An alternative to Smoke Grenades?

kdouglas

As posted on my blog;

A common problem here in the south of Ireland that makes us envy our Northern brethren airsofters is the lack of pyrotechnics which we can employ during an airsoft skirmish. A few flashbangs and a bit of smoke could really add to the combat atmosphere, especially for milsim events. Unfortunately under Irish law these devices are classed as pyrotechnics and require a licence and permission to import and use. Obtaining a licence for their use is not a simple matter either, even when importing pyrotechnics there is a raft of paperwork which must be filled out and you must specify the date, time and location in which the devices will be used, not exactly useful for airsoft use.

About a year back I created a small ventilated metal cylinder, about the approximate size of a hand grenade, into which you could place smoke pellets which can be bought in Joke Shops and Novelty Stores across Ireland. This worked moderately OK in a CQB environment, but ignition was always a problem. Even fuses are a restricted item in Ireland!! I had tried several experiments making homemade fuses from the sulphur scraped from match heads, some string and super glue, it never really worked particularly well and was far too time consuming to ever be a realistic option.

Sparked by a recent thread on boards.ie about legal options for smoke grenades I decided to do some searching on ebay. I was initially looking for industrial grade smoke pellets which I could build a new holder around and I came across these ph Smoke Matches, could these be a potential solution to the ignition problem? They appeared to light just like matches and had an extended head which would give off smoke when burned.

These arrived today and I immediately decided to give them a test, lighting one by hand at first, I didn't expect much from a single match but had hoped that perhaps lighting several would provide a decent amount of smoke. A small amount of smoke was produced which was quickly blown away by the moderately light wind which is blowing in my back garden.

I then decided to try a whole box (12) at once. This gave off a good deal more smoke but still not enough to ever be considered a really viable alternative to pyrotechnic smoke grenades. Perhaps in an indoor CQB environment they might prove slightly more useful perhaps with using several boxes of them simultaneously, but care must still be taken as when lighting several together, there is quite a large flame which burns for several seconds.

I'll let the video speak for itself on how they looked:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZypQi3lRsA

So that's it for those, back to the drawing board for a legal alternative to smoke grenades in Ireland.

Puding

i can not really see them being practical reliable or safe but that might just be me

kdouglas

Puding wrote: »

i can not really see them being practical reliable or safe but that might just be me

exactly. They're definitely not a good alternative

NakedDex

The only thing I can see those being any use for is possibly marking a position you're at to call in reinforcements or maybe as part of an objective device. The smoke just doesn't seem dense enough.

Masada

Ive actually found a perfectly legal alternative to smoke grenades (probably even better than the usual smokes) that is on sale in ireland at the moment (although not its intended use). Im gonna pick one up and try it out in HRTA if its cool with paul and i just wanna clear it with the mods etc so i dont get banned for posting it.,:)

bullets

vtec wrote: »

Ive actually found a perfectly legal alternative to smoke grenades (probably even better than the usual smokes) that is on sale in ireland at the moment (although not its intended use). Im gonna pick one up and try it out in HRTA if its cool with paul and i just wanna clear it with the mods etc so i dont get banned for posting it.,:)

You got me curious! can you PM me the info?

The Matches KD posted about look like the wind proof ones you get in the
survival kits in the army stores. (Which I never found any good for lighting stuff)

~B

Masada

no probs bullets, i cleared the situation with paul earlier today and hopefully we'll see them in play soon., im gonna pick up some on saturday if i can.,

bullets

Dont have any links to where you can buy these online do yo?
or what they are officially called so I can google them.

~B

Masada

no i dont have the used one anymore and i have no idea what their called., I'll ask hrta paul on sat, he knows a bit about them., or if hes online he might post in here.,:)

monksavage

Lad dont you know its illegal to make pyros in ireland? I wont be calling the cops this time tho
But if you really wana ya can just buy heavy smoke pellets from a builders providers, plumbers use em for testing chimney flues.

Masada

monksavage wrote: »

Lad dont you know its illegal to make pyros in ireland?

as i said,.,;)

Vtec wrote:

Ive actually found a perfectly legal alternative to smoke grenades

and pyro's arnt illegal, just restricted,.

IRISH RAIL

We have been here before about smoke

ph standard smoke 40 secs burn 18 cu mtrs of smoke per pellet
produced to iso 9002 standards

sounds fun yea ?
iritating to eyes, do not breathe smoke etc warnings on the side. they burn so where you put them is an issue.
Insurance queries anyone.

Spitfire666

or what if you trip and fall over on a tuft of grass thats slightly too high, or step in a puddle and get your socks wet........

People need to go and play snap or something if they are going to be worrying about every little thing that could be bad for them.

If they are legal and a site allows them, then that should be enough for anyone. if you dont like them then dont play at that site.

Masada

Spitfire666 wrote: »

or what if you trip and fall over on a tuft of grass thats slightly too high, or step in a puddle and get your socks wet........

People need to go and play snap or something if they are going to be worrying about every little thing that could be bad for them.

If they are legal and a site allows them, then that should be enough for anyone. if you dont like them then dont play at that site.

Amen to that!.,;)

kdouglas

Spitfire666 wrote: »

or what if you trip and fall over on a tuft of grass thats slightly too high, or step in a puddle and get your socks wet........

People need to go and play snap or something if they are going to be worrying about every little thing that could be bad for them.

If they are legal and a site allows them, then that should be enough for anyone. if you dont like them then dont play at that site.

Well there could be a slight problem with asthma sufferers or people with other breathing problems, so perhaps a quick shout around to players at the start of a game to let them know you have smoke and intend to use it would be a good idea?

Masada

kdouglas wrote: »

Well there could be a slight problem with asthma sufferers or people with other breathing problems, so perhaps a quick shout around to players at the start of a game to let them know you have smoke and intend to use it would be a good idea?

yeah but think about them corpo fellas that do be out on the street cutting up the road with con saws or even the tarmac, thats some toxic sh*t but hey, we have to live with it.,lol, car exhaust fumes are even worse., Im just afraid that if we start putting in precautions about their use it will make them seem dangerous when there not and probably lead to us not being allowed to use them.,:(

IRISH RAIL

now let me clear up something im not the party pooper
I want to use them 5 in a tube with holes in it is perfect some matcheads n the lid and thats a perfect fuse all legal

but theres always someone who moans and then it fcuks it up for us danger loving airsofters

Spitfire666

wasn't snapping directly at you IRISH RAIL, was just snapping at the moaners in general.

wont asthma sufferers be able to just move away from the smoke?
Its not like they will have to sit beside it if the dont want to.

At the end of the day there is enough sites around for the moaners to piss off to if they don't like how a site is run.

Its the same as people who moan about getting hit in the face yet they choose not to wear a full face maskbut thats off topic so wont go there.

Gatling

vtec wrote: »

yeah but think about them corpo fellas that do be out on the street cutting up the road with con saws or even the tarmac, thats some toxic sh*t but hey, we have to live with it.,lol, car exhaust fumes are even worse., Im just afraid that if we start putting in precautions about their use it will make them seem dangerous when there not and probably lead to us not being allowed to use them.,:(

well safety comes first over anything ,precautions are there to protect people,

and there's too many variables as to cover ,different breating problems affect in different ways , and then telling those with problem to take there business else where is pretty stupid ,
isnt it the site thats make decisions not the players

Masada

Gatling wrote: »

well safety comes first over anything ,precautions are there to protect people,

and there's too many variables as to cover ,different breating problems affect in different ways , and then telling those with problem to take there business else where is pretty stupid ,
isnt it the site thats make decisions not the players

well these people (including myself and i dont complain) should stay at home incase the breeze makes them cold or something, its supposed to be a war!
if its harmfull its illegal and my ones are neither harmfull or illegal, not only that but the site owner is more than happy to allow them on site,.,;)

next we'll be banning people from smoking in site coz the people with breathing probs dont want passive smoke.,

Spitfire666

there are variables in every thing you could imagine up to make the sport better,

playing in the rain, what if it shorts out your gun and you get a shock or you trip and land on a rock or.....

Gatling

i absolutely love the idea of smokes and and noise ,dont get me wrong ,
but lines have to be drawn for safety ,there's not one site that can deal with any problems arising for people reacting to smoke ,or if a mammy or daddy thinks little johnny comes home saying he was gased at a site ,and go screaming to the HSA what then ,they come in and set the rules

Masada

the same applies to anything, what if "little Jonney" stands on a pallet with a nail and needs a tetnis injection, or if little joney cantracts foot and mouth or mad sheep disease, hell little jonney might break his ankle comming out of the office on the steps.,

in fact, this little jonney fuker seems to cause a lot of trouble, lets only let pauls, toms and davids play from now on.,

Spitfire666

so far, as long as it is legal, the site owners dictate the rules and smokes are allowed if legal so that should be the end of it.

Masada

Spitfire666 wrote: »

so far, as long as it is legal, the site owners dictate the rules and smokes are allowed if legal so that should be the end of it.

+1!

IRISH RAIL

and little johnny isnt allowed in because he is too young

kdouglas

lads, this thread was supposed to be about a legal alternative to smoke grenades, it is not about the safety issues or whether or not they are a good idea in general.


Back on topic please

Masada

yeah i agree,
unfortunatey i didnt get the chance to pick up any smokes but i was talking to a few of the lads in hrta today and they were very interested in grabbing some., should have them in time for wednesday or hopefully sat.,:) will report back with results.,

kdouglas

vtec wrote: »

yeah i agree,
unfortunatey i didnt get the chance to pick up any smokes but i was talking to a few of the lads in hrta today and they were very interested in grabbing some., should have them in time for wednesday or hopefully sat.,:) will report back with results.,

grab a couple for me too

Spitfire666

i'm going to try and grab some of these too. i had planned on getting these a few times to try them out but the place was closed whenever i was around to grab some and i kept forgetting. its a great idea if they work out well and are not too expensive.

Masada

I think they supposed to be about 5-10squid each., i got the one i tried out for free so im not 100% sure on the price,.,

JonAnderton

Sorry... I must have missed it... what are 'They' we're talking about????

IRISH RAIL

any plumbers shop diy heatmerchants have them

I get a box of 50 every few weeks

kdouglas

IRISH RAIL wrote: »

any plumbers shop diy heatmerchants have them

I get a box of 50 every few weeks

That's not what "they" is

Masada

ROFL.,

knifey_spoonie

Is this what ye are on about, or is it something different




If i go into the local builders merchants what do i ask for

Thanks

Spitfire666

dont go to a builders merchant for a start........... or do, could be funny.
Is it okay to reveal what "they" are or shall we have a bit more fun first and keep people geussing?

I think bray is the cheapest place to get them in around dublin. could be wrong on that though.

Masada

Spitfire666 wrote: »

dont go to a builders merchant for a start........... or do, could be funny.
Is it okay to reveal what "they" are or shall we have a bit more fun first and keep people geussing?

I think bray is the cheapest place to get them in around dublin. could be wrong on that though.

The idea is so the shops dont get spooked by the amount of people comming in to buy them and then decide not to give them to us. also its quite funny too.,:D lol

Fallschirmjager

its obvious...smoke 9000 ciggies in one go....

silver haze

what a bunch of elitist tossers some people can be.
why do you bother comming on here bragging about what ye know and can get if youre not goin to share it with ohers, is that not the point of message boards.
i suppose you would also like to keep airsoft as your own little secret as well.
does it give you an inflated sense of well being to feel in some way superiour to the "lesser mortals" on here.

this makes me sick to my back teeth.

Rew

Right lets all calm down, its obvious there is some joking going on between a few people here so no need to lose the cool.

Lads cop on and spit it out what you talking about instead of all the "they" BS.

kdouglas

silver haze wrote: »

what a bunch of elitist tossers some people can be.
why do you bother comming on here bragging about what ye know and can get if youre not goin to share it with ohers, is that not the point of message boards.
i suppose you would also like to keep airsoft as your own little secret as well.
does it give you an inflated sense of well being to feel in some way superiour to the "lesser mortals" on here.

this makes me sick to my back teeth.

I'd like to remind you that the original purpose of this thread was merely a report of my own experiments with smoke matches as an alternative to pyro smoke grenades, an experiment which failed due to the small amount of smoke put out by smoke matches. As Rew said, there's a bit of a joke between individuals in this thread about what "they" are, a PM to vtec who originally posted about it would have been sufficient for you to find out.

Stercus Accidit

silver haze wrote: »

what a bunch of elitist tossers some people can be.
why do you bother comming on here bragging about what ye know and can get if youre not goin to share it with ohers, is that not the point of message boards.
i suppose you would also like to keep airsoft as your own little secret as well.
does it give you an inflated sense of well being to feel in some way superiour to the "lesser mortals" on here.

this makes me sick to my back teeth.

silver haze

kdouglas wrote: »

I'd like to remind you that the original purpose of this thread was merely a report of my own experiments with smoke matches as an alternative to pyro smoke grenades, an experiment which failed due to the small amount of smoke put out by smoke matches. As Rew said, there's a bit of a joke between individuals in this thread about what "they" are, a PM to vtec who originally posted about it would have been sufficient for you to find out.

thats fair enough but i was undet the impression that this was a public discussion forum, not a place for smug little boys t gloat over how clever they are.

Motosam wrote: »

well arent you a clever little lad, instead of crafting an anyway useful, intelligent or mature response, youve decided to use google immages to show the world just how smart you are, like i said said some people are just pretentious tossers.....present company excluded....of course

back on topic, the builders smoke "bombs" are a little ineffective, but when a good few are crushed up and mixed together in an appropriate container along with an ignition device they can be somewhat effective for indoor use.

Stercus Accidit

silver haze wrote: »

well arent you a clever little lad, instead of crafting an anyway useful, intelligent or mature response, youve decided to use google immages to show the world just how smart you are, like i said said some people are just pretentious tossers.....present company excluded....of course

Little?

Oh you're condescending me, how quaint...

And smart, well crafted responses are wasted on dullards, so you didn't get one.

I assumed you'd understand a pictorial response though.

silver haze

Motosam wrote: »

Little?

Oh you're condescending me, how quaint...

And smart, well crafted responses are wasted on dullards, so you didn't get one.

I assumed you'd understand a pictorial response though.

wow you really have noting of value to contribute here, maybe you should post in AH, they might be more "your" kind of people

Stercus Accidit

silver haze wrote: »

wow you really have noting of value to contribute here, maybe you should post in AH, they might be more "your" kind of people

"oh sarcasm"

Get up out of it, I'm satisfied that you've lost here, so I'll no longer continue to feed your "trolling" lol, very poor at that.

"go to AH" good god, and you would try to imply I am stupid? lol

Yeah, I'm not replying again, that last retort of yours was nearly the end of me, gasp!

Fallschirmjager

so i take it its not 9000 ciggies....jeeze i was sure that was it....

Genghiz Cohen

Great to see the infighting is back again.
I missed the first bout of it, but thaks to Motosam for bringing it roaring back.

Fallschirmjager

9752 ciggies then...or 53, no 54,55??

click below to find out I KNOW I KNOW IT!!!!

jeasus its just smoke

silver haze

Motosam wrote: »

"oh sarcasm"

Get up out of it, I'm satisfied that you've lost here, so I'll no longer continue to feed your "trolling" lol, very poor at that.

"go to AH" good god, and you would try to imply I am stupid? lol

Yeah, I'm not replying again, that last retort of yours was nearly the end of me, gasp!

"lost"??? maybe in your mind this is some little game, to me its just a discussion, supposidly one where people can glean information from what they see on the screen.

i think youd better look up the definition of a troll there boy, to me its some one who has no interest in helping but just provoking arguments with inflamatory posts i.e. your pathetic little picture.
now f*ck back to your little bridge, unless you have a worthwhile contribution to make.

i appologise to all that this has gone completely off topic.

now back to the smoke bombs, i dont think that smoking a load of fags would do it to be honest, but what does the boards charter define as pyros cos there are a lot of things out there thay will burn and produce smoke but are they pyros????