Weights & reps

DonkeyRhubarb

Can anyone tell me what are the advantages / disadvantages of:

More weight with less reps

Less weight with more reps.

My routine is comprised of both, on the instrustors orders, I just wanna know what for???

SorGan

low rep(1-3) and heavy is generally considered a strength builder with fewer gains in mass.

higher reps(10-12) and less weight(due to increased rep range) is generally less strength and more mass.

always depending on many variables:).

rubadub

Check out www.exrx.net

basically as said before. So many athletes in weight classes will value/aim to be strong while light. Bodybuilders or people trying to lose fat will not care about strength and focus on muscle mass.

Building muscle and maintaining it uses lots of calories, so thats what I aim for.

DonkeyRhubarb

Makes sense. Thanks lads. I think mass and weight loss is my thing, so might go for slightly less weight and more reps.

:cool:

Degsy

Ah but is there not a direct correlation between strength and size?I mean powerlifters train for strength and they're usually big.I reckon they stronger you are,the more weight you can shift and the bigger you'll get.Just my two cents worth.

crotalus667

Degsy wrote: »

.I reckon they stronger you are,the more weight you can shift and the bigger you'll get..

you recken wrong , pound for pound powerlifter's are stronger , coz they build thicker dense muscels

Degsy

crotalus667 wrote: »

you recken wrong , pound for pound powerlifter's are stronger , coz they build thicker dense muscels

You've just pretty much backed up what i was saying!

SorGan

nope...ever see those small Olympic lifters lift major weights?

training for pure strength is not the best way to gain mass.

you can get considerably stronger with minimum mass gains:)
pity:(

Degsy

SorGan wrote: »

nope...ever see those small Olympic lifters lift major weights?

training for pure strength is not the best way to gain mass.

you can get considerably stronger with minimum mass gains:)
pity:(

Ever see a skinny powerlifter?

Hanley

SorGan wrote: »

nope...ever see those small Olympic lifters lift major weights?

No, I haven't actually.

training for pure strength is not the best way to gain mass.

you can get considerably stronger with minimum mass gains:)
pity:(

Eh.... by the "skinny" guys you refer to are guys like Stoitsov? The 77kg world champ?? This guy http://stronglifts.com/wp-content/uploads/ivan-stoitsov.jpg ??

The lighter weightlcasses in weightlifting are shorted guys who proportionally have similar enough levels of muscle compared to bodyweight.

I've done nothing but train for pure strength for the past 2 or 3 years. Put on over 15-20kg in that time. And I was around 80kg to start with so I wasn't skinny.

SorGan

Degsy wrote: »

Ever see a skinny powerlifter?

yep:D but i get ya..
...but im just trying to get the different training methods across.
low rep heavy lifting, will get you looking big but it ain't the fastest method...just the best

Hanley

SorGan wrote: »

yep:D but i get ya..
...but im just trying to get the different training methods across.
low rep heavy lifting, will get you looking big but it ain't the fastest method...just the best

What is the fastest method then?

SorGan

Hanley wrote: »

No, I haven't actually.



Eh.... by the "skinny" guys you refer to are guys like Stoitsov? The 77kg world champ?? This guy http://stronglifts.com/wp-content/uploads/ivan-stoitsov.jpg ??

The lighter weightlcasses in weightlifting are shorted guys who proportionally have similar enough levels of muscle compared to bodyweight.

I've done nothing but train for pure strength for the past 2 or 3 years. Put on over 15-20kg in that time. And I was around 80kg to start with so I wasn't skinny.

well i said small not skinny but no matter.
okay the vague direction i was heading in was that compared to say the bodybuilding method, powerlifters can be much stronger with less muscle.

so if you can gain a lot of mass without the maximum strength gains in bodybuilding then can their be a direct link between strength and size?

crotalus667

Degsy wrote: »

You've just pretty much backed up what i was saying!

No , read it again

cowzerp

Its simple really!

Heavy weights low reps for pure power. powerlifters

moderate/heavy, medium reps 8-12 for bodybuilding! use all rep ranges for bodybuilding imo..

and 12-15 for more endurance, runners etc..

thats the guidelines but i prefer the aproach of using all them to get an all round result, a strong fit body, and big if you like that look!

SorGan

Hanley wrote: »

What is the fastest method then?

id look to the bodybuilding camps, higher reps and volume.:)
not my personal choice.

Hanley

SorGan wrote: »

well i said small not skinny but no matter.
okay the vague direction i was heading in was that compared to say the bodybuilding method, powerlifters can be much stronger with less muscle.

so if you can gain a lot of mass without the maximum strength gains in bodybuilding then can their be a direct link between strength and size?

I'm confused, are you suggesting that there isn't a link between strength and size?? Look at some of the top bodybuilders ever, Yates, Colemean, Olivia (former weightlifer), Franco etc etc all immensly strong. Of course there have been guys who wouldn't as strong as they look. That doesn't mean that strength has no bearing on size.

"Small" powerlifters are typicall shorter in stature. They also work on serverly restricted kcal diets at points during the year to keep weight down. That's not to mention dropping anywhere from 5-20kg in the week before a comp to make weight.

One of the biggest revolutions sweeping bodybuilding at the moment is Doggcrapp training. The over riding belief being the more often you can train, and the stronger you can get, the bigger you'll be. There's a direct quote from the creater in my sig, give it a look.

Hanley

SorGan wrote: »

id look to the bodybuilding camps, higher reps and volume.:)
not my personal choice.

What type of bodybuilding??

Mentzer's HIIT or Yates modified version??

Scott Abdel's 50 and 100 rep programs?

Dante's DoggCrapp?

Traditional Arnie style sets of 12?

SorGan

cowzerp wrote: »

Its simple really!

Heavy weights low reps for pure power. powerlifters

moderate/heavy, medium reps 8-12 for bodybuilding! use all rep ranges for bodybuilding imo..

and 12-15 for more endurance, runners etc..

thats the guidelines but i prefer the aproach of using all them to get an all round result, a strong fit body, and big if you like that look!

with you on that, i tend to hit low and high too.

SorGan

Hanley wrote: »

What type of bodybuilding??

Mentzer's HIIT or Yates modified version??

Scott Abdel's 50 and 100 rep programs?

Dante's DoggCrapp?

Traditional Arnie style sets of 12?

roll the dice.
the best one ive heard is "what works for you"..

Hanley

SorGan wrote: »

roll the dice.
the best one ive heard is "what works for you"..

But they're all different...

And what if low reps work for some peope...??

cowzerp

Hanley wrote: »

But they're all different...

And what if low reps work for some peope...??

Hanley, surely you periodise your training with a mix of high and low repetitions in there??

obviously with your main goal in mind, low reps mainly..

anyway i think size is more about diet and just training hard, with variation!!

SorGan

Hanley wrote: »

But they're all different...

And what if low reps work for some peope...??

well thats the thing man, i tried to be as general as i could is answering the ops question, because the truth is there are a million experts saying different things.
personally i love low rep stuff,but i dont get bigger.:mad:

Degsy

Its a little known fact but Arnie trained as a powerlifter as well as a bodybuilder.He incorporated low rep heavy deadlifts,squats and bench into his more conventional training.If it worked for him it wont do anybody else any harm.

Mikel

Isn't there a difference between training for Strength, Power, and Hypertrophy?
There will surely be an overlap, but you can get stronger without getting the maximum gains in size, and you can get bigger without getting the maximum gains in strength.
I think the original advice was that your rep scheme would be different depending on what you are trying to optimise, not that there is no correlation between the two.
I don't know how bbers train now, i just remember the 3-4 sets of 8-10, supersets and so on. Thats probably way out of date now.
OP I wouldn't worry about it tbh, unless you're pretty advanced, by which time you'll know how your body reacts to each.

utick

SorGan wrote: »

low rep(1-3) and heavy is generally considered a strength builder with fewer gains in mass.

higher reps(10-12) and less weight(due to increased rep range) is generally less strength and more mass.

always depending on many variables:).

You sure about that? i always thought it was the other way around



EDIT.........no i think the strength part is right its the mass part i thought was the other way around

Hanley

utick wrote: »

You sure about that? i always thought it was the other way around

10-12 for strength? Wouldn't say so... It'll have some carry over in untrained people but as you progres strength becomes a function of neural adaptation as much as anything else, it's a quality best trained around 85-100%, hence the reps will be lower, 1-5.



Moving on... Remember how people comment on Dorian's thickness and granite like appearance? Two things contributed, his insane conditioning and the ACTUAL muscle hypertrophy on a celluar level (as opposed to sacroplastic hyepertrophy and glycogen increases etc). Yates is still a very large and VERY dense looking guy today.

The type of muscle and apperance that you build thru heavy training is alot more enduring than the transient type attained from just pumping sets of 12-15. Obviously both are tools that should be used. But to discount one purely because of conventional "wisdom" would be insane.

rubadub

Hanley wrote: »

I've done nothing but train for pure strength for the past 2 or 3 years. Put on over 15-20kg in that time. And I was around 80kg to start with so I wasn't skinny.

If you did nothing but train for pure size for the past 2 or 3 years you would probably have put on more than the 15-20kg.

Of course powerlifters will put on mass while training. But like many athletes in weight divisions I expect many want to be as strong as possible for their sport, while being relatively light. Amateurs may not be so concerned, some may have taken up training just to lose fat and the competitive side may just come second.

On some other forums you may see this more, on gymnastics forums many are asking how to add strength with minimal mass gains, they want a high strength to bodyweight ratio for obvious reasons.

Many people just want to lose fat and keep it off with minimum time spent in the gym, i.e. might want to spend 3 hours a week in the gym and do the most effective exercises for fat loss.

unreggd

How many Sets is reccommended for mass gain???

Transform

Its not about how many reps or sets you do its all about intensity, intensity, intensity.

For me, i best learned this from 20rep squats i did for 3 years building up to 250lbs - for just one set!

Pick 3 sets of 10reps this month then 5 sets of 5 reps next month etc rotate all the time but foucs on getting stronger on the big lifts and everything else will take care of itself.

Discussing bodybuilders does not matter a dam - they are using drugs with allows them to do massive amounts of volume and does not translate well for the normal trainee.

To the original poster - are you squatting and deadlifting (no BS leg pressing please)and want to gain lots of muscle? No. Then walk away from your 3 ecercises of your biceps and start training properly