diet nutrition - Bagels

CTU_Agent

I've just read the first stickie and found it advises to avoid bagels, Ive only recently discovered bagels, and thought they were the healthy alternative to bread for a lunchtime meal. Am i wrong?

If so are there alternatives?

My usual bagel will usually include the following

Plain bagel
Chicken breast
Bit of bacon
Lettuce
Tomatoe
and toasted together with a fruit/yogurt smoothie...

I thought i was doing good eating that???

Hanley

It's certainly better than a big huge white bread sandwich covered in mayonaise.

It's all relative. Bagel > Sandwich, but Bagel < wrapping it all in lettuce.

A lot of the diet advice you see can be pretty unworkable at times in the real world.

CTU_Agent

is it better than a brown bread sandwich...without mayo.??

g'em

A discussion on bagels form the Nutrition and Diet Forum.

Hanley wrote: »

A lot of the diet advice you see can be pretty unworkable at times in the real world.

Indeed. If you're a lazy person that is. Making a wholemeal sandwich is no more difficult that toasting a bagel. Likewise preparing a salad is not difficult.

CTU_Agent

what do most people have for lunch?

Hanley

I assume you mean the people in good shape with a relatively low bodyfat%??

CTU_Agent

of course.

...People who try and eat healthily and excercise in the evenings, not so much those that are in training for whatever reason and have really strict diets and excercise 'regimes' but just regular joes/joettes who like to look after themselves....

Bearing in mind things like excessive fat intake, calories counts and sugars and the like and without become too obsessed with diet as I'm pretty small framed neway and just trying to burn some fat from tummy area..

What is recommended for lunch?

PS...MODS please move to diet/nutrition if you see fit...

Tiriel

Since the start of the 8 week challenge I've been having salads - with a boiled egg, lettuce, cucumber, tomato, spring onion and some tuna. Fills me up and is nice and tasty Otherwise, I'd have corncakes instead of bread, with hummus and salad or soup - once I know it's not packed with salt. Used to have bagels - wholegrain with salad prior to the challenge. Feel a lot more satisfied I have to say since I dropped them. I find it tough though to cut out bread etc. as it's something I love - don't have a problem with sweet things at all!

CTU_Agent

are u trying to lose weight 'cork-girl' or burn fat whilst maintaining a good weight...

If i tried following that diet, im sure I would lose a ton of weight I really cant afford to lose anyway...

U can see my prediciment, eat healtly, excercise regulary (cardio especially for the fat burning), but also maintain a resaonable level of calorie intake so my weight doesn't drop. with weight training to tone.

I too am like you, I like bread, not too much, but i used to like my toast in the morning, and my sandwich in the afternoon...

Tiriel

I want to lose about a stone - but it doesn't seem to be happening!! My diet is at the best it has ever been, no processed junk and lots of vegetables/salad. Weight has barely budged 4lbs since the start of the 8 week challenge! Bread has a huge impact though - I had a few slices of bread one weekend and balooned, so it really really does make a huge difference to me. Salads and soup give me energy and are a lot more satisfying than I ever thought they would be!!

CTU_Agent

are you combining an excercise programme with your diet? I find the quickest not so much easiest way is to walk or better yet run for about 30 mins 2 or 3 times a week...

After the first couple of weeks, not only do u feel better but results come quickly and lbs drop..

Tiriel

Yep have been exercising for 1hr 4/5 times a week. My log is in the Fitness Logs - but in general it's gym combined with classes including cardio, weights and core work. Trying to improve my jogging ability and am going to start a programme as recommended by Xebec here on boards next Monday! I find that I have toned up a lot - but there's still a layer over the muscle! Would like to be more lean..

mack1

CTU_Agent wrote: »

are u trying to lose weight 'cork-girl' or burn fat whilst maintaining a good weight...

If i tried following that diet, im sure I would lose a ton of weight I really cant afford to lose anyway...

U can see my prediciment, eat healtly, excercise regulary (cardio especially for the fat burning), but also maintain a resaonable level of calorie intake so my weight doesn't drop. with weight training to tone.

I too am like you, I like bread, not too much, but i used to like my toast in the morning, and my sandwich in the afternoon...

Are you lifting weights? If not you should, much better for fat burning that cardio.

If I was you I would stay away from anything bread like unless it's breakfast or before/after exercise. For lunch I usually have a piece of chicking or fish and a salad.

Pat McGhee

Cork_girl wrote: »

Since the start of the 8 week challenge I've been having salads - with a boiled egg, lettuce, cucumber, tomato, spring onion and some tuna. Fills me up and is nice and tasty Otherwise, I'd have corncakes instead of bread, with hummus and salad or soup - once I know it's not packed with salt. Used to have bagels - wholegrain with salad prior to the challenge. Feel a lot more satisfied I have to say since I dropped them. I find it tough though to cut out bread etc. as it's something I love - don't have a problem with sweet things at all!

Can I ask about this, where can I find info/regime? I've not heard of it but I'd really like to shed some lbs before my hols in August but I just can't seem to stick to a calorie controlled diet!

Tiriel

Info is all in the stickies in the Fitness forum. G'em put a lot of hard work into it and there's great advice - nutrition wise as well as general lifestyle choices. Really worth reading. I'm certainly hoping we'll be starting up another one as it has been a huge help in motivating me to make the right choices!! Best of luck!

cozmik

From the Diet and Nutrition sticky

g'em wrote: »

just to help out anyone who's a little stuck or confused about how they should be eating, or even how to provide themselves with the food they need, I've put together a basic 'shopping list' of good foods that should help you get on the right track.

Supermarket items:
wholemeal pitta bread
wholemeal/ seeded bread/ bagels

hth

g'em

cozmik wrote: »

hth

Helps in what way exactly?

Hanley said it well:

It's all relative. Bagel > Sandwich, but Bagel < wrapping it all in lettuce.

OP if you're looking to lose fat confine your carb intake to right before/ right after your workout as this is the time when your body can put those foods to best use. In this context, bagels are fine.

But for lunch or other regular meals when you aren't looking for a pre- or post-exercise energy boost bagels will tend to provide a calorie-dense meal and given that bagels tend to be highly processed and nutritional lacking (wholemeal or seeded bagels are better than white ones) they can mess with your insulin levels which, besides post-workout, you don't want.

This is, at the end of the day though, one of those minutiae that really only needs to be worried about if the rest of your diet is spot on.

cozmik

g'em wrote: »

Helps in what way exactly?

Helps with the question the OP put forward perhaps?

CTU_Agent wrote: »

I've just read the first stickie and found it advises to avoid bagels, Ive only recently discovered bagels, and thought they were the healthy alternative to bread for a lunchtime meal. Am i wrong?

your words

just to help out anyone who's a little stuck or confused about how they should be eating, or even how to provide themselves with the food they need, I've put together a basic 'shopping list' of good foods that should help you get on the right track.

bagels are on your list of good foods so the OP should not need to avoid them.

Supermarket items:
wholemeal pitta bread
wholemeal/ seeded bread/ bagels

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054886861

regards

cozmik

g'em

cozmik wrote: »

Helps with the question the OP put forward perhaps?

It makes life a lot easier for everyone involved if you take the time to expand on your posts a little bit.

cozmik wrote:

your words

I have lots of them, I've been reading a dictionary of late.

cozmik wrote:

bagels are on your list of good foods so the OP should not need to avoid them.

It's all about context, see my post above. Likewise sugar, at the right time, is a good food, but it's a contextual 'good'.

Newaglish

Just to throw some nonsense into this thread: I read in the Star Sunday's "A-Men" magazine yesterday that bagels have three times more fat/calories (can't remember which) than a normal sandwich.

Be this true?!

rubadub

Newaglish wrote: »

Just to throw some nonsense into this thread: I read in the Star Sunday's "A-Men" magazine yesterday that bagels have three times more fat/calories (can't remember which) than a normal sandwich.

Be this true?!

If the portion size is around 3 times as big, then yes

That is what really bugs me about vague stats or statements like that. People here post up diets all the time that could be 500 or 5000kcal, there is no way to tell, a scales is essential. All the info is right there on the packets these days, if yours doesnt have it then pick a similar item and check it.

I can sit down to a half chicken with lettuce and salad cream in work and get comments about "eating so much" or being a pig. Yet the people making the comments can be eating a "normal sandwich" with 2-3 times the calories that I am eating, completely oblivious. I have seen lads thinking they were "dieting" sitting down to lunches well over 1000kcal.

You would swear it is a secret or something, all the info there on the packets.

OP- just ditch the bread altogether, bring in some ham or chicken and just use iceberg lettuce as a wrap.

cozmik

g'em wrote: »

It's all about context, see my post above. Likewise sugar, at the right time, is a good food, but it's a contextual 'good'.

oic lol

Sounds more like backpedaling to cover up your sloppy advice in the stickies but we’ll just say “ok” and leave it be.

regards

cozmik

rubadub

The OP said "plain bagel", which to me reads white bread. g'em was talking about wholemeal, a far better choice. Many can/will not do without bread so a wholemeal bagel is a better choice than white. It is quite calorie dense though so the OP should really take this into account. I like burgers but the roll has as many calories as the meat, so I choose 2 burgers and no rolls, just eat them with salad.

Giving up bread is quite hard since many are so used to it. I am back on it more these days since I am not longer really trying to lose much fat.

If you want your "bread fix", then ryvitas are a great choice, the sesame ones are lovely, they weigh only about 10g each, 34kcal each for sesame, a little higher due to the sesame oil.. I put cream cheese on them and top with ham. Or put tomato puree and cheese and make mini pizzas. 1 bagel has a the same calories as around 8 ryvitas, doesn't look half as substantial on a plate though.

cozmik

rubadub wrote: »

If you want your "bread fix", then ryvitas are a great choice,

Better than a bagel perhaps but I wouldn't call them a great choice.

Whole Wheat, Sourdough Rye, Wholegrain Pumpernickel, Soya and Linseed are far better choices for a "bread fix".

g'em

cozmik wrote: »

oic lol

Sounds more like backpedaling to cover up your sloppy advice in the stickies but we’ll just say “ok” and leave it be.

regards

cozmik

If you'd like to try and write something better, please feel free. Or are you quite content taking the easy option pointing and finding fault?

cozmik

g'em wrote: »

If you'd like to try and write something better, please feel free. Or are you quite content taking the easy option pointing and finding fault?

If we were only allowed to criticise people doing jobs that we are able to do ourselves, then 99% of the population shouldn't ever vote in an election.

In other words g'em, "let's see you do better" is not a valid response to criticism of poor work.

The issue isn't whether I could do better. The issue is that you should have done better -- especially when your credentials suggest you are capable of doing better.

Trust me, the only way you can improve is if you learn to take the criticism and work with it.

regards

cozmik

BraziliaNZ

there seemed to be some kind of bagel epidemic in Dublin before I left, at lunchtime the bagel joints would be out the door with customers. I got one once and it was tiny and unfulfilling. Wholemeal bread - 2 slices a day wont kill you.

g'em

cozmik wrote: »

If we were only allowed to criticise people doing jobs that we are able to do ourselves, then 99% of the population shouldn't ever vote in an election.

In other words g'em, "let's see you do better" is not a valid response to criticism of poor work.

The issue isn't whether I could do better. The issue is that you should have done better -- especially when your credentials suggest you are capable of doing better.

Trust me, the only way you can improve is if you learn to take the criticism and work with it.

regards

cozmik

on your high horse much?

cozmik I'm really not sure where all this is coming from but my response was not "lets see you do better" it was simply if you feel the stickies could be improved then why not be proactive about it. Criticism for the sake of criticism is a bit lame, but constructive criticism I will always pay attention to.

Are the stickies perfect? God no, I'm learning new information every day and try to update the information I have provided where possible. However, I'll stand by the addition of bagels in the stickie as is, given that, as rubadub pointed out it was inferred that I was referring to the wholemeal kind and not the plain ones.

If you have further criticisms, please feel free to let me know. But I would appreciate either constructive comments or take it to PM because I don't see how this is conducive to discussing the topic at hand.

Dragan

cozmik wrote: »

oic lol

Sounds more like backpedaling to cover up your sloppy advice in the stickies but we’ll just say “ok” and leave it be.

regards

cozmik

Less attitude. If you talked to another poster the way you have spoken to g'em i'd ban you.

Be nice or be gone.

Your choice.

Also, i ****ing hate that wink smiley, because i know i use it when i am being a condescending and cheeky bastard. So less of that too.

General rule is attack the post, not the poster. Accusations of "back pedaling" and "sloppy work" can be taking as an attempt to undermine someone.

rubberduckey

A quick note regarding criticisim of G'ems advise.

Just so g'em doesnt get disheartened i have found her advice on nutrition and fitness to be top-notch.

Has definitely helped keep me going.

Especially eye opening(for me) has been her range of knowledge on nutrition and her willingness to help fellow posters.

Also i'm sure that a lot of participants in the 8 week challenge are hugely grateful to G'em for organising.

Thanks again.

g'em

Thanks rubberduckey !!

tbh, I genuinely have no issues if people point out that there are mistakes in the stickies - some of them were written over two years ago and there may be out of date info in there. So if there is things that folk feel should be modified (for any of the stickies) then just let us know or start a discussion thread about it, I'll be all ears. But like I said before, beign constructive about criticism generally tends to be a lot better received than pointing and finding fault with someone's work.

With that, I think I'm going to close this thread as it's beginning to go wildly OT. cozmik, if you feel the need to continue this conversation send me a PM and if you have ideas as to how to improve on the infromation in the forum just send them on. Politely pls.