave WCW, also due to money issues. He was replaced by Tito Santana, and they were paired as Strike Force. Strike Force won the titles from the Harts on an October edition of Superstars 87, and would hold the titles for nearly six months, before dropping them to Demolition at Wrestlemania IV. Not a bad accomplishment for a makeshift team back then.

    Further to that, there would be a rematch one month later which left Martel injured for the guts of ten months due to a botched chair shot by Darsow. Martel returned in January 1989 and Strike Force split at Wrestlemania V. There was never a proper blowoff match for it.
    Those memories may be spaced out over a few years I think? VR?

    Pretty much the guts of a year I'm afraid ;)
    VR!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,602 ✭✭✭✭ShawnRaven


    Being allowed stay up late in my Nana's to watch Wrestlemania III on the Super Channel.

    I was still two months away from my fourth birthday!

    I doubt there's that many of us on the board that remember the Super Channel!

    I do, but Sky channel showed it, i still have the original tape of the recording from it with the Sky logo in the top right. Super channel played more music, with occasional american cartoons in the morning, and game shows in the evening. ;)

    VR!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,602 ✭✭✭✭ShawnRaven


    brolly wrote: »
    Anybody got the exact date that Undertaker started on in the WWF? I know it was Nov/Dec 1990.

    Survivor Series 1990 as the mystery partner for DiBiase's Million $ Team. The airdate was November 22nd 1990.

    VR!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 21,296 ✭✭✭✭gimmick



    Pretty much the guts of a year I'm afraid ;)
    VR!

    Better than I thought. I thought it could have been the guts of 30 months tbh.

    Re Strikeforce. I remember when they had the titles, and absolutely loving them, as an 8 year old really should have had at the time. I was thinking about how invincible they were and all the teams they had beaten, and being quite happy that they would be champs forever. Then the thought struck me - Demolition. Dammit. Even at that tender age I realised my heros hadn't a chance.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,602 ✭✭✭✭ShawnRaven


    Here's the thing about Strike Force. Two of WWE's fairly over tag teams had to be split. Volkoff and Sheik were a huge heel team, but Sheik inadvertantly failed a drugs test (he knew he'd test black, but he got someone else to urinate for him and that urine tested black too!), so he was out. So they brought in AWA Mainstay Boris Zhukov to fill his boots.

    With the Can-Am connection, with the momentum they had, WWE were, in a word screwed when Zenk bailed because of the crowd pops they were getting. Santana's singles career had been plumeting since his IC title loss 18 months earlier, so he was thrown together with Martel to keep the team going, but seeing as he looked nothing like Zenk, they renamed the team. They did the same thing a year or so earlier with Windham and Rotondo, when Windham bailed for NWA, he was replaced with Danny Spivey.

    And you might be from Cork, but i'm from Dublin, and you're nowhere near better than me! ;)

    VR!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 21,296 ✭✭✭✭gimmick


    Meh, prove it :p


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 411 ✭✭HBK


    I think it has to be 94 and Owen beating Bret in the opening match at WM10!shocked i was!!!!

    tho if im honest about it, it would be silvervision home video and hulk - warrior at WM...i think

    oh and that game on the megadrive, or was it the commadore64 meh i dunno RAW i think it was called


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,045 ✭✭✭Vince135792003


    HBK wrote: »
    I think it has to be 94 and Owen beating Bret in the opening match at WM10!shocked i was!!!!

    I love that match. One of my absolute favourites.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,478 ✭✭✭Bubs101


    Your from Cork, no proof necessary ;)

    My first memory is alot later than the majority posted but I distinctly remember defending Edge and Christian to my whole class who were obsessed with Team 3D and the Hardys. My Batistuta like hair made me empathize with them. The day after WM 17 was a great one for me.

    Other scattered memories include a love for D-LO Brown, Al Snow and X-Pac, alot of DX promos, Goldust's finisher, The Rock turning heel and The Rock vs. Mankind at the Royal Rumble


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,066 ✭✭✭Firewalkwithme


    My first exposure to pro wrestling was the awful Big Daddy & Giant Haystacks stuff on UTV before the final scores came in on a Saturday evening. I then heard all about WWF around the WM III stage and from there on I have been more or less a regular viewer.

    My favorite memory though, if there is such a thing, was listening to the whole of the 1991 Royal Rumble where Flair won the title in the Rumble match. It was scrambled on Cablelink as it was known at the time but the audio still came through and since Monsoon and Heenan did possibly the best commentary job of any PPV I have seen before or since I could almost visualise what was going on in the ring. I was a huge Flair fan back then - even though nobody in my class at school seemed to realise who he was since they only knew of WWF.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 21,296 ✭✭✭✭gimmick


    That was 1992 in one of the better Rumbles. Though I am not sure whether it stands the test of time, as I tried watching recently and got bored kind of quickly. Great commentary though.

    Also, Hogan pissed me off big time with his input toward the end.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,066 ✭✭✭Firewalkwithme


    gimmick wrote: »
    That was 1992 in one of the better Rumbles. Though I am not sure whether it stands the test of time, as I tried watching recently and got bored kind of quickly. Great commentary though.

    Also, Hogan pissed me off big time with his input toward the end.

    1992 of course.

    The Hogan bit at the end was interesting because of the boos he got - he looked like a real bad loser and Sid really played the crowd well for a change! I remember Hogan looked genuinely worried at the reaction to the finish.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,925 ✭✭✭Otis Driftwood


    Earliest memories of wrestling.Went to a show somewhere in Sligo approx 23 years ago cos Giant Haystacks was on the card.He beat The Mighty Chang and poor old Chang started crying.I remember feeling quite sorry for him.

    As regards TV probably watching WCW on ITV early 90s.I remember the whole Mick Foley going missing thing after Vader powerbombed him on the concrete.

    First live WWF PPV I saw was Mania 9.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,045 ✭✭✭Vince135792003


    gimmick wrote: »
    That was 1992 in one of the better Rumbles. Though I am not sure whether it stands the test of time, as I tried watching recently and got bored kind of quickly. Great commentary though.

    I think the Royal Rumble is the kind of match that once you know the outcome, it's alot harder to sit through than say a typical great match.

    Plus, at least when I was younger I bought into the fact that anybody could win which obviously added to the excitement level.

    In comparison to earlier Rumbles, 1992 is miles better than them.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,602 ✭✭✭✭ShawnRaven


    gimmick wrote: »
    Meh, prove it :p

    Easily done, cross the liffey and it smells of sewage, cross the Lee and it smells like dead fish, or maybe that's just the dodgy whores they have down the road from the Cork Opera House ;)

    Aaaanyway, back on topic. Nice to see you can take the joke as well as dish it out ;)

    VR!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,602 ✭✭✭✭ShawnRaven


    My favorite memory though, if there is such a thing, was listening to the whole of the 1991 Royal Rumble where Flair won the title in the Rumble match. It was scrambled on Cablelink as it was known at the time but the audio still came through and since Monsoon and Heenan did possibly the best commentary job of any PPV I have seen before or since I could almost visualise what was going on in the ring. I was a huge Flair fan back then - even though nobody in my class at school seemed to realise who he was since they only knew of WWF.

    That was 1992, Hogan won it in 1991.
    But suffering sweet sh*t on a stick, i thought i was the only one who sat down and listened to the audio on scrambled wrestling!! In fairness, the only other memorable thing about that PPV other than Flair's title win was Heenan and Monsoon's commentary! ;)

    VR!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,602 ✭✭✭✭ShawnRaven


    1992 of course.

    The Hogan bit at the end was interesting because of the boos he got - he looked like a real bad loser and Sid really played the crowd well for a change! I remember Hogan looked genuinely worried at the reaction to the finish.

    What a lot of people don't remember is the fact that on the TV programming after that, the audio was edited so that it sounded like Flair was booed when he won, and Hogan was cheered when he pulled Sid out.

    The SNME that took place the following month is a prime example of this.
    VR!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,466 ✭✭✭✭SlickRic


    Bret v Owen WM10

    Bret was (i repeat, WAS) my hero. Owen's win hurt.

    i remember King repeatedly telling everyone about the sharpshooter being Owen's move and i just remember it pi$$ing me off no end as a naive 9yr old


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭fatal


    Watching WCW on saturday afternoons on ITV are probably my earliest wrestling memories.The first time I saw wrestling I was hooked.A couple of years later "WWF superstars" was shown on saturday evenings on sky one.
    I couldn't to watch WCW "nitro" ,gladiators and WWF "superstars" every saturday.Hence why saturday's used to be my favourite day.
    I was a huge fan of guys like Hogan,sting,warrior,doink the clown,the nasty boys,flair,ahmed johson,smoking guns,nation of domination,big bossman etc etc etc and i've got some wonderful memories of them.

    edit:After reading vince's first post,I also remember watching japanese wrestling on eurosport.Very entertaining stuff indeed!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,082 ✭✭✭✭chopperbyrne


    My favorite memory though, if there is such a thing, was listening to the whole of the 1991 Royal Rumble where Flair won the title in the Rumble match. It was scrambled on Cablelink as it was known at the time but the audio still came through and since Monsoon and Heenan did possibly the best commentary job of any PPV I have seen before or since I could almost visualise what was going on in the ring. I was a huge Flair fan back then - even though nobody in my class at school seemed to realise who he was since they only knew of WWF.

    I did that too!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 517 ✭✭✭greatgoal


    now the ages are showing,jackie pallo v mick mc manus in the mid 60s,i also remember johnny kwango v les kellett.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,602 ✭✭✭✭ShawnRaven


    Hah PW Forum war! The New Blood vs The Old Codgers :D:D
    VR!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,045 ✭✭✭Vince135792003


    greatgoal wrote: »
    now the ages are showing,jackie pallo v mick mc manus in the mid 60s,i also remember johnny kwango v les kellett.

    It's amazing to think that up to 14 million people used to watch it in the UK at it's peak each Saturday. Of course it was a different era with less pass times but that's still a heck of a number.

    Apparently it was Greg Dyke the former director general of the BBC who pulled the plug on it when he held that position in ITV at the time.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 845 ✭✭✭nhughes100


    Another one showing my age but British wrestling on Saturday mornings ITV is my first memory. God it was awful but very occassionally they would show an american wrestling special - It was like taking drugs, all hell broke lose - why can't they do that on British wrestling I asked. Anyway I was there for the start of Sky TV so watching WMIII live was my first American event.

    +1 for the brilliant Brain and Gorilla commentaries. I don't think there's ever been a commentator to match Heenan's quick wit.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,045 ✭✭✭Vince135792003


    nhughes100 wrote: »
    I don't think there's ever been a commentator to match Heenan's quick wit.

    Jessie Ventura was great too. Different to Heenan but equally as good in my opinion.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,602 ✭✭✭✭ShawnRaven


    Ventura was awesome because when you were a young mark kid, Jesse always called it as he saw it, and you hated him so much because he was ragging on the faces, yet he was pretty much speaking the truth. His commentary during the Megapowers feud was awesome, siding with Savage (and rightfully so), while laying into Hogan at every given opportunity.

    Ah... good times.
    VR!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,602 ✭✭✭✭ShawnRaven


    nhughes100 wrote: »
    Anyway I was there for the start of Sky TV so watching WMIII live was my first American event.

    Funnily enough, that would be the only event they would show live until Sky Movies showed Mania VI as a special event. All others in between would be shown the following Monday at 8pm. I remember they made a total botch of Mania V with ads and the matches were all in the wrong order too. Survivor Series 87 was also riddled with ads too.

    VR!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,082 ✭✭✭✭chopperbyrne


    Ventura was awesome because when you were a young mark kid, Jesse always called it as he saw it, and you hated him so much because he was ragging on the faces, yet he was pretty much speaking the truth. His commentary during the Megapowers feud was awesome, siding with Savage (and rightfully so), while laying into Hogan at every given opportunity.

    Ah... good times.
    VR!

    Venturas commentary made matches seem better than they were.

    People always go on about how great the Savage and Steamboat match was, but I've seen it dozens of times and it is a good match, but not as great as people say it was.

    I'm convinced many people only have that opinion because about fifteen or sixteen minutes in Jesse says "This is the best pro wrestling match I've ever seen." and it just stuck in peoples minds.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,602 ✭✭✭✭ShawnRaven


    Here's the thing about Wrestlemania III, right...

    It's remembered for two things. The second is the Savage v Steamboat match, because it upstaged every match on that card, and you can't deny that. You can say you don't like it because you don't like that style of Pro-Wrestling, which is fine, but it blew every other match on that card out of the water (unless you're Bret Hart, in which case you'll be a firm believe of your own hype and say that the midcard six man tag was the best out of the entire card), but the crowd reaction after the end of both matches tells that story anyway.

    The first thing Mania III will be remembered for is the Hogan/Andre slam, it was a horrible match but that was the slam heard around the world at the time, and it's still shown on highlights packages to this day.

    But Savage v Steamboat, in my opinion, was probably one of the greatest matches of the 80's, and one that brought back prestige back to the IC title as a direct result. After Savage literally stole it from Santana 14 months earlier. And it's pretty much known that Vince McMahon used every opportunity to humiliate and de-push Steamboat that he could find, because he upstaged the main event.

    VR!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,082 ✭✭✭✭chopperbyrne


    I'm not suggesting that it wasn't the best match on the card, but I just don't think it's as good as it's regarded.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,602 ✭✭✭✭ShawnRaven


    I'll be honest with you, you're not the first person i've heard/read say/type that. It's down to personal preference really, but what has to be taken into consideration is that a lot of matches in WWE at the time were punck/kick, slam, clothesline, finisher, 123. That match took made that formula look like the joke that it was, and which, in my opinion, has made it so memorable to the point that it's still talked about 21 years later. :)

    VR!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,082 ✭✭✭✭chopperbyrne


    Oh it definitely kickstarted the kind of wrestling we see today and both Savage and Steamboat deserve recognition for that, but it was very choreographed.

    Possible Savage did the same thing for that match he did with Flair years later, made him practice the match repeatedly.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 845 ✭✭✭nhughes100


    It was a classic build up to the Savage/Steamboat match, the type you don't really get any more thanks to PPV's every month etc. Both guys style matched perfectly, add in having George Steele on the outside, the numerous pinning attempts, the crowd reaction - not to mention the ref sounding like he made a 3 count on more then one occassion and it was completely above standerd given the kick punch clothes line finisher matches as is correctly pointed out above that were par for the day.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,602 ✭✭✭✭ShawnRaven


    Oh it definitely kickstarted the kind of wrestling we see today and both Savage and Steamboat deserve recognition for that, but it was very choreographed.

    Possible Savage did the same thing for that match he did with Flair years later, made him practice the match repeatedly.

    Savage apparently did that with everyone he worked a program with, he did it with Hogan (according to him on the Warrior DVD anyway), and he did it with Warrior.

    Personally i don't see any problem with it. The whole thing is a work anyway, so if it's gonna be done to perfection, then i've no problem with it. Of course, i'm a huge mark for Savage and always was. ;)

    VR!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,602 ✭✭✭✭ShawnRaven


    nhughes100 wrote: »
    It was a classic build up to the Savage/Steamboat match, the type you don't really get any more thanks to PPV's every month etc. Both guys style matched perfectly, add in having George Steele on the outside, the numerous pinning attempts, the crowd reaction - not to mention the ref sounding like he made a 3 count on more then one occassion and it was completely above standerd given the kick punch clothes line finisher matches as is correctly pointed out above that were par for the day.

    The amount of near-falls like that today would be booed out of the building. Thats how big a deal it was in 87. I'd have to agree with you on the buildup, thats why SNME was such a big deal in the 80s and early 90s. It doesn't mean squat nowadays as it's pretty much a glorified RAW now.

    Times like this i wish Vince would go through some of the WWE library so he can remember the days when wrestling was watchable, and maybe produce a better show than he is doing these days. :)

    VR!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,143 ✭✭✭D-FENS


    Earliest memory of WWF was ironically on the old English wrestling on ITV – they had a special “American Edition” for the 4th of July in ’86, and it was hosted by Lord Alfred Hayes of all people (I remember not having a clue who he was), I can’t really remember the matches, but I know Hogan, Savage and Greg Valentine were involved. Ì actually didn’t really know who Hogan was either, I remembered seeing him in the A Team about a year earlier, but thought he was just a character for that show.

    Earliest memory of WWF programming is of course “Superstars” when it started on Sky around the start of ‘87 – Andre’s heel turn, Piper feuding with Adrian Adonis, and The Harts winning the tag belts from The Bulldogs, I remember being disgusted by that as a kid, over a year before I’d learnt to appreciate Bret (Until his face turn at WM 4 really).
    Oh yeah, and I remember being scared of Kamala and Sika…


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