Would you cheat?

degausserxo

Given the oppertunity, if you definitely knew you were going to get away with it, would you cheat on the L.C? Or any exam for that matter. I'm just finishing 5th year, and started summer exams today. There're two higher Irish classes in my year, one with about 30 and one with 12(which I'm in). The class of 30 are more of a borderline ordinary class though, but some do definitely want to do higher. The results of our summer exam determine what class we're gonna be in (we did the same exam, but my class are expected to get A's), so basically the top 20 results stay in higher, the rest ordinary(I know they can't decide for you, but that's beside the point of what I'm gonna say... if I ever get to it) but there're a few people who cheated the entire exam. We were told of four higher, four ordinary poems that may come up, but we only had questions on two of each, and ditto with two stories, so people already had essay questions written out, as well as other essays. It's pretty ridiculous that people are trying to stay in a class purely cause it's higher lever, when they clearly won't put in the work, and in doing so stopping someone else who actually gives a crap about the subject from doing it.

Anyway, back the the point! Would you cheat on the L.C?

titan18

How is writing out an answer to a question cheating.I presume you mean that they are going to take it into the exam and copy it out.

Yes,if I would definately get away it,I would cheat.As that cant happen though,I wont cheat

degausserxo

Yeah, I meant taking it in and handing it up like.

BJC

Cheated maths in the the JC and will cheat the LC aswell!

Cokehead Mother

titan18 wrote: »

Yes,if I would definately get away it,I would cheat.As that cant happen though,I wont cheat

If you're not stupid, you can get away with it. I wouldn't cheat.

Alanstrainor

BJC wrote: »

Cheated maths in the the JC and will cheat the LC aswell!

You do realise what will happen if you're caught?
You have to be pretty stupid to cheat on something like that, where you could probably learn what notes you're planning on reading in the jacks off the night before in about 10 minutes.

PurpleFistMixer

If you're competing for places, cheating is extremely selfish. Why, if you've done no work, should you deserve a place over someone who's worked hard for it? It's just laziness.

Dabko

cheated in my junior cert, cheated in my leaving cert, cheated in my college exams. Having a grand aul time in life too!

F**k it, follow the rules in life, you may have a clean conscience but thats about it.

Remember, plan the cheat, cover every possible angle and scenario. Have your lies ready in case you get busted. Cheating is not for stupid people, don't ever be fooled by that!!

Best of luck!

muboop1

iv tried to cheat, but like person b4 me i wouldnt do it blindly, but having it perfect takes alot of effort,,, whatever im cheating for,,, i usualy end up learning it by mistake before the exam when im preparing to cheat,,, so no i never have

effort iv put into the cheat was waste, should of just learned it first time, would been easier.. and no risk!

cHaTbOx

PurpleFistMixer wrote: »

If you're competing for places, cheating is extremely selfish. Why, if you've done no work, should you deserve a place over someone who's worked hard for it? It's just laziness.

+1
If you're not going to work for it , do you really want it? Selfish and lazy , someone spends hours learning something and you just take a piece of paper or something into the exam instead of learning it. It's not right and do really want to get a grade that is deserved or one tainted in deceit.Also if you need it in the future you are stuuck because this is information you shoud have learned and you will end up being behind.

tribulus

random chatbox wrote: »

+1
If you're not going to work for it , do you really want it? Selfish and lazy , someone spends hours learning something and you just take a piece of paper or something into the exam instead of learning it. It's not right and do really want to get a grade that is deserved or one tainted in deceit.Also if you need it in the future you are stuuck because this is information you shoud have learned and you will end up being behind.

I know quite a few people who cheated in their LC and some who did in their college exams too. It mightn't have made a difference to their grade or it might have but their future employers won't know the difference and that bit of cheating could make the difference between the 5 extra points to get their college course or the extra mark to get them a 2.1 degree they need for a graduate program or whatever.

I'm certainly not saying it's right just that it's quite commonplace in my experience (speaking more so about college) and that the people involved really could care less whether their results or degree was tainted because it got them what they wanted.

BJC

PurpleFistMixer wrote: »

If you're competing for places, cheating is extremely selfish.

Of course it's selfish, if it wasn't for personal benefit what the hell would be the point? Sometimes it's just about advancing yourself in life however possible (notice I said sometimes)

Alanstrainor wrote: »

You do realise what will happen if you're caught?
You have to be pretty stupid to cheat on something like that, where you could probably learn what notes you're planning on reading in the jacks off the night before in about 10 minutes.

Fact of the matter is that even if you were stupid enough to get caught, 9 times out of 10 the examiner just takes the cheating material and warns you. He/She knows you're screwed if they cancel your exam and so it rarely happens.

And if you can learn off every maths formula not in the log tables that are currently written on the back of my calculator then my congratulations, you're a better man than me.

Dabko wrote: »

F**k it, follow the rules in life, you may have a clean conscience but thats about it.

Remember, plan the cheat, cover every possible angle and scenario. Have your lies ready in case you get busted. Cheating is not for stupid people, don't ever be fooled by that!!

There's a man with vision!

BJC

random chatbox wrote: »

If you're not going to work for it , do you really want it?

No, I do not want to to know the majority of useless sh*te that is in the current maths curriculum but I am required to answer to pass my exams.

random chatbox wrote: »

Do really want to get a grade that is deserved or one tainted in deceit.

Either one works for me mate

random chatbox wrote: »

Also if you need it in the future you are stuuck because this is information you shoud have learned and you will end up being behind.

Depends entirely with what you want to do, I hope to do elements of geography in college, possibly in arts and I would never consider cheating on a geography exam, mostly because I get all A's in it but the interest alone should stop you from cheating. If you end up doing something in your future that you cheated on in your past then you know you chose the wrong path in life.

PurpleFistMixer

BJC wrote: »

Of course it's selfish, if it wasn't for personal benefit what the hell would be the point? Sometimes it's just about advancing yourself in life however possible (notice I said sometimes)

Not everything in life is about personal benefit. Maybe it's because I've never been in a situation where I've needed to cheat, but I'd rather retain my integrity and be happy in the knowledge that I haven't screwed over other, honest people, to get where I am in life.

BJC wrote: »

And if you can learn off every maths formula not in the log tables that are currently written on the back of my calculator then my congratulations, you're a better man than me.

The course is designed to be doable. If you're in a situation where you can't do it, you must ask yourself some questions;
1) Have I worked hard? and if so,
2) Am I doing the right level?

tribulus

PurpleFistMixer wrote: »

Not everything in life is about personal benefit. Maybe it's because I've never been in a situation where I've needed to cheat, but I'd rather retain my integrity and be happy in the knowledge that I haven't screwed over other, honest people, to get where I am in life.

I would agree but the point I was trying to make is that (in my experience again) have came across a surprisingly large amount of people that don't or won't think like that. What's a little guilt compared to a lifetime of working in the job you settled for rather than the one you really wanted?

That's probably an extreme example but it becomes more justifiable thinking about it that way I'd imagine.

BJC

PurpleFistMixer wrote: »

Not everything in life is about personal benefit.

I recognise that, but your LC is and thats all this is about, do not quote generics at me, Im not talking about robbing coats off homeless people.

PurpleFistMixer wrote: »

I'd rather retain my integrity

If you don't feel any guilt whatsoever about it and no-one ever finds out, then your integrity remains intact....if a tree falls in the woods..etc...

PurpleFistMixer wrote: »

The course is designed to be doable.

The course is designed to challenge depending on your ability, I however reject the schematics laid down to me by the board of education and attain every goal I want to.

PurpleFistMixer wrote: »

If you're in a situation where you can't do it, you must ask yourself some questions;
1) Have I worked hard? and if so,
2) Am I doing the right level?

A.1) No, not in that subject because I don't need it for points.
A.2) I'm doing ordinary level maths, if colleges accepted foundation level I would happily do it.

tribulus

https://myucd.ucd.ie/admission/entry_ug.ezc

You don't need maths at all for some things!

BJC

tribulus wrote: »

https://myucd.ucd.ie/admission/entry_ug.ezc

You don't need maths at all for some things!

What I want to do does.

Alanstrainor

BJC wrote: »

Fact of the matter is that even if you were stupid enough to get caught, 9 times out of 10 the examiner just takes the cheating material and warns you. He/She knows you're screwed if they cancel your exam and so it rarely happens.

And if you can learn off every maths formula not in the log tables that are currently written on the back of my calculator then my congratulations, you're a better man than me.

You are incredibly childish, and i hope you pay for these selfish and childish risks. Are you seriously telling m that you cannot learn off the relatively small number of formulae written on the back of your calculator?
If you cannot then you've probably got a lot more to worry about come June.

bUILDERtHEbOB

Why do people care whether other people cheat or not?

tribulus

bUILDERtHEbOB wrote: »

Why do people care whether other people cheat or not?

Because they want to believe that only people who put in the hard work and have integrity will achieve what they want in life?

And that the cheaters will eventually be found out either academically or during their career. Something like that I'm guessing.

sd123

Last year when I sat my LC, a good few people in the year cheated, I cant blame them to be honest because it was so easy to get away with, the examiner walked out of my physics exam. The exact same guy gave everyone about 20-25 mins extra in each exam. Also, if you went to the toilet, there could be books thrown around the place, hid in toilet cisterns/above the ceiling, etc. It's all too easy to cheat if you want to, and I found out that a girl in my college course cheated in a few of her exams, which I find really unfair seeing how hard everyone else worked to get into the course.
I'd never cheat, I believe that at least a bad grade has some positive effect in that you get a right kick in the balls and you study more for the next exam. Oh ye, plus if you get caught cheating in the LC theres fairly severe punishments, can't remember them offhand atm.
Good luck to everyone sitting the LC :pac:

bUILDERtHEbOB

tribulus wrote: »

Because they want to believe that only people who put in the hard work and have integrity will achieve what they want in life?

And that the cheaters will eventually be found out either academically or during their career. Something like that I'm guessing.

Why would somone care that some random posting on a message board is going to get found out in future life?

Fad

ive posted it before and i ll post it again,

i was the (ya know bring people over to the toilet, tea and biscuits for the examiner person) supervisor, for the exams, and theres nothing you can do but watch while id say 40% of the people in the exam centre cheated!. it was outrageous but still theres nothing you can do (well you could tell the examiner but whatd be the point?)

tribulus

I don't mean found out that they cheated on an exam but that maybe they like to think the cheaters lack of effort or bad moral choices will come back to bite them in the ass down the line when they're in college or working and are incompetent at what they do (which is perhaps a little naive though you could argue otherwise).

To be fair I used to think the same but after doing my LC and now college I quickly stopped looking through rose tinted glasses and realised that the cheaters will get away with it 99% of the time, the benefit of actually cheating will probably be marginal at best and that in a few years no one really gives a crap anyway!

BJC

Alanstrainor wrote: »

You are incredibly childish, and i hope you pay for these selfish and childish risks.

Keep your personal attacks to yourself. I disagree with you but I am not attacking you. Maths is my weak point but I am a straight A/B student in my other 6 subjects. I will cheat, I will pass and I will get ahead in life, all with less effort than I technically had to. That's what matters.

Delphi91

BJC wrote: »

...Fact of the matter is that even if you were stupid enough to get caught, 9 times out of 10 the examiner just takes the cheating material and warns you. He/She knows you're screwed if they cancel your exam and so it rarely happens....

And you have factual evidence for all this???? Especially the "rarely happens" part.

To be honest, and I'm speaking as a supervisor of state exams here, if you cheat and you're "stupid enough to get caught", you deserve to lose the exam result in that subject.

I will cheat, I will pass and I will get ahead in life, all with less effort than I technically had to. That's what matters.

Interesting attitude!

BJC

I say that because when I did my junior cert two people got caught cheating and were reprimanded but their exams were not confiscated.
I agree with you though, If I got caught I would deserve the full punishment, banning of all state exams for 10 years or something isn't it, including the guards?
It's a risk I take though and not much of one really since the formulae are well hidden.

PurpleFistMixer

BJC wrote: »

If you don't feel any guilt whatsoever about it and no-one ever finds out, then your integrity remains intact....if a tree falls in the woods..etc...

Personal integrity. Though, perhaps my choice of word was wrong there, if you don't have any belief in honesty in the first place, then cheating isn't going to do much more damage to your integrity. Still, I'm sure it would cheapen my personal satisfaction at attaining good grades had I cheated. I got 100% in my art history mock but I don't feel any sense of achievement because we were told which topics were going to be on it.

BJC wrote: »

A.1) No, not in that subject because I don't need it for points.
A.2) I'm doing ordinary level maths, if colleges accepted foundation level I would happily do it.

You may not need it for points, but if you need to cheat to avoid failing, you're obviously not working enough. That said, I don't agree with people being forced to do a subject that has absolutely nothing to do with their course of preference (though numeracy is a bit useful). However if you're doing Geography in college, having basic maths skills might be an idea.

BJC

Delphi91 wrote: »

Interesting attitude!

As I have said in at least one of my posts I mean that in relation to the LC. I'm not going to kill my grandparents for inheritance.

JC 2K3

BJC, you have to cheat to pass OL maths?

rofl

tramoredude

Cheating in the Leaving Cert is all kinds of stupid, Surely it would be easier learn the few lines of notes / formulae that are on the cheat notes than risk getting banned from the Leaving Cert?

BJC

PurpleFistMixer wrote: »

If you don't have any belief in honesty in the first place, then cheating isn't going to do much more damage to your integrity.

One more you are speaking generically, I am willing to cheat in a maths exam and so you have deemed that I don't have any belief in honesty, that's a terrible stereotype to put on me. I'm sure you have lied or cheated or stole at some time or other in your life but I wouldn't be so brazen as to say you are irrevocably immoral and dishonest.

PurpleFistMixer wrote: »

However if you're doing Geography in college, having basic maths skills might be an idea.

Numeracy is not my problem with maths, I have an LD in relation to the mathamatical written symbol system and the language of math.

BJC

JC 2K3 wrote: »

BJC, you have to cheat to pass OL maths?

rofl

I'm terribly sorry that my mathematical capabilities aren't up to your standards and that I don't fit in to the stereotype that OL Maths is easy for everyone.

Alanstrainor

BJC wrote: »

I'm terribly sorry that my mathematical capabilities aren't up to your standards and that I don't fit in to the stereotype that OL Maths is easy for everyone.

What has mathematical ability got to do with it when it comes down to learning off generic formulae?
I did honours maths last year and even that had very little formulae to learn off, it's all about problem solving and applying mathematical principles to problems.
Why risk it? when it is something that if you go over twice between now and the LC you'll learn.

JC 2K3

I think you're just lazy tbh.

You said you cheated in the JC too, so I think it's reasonable to assume that you haven't put much effort into trying to understand/learn maths, assuming that you can just cheat again and pass.

And PFM is right, you have no belief in honesty. No one is perfect, but there's a difference between the odd bad deed now and again and a calculated, pre-planned attempt to cheat in a state exam.

What if you end up getting a place in your course over someone who worked their ass off to pass maths, but got lower points overall?

BJC

Alanstrainor wrote: »

What has mathematical ability got to do with it when it comes down to learning off generic formulae?
I did honours maths last year and even that had very little formulae to learn off, it's all about problem solving and applying mathematical principles to problems.
Why risk it? when it is something that if you go over twice between now and the LC you'll learn.

I have already answered those questions in a previous post. I'd like to get off this Brian bashing register (Brian being me).
If you don't agree with a wee bit of cheating in the LC then that's fine, don't cheat and keep a clear conscience.

dancingqueen

If you get caught cheating you'll never get to sit a state exam again - that includes college exams. Just be a man/woman and fecking learn the stuff and do your best. That's all anyone can do...

JC 2K3

There's no point not just cheating and keeping a clear conscience if you disagree with it. Those who cheat should be condemned. The Leaving Cert is a competition for places at Third Level, not an entry requirement. Cheating is unfair on others who actually work to do well.

dancingqueen

JC 2K3 wrote: »

There's no point not just cheating and keeping a clear conscience if you disagree with it. Those who cheat should be condemned. The Leaving Cert is a competition for places at Third Level, not an entry requirement. Cheating is unfair on others who actually work to do well.

Couldn't agree more

BJC

JC 2K3 wrote: »

There's no point not just cheating and keeping a clear conscience if you disagree with it. Those who cheat should be condemned. The Leaving Cert is a competition for places at Third Level, not an entry requirement. Cheating is unfair on others who actually work to do well.

Yeah, that is a fair point, I can accept your condemnation. I guess the issue is that it doesn't bother me to cheat to "gaurantee" my place in third level, I'm looking out for myself, simply and selfishly, I don't deny that. I've always needed extra help with maths but in saying that I would most likely pass without the formulae all written out, call it an insurance policy.

Delphi91

Surely if you have a LD with respect to maths formulae, you are entitled to a Special Accomodation in relation to this LD? If that is the case, then why the need to cheat?

What I have a problem with (apart from the admission that you cheated in the JC) is that you are quite open in stating that you WILL cheat in the LC.

I've seen a few strange comments on here in relation to the penalties for cheating. Note the following-

In relation to calculators:

Candidates are not allowed to take an instruction manual into the examination hall. This includes instructions printed on the cover of the calculator. Any instructions printed on a casing that cannot be removed from the calculator must be securely covered.

In relation to the penalties for violation of the exam regulations:

Where the Commission is of the opinion that any candidate has violated any of these Rules, has attempted to obtain an examination result to which the candidate is not entitled, or has uttered or attempted to utter such a result or has furnished incorrect information in relation to his/her candidature, such candidate shall be liable to be deprived of the examination or of marks, or to have such deduction made as the Commission may think fit from any sum payable in respect of any grant or scholarship obtained by the candidate, according to the opinion which the Commission may form of the gravity of the offence; and the Commission may, if the Commission thinks fit, publish the candidate's name and address, as given in the notice of intention to present for examination, as those of a candidate who has been so deprived and the Commission may, according to the opinion of the Commission as to the gravity of the offence, debar the candidate from entering for any of the examinations run by the State Examinations Commission for such period as the Commission may determine.

The above is taken from General Candidate Information on the State Examinations Commission website.

Don't use the example of the 2 people who just got a reprimand in the JC as a guarantee that the same would happen to anyone who got caught.

BJC

Delphi91 wrote: »

Surely if you have a LD with respect to maths formulae, you are entitled to a Special Accomodation in relation to this LD? If that is the case, then why the need to cheat?

I'm not deemed a severe enough case for a special accomadation, it's great when people make these decisions for you..

Delphi91 wrote: »

What I have a problem with (apart from the admission that you cheated in the JC) is that you are quite open in stating that you WILL cheat in the LC.

I suppose it comes down to ethics, you wouldn't be willing to do it, I am.

Delphi91 wrote: »

Don't use the example of the 2 people who just got a reprimand in the JC as a guarantee that the same would happen to anyone who got caught.

They were examples really, If you saw my calculator you would see the pros far outweigh the cons.

PurpleFistMixer

There's three weeks left to the LC, or thereabouts. Maybe I'm mad, but that's plenty of time to learn enough formulae that can fit onto a calculator. It's just laziness not to do it.

Overheal

PurpleFistMixer wrote: »

There's three weeks left to the LC, or thereabouts. Maybe I'm mad, but that's plenty of time to learn enough formulae that can fit onto a calculator. It's just laziness not to do it.

Yup.

You can fit about half a page of information into the back of a calculator.

But its half a page you could otherwise learn off.

Besides that some examiners will inspect calculators before the start of the test. You can get caught out. So help you if you get caught out AFTER the exam starts - but you can still get in serious **** for attempting it in the first place.

boobookitty

JC 2K3 wrote: »

BJC, you have to cheat to pass OL maths?

rofl

I know what you're saying but that's still pretty harsh.

A lot of my people in my year just don't get maths. One of our OL classes failed their pres. Yep, everyone.


Um, BJC you only need to know like 12 formulas? No biggy.

1huge1

To be honest if I could cheat and know I wouldnt get caught I'd do it, well only if I wouldn't of gotten the points I need otherwise...

No way I'm repeating like.

Noodleworm

Id cheat a little if I could.
I know there's plenty of nice people who just say put in the work, but luckily for them, study has effect and they don't spend hours getting really stressed out reciting jumbles of letters and numbers to themselves for hours. Leaving them unmotivated and with significantly lower self esteem.
If I have difficulty learning a broad range of topics I have no interest in does that mean I don't deserve to be able to study something I enjoy and have an aptitude for?

JC 2K3

Noodleworm wrote: »

If I have difficulty learning a broad range of topics I have no interest in does that mean I don't deserve to be able to study something I enjoy and have an aptitude for?

Yes, because otherwise our education system would produce too many narrowly educated people. The split between Arts and Science-based subjects in universities is bad enough as it is.

If you have a genuine learning disability, that gets taken into consideration.

Having no interest is not an excuse and equates to laziness IMO.

Davidius

I would never cheat for obvious reasons.

The main one being because I'm too cool.

degausserxo

Dabko wrote: »

Cheating is not for stupid people

Clearly it's not for smart people either.