Whats a sustainable ROI in iPoker Super Turbo SnGs??

boba_fett3099

As the title says..

Whats a sustainable ROI in these? Blinds go up every minute. I will be playing over 500 a week, starting at the $20 level, for the next month.

Cheers.

ITT-Pat

yours i'd say would be about 8%, mine would be ~15%

boba_fett3099

obv..

zuutroy

I just played one of these. As far from poker while still being poker as is possible. Why would you voluntarily choose these as your game?

NickyOD

you haven't said what the buy-in is yet. That would be kind of important.

zuutroy

NickyOD wrote: »

you haven't said what the buy-in is yet. That would be kind of important.

Its in the OP :pac:

NickyOD

zuutroy wrote: »

Its in the OP :pac:

Ah jeez. and I've only had 2 bottles of bud. ridiculous.

At $20 I'd say 10% going down to 2% at the $100 level even for a very good player.

Iago

I think 10% is optimistic in these games, better off playing roulette

zuutroy

NickyOD wrote: »

Ah jeez. and I've only had 2 bottles of bud. ridiculous.

At $20 I'd say 10% going down to 2% at the $100 level even for a very good player.

Do you really think its possible to have an edge in these things

EDIT: I just took down the 50man I played...cleary there is an edge.

bohsman

I havent played the iPoker versions but theres massive value around these levels on microgaming(blinds up every 2 hands, should be close enough) Im guessing ipokers the same, so many people are happy to fold for 75% of their stacks to try to limp into the money. That said its soul destroying and will do nothing to improve your game, the downswings can be horrible.

If you are getting staked fair enough but if its your own money, grind 50NL and fly up the levels clearing bonuses and getting rakeback.

If you really want to play turbo sngs make sure you're getting rakeback and look out for sng leagues. Id agree with Pat, 8% sounds about right.

NickyOD

zuutroy wrote: »

Do you really think its possible to have an edge in these things

EDIT: I just took down the 50man I played...cleary there is an edge.

Of course there is an edge. You beat them through superior hand selection and shoving pre-flop at t he right time, where-as worse players overcall, overshove, fold too much, limp too much, etc etc etc.

Obviously your edge is smaller because you need to pick up a hand early to stay alive and you're forced to gamble all the time, but if your ICM calcs are spot on you should basically crush the smaller stakes at these in the long term.

boba_fett3099

bohsman wrote: »

I havent played the iPoker versions but theres massive value around these levels on microgaming(blinds up every 2 hands, should be close enough) Im guessing ipokers the same, so many people are happy to fold for 75% of their stacks to try to limp into the money. That said its soul destroying and will do nothing to improve your game, the downswings can be horrible.

If you are getting staked fair enough but if its your own money, grind 50NL and fly up the levels clearing bonuses and getting rakeback.

If you really want to play turbo sngs make sure you're getting rakeback and look out for sng leagues. Id agree with Pat, 8% sounds about right.

I actually will be getting staked in these but im trying to figure out if its worth my time. Backer keeps all the rakeback and I get 100% of the profit. What dopeople think of this deal??

bops

boba_fett3099 wrote: »

I actually will be getting staked in these but im trying to figure out if its worth my time. Backer keeps all the rakeback and I get 100% of the profit. What dopeople think of this deal??

i hope your backer understands how sick the varience can be in these - a $2k downswing would be pretty standard

in saying that, if you play enough of these yokes over a sustained period, you will obv have a (small) edge over the field (no offence with the small ref, but you can only have a small edge in these total crapshoots if ya get me), and therefore should make a positive return - imo 5% roi over a large sample would be fair enough (which is more than your backer will be getting, and he's taking all the risk - therefore a sweet deal)

gl and hopefully you won't go insane!

edit quick rough math - return of $500 per week for 25 hrs 8 tabling??

bohsman

You are basically giving up $500 a week in rb. As staking deals go its not bad but at that level Id prefer to work for a week or 2 and play off my own tank.

boba_fett3099

My backer seems to think 10% is easily sustainable but i wasn't so sure. Cheers bops!

bohsman

bops wrote: »

i hope your backer understands how sick the varience can be in these - a $2k downswing would be pretty standard

100 buyin downswing? Seriously?

bops

bohsman wrote: »

You are basically giving up $500 a week in rb. As staking deals go its not bad but at that level Id prefer to work for a week or 2 and play off my own tank.

use your head - do the deal for 2 months, if it's all going well, go it alone and say tyvm (if you don't have the roll by then...)

bops

bohsman wrote: »

100 buyin downswing? Seriously?

100 buyin downswing is but a scratch - seriously! these things can make you want to rip your eyes out

bohsman

Id rather work in Burger King for a week at minimum wage, lodge $500, keep all rb and profit. But then Id rather work in burger king full time than play 500 sngs a week.

Theresalwaysone

oscar PM

bops

boba_fett3099 wrote: »

My backer seems to think 10% is easily sustainable but i wasn't so sure. Cheers bops!

no probs, but don't take my word for it, wait and see what a few respected sng nutters say

NickyOD

FYI 8 tabling these will give you brain damage. I can barely handle 6X6 handed non turbos.

Also, take into account what oscar and bops sad about variance and STTs doing your head in. They are basically the sadomasachism of poker, so if you like having your ass whipped by a cat-o-nine-tails go right ahead.

Alternativey use your 2K roll to 4-table .50/1. Easier money and a thousand times less stress IMO.

HoLLLLLaments

the rake is pretty high in these? id move around skins bonus whoring if i was you. prob a extra K or so to your monthly earn

BIGMICKG

boba_fett3099 wrote: »

My backer seems to think 10% is easily sustainable but i wasn't so sure. Cheers bops!

lol man hes totally bull****ting u.i could be wrong but a 10% roi is totally impossible at these imo. also someone said the rake on these is high??? what is it? if its more than $2 (10%) stay away!!

oh and as bops says about the variance in these. man ull see.. thats all ill say. never played sngs with 1 min levels but i can only imagine. people totally underestimate the variance in turbo sngs. if u want an idea of the variance sharkscope bigjoe2003 he plays on pokerstars and is supposedly the best online sng player in the world. no other big players dispute this. $90k downswings!!! with a $330 av buy in. do the math and bear in mind hes 1 of the best in the world

RoundTower

BIGMICKG wrote: »

lol man hes totally bull****ting u.

its just as likely he's clueless, people are generally pretty ignorant about this kind of thing. A good rule of thumb is to find some muppet who ran hot at these and thinks he's god's gift to poker, ask him what he thinks a reasonable ROI is, and divide by 4. I'm not saying this necessarily describes your backer, but it might.

boba_fett3099

Rake is 10%. And my potential backer is someone who is well known on here and pretty involved in the online poker world.

Not sure if i should do this, but if i show i can beat the lower levels then i'll be moved up to the $30s, $50s and $100s, and probably before i could build a big enough roll for these myself.

mormank

boba_fett3099 wrote: »

My backer seems to think 10% is easily sustainable but i wasn't so sure. Cheers bops!

so since ur staked. 100% roi should be sustainable.

perfect scenario for you.

Kamaldihnio

I have come to the conclusion that Stt's are not worth the hassle. They really arent. Soul Destroying. Mtt's and cash games the way forward. Best of luck tho.

Someone here told me that turbo blinds is the way forward in these stt's, I dont agree.

Iago

Kamaldihnio wrote: »

Someone here told me that turbo blinds is the way forward in these stt's, I dont agree.

Well that depends on what you mean, if you mean the 5 minutes turbos on ipoker then I think you can make a reasonable return on them.

I can't see the 1 minute turbos ever being the future of anything.

Mr.Plough

Kamaldihnio

Iago wrote: »

Well that depends on what you mean, if you mean the 5 minutes turbos on ipoker then I think you can make a reasonable return on them.

I can't see the 1 minute turbos ever being the future of anything.

Yeah I am talking 5 mins and to be honest I am yet to be convinced. I notice when I play these luck plays more of a part than standard blinds. You are pushing your chips with mediocre hands and racing more than ever. Ok the games are faster but surely normal blind game involves more skill.

Drakar

I was playing them before. What made it attractive is that good players generally dont play them as the structure gets stupid quickly. This means that you're often at tables with few people know know how and when to push. Sure it's a bit of a crapshoot, but there's definately an edge in playing poor players. They also appeal to people who like to gambol as it gets exciting pretty quickly, and this may be a style that suits you to play against.

mormank

ok just finished playin a few stt's on stars. 20 dolla buy ins. the longest stt's known to man i believe. i find that in these everybody just plays so tight and nobody even plays a hand til the acerage stack is ten blinds anyway so its still a crapshoot, but a delayed one if you get my drift...oh my god give me turbo stt any day of the week. sittin in an stt for an hour with only one person being knocked out in that time only to get ur jacks aipf against some guys ace queen is soul destroyin

mocata

100% on the head mormank, stars is v annoying. Total crapshoot at the end cos of uber-nit play all through.On the other hand ,easy as hell to build chips, use bubble to steal etc

mormank

mocata wrote: »

100% on the head mormank, stars is v annoying. Total crapshoot at the end cos of uber-nit play all through.On the other hand ,easy as hell to build chips, use bubble to steal etc

yeah i got knocked out over an hour ago but im sure they are still nowhere near the bubble, of any of them!!!

stt's are not supposed to have so much 'play' in them, period. this is a trait specifically for the mtt.

ironic tho that the fact there is so much 'play' is the same reason there is none, nobody was tryin to outplay eachother. just being nits.

ITT-Pat

boba_fett3099 wrote:

ITT-Pat wrote:

yours i'd say would be about 8%, mine would be ~15%

obv

QFT