Superusers and Silence: How UltimateBet let players get cheated for millions

hotspur

Deleted User wrote: »

The United States Government could go a long way to resolving these issues by legalising the gaming industry within the US under the framework of a national regulatory body which would have powers to act against any company not being seen to comply with the statutory standards of practise.

The companies would have to be licensed there for them to have powers. These gaming companies licensed from dodgy Indian territory in Canada or Costa Rica or what have you are a law unto themselves. You see the situation with the UK trying to bring online gaming companies in under their authority but priced themselves out of consideration when Brown slapped a big tax on it. The best they could really do was disallow advertising from non-white listed jurisdictions.

Of course Kahnawake is a joke, the Indian casinos would scalp you in their own land based casinos, you think the Mohawk's in Canada give 2 damns about you. What was funniest was when the Absolute scandal broke that Kahnawake contracted Australia's Gaming Associates to conduct the investigation. A few people on this forum may remember me telling them about this company years ago.

My view on the whole issue of rigged online gambling sites is fairly different to most of you, but it's difficult to talk about without seeming like an idiot because of the company it puts you in. If you study the history of gambling right up to the present day then one thing that impresses you is the extent of rigging and cheating that has always gone on from both the industry and the punters.

There is a reason why Las Vegas is so full of rules, regulations, enforcement and compliance officers, checks etc. It is because the gaming companies would rip the public off otherwise. You really think their slot machines would pay out what they are supposed to if there were no checks or penalties? This is what the Nevada Gaming Commission writes in their booklet about their regulation:

"Public confidence and trust can only be maintained by strict regulation of all
persons, locations, practices, associations and activities related to the operation of licensed
gaming establishments, the manufacture, sale or distribution of gaming devices and associated equipment and the operation of inter-casino linked systems."

So what about online gambling? Well not all online gambling regulating jurisdictions are the same, there's quite a difference between being licensed in Alderney and in Costa Rica. But even in the better ones the companies are effectively free to rip punters off. What evidence do people really have that a blackjack or roulette game is paying out what you expect it to, and under all conditions? That the source code they gave for their RNG to an independent company for evaluation is exactly what they are running? The answer is none.

I disagree with the people who make the argument that it would be stupid to risk the reputation of a very profitable company in order to skim more money. Apart from the general fact that companies very often act similarly to psychopaths, the real point is that if they cannot be caught then THERE IS NO RISK. In an effectively unregulated industry like this they cannot be caught unless they engage in egregiously stupid behaviour. Anyone with half a brain running an online gambling company could make a ton more money by tweaking things a little one way or another in a risk free manner. And if they can then many certainly will.

If the biggest and most reputable land based casinos in Vegas need a whole bunch of people making sure that they aren't ripping people off do you really think some online company founded with porn money or based somewhere where the country it's in has no authority (Kahnawake) doesn't require the same level of scrutiny to prevent it?

I'm a skeptic. I know that online gaming companies have cheated people, so do you. I expect it to happen, most of you don't. I think that on the balance of probability online gaming companies are cheating people to a far greater extent than anyone realises.

I'm not one bit surprised by the UB thing because I have thought they were dodgy for years, I don't think it's one bad apple we are talking about. You know what really surprises me? That Fulltilt is on the level (as far as we know yet). And I'm sure you know what I mean by that. Maybe Matusow isn't so crazy after all

...now where's that tinfoil hat I made.

DEEP THROAT

Deleted User wrote: »

The United States Government could go a long way to resolving these issues by legalising the gaming industry within the US under the framework of a national regulatory body which would have powers to act against any company not being seen to comply with the statutory standards of practise.

Pipe dreams obviously but most simple and adequate solutions are.

Unfortunately they are more likely to use it as a reason to say "See We were right to ban it!:mad:"

On the Absolute Poker front they took some action along the lines of

1. They found out who the guilty party was and terminated him ( their phrase not mine ). It seems he was an "independent contractor" working inside the organization.

2. They got fined by the Kan... (I won't try and spell it) Gaming Comission. It was either 500k or 5mill.

3. They took the hit for all the loses.

Tourneys: The user was disqualified from all tourneys ( regardless of result )and every one moved up a place AND if you didn't cash your buyin(s) was refunded....

Cash Games: All loses incurred at tables with this player were refunded


If you play on AP the first thing you will notice is that the software is very similiar to pokerstars. It was deffo designed by the same developers and therefore the capability to create a backdoor or a superuser account must also be on stars.

OK I was obviously lazy in making my initial point.

The problem is regulation. The industry currently has no incentive to move from their present situation to a more strictly monitored one. The only motivation they could have is access to the highly profitable US market and granting that access could come with the regulatory bodies which are so badly needed.

I am too tired to write a detailed post on this now but I hope I'll bother tomorrow.

RoundTower

Simplicity wrote: »

Have Cardplayer or any of the poker mags ran with these stories?

no, they wouldn't run a piece discredting their biggest advertisers.

bohsman

Hotspur - there is a risk, the likes of casinomeister and wizardoffodds have caught out casinos http://www.casinomeister.com/rogue/casinobar.php obviously the likes of 2+2 have caught out ub and ap, then theres whistleblowers, obviously strict guidelines would be far better but I dont think the situation is all that bad.

ianmc38

I do have some serious doomswitch theories!

Spiritus

hotspur wrote: »

...now where's that tinfoil hat I made.

http://zapatopi.net/afdb/

Instructions on pdf just in case you lost it.

HighFinance

RoundTower wrote: »

no, they wouldn't run a piece discredting their biggest advertisers.

http://europe.cardplayer.com/poker-news/article/ultimate-bet-confirms-suspicious-activity-investigation

Glowingmind

HighFinance wrote: »

http://europe.cardplayer.com/poker-news/article/ultimate-bet-confirms-suspicious-activity-investigation

I heard the dude who wrote that is a suspect in some grizzly saw-esque events in the sackville region.

bohsman

HighFinance wrote: »

http://europe.cardplayer.com/poker-news/article/ultimate-bet-confirms-suspicious-activity-investigation

Not exactly discrediting UB, its their side of the story only.

DeadParrot

my friends wife is a canadian mohawk.
she has seemed a little flush lately

HighFinance

bohsman wrote: »

Not exactly discrediting UB, its their side of the story only.

They were asked for further comment at the time and declined. This is all we have (bar conjecture) until they release the results of the investigation.

Further comments here - http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=195839