Registration Number Question

carchaeologist

I was just looking through my old photos and i saw this picture of a MK2 Escort ZF4, and i thought it strange as ZF4 is a 1946 cork reg,i was wondering how it ended up on this car, its hardly as simple an explanation as the plates were made up wrong is it!?

Spit62500

Its an XR3 according to Cartell - its getting younger all the time :rolleyes:

carchaeologist

Hmm,i forgot to check cartell, thats certainly a strange one!!It couldnt have been on an XR3 new either as 4ZF is a 1978 number.....

BrianD3

I am hazy on the details but wasn't there some way of transferring a very old Irish reg onto a UK car? Once its in the UK system it can then be transferred onto a different UK car. That Mk2 Escort may be a UK registered car with a "former" Cork reg!

edit: from wikipedia
"Irish vehicle registration marks under the old scheme could be transferred to Britain for re-registration on other vehicles, even after Irish independence, and even though they could not be re-used within Ireland. The vowel "I" in many combinations made these attractive for collectors. The Kilkenny index "VIP 1" has fetched a record price at auction. Since 1987, such exports have been impossible, even for old-format registrations, although those already exported may still be re-transferred"

nmacc

carchaeologist wrote: »

Hmm,i forgot to check cartell, thats certainly a strange one!!It couldnt have been on an XR3 new either as 4ZF is a 1978 number.....

This may be complete hogwash, but I have a foggy recollection of meeting a man who had a very old number re-issued to him. Something along the lines of ZA 1 or similar. As I recall he was trying to register a home-built vehicle and the powers-that-be (in this case the Powers-That-Were as it must be 30 years ago) were putting every possible administrative obstacle in the way of registering the car at all.

Through relentless perseverance, determination and attention to detail he finally achieved the registration. Then he immediately returned to the question of the re-use of the old number; they caved in very quickly and he felt this was probably because he'd simply worn them down and they wanted rid of him ASAP.

Is it possible that the process of re-issuing expired numbers has been formalised? Or does the owner of ZF 4 simply posess a greater degree of bloody-mindedness than Cork Corpo (or should that be CoCo)?

DannyBuoy

ZF4 was a red XR3 belonging to a spray painter in Cork, not sure how he got the number tho or how it ended up on a MKII escort...

carchaeologist

I have heard that back in the pre 87 days it was possible to re issue numbers,there was a late 70s 3series bmw in tralee with a 1965 number on it. That explanation would be fine, but it doesnt explain how its with cartell as an XR3 now,because as far as i know you cant change those numbers now,and it definatly isnt an XR3 so he couldnt have swapped the taxbook surely...! I took the photo at the 2005 upton steam rally.

Esel

Probably a ringer then?

DannyBuoy

I wonder is it just that it should be read as 4ZF, that would make more sense as thats an Escort aswell...

corktina

carchaeologist wrote: »

I have heard that back in the pre 87 days it was possible to re issue numbers,there was a late 70s 3series bmw in tralee with a 1965 number on it. That explanation would be fine, but it doesnt explain how its with cartell as an XR3 now,because as far as i know you cant change those numbers now,and it definatly isnt an XR3 so he couldnt have swapped the taxbook surely...! I took the photo at the 2005 upton steam rally.

chancers like that will ruin it for us all.our concessions should nbe jealously guarded..I know of a modern Land Rover on classic plates...the excuse being the (aluminium ) body rotted so he fitted a new one to the perfect (steel) chassis.... hands up all who believe that one

carchaeologist

Well,i know what you mean,but technically it isnt illegal, as the chassis has the number on it,and the body is bolted to that so all that is being done is the body is being changed like a spare part, there is no restamping chassis numbers or using irish tax books or that kind of thing. Im sure theres alot of beetles around that have had their bodies changed over the years too,and no one would bat an eyelid at that?
As for it being 4ZF insted of ZF4, its hardly that simple an answer....

DannyBuoy

carchaeologist wrote: »

...
As for it being 4ZF insted of ZF4, its hardly that simple an answer....

I suppose you dont have a shot of it from the back...

carchaeologist

DannyBuoy wrote: »

I suppose you dont have a shot of it from the back...

Already looked, and i dont!!:(

G Luxel

maybe the xr3i was written off and somehow somebody very crafted bolted a mark 2 escort body onto the running gear of the xr3i and therefore was able to keep the plate.

I know of a car which was a mark 2 sierra ghia estate with the 87 facelift but was registered in I984......:)

carchaeologist

G Luxel wrote: »

maybe the xr3i was written off and somehow somebody very crafted bolted a mark 2 escort body onto the running gear of the xr3i and therefore was able to keep the plate.quote]
Well, a MK2 escort is rear wheel drive and an XR3i front wheel drive you would need to be merlin the wizard to make it work!!:D

corktina

carchaeologist wrote: »

Well,i know what you mean,but technically it isnt illegal, as the chassis has the number on it,and the body is bolted to that so all that is being done is the body is being changed like a spare part, there is no restamping chassis numbers or using irish tax books or that kind of thing. Im sure theres alot of beetles around that have had their bodies changed over the years too,and no one would bat an eyelid at that?
As for it being 4ZF insted of ZF4, its hardly that simple an answer....

im not saying its illegal...im saying its unlikely.....:)

MercMad

Yeah prior to 1987 it seemed to be possible to change / re-issue numbers. I know a guy with a 1965 Merc with a 1920's number on it !

corktina

possibly things were different before independence but I dont think it is possible in the Republic or ever has been

carchaeologist

MercMad wrote: »

Yeah prior to 1987 it seemed to be possible to change / re-issue numbers. I know a guy with a 1965 Merc with a 1920's number on it !

I reckon you are right, there was a 79 3series in tralee that had 1965 number on it, and an 86 golf with a 1962 number on it too....

Silvera

Prior to 1987 it was possible, on application, to have the reg number of a scrapped vehicle transferred to another vehicle. E.g. I know of a guy who got 'GTI 205' from a 1965 Morris Minor for his 1984 Peugeot 205 GTI (back in the 1980's obviously).

MercMad

Silvera wrote: »

Prior to 1987 it was possible, on application, to have the reg number of a scrapped vehicle transferred to another vehicle. E.g. I know of a guy who got 'GTI 205' from a 1965 Morris Minor for his 1984 Peugeot 205 GTI (back in the 1980's obviously).

......yes and I've seen that silver Pug many times !

carchaeologist

Silvera wrote: »

Prior to 1987 it was possible, on application, to have the reg number of a scrapped vehicle transferred to another vehicle. E.g. I know of a guy who got 'GTI 205' from a 1965 Morris Minor for his 1984 Peugeot 205 GTI (back in the 1980's obviously).

Why cant we still do that now,and im amazed it was allowed back then!!

DaveCol

If you guys say it happened then it must have, but I find it hard to believe having dealt with different county councils over the years!

rebel.ranter

My dad had a 1982 Granada 2.8i Forest Green Met with the Cream Pearlescent TRX alloys on it. It's reg was ZF 2345.
So ZF in 1982?

carchaeologist

rebel.ranter wrote: »

My dad had a 1982 Granada 2.8i Forest Green Met with the Cream Pearlescent TRX alloys on it. It's reg was ZF 2345.
So ZF in 1982?

Good piont,even 2345ZF would be 1979,come to think of it i think i saw ZF1000 on a 1970s car years back too.The ZF**** series finished in february 1980,so it definatly couldnt have been 1982.
Was the number really ZF2345,or were you just giving an example?

MercMad

I'm fairly sure that there was a yellow Mk2 Escort RS2000 around years ago, last of the line 1980 "Custom" and its reg was ZF 2000.

carchaeologist

Seems that lots of people were doing this sort of thing back in the day!!

carchaeologist

MercMad wrote: »

I'm fairly sure that there was a yellow Mk2 Escort RS2000 around years ago, last of the line 1980 "Custom" and its reg was ZF 2000.

Just had a root around in my old ford brochures, the first mention of the RS2000 Custom is in the november/december78 edition of ford cars, so its very possible that it could have been 2000ZF also.

alpina

So am I right is saying that a ZV plate is no more authentic in classic terms as say 81 CE *** (3 digits only I quite like)

Kills me though I wanted #635 & could not get it, said I would pay the €350 as if reserving it as in a new car, 635 is never going to be reached here in Clare, but harping on to deaf/uninterested ears...:mad:

rebel.ranter

carchaeologist wrote: »

Good piont,even 2345ZF would be 1979,come to think of it i think i saw ZF1000 on a 1970s car years back too.The ZF**** series finished in february 1980,so it definatly couldnt have been 1982.
Was the number really ZF2345,or were you just giving an example?

Yes the reg was ZF 2345, a savage car in it's day, only 4 speed manual with the same fuel injected engine that went in the Capri.

It had 2.8injection in lime green decal on the back. Also had the front soipler that came in two pieces with 2.8i in the corner. Also a rear boot spoiler.
I loved it & the old fella gave it to me when I was 18 but I could not get insurance for less than £1,500. At the time that was probably the same as the €4500 quotes that young fellas are getting now.
It was like this one only colour coded bumpers & black window trim.

alpina

Love it...

Kevin_Herron

My 2.5 V8 Daimler has a 1930's Cork reg on it. ZK2500.

As far as I know it was only certain counties that would re-issue numbers.

carchaeologist

rebel.ranter wrote: »

Yes the reg was ZF 2345, a savage car in it's day, only 4 speed manual with the same fuel injected engine that went in the Capri.

It had 2.8injection in lime green decal on the back. Also had the front soipler that came in two pieces with 2.8i in the corner. Also a rear boot spoiler.
I loved it & the old fella gave it to me when I was 18 but I could not get insurance for less than £1,500. At the time that was probably the same as the €4500 quotes that young fellas are getting now.
It was like this one only colour coded bumpers & black window trim.

Lovely car,what became of it, cartell doesnt have the reg:(She would be nice to have now!

Max_Damage

I don't mean to go OT, but with relation to Cartell and the info they 'buy' from the motor tax office (I assume), we had a Ford Escort Mk3 that went up in flames back in 1993 and the reg. of that still comes up on Cartell (263 PZU), while I've put in the data for newer cars and none come up. It's an odd setup they have.

carchaeologist

Max_Damage wrote: »

I don't mean to go OT, but with relation to Cartell and the info they 'buy' from the motor tax office (I assume), we had a Ford Escort Mk3 that went up in flames back in 1993 and the reg. of that still comes up on Cartell (263 PZU), while I've put in the data for newer cars and none come up. It's an odd setup they have.

OT?imposible!:DPossibly the taxbook was never returned to the tax office, then it would still be listed as untaxed,maybe the cars afterwards were registered as scrapped?

Max_Damage

carchaeologist wrote: »

OT?imposible!:DPossibly the taxbook was never returned to the tax office, then it would still be listed as untaxed,maybe the cars afterwards were registered as scrapped?

Could be. If that's the case, maybe the taxbook is still somewhere in my attic!

carchaeologist

Max_Damage wrote: »

Could be. If that's the case, maybe the taxbook is still somewhere in my attic!

More than likely, i have a few lying around the place too:D

rebel.ranter

carchaeologist wrote: »

Lovely car,what became of it, cartell doesnt have the reg:(She would be nice to have now!

You're nto goign to believe this but it was parked up in our driveway for 3 years lying idle. Then a guy that was into autocross bought it, for auto cross apparently

However it doesn't end there. I saw the car parked in a drive way in Cork city with a set of Volvo 240 alloys & a different registration. The green 2.8 injection decal was removed.
I knew it was the same car as there was a mark on the front wing that I made (never told the old fella about this mark!)
There was two other Granadas in the driveway. This was 8 years ago.

carchaeologist

rebel.ranter wrote: »

You're nto goign to believe this but it was parked up in our driveway for 3 years lying idle. Then a guy that was into autocross bought it, for auto cross apparently

However it doesn't end there. I saw the car parked in a drive way in Cork city with a set of Volvo 240 alloys & a different registration. The green 2.8 injection decal was removed.
I knew it was the same car as there was a mark on the front wing that I made (never told the old fella about this mark!)
There was two other Granadas in the driveway. This was 8 years ago.

Interesting story!!I would say it was a bit big for autocross,maybe he wanted the engine for something.I also wonder why the registration was removed, i suppose for another car!!

galwaytt

carchaeologist wrote: »

As for it being 4ZF insted of ZF4, its hardly that simple an answer....

could be. My father had new plates made for his 131 many years ago, and the no on them was YYI 400. All very well...........except the no was actually 400 YYI. I forget how when it was noticed, but it was by me, not a garda/custom etc etc. And no-one ever noticed the tax disc had it the right way round..........

so sometimes, yes, the answer is just that obvious, just that simple.....

Esel

galwaytt wrote: »

could be. My father had new plates made for his 131 many years ago, and the no on them was YYI 400. All very well...........except the no was actually 400 YYI. I forget how when it was noticed, but it was by me, not a garda/custom etc etc. And no-one ever noticed the tax disc had it the right way round..........

so sometimes, yes, the answer is just that obvious, just that simple.....

Early '77?

carchaeologist

esel wrote: »

Early '77?

YYI was issued in dublin from mid december1976 to very early(as in the first few days) in jan1977....

carchaeologist

galwaytt wrote: »

could be. My father had new plates made for his 131 many years ago, and the no on them was YYI 400. All very well...........except the no was actually 400 YYI. I forget how when it was noticed, but it was by me, not a garda/custom etc etc. And no-one ever noticed the tax disc had it the right way round..........

so sometimes, yes, the answer is just that obvious, just that simple.....

Yes,iv seen some old tractors with mixed up numberplates even these days, the days before nct tests eh?:D

Esel

carchaeologist wrote: »

YYI was issued in dublin from mid december1976 to very early(as in the first few days) in jan1977....

Not bad for a guesstimate, based on TYI being October 1976.

carchaeologist

esel wrote: »

Not bad for a guesstimate, based on TYI being October 1976.

Yep,the very end of september 76,to the very start of october 76,dublin ate through their number allocations at a fair rate!!