Who played the music??

DeVore

Unless I've missed something (which is possible!), we haven't asked the question... Who played the music that work the 4?

The point was made in Ep 7 that they have been fighting the raiders for years and they didnt have a problem slaughtering humans before. Now the 4 are awake and the raiders wont fight the fleet.

The 4 didnt realise they were cyclons until they met up, Tigh just thought someone was playing music too loud in fact!

The question is, who played the music and why?

My belief is that the music (and also Head 6 and Head Baltar and the Opera house dream) are all a signal of some kind (probably not in the normal sense of the word). It isnt random, its certainly sentient or being used by a sentient being.

In fact, it always has been shared. 6 shares a common "hallucination" with Baltar, Prez shares the dream with Boomer and others and of course the final 4 shared the sound of the music. Not to mention that Loeben and Kara shared a common hallucination of marital bliss, though I think thats not from the same source.

The music conveniently wakes up the 4 to avert their destruction at the hands of the cylons. Sounds to me like someone wanted to keep them alive and that someone is almost certainly the 5th.

So, the 5th is awake in some respect... which fits as to why they didnt show up on Galatica at the music-meetup.


One thing that strikes me is these are all shared visions and "hallucinations". Humans and Cylons both seeing the same kind of thing.
It raises the question, are the 4 actually ALL cylons?

Think about it for a minute. Humans can hear the music too, Kara and Loeben confirmed this. Tori is definitely a cylon and so is Anders. Its conceivable that the chief and Tigh are their human "partners" in terms of the signal.
They all kind of jumped to the conclusion that they were cylons with disturbing ease just because they shared an auditory hallucination.

The fact remains, someone/something understood the peril the final cylons were in and woke them up, or at least 2 of them...

So was it the 5th that played the music? I cant see any other explaination. If so, is the 5th also controling the other visions? Playing puppetmaster all round?

Hmmmmmmmmm.

DeV.

User45701

sound reasoning but i assumed the music was caused by proximity to the nebula/earth. Your theroy that the 5th is already "awake" is interesting - ive been asuming dead (billy, Kara, Shaw, Zak, Ellen) or not on galactica (Tom Zarek)

DeVore

Something is controlling things, something is making Baltar see a 6 in his head, giving the hybrid knowledge of the prez's dreams and aware enough of the tactical situation to avert a massacre.

1. It aint a human, they can't do that.
2. It aint a regular cylon, they want to kill the humans.

It must be some entity who:
1. Wants to save the humans from the unreconstructed cylons. Or at the very least, wants to save the 4 who are on Galactica.

2. Has an interest in getting them to Earth.

3. Has an interest in protecting Hera.

4. Is just as capable of manipulating cylons as they are of manipulating humans (cf: the appearance of 6's Head-Baltar!)

Cant think of many who fit that billing (presuming the basis of my conjecture is correct).

DeV.

DeVore

If the chief IS a cylon then how could he have had a baby with Boomer (who we know is a cylon)? The more I think about it, the more I believe Tigh and Tyrel are not cylons.

DeV.

User45701

oh you are right, if it was only prez seing the visions it could just be her tripping from too much Calmala but since 6 and boomer share them as well then its not the Calmala, in season 4 episode 7 i was expecting [spoier] baltar to wake up frm the dream after the prez saw him in hers [/spoiler] so there is something going on yes.

Here i am giving a FAIR warning of SPOILERS!!!! **** **** **** **** spilers **** ****
go to you tube, find a video called season 3 gag real

DO NOT WATCH IT

one of the actors says who the final cylon is, and they say its themselves i got really freaked out because its a season 3 gag real and it was spoiler the final cylon - or was it?
the actor could have been joking but as they said it the vidio flashed "warning spoilers" and it hit esc but not as quick as i would have liked

i still dont think its that charactor - too obvious and also the actors themselves might not know wh othe 5th is, but im afraid to watch past that scene in the gag real encase there is more spilers and ive been trying not to think about it because i dont want to know who the 5th is i want it revealed to be, ill still try to guess though but its more difficult after seing that but its there for anyone who wants it

I prey to the gods that its not true
(id advice spoiler taging any coments from this video in future topics) some people avoid interviews because of spoilers but i didnt expect to find any in a season 3 gag real

EDIT:

DeVore wrote: »

If the chief IS a cylon then how could he have had a baby with Boomer (who we know is a cylon)? The more I think about it, the more I believe Tigh and Tyrel are not cylons.

DeV.

Chief has his baby with cally,

Helo had his with boomer

both 1/2 cylons as far as we know

Stark

DeVore wrote: »

If the chief IS a cylon then how could he have had a baby with Boomer (who we know is a cylon)? The more I think about it, the more I believe Tigh and Tyrel are not cylons.

DeV.

The Chief didn't have a baby with Boomer. Helo had a baby with Athena and the Chief had a baby with Cally

DeVore

Ah yes... Still, my OP still remains my question (and beliefs!).

DeV.

Sad Professor

User45701, I've seen the gag reel video you mentioned and the actor in question is definitely just joking. Watch the rest and you'll see. Looks like it was filmed early in season 3 before most of the "final cylon" stuff even came up.

SP

Sherifu

It's an interesting question. It would be cool if the 5th one was controlling everything as some kind of 'cigarette smoking man' character.

Vokes

DeV, why do you think Tigh is not a Cylon?

stevenmu

User45701 wrote: »

sound reasoning but i assumed the music was caused by proximity to the nebula/earth.

Anders started to hear the music again when they went to the base ship, which does suggest it's something proximity based in that area.

Whether it's a signal in that area, or some kind of innate knowledge of earths location (possibly music they heard on earth being subconciously recalled?) I've no idea.

kowloon

I wouldn't put it past them to un-cylon one of the confirmed (in the opening titles) cylons

kevmy

Yeah I reckon it has to do with proximity, not necessarily to the Basestars or the nebula but Earth.
I think that fact that it was an Earth song (the only one we've heard in the entire series) is definitely important. I basically think that the Nebula is like one big re-transmitter than amplifies radio from Earth. Any signal from Earth would have set off the 4 (5??) it just happened to be this song.
Thats why I reckon the 5th one either wasn't on Galactica or dead.


As for the shared dreams well it's kinda fcuked up and I've no real explanation. The closest thing I can get is that Caprica 6 is necessary to have this hallucinations. She has shared all of the visions. The fact that it's Roslin, Athena and 6 (and possibly Hera to) are because of the fact that both Roslin, Athena and Hera share the same blood (Roslin got a transfusion to cure her cancer first time around). The 6 acts as some kind of beacon or signal or conduit for all of these hallucinations

User45701

sorry kevmy but i dont think so, in another topic someone told us how far away from earth the basestars where (they worked it out based on the positioning of orions belt)

Anyway assuming your right the song would take a very long time to reach that far, that would mean that when they reach earth its either going to be a very advanced civilisation or else an extinct advanced civisilation.

Im going to go with a very very old and also primitive ruins, i dont think earth in the BSG verse advanced far enough to produce that song. I think the song is random rather than actually being from earth.

Stark

User45701 wrote: »

sorry kevmy but i dont think so, in another topic someone told us how far away from earth the basestars where (they worked it out based on the positioning of orions belt)

Anyway assuming your right the song would take a very long time to reach that far, that would mean that when they reach earth its either going to be a very advanced civilisation or else an extinct advanced civisilation.

They calculated the distance as 400 AUs. That's only 53 light hours from Earth.

User45701

Hmm then its possible when they reach earth it will be somewhere near present day?when was that song released + 53 years? but having a concept of time when the methology of the show is that everything repeats over and over with different players having different cards why was it not a different singer but the same song?

Stark

Light hours, not years.

DeVore

I have no reason to believe Tigh isnt a cylon, I'm just thinking a few things through here.

I found it a touch weird that they simply jumped to the conclusion that they were all cylons. It kind of got glossed over so quickly that I got suspicious and I'm trying to see if it makes sense that maybe they arent cylons. It does seem to fit but the writers could just as easily gloss on by and they really will be 4.
It just strikes me as the kind of twist they like to do...

DeV.

Praetorian

DeVore wrote: »

I have no reason to believe Tigh isnt a cylon, I'm just thinking a few things through here.

I found it a touch weird that they simply jumped to the conclusion that they were all cylons. It kind of got glossed over so quickly that I got suspicious and I'm trying to see if it makes sense that maybe they arent cylons. It does seem to fit but the writers could just as easily gloss on by and they really will be 4.
It just strikes me as the kind of twist they like to do...

DeV.

Well Tori did seem to have beyond human strength and Anders did get scanned by the Raiders. I suppose Tyrol and Tigh haven't done anything unusual yet have they?

fitz

On the Tori strength thing....we don't know that for sure, it was a funny angle, and they were in an airlock...potentially slightly less gravity?

DeV, this is something I mentioned a while ago.
I don't believe the final five are skinjobs. I think they're descendants of the 13th colony humans or lords of kobol. I think the visions, head 6, head baltar, the music, the development of the cylons, everything is being manipulated by some third party...I suspect the 13th colony/lords of kobol, or the original inhabitants of Earth.

I really wish everyone would stop thinking of the final five as skinjobs. There's absolutely no evidence to support it, when you think about it. Where did the "fact" that there were 12 cylon skinjob models come from? The skinjobs. If the cylons are being manipulated externally, which I think it's pretty clear they are, as much as the humans, then it's likely that things they hold as "fact" could have been put there in their programming.

DeVore

Anders definitely got scanned though, he isnt human.

DeV.

kowloon

As for the choice of song, Moore has said that it was chosen for its merits as a song and not because Dylan is the final cylon :pac:.
I don't know how much thought they put into the choice, but it could be interpreted a few ways.
Starbuck and Apollo are flying side by side at the end. The song has two riders approaching as agents of change.
Then again, I have had an entire bottle of toilet duck and the hallucinations are peaking so you may want to take this with a grain of salt.

fitz

DeVore wrote: »

Anders definitely got scanned though, he isnt human.

DeV.

Not necessarily. Depends on what was scanned for. If the Cylons are being manipulated, their criteria for recognising the 5 may have been given to them. Most of what we think we know about the 5 is based on what the Cylons believe to be fact, which I'm not willing to accept as fact just yet.

kevmy

kowloon wrote: »

As for the choice of song, Moore has said that it was chosen for its merits as a song and not because Dylan is the final cylon :pac:.
I don't know how much thought they put into the choice, but it could be interpreted a few ways.
Starbuck and Apollo are flying side by side at the end. The song has two riders approaching as agents of change.
Then again, I have had an entire bottle of toilet duck and the hallucinations are peaking so you may want to take this with a grain of salt.

I'm not really looking to deeply into the specific song but more to the fact that it is an Earth song and as far as I can recall the only (relatively) contemporary earth song used in BSG

Stark

fitz wrote: »

Not necessarily. Depends on what was scanned for. If the Cylons are being manipulated, their criteria for recognising the 5 may have been given to them. Most of what we think we know about the 5 is based on what the Cylons believe to be fact, which I'm not willing to accept as fact just yet.

Well, we (the viewers) did see Ander's eye glow red in response and I did rewind to double check that it wasn't just reflection.

fitz

We can't possibly be sure that it wasn't reflection, or an effect of the scan.

Stark

Watch it again. His eye flashed red after the Raider's red beam had passed it. And if it was an effect of the scan, then doesn't that prove he wasn't human? Because human eyes sure don't flash red in response to external stimuli. (Not without a good bit of painful damage anyway).

fitz

It doesn't prove anything. We don't know what the scan technology is, so we can't say what effect it has or doesn't have. I remember his eye flashing, but I'm choosing not to put too much importance in it, as it's something the writers can easily gloss over.

The other argment is that the colony humans aren't actually humans anyway. That they were created by the humans on Earth, and established themselves on Kobol...

User45701

Stark wrote: »

Well, we (the viewers) did see Ander's eye glow red in response and I did rewind to double check that it wasn't just reflection.

fitz wrote: »

We can't possibly be sure that it wasn't reflection, or an effect of the scan.

Well i thought it was a reflection until i went to the boards topic and everyone thought it was anders eye

fitz wrote: »

It doesn't prove anything. We don't know what the scan technology is, so we can't say what effect it has or doesn't have. I remember his eye flashing, but I'm choosing not to put too much importance in it, as it's something the writers can easily gloss over.

The other argment is that the colony humans aren't actually humans anyway. That they were created by the humans on Earth, and established themselves on Kobol...

then they forgot they where cylons created there own cylons long after they abonded kobol

Hyzepher

When I was watching it I was wondering why the Raiders were so against fighting the humans once they realised the Final 5 were aboard Galactica - surely if they died they would simply resurrect on one of the base ships.

The thing I find weird is why would the final 5 be aboard the Galactica when there would be a very high risk of some of them dying and not being resurrected. The only conclusion I can come to is that the final 5 were not decided until they were needed. As if the final 5 were important but not set in stone as to who they were. However, if this was true then all the humans would have to be cylons of one shape or other. Which I suppose could be true since we are always been told that things have happened before and will again - it could be possible that humanity is no more then an ancient cylon race that have human abilities but can be manipulated as cylons (switched on) at any point.

User45701

Hyzepher wrote: »

When I was watching it I was wondering why the Raiders were so against fighting the humans once they realised the Final 5 were aboard Galactica - surely if they died they would simply resurrect on one of the base ships.

The final 5 cant/dont ressurect t the ressurection ships because there are no bodies for them to download into there.

Dr. Baltar

I have a feeling that the music is going to play a very important role in the series in the future.

kevmy

Hyzepher wrote: »

When I was watching it I was wondering why the Raiders were so against fighting the humans once they realised the Final 5 were aboard Galactica - surely if they died they would simply resurrect on one of the base ships.

The thing I find weird is why would the final 5 be aboard the Galactica when there would be a very high risk of some of them dying and not being resurrected. The only conclusion I can come to is that the final 5 were not decided until they were needed. As if the final 5 were important but not set in stone as to who they were. However, if this was true then all the humans would have to be cylons of one shape or other. Which I suppose could be true since we are always been told that things have happened before and will again - it could be possible that humanity is no more then an ancient cylon race that have human abilities but can be manipulated as cylons (switched on) at any point.

It's not that weird that the 5 (or at least 4 of them) are on Galactica. I mean where else would they be they can't be with the Cylons as they are not supposed to talk about/interact with the 5. As for odds of the 5 being on Galactica, you could argue that Tori isn't stationed on Galcatica and Anders was just picked up along that way and was not a Colonial officer.

Also if the 5 are there to make sure the fleet get to Earth where the hell else would they be???

DeVore

Skillz......................... I gots them.


DeV.

microgirl

DeVore wrote: »

Skillz......................... I gots them.


DeV.

Coming late to the party as I'm only just now caught up on the end of S3 and S4...

...I dunno, it still could be that somehow what the Cylons have been searching for all along has finally happened. It's still not proof of being or not-being a Cylon (though I admit it's a good dose of circumstantial evidence ) But especially when we're talking about one of the supposed "final Five", who everyone pretty much accepts have to be something different, special, important.

Also the impression I got from the initial meet-up of the Four wasn't that they just decided they were Cylons once they saw each other, but that at that point they *knew* they were Cylons, whether they wanted to believe it or not.

Slutmonkey57b

DeVore wrote: »

I have no reason to believe Tigh isnt a cylon, I'm just thinking a few things through here.

I found it a touch weird that they simply jumped to the conclusion that they were all cylons. It kind of got glossed over so quickly that I got suspicious and I'm trying to see if it makes sense that maybe they arent cylons. It does seem to fit but the writers could just as easily gloss on by and they really will be 4.
It just strikes me as the kind of twist they like to do...

DeV.

As series 4 progresses, I'm getting the impression more and more that the writers are simply putting in what they have to rather than what makes any kind of logical sense, or that they're capable of putting in false leads. The writing is certainly not on a par with previous series. While the episodes are good, everything feels like a set up rather than a progression of events. Maybe that's to do with the final season being extended beyond the originally planned number of episodes, there wouldn't be such a sense of dragging out the inevitable if that weren't the case.

I think the major problem they've run into is that having announced the final 4 at the end of series 3, they now have to spin it out during season 4 because clearly the 4 aren't going to allow themselves to be revealed until right at the end.

DeVore

I dont know... I see where you are coming from (you filthy simian!) but the depth of clue they left with the Hamlet quotation in the previous episode makes me think that perhaps they are more on the ball then we think...

At this point, half way through with all the loose ends dangling, its hard to tell if they are just making a break for home or if they have woven a very complex tapestry.

DeV.

kowloon

DeVore wrote: »

At this point, half way through with all the loose ends dangling, its hard to tell if they are just making a break for home or if they have woven a very complex tapestry.

DeV.

The latter preferably. As opposed to Lost; I've given up all hope that they're not making up most of that as they go along. At least BSG has a plan :pac:.

wet-paint

I thinks y'all need to read the blog of the composer, Bear McCreary.
It's bloody insightful.
http://www.bearmccreary.com/blog/

Talisman

Having watched episode 4x10 it seems that the source of the transmission that the four picked up was ....

Starbuck's spanking new Viper

leinsterman

Talisman wrote: »

Starbuck's spanking new Viper

I'm not certain that is 100% accurate ... it is more:

The Viper is picking up the signal from elsewhere

Which is more supportive of DeVore's original point ... which I find very incisive ...

I don't agree fully however ... I believe the 4 are all Cylons and in fact what we are witnessing is

the birth of a completly new species (a human/Cylon hybrid) and the death of two older ones (the humans and the cylons) ... back to my biblical point in the previous thread about the 12 tribes of Isreal ... all were destroyed except a 13th new one as far as I know (and my knowledge of the bible is somewhat poor TBH, so please correct) ... this 13th was a combination of two other tribes

leinsterman

The final Cylon could in fact be

Dave Fanning

... given his penchant for playing Dylan songs ...