Computers are for Sissys ....

PaulBrewer

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio2/musicclub/doc_toerag.shtml

sei046

You and yer BBC!

af_thefragile

:rolleyes:
You're gonna get nowhere if you decide to live in the past!

unclebill98

Even Grannies can use computers....

studiorat

I wonder does he still get a good mark-up on the tape.
Bet it sounds great.

sei046

I dont REALLY like the idea TBH. I dont see the point in limiting yourself. It seems like something someone who is really stubborn and egotistical would do. Limiting yourself form the get go instead of leaving yourself open for advances in technology. Why cant he use both? What if something handy comes up that still allows him to get the same sound but maybe easier or something?

As an Idea I think its pointless and very narrowminded. A bit of a laugh maybe but pointless. KEEP YOUR OPTIONS OPEN!

Savman

No way. Back to typewriters we all shall go.

PaulBrewer

sei046 wrote: »

I dont REALLY like the idea TBH. I dont see the point in limiting yourself. It seems like something someone who is really stubborn and egotistical would do. Limiting yourself form the get go instead of leaving yourself open for advances in technology. Why cant he use both? What if something handy comes up that still allows him to get the same sound but maybe easier or something?

As an Idea I think its pointless and very narrowminded. A bit of a laugh maybe but pointless. KEEP YOUR OPTIONS OPEN!

Limiting yourself IS the point!
To work on such gear one would have to make decisions on the fly and commit to those decisions. This becomes part of the creative process. Listen to the documentary - it's very interesting.

Of course I'm not implying ditch yer 'puter - but the underlying ideas do have some merit.

Also whatever anyone's opinion on the results are one can't deny they have personality - and that's gold dust in the Pro-Tools age.

sei046

I know what your saying paul but isnt a healthy respect for the technoligy not a better policy to have than to limit yourself?

It seems like they dont trust themselves to go with what sounds/is right. If you use all the best technology available, whether that be analogue or digital, you are surely going to get better results than to limit yourself to one and not be open to better options.

I would sooner learn how to show restraint and use anything that sounds good than to say I dont trust myself not to go overboard and only allow myself one avenue. Seems like a bit of a silly business plan since so many top studios offer both

PaulBrewer

sei046 wrote: »

I know what your saying paul but isnt a healthy respect for the technoligy not a better policy to have than to limit yourself?

It seems like they dont trust themselves to go with what sounds/is right. If you use all the best technology available, whether that be analogue or digital, you are surely going to get better results than to limit yourself to one and not be open to better options.

I would sooner learn how to show restraint and use anything that sounds good than to say I dont trust myself not to go overboard and only allow myself one avenue. Seems like a bit of a silly business plan since so many top studios offer both

It's a DIFFERENT policy to the norm, that's the point !

I don't believe there's a right or wrong in it. It's whatever works. All my clients who do well apply variations of that idea to the way they work.
That is, they do 'this' their way to the best of their abilities and they don't do 'that' - if it's 'this' you need then that's your man! It's that idea.

I seem to remember a post expressing a similar idea from Michael Trackmixstudio a while ago along similar lines - he does rock with bands he's comfortable with.

It's this expressing your own personal preferences that make things, and the world in general, interesting - trying to be all things to all men will lead to one thing, blandness....

sei046

I would think the opposite! I would feel that the possibilities offered by any one medium are limited, whereas a policy of anything goes gives an unlimited amount of sounds.

I just get uncomfortable thinking about a situation where I cannot do something because I limit myself unneccesarily to a medium. Its like saying I will only play telecasters. Telecasters are great and no other guitars sounds like they do but what happens when a song comes up that needs a les paul sound? Well I cant do that because I only want to use telecasters!

dabhoys

Looks like one of the EMI consoles in the picture. I think its a great idea, studio's like that. It's an entirely different work flow and creative environment then copy cut and paste with 1 million takes and mics all over the place. Some of my favorite things I've recorded were quick on the fly things with minimal approach and just capture wat was going down!!! Great to see studios like that!!

Was just reading too on Electrical Audio site that steve albini's studio just got a PT rig cuz they've become so important in the studio. But it says don't be asking Steve to use it!!!

http://www.electrical.com/

sei046

But everyone seems to work under the assumption that the digital domain requires you use 100 mics and do 45669 takes! Thats what gets me. If thats what you do then thats human error! Nothing do do with the equipment. Kind of sad really?

I sound like im saying digital is better and thats not it at all. I just think a venture like this is no more than a nice little curiosity. Seems pointless and someone with a head on their shoulders and a healthy knowledge of whats going on would be taking what they can/want from the business.

Savman

Like with every Analogue V Digital argument, there can only be one true outcome in the end. Both. Maybe it should be called "digilogue"

All the latest top live mixing desks are digital with analogue interfaces, just one example of how the industry is reacting to increasing demand for the simplicity of analogue with the advantages of digital.

Digilogue! You heard it here first!

sei046

Eggsaktly

PaulBrewer

sei046 wrote: »

I would think the opposite! I would feel that the possibilities offered by any one medium are limited, whereas a policy of anything goes gives an unlimited amount of sounds.

I just get uncomfortable thinking about a situation where I cannot do something because I limit myself unneccesarily to a medium. Its like saying I will only play telecasters. Telecasters are great and no other guitars sounds like they do but what happens when a song comes up that needs a les paul sound? Well I cant do that because I only want to use telecasters!

That's the WHOLE point! You only do songs that need Telecasters!!

Think about this from here on - you'll see variations of that theme in virtually all the guys who are at it for a while - instead of trying to be 'everything' try and be 'something' .

sei046

I think something is the wrong term " One thing " would be better.

I personally think if it were left up to these people we would not have used fire! We wouldnt have used the wheel.

There is that characteristic THUD.....THUD......THUD......from using two squares to move around that you JUST CANT get from circles.

Its a nice idea and a brilliant sounding studio im sure! I just dont like the mentality. I consider myself a musical prostitute. I dont care what genre I play on, what guitar i have to use to do it, whatever amp it takes, whatever style i have to play. In the studio i dont care if i have to use 900 tracks to get THAT sound, mic the guitar from every angle, or only use a tascam MTS 120 on an orchestra, or use a pc mic into a tape recorder to get Metallicas guitar sounds.

Means to an end.

cut means...cut ends

PaulBrewer

sei046 wrote: »

I think something is the wrong term " One thing " would be better.

I personally think if it were left up to these people we would not have used fire! We wouldnt have used the wheel.

There is that characteristic THUD.....THUD......THUD......from using two squares to move around that you JUST CANT get from circles.

Its a nice idea and a brilliant sounding studio im sure! I just dont like the mentality. I consider myself a musical prostitute. I dont care what genre I play on, what guitar i have to use to do it, whatever amp it takes, whatever style i have to play. In the studio i dont care if i have to use 900 tracks to get THAT sound, mic the guitar from every angle, or only use a tascam MTS 120 on an orchestra, or use a pc mic into a tape recorder to get Metallicas guitar sounds.

Means to an end.

cut means...cut ends

Yes, an equally valid way to think - and one I share.

However Liam has had 1 Grammy and 1 Grammy nomination out of the studio in the back of his house! He doin something right. I thought the kick on Seven Nation army was the best kick ever!

Limitations free you to do other stuff, maybe the other stuff is what's interesting?

sei046

How does limiting yourself open avenues? Limiting means restricting avenues!

I never once said that amazing results couldnt be achieved!

dabhoys

I was talking about the workflow not analogue vs digital. Thats a crazy boring debate I don't want to get into

But like I was saying some of my favourite things were done very quick with minimal approach but was into PT. Every projects requires different approaches. The studio for me is its vibe that it will offer with the more minimal approach.

The best studios for me are the ones with some mojo and vibe. You can have all the best gear in the world but if your studio is lacking in the vibe department your in deep trouble. Different strokes for different folks. Sometimes the old school style studio will inspire the band and project better then a modern studio doing the minimal approach etc.

sei046

I dont like that idea lol.

PaulBrewer

sei046 wrote: »

How does limiting yourself open avenues? !

I'm not expressing myself very well am I ?

Imagine this , 1 Tele , 1 Fender Twin , now impress me!

Because of the fact you have limited sonic options the only thing that's going to impress is the playing i.e. the music.

So it's that idea - heres what we have, it all sounds good, lets make music!

Simple!

PaulBrewer

dabhoys wrote: »

Sometimes the old school style studio will inspire the band and project better then a modern studio doing the minimal approach etc.

Amen Dabhoys

dabhoys

I've worked in rooms that make you want to work and I've worked in rooms that not matter how hard you try, working sucks in them. No mojo!!! Hence why some studios never get renovated from there original decor and set up. I'm always going to go to the studio that inspire's work and creativity!!

PaulBrewer

Mojo that's it!

sei046

I never once doubted that! But Thats a styling issue! It has nothing to do with the functionality of the stuff.

I definitely agree that a studio has to FEEL right. But thats more down to the way that things LOOK too digital! But I CERTAINLY would not sacrifice quality/functionality for how something looks!

Mojo does not come into this because there is no winning formula and i dont think thats what that studio was going for. You cant put a load of analogue gear in the room and say "Yeah this now has mojo, get inspired!".

I am not saying there is anything wrong with all analogue at all!
I disagree with the mindset that says " Limit your capabilities ".
Sure you can sound amazing on your telecaster and impress people with it, but whats wrong with owning a les paul anyway!?!?!?!?

PaulBrewer

sei046 wrote: »

but whats wrong with owning a les paul anyway!?!?!?!?

Nothing! That's an equally valid view.

But it's an old story, back to basics.
It's a route many bands have taken. Hence a band like Madness wanted to go back to their roots, and using a studio like ToeRag was a way to do that.

sei046

Ok! I know what your saying!

Like, sometimes its nice just to gig with Guitar>Lead>Amp.
I love that. Its basic, you have to work differently!
BUT! I wouldnt say i can only use that because by having my effects rack etc. I can do the same AND more!

We are not disagreeing I think. Just both showing equal points!

PaulBrewer

sei046 wrote: »

As an Idea I think its pointless and very narrowminded.

So you don't think this anymore? ....... Good!

jtsuited

it's not pointless. but it is narrowminded.

I mean i think it's cool to have a place like this, and fair play to them. But it is really catering to a lot esoteric nonsense in music industry.

And that white stripes album is a musical abomination.

sei046

I still think its a stupid idea really. More of a curiosity! Its there money!

PaulBrewer

sei046 wrote: »

I still think its a stupid idea really. More of a curiosity! Its there money!

Ah Dave, bad spelling nulls all arguments!

sei046

I WAS JUST DISCUSSING THIS! My spelling has gone to the dogs on the internet! And my grammar! It really has. I was literally just saying this! Whenever I read over my own posts I have no idea what I was trying to say! In real life Im a spelling and grammar bitch!

PaulBrewer

sei046 wrote: »

I WAS JUST DISCUSSING THIS! My spelling has gone to the dogs on the internet! And my grammar! It really has. I was literally just saying this! Whenever I read over my own posts I have no idea what I was trying to say! In real life Im a spelling and grammar bitch!

So that's grammar, spelling and arguing you need to smarten up on..... perhaps there's a night class?;)

sei046

Now paul, I think you will find that arguing is one of the things I do best as I focus on the facts! Freedom from one's ego is a powerful tool in constructing opinions.

PaulBrewer

sei046 wrote: »

Now paul, I think you will find that arguing is one of the things I do best as I focus on the facts! Freedom from one's ego is a powerful tool in constructing opinions.

Hmmm....!:D

jtsuited

sei046 wrote: »

Now paul, I think you will find that arguing is one of the things I do best

jaysus you must be sh1te at everything else you do so.

sei046

Touche! Tooshay? Twoshae!?

sei046

jtsuited wrote: »

jaysus you must be sh1te at everything else you do so.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!



AAAAAAAAAAAAAH HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH! LOL!

LOL!

good one.

PaulBrewer

sei046 wrote: »

Touche! Tooshay? Twoshae!?

Touchy!

jtsuited

sei046 wrote: »

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!



AAAAAAAAAAAAAH HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH! LOL!

LOL!

good one.

excellent response. bravo

sei046

There seems to be a lot of lads recording through tape to protools or vice versa. Seems like the natural progression to me anyway. I dont like people farting on about how they will only use digital either. Paul your dealing with this stuff the whole time, Do you find people using the SSL's etc with analogue?

PaulBrewer

sei046 wrote: »

There seems to be a lot of lads recording through tape to protools or vice versa. Seems like the natural progression to me anyway. I dont like people farting on about how they will only use digital either. Paul your dealing with this stuff the whole time, Do you find people using the SSL's etc with analogue?

No, I don't know of anyone using tape consistently.

I've heard of a few guys trying it to get that 'analogue' sound (whaever da is?) but tape costs effect enthusiasm on that front.

I believe The Blizzards explored the tape route on their current project but reverted to PTools.

However, a large portion of what we supply is analogue gear, which is us reacting to what we're asked for.

I believe the Raconteurs new album was done to tape and does sound fab!

sei046

So you dont see too many hybrid setups?

dabhoys

Even out here in LA tape has become very rare to track too. Mainly PT

The raconteurs did there record in Blackbird Studio in Nashville, with Joe Chiccarelli. Blackbird is a sick studio. They've got a crazy amount of gear. Its nuts. A lot of great stuff is being done out there at the moment. Great article this month in Mix all about things in nashville at the moment.

dabhoys

Theres plenty of great recordings being done to PT. The problem I've seen with the tape thats being manufactured at the moment is very inconsistent. So its a pain in the ass from reel to reel.

When it comes to that studio in England for me what its offering is not all the gear its the method of recording and ways of approaching the recording.

Its like recording at a residential studio is a totally different way of recording to recording in a regular studio. So to me this place is offering a different way of recording.

PaulBrewer

sei046 wrote: »

So you dont see too many hybrid setups?

Well hybrid insofar as a mix of analogue mic pres , eqs and comps , digital in the middle, and analogue summing back end too.

Interesting from my point of view is that guys are willing to try the likes of Summing mixers now whereas even a couple of years ago they wouldn't.

It's clear to anyone who has tried the likes how and why it performs well .

That's why I think the SSL Mynx is a very significant product insofar as any serious home user can have at their disposal exactly the same circuitry as the guys with the Euro 200k console. His mic pre will operate exactly as yours will.

This is the first time this has happened and I think these developments , particularly driven by SSL will have a big positive impact on home recording.

Sales pitch over!!

dabhoys

SSL have been bring there prices down to within grasp of people at home. The company has taken on a whole new approach to stay in the game. Its great and it allows them to keep making the nice console I love so much Even the Large format ones have had a major price drop too. But from what I can tell not a quality drop.

I've yet to use the Duality but have been hearing great things about it.

PaulBrewer

dabhoys wrote: »

SSL have been bring there prices down to within grasp of people at home. The company has taken on a whole new approach to stay in the game. Its great and it allows them to keep making the nice console I love so much Even the Large format ones have had a major price drop too. But from what I can tell not a quality drop.

I've yet to use the Duality but have been hearing great things about it.

There's one in Clara in Offaly , you're very welcome to come down for a day for a spin if you so desire.

PaulBrewer

dabhoys wrote: »

Even the Large format ones have had a major price drop too. But from what I can tell not a quality drop.

I've yet to use the Duality but have been hearing great things about it.

A lot of the price drop is to do with the way they're built - the mic input is now an XLR directly on the circuit boards for example.

This makes a twofold gain - namely a shorter direct audio path and a man NOT wiring up an edac internally and running through miles of extra cabling, all of which costs!

The power supplies are much smaller too so it's cheaper to run. I've heard of a city centre studio who pay Euro 1k on electricity a month!

sei046

Thats insane!
I dont believe companys care lol. If they are dropping prices its because sales are dropping on their higher end stuff! Then again im exceedingly cynical