Manners anyone?

Velvet Vocals

Ok, let me start this post by saying that I've been a member of boards since 2002. I'm now a full subscriber and I love boards, I really do. But over the years one thing has always bugged me. Mods.... they are so impolite!
Seriously... stop laughing....
There are maybe 2 times I've been instructed to do something by a mod where I didn't think "How rude"
I'm sure being a mod can be stressful and you have to deal with hot heads or whatever, but surely some manors wouldn't hurt. If you need to ask someone to move a post or if someone is posting something that is inappropriate, surely you have a way of determining if they're pis*takers or if they're making a genuine mistake? And shouldn't you then respond accordingly.
Would you mind... I'm not sure if you realised.... thanks... please... these are phrases that should be used more regularly.

I really don't want to sound like I'm getting at all mods or anything,I do understand that a job has to be done and I'm sure in the majority of cases it could just a time saver issue, but there are some cases where I've actually felt insulted.
I've always held back on saying this for fear of a big fight or being banned or something. But it's just got to the stage now where I and some other boardians (who shall remain user-nameless) are fed up with being at the blunt end of a rude pm/post when a mistake is made.

Anyway, I do hope that this feedback will be received with the intension's in which is was sent and that it is just that, feeback.

Kind regards,

VV

_blank_

Links to back this up please.

Nice generalisation about ALL mods btw.

That's a sure fire way to make progress.

biko

It's been discussed before and it is indeed true, some mods can be quite rude.
I can only assume that they have seen the issue at hand many times before and are rolling their eyes as they click the lock button.

Xavi6

I haven't had the opportunity to be rude to anyone as a mod yet so am highly insulted by your generalistion.

But when that opportunity arises.......

javaboy

Mods don't have any mansions, chateaux, villas or condos either.


Pedantry aside, links?

StonedParadoX

personally

if i was a mod and i saw this thread i'd just ignore him and go on with my life

it aint worth the hassle dealing with this kind of folk

expecting everything and anything to be polite and anal with all and anyways

monkeyfudge

I think all the mods should be given manors.

6th

Ok Mods, roll out! Lets each ask the OP, one at a time, where you personally have been impolite.

Velvet, when have I ever been impolite?

javaboy

monkeyfudge wrote: »

I think all the mods should be given manors.

Even HMods? Chalets maybe.

Dord

You can say the same about posters in general, or even people in general. Some are nice, some aren't. But that's life.

Dord

javaboy wrote: »

Even HMods? Chalets maybe.

Portacabins. :pac:

Sherifu

Nevyn

I'd love one, assuming it was self sufficent.

The things is that mods should not have to tell posters to behave as they should be posting with in the remit of the charter and the site rules and ergo they should not need a warning and the fact they do can be irksome to mods.

No if you have a specific complain then I suggest that you link if possible or if offending communication is via pm consider starting a help desk thread and get an smod to review your pms.

cornbb

Its true, some mods can appear very rude when they need to put their "mod hats" on. Some mods let the power get to their heads, puff their chests out and act all hoity toity.

Its a big generalisation though, I've seen many mods who are utter ladies/gents when locking a thread or steering a thread back on topic or whatever. Bear in mind that being firm or cutting to the chase (often necessary) can also be mistaken for rudeness.

Xavi6

Does this mean we get to have the Little Hitler avatars again? I love that little guy.

Winters

Sometimes I dont even need my mod hat on to be impolite...

RuailleBuaille

OP I fully agree with you about at leat ONE mod, I pm'd her recently with a query to which I got a four word reply which was as plain as day already. When I pm'd back clarifying my question and asking for clarification from her, she blanked me completely. She generally comes across as a very unfriendly but I was really surprised by the unneccessary rudeness. Who else do you go to for help if not the mod of the forum in question? Childish, ridiculous behaviour, some mods are so cliquey it feels like I'm back in school all over again.
[insert preferred rolleyes here]
To be fair though, there are only TWO mods I've come across that behave this way, the rest (in the forums I frequent anyway) aren't a bad lot.
Just my dha phingin.

Ruu_Old

If those bastid registered users have some manners then mods wouldn't have to be impolite. Driving us to mental health clinics daily. :mad:

I haven't had to be impolite to many users but have received some guff from users from threads I may have locked or deleted, etc. Different mods deal with things different ways.

Velvet Vocals

Well there's a surprise... p*ss takers on spelling. Good pics though!

Seriously I am sorry about the genralising, of course I didn't mean that ALL mods are rude or have been rude to me in the past. What I will say is though that since I've been a member I have had several times where I either posted something in the wrong place or posted up something that wasn't supposed to be discussed on boards, or whatever... made a mistake and just a gruff or rude response from a mod. Now I'm not going to go trough old posts and old pm's for details and the most recent one that prompted me to post up isn't worth getting into a row about. My point for posting up was not start a he said, she said argument but to point out that this has been my experience and hope that others who may have experienced this too would speak out and that maybe mods... not all, but some.... who may have been a bit rude in the past would think about the way they address people. Thats all. I'm really not trying to start a whole big deal.
But to be honest... I'm unsurprised by the replies I've gotten so far!

Xavi6

Name and shame tbh

Velvet Vocals

RuailleBuaille wrote: »

OP I fully agree with you about at leat ONE mod, I pm'd her recently with a query to which I got a four word reply which was as plain as day already. When I pm'd back clarifying my question and asking for clarification from her, she blanked me completely. She generally comes across as an ignorant b*tch but I was really surprised by the unneccessary rudeness. Who else do you go to for help if not the mod of the forum in question? Childish, ridiculous behaviour, some mods are so cliquey it feels like I'm back in school all over again.
[insert preferred rolleyes here]
To be fair though, there are only TWO mods I've come across that behave this way, the rest (in the forums I frequent anyway) aren't a bad lot.
Just my dha phingin.

I think I know of whom you speak! [insert preferred rolleyes here]

But you're right, most of the chats I've had with mods have been great and like I said before its not ALL MODS obviously! Just a few
Thanks for your response!

Velvet Vocals

Winters wrote: »

Sometimes I dont even need my mod hat on to be impolite...

fair enough

Velvet Vocals

Xavi6 wrote: »

I haven't had the opportunity to be rude to anyone as a mod yet so am highly insulted by your generalistion.

But when that opportunity arises.......

I really am sorry about generalising!

Rb

Sherifu wrote: »

This is actually pretty solid imo.

Dades

Mods aren't real people, you see.

They're soylent green.

Velvet Vocals

StonedParadoX wrote: »

expecting everything and anything to be polite and anal with all and anyways

I don't expect everyone and everything to be polite all the time... the majority of the time would be nice though. And certainly in a situation like boards, where you're reading and might not always have the tone of voice that the message was intended correct, surely it doesn't cost much to be nice? But then I'm all to aware that this is just too much for some people

Velvet Vocals

Dades wrote: »

Mods aren't real people, you see.

They're soylent green.

Oh.... you see, now if I'd know that... well then there you go. That explains it all. Sorry to have bothered you:)


*Thinks, now all I need is a time machine to get to 2022*

Rb

OP: To be honest with ya, I have to disagree. Any time I've had to interact with a moderator on more than a user to user basis, they've always been polite.

Take Terrys last pm to me for example

Terry wrote:

Hi Rb,

How are you?Lovely weather we're having these days, isn't it?
I just thought I'd drop you a pm as a post of yours was reported, you know how it is, not everybody will take things the same way, and I was wondering if you could possibly refrain from calling those with inferior minds 'retards' as it appears to be upsetting some of them and I've had a few complaints to deal with. I realise it is quite an appropriate term for them, but you know yourself, some people will get offended by anything these days, so do try to keep it to a minimum.

Hope all is well,
Your number 1 fan,

Terrance

Nesf in particular is a shining example of a good/fair/polite/nice moderator so don't tar them all with the same brush, like all walks of life there'll be a few bad apples but they'll get their comeuppance.

cornbb

Velvet Vocals wrote: »

Well there's a surprise... p*ss takers on spelling. Good pics though!

Seriously I am sorry about the genralising, of course I didn't mean that ALL mods are rude or have been rude to me in the past. What I will say is though that since I've been a member I have had several times where I either posted something in the wrong place or posted up something that wasn't supposed to be discussed on boards, or whatever... made a mistake and just a gruff or rude response from a mod. Now I'm not going to go trough old posts and old pm's for details and the most recent one that prompted me to post up isn't worth getting into a row about. My point for posting up was not start a he said, she said argument but to point out that this has been my experience and hope that others who may have experienced this too would speak out and that maybe mods... not all, but some.... who may have been a bit rude in the past would think about the way they address people. Thats all. I'm really not trying to start a whole big deal.
But to be honest... I'm unsurprised by the replies I've gotten so far!

I can see where you're coming from... just to be clear, are you sure you aren't confusing mods with "people who've been here for years and post here rather a lot"? Cause there tends to be an awful lot of overlap between the 2 groups on boards.

And FWIW the whole pedantry around spelling mistakes annoys the crap out of me too, and I knew it would happen as soon as I saw the thread title. Someone who posts just to make fun of someone else's spelling mistakes always looks faaar worse than the person who's mistake they're pointing out, even if that person is a naked idiot rereg spam-troll...

...rant over.

Velvet Vocals

rb_ie wrote: »

OP: To be honest with ya, I have to disagree. Any time I've had to interact with a moderator on more than a user to user basis, they've always been polite.

Take Terrys last pm to me for example



Nesf in particular is a shining example of a good/fair/polite/nice moderator so don't tar them all with the same brush, like all walks of life there'll be a few bad apples but they'll get their comeuppance.

Good lord... now that is polite and nice! You see, thats the way I'd like to be spoken to.

Velvet Vocals

6th wrote: »

Ok Mods, roll out! Lets each ask the OP, one at a time, where you personally have been impolite.

Velvet, when have I ever been impolite?

Thanks for your concern 6th, but you're off the hook... I'll keep you on the Christmas card list... just watch your step!:)

Velvet Vocals

Joe Robot wrote: »

You can say the same about posters in general, or even people in general. Some are nice, some aren't. But that's life.

Fair point.... I'm really starting to regret posting this now [insert preferred rolleyes here]

Overheal

In response to the preferred rolleyes:



In regard to te rude mods: yesh. I've encountered a few. But I've also encountered some good ones when being beraded or PM'd (and you know who you are and you know who you aren't). In a couple of those cases yeah, they just come off as muppets with sticks. In once or two cases though the mod will even take the time to explain their position, so even coming off as bitchy its easy to see what they put up with and where you stand.

Anyway rudeness begets rudeness and all that. Its when you're polite with a mod and they're still being the same cúnt about it that it can really get on your nerves. Tempted though I am to name names, that would just be rude.

Karl Hungus

Velvet Vocals wrote: »

You see, thats the way I'd like to be spoken to.

So you want your warnings sugar-coated? "Pretty please, don't spam if it isn't too much trouble for you, thanks very very much, I'm eternally in your debt." and so forth?

Now, don't think this as rude, but the mods aren't here to hold a user's hand, treat everyone with kid gloves, and be super-nice even to the most brash individuals. I certainly don't try to be rude if I have to hand out a warning, but unfortunately it's a warning, not a polite request, and it has to be clear and get the point across.

Nailz

rb_ie wrote: »

OP: To be honest with ya, I have to disagree. Any time I've had to interact with a moderator on more than a user to user basis, they've always been polite.

Take Terrys last pm to me for example

Nesf in particular is a shining example of a good/fair/polite/nice moderator so don't tar them all with the same brush, like all walks of life there'll be a few bad apples but they'll get their comeuppance.

Thats manners, but you lot are only polite to each other! Only messing! But it's only the few mods that do be rude, I notice the likes of Xavi, PHB, Karl and the few do be quite mannerly. Karl for one thanked me straight after digging out shìt on the music forum to clean up. So I don't agree completely with the generalisation of them, but I think a few can brush up.

tbh

Karl Hungus wrote: »

Now, don't think this as rude, but the mods aren't here to hold a user's hand, treat everyone with kid gloves, and be super-nice even to the most brash individuals. I certainly don't try to be rude if I have to hand out a warning, but unfortunately it's a warning, not a polite request, and it has to be clear and get the point across.

ah - it takes as much effort to write a polite pm as a sarky one tbh. Even if the user is a dick and being abusive, still the same amount of effort. OP, if you have a problem with a specific mod, which you obviously do, would you ever name them so we can judge the case on its merits. I know the generalisation thing has been done to death but "are mods rude?" yeah. "Are girls rides?" yeah. You see what I mean?

Karl Hungus

tbh wrote: »

ah - it takes as much effort to write a polite pm as a sarky one tbh. Even if the user is a dick and being abusive, still the same amount of effort.

I'm hardly advocating being sarky here, but rather that if a warning is issued, it's not exactly meant to be a polite request, and that means if I have to warn them that they'll get a ban, that's exactly what I'll say. There's nothing sarcastic about it, or intentionally rude.

RoundyMooney

You have to remember too that some people (not necessarily the OP) don't react well to being told what to do, or to control.

Where I don't see the logic behind something, I *am* one of those people

Sparky

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1sZLSO9va0

RoundyMooney

Rb

RoundyMooney wrote: »

You have to remember too that some people (not necessarily the OP) don't react well to being told what to do, or to control.

Where I don't see the logic behind something, I *am* one of those people

If someone feels at a loss (e.g banned from a forum) then they're not going to take being spoken down to well, or blunt replies from moderators. It's not something that happens often, but it does happen and the less of it that takes place, the less píssed off users there are.

RoundyMooney

rb_ie wrote: »

If someone feels at a loss (e.g banned from a forum) then they're not going to take being spoken down to well, or blunt replies from moderators. It's not something that happens often, but it does happen and the less of it that takes place, the less píssed off users there are.

Quite correct. I was banned once from PI, for a week, because I didn't refresh a page before posting by quick reply (so missed a mod warning). I was, well, not happy, which is kind of dumb really in retrospect, when I realised I was getting narked over an internet forum

Minimising a breakdown in communication is the key, by making sure that regular rule breaches are highlighted where possible. It's an ongoing problem on adverts tbh, because n00bs who have never posted on boards sign up and post away.

We cannot legislate for everything though. Not only will some people (the type of people who make instructions on airline peanuts necessary) break the rules anyway, others will break them in full knowledge of their presence and application.

The latter group may get less latitude than the former, but moderators are both voluntary here, and human, and we don't have a call-centre-esque list of twenty things to do on the wall when an issue arises.

It's worth noting too, that many many users breeze through boards with no issues with four star users at all. If someone is getting mod attention again and again, then there is another issue at play.

Rb

RoundyMooney wrote: »

The latter group may get less latitude than the former, but moderators are both voluntary here, and human, and we don't have a call-centre-esque list of twenty things to do on the wall when an issue arises.

I was just thinking about this actually. Given the sheer size of Boards now, and with the addition of so many users who've never used a forum before Boards, maybe it would be a good idea to draw up a list of procedures for certain incidents that pop up from time to time?

I mean, it's not a company that's being ran, but to the average users Boards is seen as a heirarchy with the admins being the bosses at the top, and the moderators being those in control, the "managers" should we say who are also "customer representatives" should an issue arise. They're those who ensure the smooth running of the site.

It'd also set a standard for moderators and would make it easier to track which moderators are problematic, and would create a clear line of communication from the users through to the admins.

I.e

When banning a user
-Pm user with:
-Reason for ban including links to anti-charter behaviour and quote the relevant section of the charter
-Duration of ban
-Inform user that ban will now be on their record and will be taken into consideration should they be deemed in need of disciplining again
-Details of how/where to query ban if necessary
-Query if user is happy they've all the details and understand why they've been banned

etc etc

Then

Should a banned user dispute the ban by reply
-Cite the relevant part of the Charter along with any past performance (with links) that has been taken into consideration when taking action against said user i.e provide all available information to the user to help them understand why the action was taken
-Again reference helpdesk/feedback as a means of querying the ban
-End pm informing user that you've done your best and that if they want to take it further, to go to helpdesk or feedback

etc etc


I think such procedures set out in writing would both help the moderators, as well as the users. We, as a community, have to remember that bad news travels much quicker than good news. If UserX is banned for something he thinks is unfair, and one of the more blunt mods pms him saying "this is how it is, like it or lump it" then UserX will tell his mates how we're all d1ckheads and that we're ban happy muppets, which will discourage new accounts and ad hits.


It's only an idea though, it might sound like absolute nonsense but I think with the enormous growth of the site the fact that a lot of new users will be inexperienced forum users will need to be taken into account more and more and the mod/user dealings will have to be more "formal" in order to present the site in a positive manner. It might, if anything, prevent people having to go to feedback because a mod has been unhelpful and then getting torn to shreds by people "saying it how it is" and lolcats and as I said, it would highlight mods that aren't being so helpful/problematic.

roundymooney wrote:

If someone is getting mod attention again and again, then there is another issue at play.

Oh I agree, and I think if such procedures were implemented and the user informed that "You've been banned previously for X, Y and Z, you've now been banned for blah and as a consequence, this will be the last and final chance you're given in X(the forum). Your behaviour has been recorded and will be brought to the smods/admins should another issue arise, which may result in a site-wide ban.

As I said though, some might see it as nonsense but a few changes could help grow the site even quicker, get more new accounts, more advertising hits etc and therefore more revenue for the site to make it even better.

RoundyMooney

Some good input IMHO there in fairness.

I don't want to pre-empt matters, but Feedback (not only as a forum, more as a process-call it problem resolution for want of a better term) is being looked at closely at present.

Not before time either, but the way the site is now in terms of size, it's worth looking at new ideas.

Some of the lads have come up with some very good concepts of where things need to be and how to get there.

Suffice to say, it's not something the admins are ignoring in favour of the status quo (not that people think that generally, but worth highlighting anyway).

Mr Magnolia

Manners, do indeed cost nothing.

Couple of things: as has been pointed out that's a fair aul generalization VV, one to which I don't subscribe to.

A lot of mods are more direct than others, this may be to do with the forums they moderate, the related work load, the repetiveness of posts/topics, posters ignoring charters, etc. Various fora obviously require a totally different style of moderating than others.

Some forums require you to read the charter whereas others will be fairly generic. It's up to you to differentiate, if you can't then you should read all charters. I would regard failure to familiarize ones-self with each forum's charter as 'bad manners'. Note that when I say *you* I'm speaking about posters in general (myself included).

Personally, I try and be polite. It can make for pleasant replies to infractions, it's surprising sometimes

Dudess

I've had to deal with some posters who are absolute dicks, yet I've still never been rude to them. I'm not saying I deserve a medal or anything, but I think if one is a mod, it should go with the territory to have manners. Yet the OP is right, there are a few mods who are absolute assholes - very few, mind - but they're here. I think it's appalling of them to behave so ignorantly when they've been charged with "fair" moderating.

This forum is always awash with abuse towards posters whose threads may be misguided but they still don't deserve a fraction of the crap that gets thrown at them - much of it by mods. It's clearly a place where people go with the sole intention of ridiculing/being hostile - sometimes even if the thread starter isn't wrong. There's an absolute love for just POUNCING on people here...

The Sweeper

I fail to see why I have to be nice to a whinging muppet.

Dudess

I wouldn't be particularly nice to whingers either - although I wouldn't be abusive.
But the OP isn't talking about mods being rude to whingers, she's referring to certain mods who are rude simply because they can be - even if it's just a reasonable enquiry that's being made.

Oryx

I dont think the majority of mods are rude. They can be abrupt, which is a different thing, and I can understand that if they are dealing with the 12th incident of muppetry that day. They dont have the time to sugar coat anything.

And doesnt Thaedydal invariably sign off with 'have a nice day' when issuing warnings? Sure thats lovely.

And sometimes, when a ban is so sorely deserved, it warms the heart to see it done in cold, brutal rudeness. Sometimes that just fits.

Dudess

Of course the majority of mods aren't rude, just a small few. And it's so arrogant of them to think they have the right to be like that.

Kinetic^