Unreliability a Myth?

blackbox

We all know the stories that certain makes of cars are supposed to be unreliable, but is there any truth in them? When were you last actually in a car that broke down?

– and I don’t mean issues that were caused by driver error or bad roads, such as that you left it parked with the lights on, locked the keys in it or lost them, or that it ran out of petrol (unless maybe it was due to a faulty fuel gauge) or that it got a puncture?

Over the years I have owned 3 Fiats, 2 Toyotas, a Porsche, a Ford, a BMW a Volkswagen and a Mitsubishi.

The only actual breakdowns I recall were when I repeatedly drove my Citroen BX GT16 through deep puddles at high speed and when I put a dodgy electronic ignition kit in a Fiat X1-9 – neither of which you could really blame the manufacturer for.

I sometimes see cars on the side of the road with their bonnets up – about 50% seem to be Mercedes, and only yesterday I saw two Renaults and a BMW, but I never know the real story behind these events.

So let’s have your story. – NB the fewer responses I get the more I know that the myths are untrue...

.

Ciaran500

Our 02 Laguna had both front electric windows break within a couple of months of each other. This allowed for the window to be just pushed down by hand and any potholes would jar them loose.

We've also been through 3 keys for it, the close button on them keeps failing but everything else works perfectly (starts the car and opens the door) so its just a mircoswith that is failing. Yet each time they said there was no way to repair them and charged about €200 to replace them. My uncle also had similar problems with his 03 Megane sunroof and key.

siralfalot

only two of my cars have ever let me down on the side of the road, a Pug 306 1.4 with electrical problems, and a Passat 1.9tdi with engine trouble

I've also had:
3 Toyotas
4 Alfas
2 Fiats
that never let me down

blackbox

siralfalot wrote: »

only two cars have ever let me down on the side of the road, a Pug 306 1.4 with electrical problems, and a Passat 1.9tdi with engine trouble

I've had:
3 Toyotas
4 Alfas
2 Fiats
that never let me down

The Pug and Passat weren't your own then? Do you know if they had been maintained?

Slig

I had a Daihatsu Charade and it was the only car that actually broke down on me, just stopped after working perfectly for years. Diesel pump had stopped working due to using washed Diesel I was told.
Had a Nissan Sunny did the same but I knew there was something wrong with it and it wasent worth getting fixed.
Had a mitsubishi pajero which was great mechanically but ya had to cross your fingers if you wanted any of the electrics to work (probably from being dunked in the water every weekend) and I now have a Nissan Terrano that the fuel gauge sometimes works and various lights come on the dash without reason or warning.

cjt156

I've owned or driven long term;
Renault, VW, Peugeot, Ford, Mazda, Volvo and 2 Alfas.

The only one to ever have me stopped at the side of the road was the VW Golf.
If only everything in life was as reliable as an Alfa Romeo;)

siralfalot

blackbox wrote: »

The Pug and Passat weren't your own then? Do you know if they had been maintained?

yes they were mine, and every one of them were serviced regularly, my first post edited to clarify, sorry!

blackbox

Ciaran500 wrote: »

Our 02 Laguna had both front electric windows break within a couple of months of each other. This allowed for the window to be just pushed down by hand and any potholes would jar them loose.

We've also been through 3 keys for it, the close button on them keeps failing but everything else works perfectly (starts the car and opens the door) so its just a mircoswith that is failing. Yet each time they said there was no way to repair them and charged about €200 to replace them. My uncle also had similar problems with his 03 Megane sunroof and key.

I think it would be fair to say that they had a shoddy build quality, rather than were unreliable.

Phaetonman

See what you are asking for now is an impromptu reliability survey with a handful of respondants. Why not just rely on the proper ones?

Another thing to watch out for with reliabilty surveys is the % of people reporting faults for supposed unreliable cars might actually be fairly low.

Eoin

My 89 mini wasn't the must trustworthy of cars - a pin in the gear shift linkage fell out leaving me stuck. I think that was the only time it couldn't move under its own power, but there was a whole list of other problems that came up.

My 3 series clutch went late last year at rush hour, but it had the guts of 120K miles on the clock by then.

alias no.9

When individual cars are bad, they tend to be very bad, but there can be years of trouble free motoring in marques/models perceived as being unreliable. Personally I think the margin between reliable marques/models and unreliable marques/models is very slender.
Our perception of reliability goes back to the days when you crossed your fingers on a wet or cold morning and hoped the damn thing would start. The replacement of carburettors, distributors, manual chokes with fuel injection, electronic ignition, and engine management systems means that almost every car starts first time, every time. When they do go wrong it's usually a sensor and the car can usually operate at reduced power until you get it to a garage.

Slig

I agree, most cars are fairly even now with engine technologies similar.
I know of people that will only buy Jap cars for their reliability but will still buy a nissan:D

Kavinsky

I think Fiats deserve their reputation. I know 2 different people who bought Fiat Punto as their 1st car and, in both cases the clutch went within 3 months of buying the car! Is that crazy or what?

jameshayes

Kavinsky wrote: »

I think Fiats deserve their reputation. I know 2 different people who bought Fiat Punto as their 1st car and, in both cases the clutch went within 3 months of buying the car! Is that crazy or what?

Sounds like bad driving - when i drove my punto I found it very easy to ride the clutch

ianobrien

Going back about 25 years of cars at home, the only breakdowns I can remember in mine & Da's cars were

1. Clutch cable snapping in a 86 Orion
2. Timing belt snapping prematurely in the 86 Orion (at 30k miles ish) Car was bought new, and got rid of 3 years later
3. Crankshaft timing sensor going in a 00 Primera while 3 months old. The recall notice came the following day.

Other problems we had but managed to get the car home include distributor caps & rotor arms going (we always carry spares in the cars), Crankshaft oil seals going and contaminating the clutch (thank God for Coke!), exhaust mounts snapping (repaired with wire), holed rads fixed with eggs, etc

We usually have a few tools in the back of every car...

Fozzie Bear

My buddy works in a Renault main dealers and he says there the greatest piles of sh1te he has even seen. They have had 3 of the brand new Laguna's back with diesel leaks with weeks of them being sold. Out from that their service department is kept busy with just about every fault you could think of.

I don't think the reputations some brands have are without justification. Maybe its changed in recent years but my father would never buy a French or Italian car. Now thats not down to good old fashioned racism or anything but simply when he was a young man these brands were notoriously unreliable bags of sheeite. I in turn have pretty much the same views on these brands given this and from what I have heard and read about them myself. I tend to stick to Japanese or German cars as I personally feel they are better built and more reliable in the main.

TychoCaine

Fiat/Alfa get a bit of a hard time. Their electrics aren't the greatest, but they're nowhere near as bad as some French cars. It's their dealers that pi55 me off. All in all though, the worst of today's cars are way more reliable than the best of the cars from the 80's. There's a company in the UK called Warranty Direct that do after-market car warranties for Joe Public and the 2nd hand car trade. As you'd expect they've a huge database of what goes wrong with each model of car, and they've been nice enough to put it all online @ http://www.reliabilityindex.co.uk/. Their numbers should be a) accurate and b) impartial. Their "reliability index" is a metric derived from frequency of failure and cost of repair.

Stevie Dakota

Looks like all family cars are crap so, Lagunas leaking diesel, Mazda 6 diesels blowing up, Passat handbrake and electrical woes, Mondeo generally unreliable, Accord with turbo issues. They sure don't make them like they used to...

RobAMerc

how id it the Fiat/Alfa/Renault stories seem to always start with - my buddy has or a mate knows - but the people who actually owned them say they were great ?

Anyway - only cars to let me down were

honda crx - distributor
mercedes - ECU (Well it was 35 years old )
Renault 19 16v - fuel pump at 50k

reliability is the measure of a car only if you know fook all else about them - otherwise it ain't the end of the world if it does break down.

Anan1

Kavinsky wrote: »

I think Fiats deserve their reputation. I know 2 different people who bought Fiat Punto as their 1st car and, in both cases the clutch went within 3 months of buying the car! Is that crazy or what?

The answer's in the question.;)

unkel

alias no.9 wrote: »

I think the margin between reliable marques/models and unreliable marques/models is very slender.

Agreed. Provided the cars are properly maintained. In fact the single least reliable car for sale in the UK has an issue on average once a year (see reliability index studies etc.)

Hotwheels

The only car to let me down was a MKiii XR3i, water pump failed and broke the belt. Bent two valves, which I replaced and was good as new...

Other cars milage at time of sale:

Vectra GT 160,000 miles no breakdowns Punto 50,000 miles no breakdowns Punto 25,000 miles no breakdowns Alfa Romeo 156 42,000 miles no breakdowns Alfa Romeo 159 JTDm 60,000 miles no breakdowns Alfa Romeo 159 JTDm 1,500 miles (and counting)

Most of today’s cars are reliable, providing you look after them properly...

Green Hornet

My brother had a Renault Laguna for three years 2001 1.8 Sport. It was absolute dung.

The key card stopped working so he could not lock the car (two different key cards) because there was no manual lock.

Engine management light kept coming on but the Renault garage could not find any fault. In the end he just ignored it.

Front passanger window went up and down on its own - or would not work at all.

The drive by wire throttle had to be replaced.

30 mpg.

He sold it 3 weeks ago. I suppose by the letter of the law it always started and stopped as required but I dont think it could really be classed as a reliable car.

GTC

Hotwheels wrote: »

Most of today’s cars are reliable, providing you look after them properly...

You're kidding right?

We in Traffic Corps keep the cars absolutely perfectly maintained. We drive them hard, but drive them well, we're good to clutches and keep wheels tracked, balanced etc. Services at 1/2 normal intervals.

Yet we have Ford Mondeos eating clutches like they were made of ice-cream. Air conditioning failing (no matter how well kept) at ~100k miles. Front suspension is notorious. Interior handles etc., fall off like they're made of blu-tac. Ford Focuses (used in smaller stations) are still proving unreliable and awful to drive (1.4 is like floggin a dead horse (decomposing and very, very smelly horse at that)

BMWs with scores of glitches, Mercedes ministerial cars spending months in the shop, the only wagon that gave feck all trouble was a Toyota Camry 3.0V6 we had a year or so ago. The newer Vectra TDs are proving quite good, if a little blighted with silly glitches in the electrics.

JD Power surveys regularly put Japanese built cars in the top 10, (ignore euro-built Japanese badged cars) and I'd tend to stick to the Jap stuff myself.

All this having been said, a lot depends on what you're prepared to put up with. Some people ignore the quality of the car and idolise the number plate, its horses for courses IMO.

Green Hornet

[quote=GTC;5596

JD Power surveys regularly put Japanese built cars in the top 10, (ignore euro-built Japanese badged cars) and I'd tend to stick to the Jap stuff myself.

[/quote]
Good point. I know that the Swindon built Honda Civic (hatchback models)is supposed to be of a lower build quality than the Jap built saloons.

Kavinsky

GTC wrote: »

You're kidding right?

We in Traffic Corps keep the cars absolutely perfectly maintained. We drive them hard, but drive them well, we're good to clutches and keep wheels tracked, balanced etc. Services at 1/2 normal intervals.

Yet we have Ford Mondeos eating clutches like they were made of ice-cream. Air conditioning failing (no matter how well kept) at ~100k miles. Front suspension is notorious. Interior handles etc., fall off like they're made of blu-tac. Ford Focuses (used in smaller stations) are still proving unreliable and awful to drive (1.4 is like floggin a dead horse (decomposing and very, very smelly horse at that)

You are a member of the Gardai, can I ask you something that I have always wondered. Why do the Gardai drive Fords mostly (Mondeos/Focuses). Why not Nissan/Toyota/Honda or Mazda? I know the cops in America drive Fords also (Crown Victorias), but their roads are a lot different to ours and more suited to a car like that.

Kavinsky

Oh I see there's another topic dedicated to this exact subject lol I am new around here. Might be better off discussing it in the other one.

BrianD3

Green Hornet wrote: »

My brother had a Renault Laguna for three years 2001 1.8 Sport. It was absolute dung.

The key card stopped working so he could not lock the car (two different key cards) because there was no manual lock.

Engine management light kept coming on but the Renault garage could not find any fault. In the end he just ignored it.

Front passanger window went up and down on its own - or would not work at all.

Funny how in all your previous posts slagging off Renault you didn't mention your "brother's" 2001 Laguna even once. However you did mention your "friend's" 2002 Laguna which lo and behold seems to have had the exact same problems as your "brother's" one.

Green Hornet wrote:

My friend has a 2002 Laguna and the passanger electric window goes up and down on its own! Had to disconnect it so now it wont go up or down. The doors wont lock and he cant lock them by hand because there is no manual option so he cant bring it anywhere. This is the second time its happened.

The dash lights up like a Christmas tree with warning lights but Renault cant find a problem.

Green Hornet

BrianD3 wrote: »

Funny how in all your previous posts slagging off Renault you didn't mention your "brother's" 2001 Laguna even once. However you did mention your "friend's" 2002 Laguna which lo and behold seems to have had the exact same problems as your "brother's" one.

Apologies, my brothers was 2001. He got 3500 Euro for it. The guy in work has a 2002 model. As I said in the post, it always started and stopped OK. The electrics were the problem and the post 2003 models were supposed to be better. I believe many people with the 2001 and 2002 models experienced similar issues.

junkyard

The new Passat is in pole position again for breakdowns this week according to my friends in the AA. On a recent trip I passed four of them on recovery trucks all with in a 30 mile trip and no, there wasn't a Passat show on anywhere!:)

E92

Somebody I know bought a new 2.0 TDI A6 at the start of the year. Within a week it was on a lo-loader going back to the garage. Yesterday it went back for the third time. Ah yes, the joys of modern German engineering.

They don't make cars like they used to, even Toyotas give trouble these days.

Guy:Incognito

Ciaran500 wrote: »

Our 02 Laguna had both front electric windows break within a couple of months of each other. This allowed for the window to be just pushed down by hand and any potholes would jar them loose.

We've also been through 3 keys for it, the close button on them keeps failing but everything else works perfectly (starts the car and opens the door) so its just a mircoswith that is failing. Yet each time they said there was no way to repair them and charged about €200 to replace them. My uncle also had similar problems with his 03 Megane sunroof and key.

Theres a guy in England that will repair the keys for £25. Think you just send it to him with a sae. Leaves a small bit of osmetic damage but the keys work again which is the main thing.
Dont know if they changed the keys in the last few years but the missus 05 Scenic still has 2 perfecty funtining keycards with no sign of wear.

Speaking of shoddily built keys my Xanta came with 2 keys, both of which the lock buttion had broken off inside. Someidiot though it would be a good idea to mount the buttons sideways on the pcb on the Xantia key so if a hard button pressing owner gets hold of them (read: old people and women who think pushing a button harder makes it work better and makes dead batterieswork ) they break offfairly easily.

My list of cars reads as a 00 Clio, 93 Safrane , 97 Safrane, 94 Rover 620, 94 Accord, 97 Partner van and a 00 Xantia.

The Accord and 620 bot gave the same issues (rear drivers side door not working with cntal locking beingthe main one ), so obviously weak spots with the accords and both blew in in the same way resulting in their deaths. They are the only two that gave me any trouble.

Fozzie Bear wrote: »

I don't think the reputations some brands have are without justification. Maybe its changed in recent years but my father would never buy a French or Italian car. Now thats not down to good old fashioned racism or anything but simply when he was a young man these brands were notoriously unreliable bags of sheeite. I in turn have pretty much the same views on these brands given this and from what I have heard and read about them myself. I tend to stick to Japanese or German cars as I personally feel they are better built and more reliable in the main.

Assuming your father is over 35 then the japs wouldnt ave been great either. using his scale of "if it wasnt good when I was young it's not god now")

jayok

I was debating whether to respond to this or not. For example, it asks for "let you down" rather than say issues. I had "issues" with most cars I've had e.g. on our Honda CR-V the clutch squeaked when depressed and needed its Master Clutch cylinder replaced (under warranty). But the issue wouldn't leave me stuck on the side of the road (more annoying than anything else). Other issues I had with my owed cars were the same, except for I'm afraid out old Alfa 156. That did leave me (or more specifically the missus stranded) - only twice.

At 13K miles the coolant system sprung a massive leak - stuck in Waterford
At 18K miles the gearbox failed and couldn't be driven - stuck in Limerick
At 27k miles the oil seals failed - was able to top up oil and keep going

..none of these electrical.

But to be fair I'd have a skewed view of car ownership. We've owned

2 x Ford Fiesta
1 x Alfa 156
7 x Honda Civics
1 x Honda CR-V
1 x BMW 325
1 x Honda Stream

Why so many Hondas? After the Alfa the just keep going!

Rory123

I think that these days a fair amount of people on the side of the road scratching their heads with the bonnet up are doing so because they let their car run out of fuel or they ignored the oil light for too long. Half of the breakdowns I see seem to have someone setting off on foot, or coming back with a petrol can.
There are always early warning signs that a car is going to give up the ghost, such as a reluctance to start, unusual noises, warning light on dash, or lack of power. But people tend to ignore this and hope it just goes away because they don't want the inconvenience. But this makes the situation far worse.
So I think if people paid attention to the early warning signs that a car usually gives, there wouldn't be so many people stranded at the side of the road, with the potential for a far bigger repair bill.

I speak from experience when I say that a litre of oil is far far far cheaper that a reconditioned replacement engine! That happened when I just started driving as a young lad and it has been the best (but most expensive) motoring lesson I've learned!

Rory123

jayok wrote: »

I
2 x Ford Fiesta
1 x Alfa 156
7 x Honda Civics
1 x Honda CR-V
1 x BMW 325
1 x Honda Stream

Why so many Hondas? After the Alfa the just keep going!

Hi Jayok,
I like hondas alot but I was just wondering how you've had so many of them if they're so reliable (not being smart here, I personally think they are reliable). Is this over a very long period of time?
A lot of people would do well to go through 7 cars in their lifetime... let alone 7 models of the one car, along with all the others you've had!?

PCwiggum

I used to have a '96 Laguna that constantly let me down in the rain, no matter how carefully I "tiptoed" through the puddles, I'd always have to wait until it dried out - don't know how many times it had me late for work.

Anyway it was stolen from outside my house one night - I woulda left the keys in the ignition if I'd known they were coming. Luckily it was a dry night that night...:)

Guy:Incognito

PCwiggum wrote: »

I used to have a '96 Laguna that constantly let me down in the rain, no matter how carefully I "tiptoed" through the puddles, I'd always have to wait until it dried out - don't know how many times it had me late for work.

Would you not have got it checked (or at least checked yourself) after the first couple of times seeing as it is obviously the same poblem each time and would have be easier to just fix it?

PCwiggum

Stekelly wrote: »

Would you not have got it checked (or at least checked yourself) after the first couple of times seeing as it is obviously the same poblem each time and would have be easier to just fix it?

Yeah, had 2 different "mechanics" look at it, but it just happened again and again the next time it rained

I remember being told that it's a problem with these models and I'd just have to put up with it.

jayok

Rory123 wrote: »

Hi Jayok,
I like hondas alot but I was just wondering how you've had so many of them if they're so reliable (not being smart here, I personally think they are reliable). Is this over a very long period of time?
A lot of people would do well to go through 7 cars in their lifetime... let alone 7 models of the one car, along with all the others you've had!?

This is over an 11 year period and included two Civic's that my wife had a well. The models are/were (all 3 door hatchbacks)

99 Civic 1.4
98 Civic 1.5 (for the VTEC)
03 Civic 1.6 (wrote off the 98 Civic )
04 Civic 2.0
00 Civic 1.6 (DOHC VTi - for that B16A alone)

My wife had:
97 Civic 1.6 Coupe
03 Civic 1.6
02 CR-V

and now the
03 Stream 2.0

So there you have it - basically, I changed traded for the engine and experience. All gave good account - in retrospect it was silly money to throw away I know. Now I drive a 325Ci auto - old fart's car.

The reason for changing the CRV is expanding families means there's not enough space in the back of the CRV for them all. But it kills me to sell it - a great car.


I missthe VTi the most...

TwoShedsJackson

I'd be very reluctant to buy a Renault after hearing numerous stories and seeing firsthand the trouble my sister-in-law had with her 04 Megane. The electric windows have gone a couple of times and she's had a few other electrical-based problems - her mother reckons cars have 'too many feckin' computers in them now!!' and that's what causes the problems

Personally I've had two Astras, an 02 saloon and an 07 hatchback and have had no trouble whatsoever on either of them, at least that wasn't caused by someone rear-ending or trying to break into the 02 one :mad:

JHMEG

Only car that ever let me down was the 91 Integra... bust a bearing in the distributor. Had 234k kms on the clock but I suspect that it was closer to 300k in reality. The only car I owned that I'd buy back.

jayok wrote: »

I missthe VTi the most...

I'm selling it if you want to buy it back. 4 new tyres and freshly NCTed and taxed too!

E92

GTC wrote: »

You're kidding right?

We in Traffic Corps keep the cars absolutely perfectly maintained. We drive them hard, but drive them well, we're good to clutches and keep wheels tracked, balanced etc. Services at 1/2 normal intervals.

Yet we have Ford Mondeos eating clutches like they were made of ice-cream. Air conditioning failing (no matter how well kept) at ~100k miles. Front suspension is notorious. Interior handles etc., fall off like they're made of blu-tac. Ford Focuses (used in smaller stations) are still proving unreliable and awful to drive (1.4 is like floggin a dead horse (decomposing and very, very smelly horse at that)

BMWs with scores of glitches, Mercedes ministerial cars spending months in the shop, the only wagon that gave feck all trouble was a Toyota Camry 3.0V6 we had a year or so ago. The newer Vectra TDs are proving quite good, if a little blighted with silly glitches in the electrics.

JD Power surveys regularly put Japanese built cars in the top 10, (ignore euro-built Japanese badged cars) and I'd tend to stick to the Jap stuff myself.

All this having been said, a lot depends on what you're prepared to put up with. Some people ignore the quality of the car and idolise the number plate, its horses for courses IMO.

Interesting stuff. I heard that the Guards didn't want any more Toyotas as they weren't mechanically up to taking the abuse a Garda car takes. The Avensis didn't have the most durable gearbox apparently.

How come the Guards are still taking delivery of so many Fords(and Ford related produce like the Volvo S40) given what you're saying about them?

Guy:Incognito

E92 wrote: »

How come the Guards are still taking delivery of so many Fords(and Ford related produce like the Volvo S40) given what you're saying about them?

Maybe parts are cheap?

PaulKK

E92 wrote: »

How come the Guards are still taking delivery of so many Fords(and Ford related produce like the Volvo S40) given what you're saying about them?

They are cheap, and weren't they assembled in Ireland years ago too? Would make sense to buy cars that helped the economy here so maybe they continued the trend.

macnab

Heres a list of the cars I have owned so far with reliability comments.
BMW: 8 cars, 7 trouble free, but a '98 523i had Nikosil problems ('92 to '02)
Datsun: 2 cars, both suffered chassis rot (late 70's cars)
Fiat: 2 cars, gearbox iffy in both cars (mid 70's cars)
Lexus: 1 car, no problems ('93)
Mazda: 1 car, no problems ('89)
Mitsubishi: 1 jeep, no problems ('94)
Mercedes: 2 cars, minor fuel injection issues on both('91 & '01)
Nissan: 2 cars, no problems ('96 & '98)
Opel: 1 car, cam shaft wear ('93)
Renault: 6 cars, auto box rubbish, engine corrosion problems('82 to '98)
SSang yung: 1 jeep, tacky interior but fine otherwise. ('95)
Suzuki: 1 car, poor build quality but never broke down. ('89)
Toyota: 4 cars, bushings wear out fast but no break downs. ('90 to '99)
VW: 1 car & 1 van, no problems ('98 & '00)

GTC

E92 wrote: »

Interesting stuff. I heard that the Guards didn't want any more Toyotas as they weren't mechanically up to taking the abuse a Garda car takes. The Avensis didn't have the most durable gearbox apparently.

How come the Guards are still taking delivery of so many Fords(and Ford related produce like the Volvo S40) given what you're saying about them?

If you take the recent cancer screening test debacle as an indicator of the governments desire for quality, you might come up with an answer yourself.

IMHO, I reckon that somewhere, someplace, someone is taking a backhander for buying these Fords. I can fathom any other reason.

If they actually asked us what we'd like, then there might be something useful bought. I'd like a Honda Accord Traffic car, with the 3.5 V6 from the US. That might actually be up to the job. see http://automobiles.honda.com/accord-sedan/performance.aspx

As regards your comment re avensises (or avensi?) they are british built. And it shows :eek: See http://www.channel4.com/4car/di/toyota/avensis/2274/1 for build sites.

VH

E92 wrote: »

Interesting stuff. I heard that the Guards didn't want any more Toyotas as they weren't mechanically up to taking the abuse a Garda car takes. The Avensis didn't have the most durable gearbox apparently.

How come the Guards are still taking delivery of so many Fords(and Ford related produce like the Volvo S40) given what you're saying about them?

Their requirements are put to tender, and Ford etc are tendering. Simple as that.

GTC wrote:

I'd like a Honda Accord Traffic car,

Honda don't tender.

VH

VH wrote: »

Their requirements are put to tender, and Ford etc are tendering. Simple as that.


Honda don't tender.

Yep they are put up for tender.... remember the boys going on holidays paid for by the a certain motor company....or similiar shennanigans with the tyre replacement contract in DMR South

blackbox

Phaetonman wrote: »

See what you are asking for now is an impromptu reliability survey with a handful of respondants. Why not just rely on the proper ones?

Another thing to watch out for with reliabilty surveys is the % of people reporting faults for supposed unreliable cars might actually be fairly low.

Fair point Phaetonman, but I am trying to understand what people mean by unreliability these days. Some people consider cars to be unreliable if there is a problem with, for example, the air conditioning. I am more interested in finding out if (and why) people are unable to complete their journies.
I know that the results will not be totally scientific as people can be reluctant to say anything bad about the car they have chosen.

PS do you really have a Phaeton? I've only seen one once.

S.I.R

of my own accord-


My saab 9000 never broke.... needed repair but jesus christ , you'd have to burn crush and shoot it to make it die !!


my little 106 was another fine example , despite peugeots terrable reputation it was ok , the electronics didnt agree with it but with no radio in it the battery lasted 2-3 weeks.


familys cars.... -


my cusin has had a few primastar vans and there ok , 1 had a faulty gearbox ( factory error ) and one had a " ropey " clutch

isuzu trooper , i know many family members who have them..... there worthless second hand but by god will they last....


seen a 1989 trooper with 519k on the clock ( sneek peek through the window ).... if thats not proof of a good car , then nothing is.


eh my dad had a 320i and 325i e30 bmw.... best handling car ive ever been in not to mention with just a service he managed 225k miles before letting it go to another e30 nerd... i belive its up near ballinteer now.


he also had a ford fiesta van.... never stopped working just needed a new timing belt at 70k intervils as did brushings and the usual fiesta work... very easy to steal though

nissan primera - Most relyable car ever.... even when we drove it through the water trying to break it at a undisclosed breech in the south of ireland it wouldnt stop , we poured white spirites and die-sel in the tank , nothing happened , smacked the rocker cover with a matte... nothing


the only thing that actually happened was we burnt the front tyres to the rim then the clutch began to slip.... she was turned in coke cans after that


Just a few prime examples i remember

Cormic

I had a Fiat Punto that would not start at least twice a week. Dealer said there was nothing wrong with it. I traded it in as I'd had enough.