'01 Astra cutting out

Standard Toaster

Hi,

Strange one for ye. Car was fine all day. I was just home 30min and had to pop back out to the shops.

I was about 300meters down the road and the car's engine just cuts out. (1.4 Petrol)
No warning lights, temp reading normal. Car would turn over but just wouldn't fire.

I waited around 3min and it then decided to start no problem....as if nothing happened.

Made it about another 300 meters and again, same thing happens.
Again, I wait 3/4min and the car fires up fine.

I make it to the shops and decide to throw €30 quid of petrol into her.....tank now over half full.

On the way home, car cuts out 3 more times with the exact same symtoms.
I make about 1km before it cuts out...or around 3-4min.

I left the car idling way and after 4:00min it cuts out. I can see that there's water in the reservoir but I didn't get a chance to open the rad.

Jesus, if it's not one thing it's another.
After spending €150 on service bits for my CBR & ZXR and now the car decides it jealous or all the attaention and is acting up.


Anyway, if your still with me, what do you lads think it might be?
I was thinking overheating and the engine was cutting out as a fail-safe mecinism??

I'm heading out shortly so I'll read any responses tomorrow.

Cheers in advance!

x in the city

aint no expert on cars but sounds like a problem with the fuel line? i had an astra cut out and a fuse was blown, hard to diagnose.

check all the fuses and give the spark plugs a poke also:p

Steve

Sounds like fuel starvation.

Check fuel filter / fuel lines.

Did you let it run to empty recently? could have sucked in the crud from the bottom of the tank.

jimmycrackcorm

I had a not too dis-similar Astra problem which turned out to be a loose battery connection.

Standard Toaster

x in the city wrote: »

aint no expert on cars but sounds like a problem with the fuel line? i had an astra cut out and a fuse was blown, hard to diagnose.

check all the fuses and give the spark plugs a poke also:p

Thanks for that. First thing I'll check tomorrow morning.

x in the city wrote: »

Sounds like fuel starvation.

Check fuel filter / fuel lines.

Did you let it run to empty recently? could have sucked in the crud from the bottom of the tank.

It was close enough to empty but not on reserve or anything. Partly the reason I throw 30 quid into it.

If it has sucked in some crap from the line is it easy enough to clean out?

Also, could it be the EGR valve?
No idea what it is but it deffo seems to be a major point of failure on then Astra.

Cheers lads

patrickc

my astra had a similar prob once, was the airflow meter, not enough air getting in apparently..

martinr5232

More than likely an rpm sensor.

Standard Toaster

patrickc wrote:

my astra had a similar prob once, was the airflow meter, not enough air getting in apparently..

Did you have to get it replaced? Is it located on the pipe from the airbox to the engine?

martinr5232 wrote:

More than likely an rpm sensor.

Anyway of checking this?

I've cheaked all the fuses and they all seem ok.
See if I can get it over to a mechanic tomorrow.


@x in the city & stevec

Where's the fuel filter located?
I've no manual for her btw.

On friday petrol level was low but not warning light level low.
I have had it lower in the past.

If I wait like 10/15min it will fire up ok for a few minutes/miles.

patrickc

The_Edge wrote: »

Did you have to get it replaced? Is it located on the pipe from the airbox to the engine?

to be honest i was off to france the next day in it, and i just wanted it fixed, they replaced it, don't think it was there though... could be wrong, as far as i remember was about 120 to get done

Standard Toaster

Car was with mechanic today.
Replacement water temp sensor & crank shaft sensor and she's good to go.
€100 quid for parts from DG Opel

Cheers lads.

Standard Toaster

Bad news.....replacing both sensors hasn't made a difference.
Mechanic said he was onto Opel today and they said it sounded like the "computer" (ECU I guess) in the car that was at fault and needed replacing.

Apparently a common fault in that year of Astra (& Focus?)

He was quoted €900 for the part alone. Mechanic said he was stunned when he heard that.

Car is back with me until I decide what to do.
Anyone know if this sounds correct? I mean, 900 quid for a part probably no bigger then a box of cigs.

One here for €250 on ebay for example

Steve

It's worth a try - reset the ecu by disconnecting the battery for an hour and then re-connect .
After this, it will probably go a bit haywire for a while but should re-teach itself after about 4-5hrs driving.

No guarantee but it worked for me.:)

2-ShortDa5foot5

Used to happen all the time when I drove a Fiesta. Not sure of the exact terminology but my mechanic said it was happening because I was leaving the petrol tank run down to empty. Mechanic can sort if ror you anyway.

Standard Toaster

Cheers stevec.

Reading this thread here and it looks like I've some weekend ahead of me.
http://www.cavweb-forums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=63293

Mechanic said he tried a second Coil Pack and that made no difference.

So far, I can rule out:

Coil Pack
Water temp sensor
Crank shaft sensor

I'm gonna reset the ECU like you said and give the EGR valve & the throttle body a good cleaning.

Apparently, the EGR valve sticking open is a well known issue within Opel/Vauxhall and flashing the ECU to the latest firmware causes the engine to ignore the EGR valve completely and it's no longer an issue.

Anyway, I'm off hunting for an EGR valve on ebay incase.

Wish me luck

Standard Toaster

Update:

I hooked the car upto the laptop today and took it for a spin.
No fault codes starting out.

As soon as the engine cut out I got the below fault:




So you lads were on the button with maybe a fuel problem.
Does anyone know what this may relate to?
Bad/loose connection?
Faulty pump?
Fuse?

Car is stranded atm a few Ks from my house

Cheers

Standard Toaster

Me again....

Does anyone know an easy way of testing a relay?
I want to test the Fuel Pump Relay and rule that out.

Also, is the Fuel Pump itself audible when it's running?

Lucifer

your problem sounds like a problem that I have seen before on a few astras. It is a problem in the ECU which causes a bad earth for the fuel pump relay causing it to cut the fuel pump. It is possible to rewire the circuit to solve the problem. While it will not fix the actual ecu, it will solve the problem.

Standard Toaster

So you think the actual ECU is at fault?
Do these things usually go faulty like that?

And how would I go about rewiring the circuit....even as a temp fix?
As it is I can't even drive it to an Opel dealer.

Cheer Lucifer

Lucifer

Ye it is a fault inside the ecu. If this is the problem, as a temporary fix, run a wire from the main relay earth to the fuel pump relay earth. If your not 100% sure how to do this or which wire is which I would recommend not doing this yourself though as you never know what you may damage if you do this incorrectly. If you have a fair idea left me know and I mite be able to post up some wire colours/ diagrams. will have to see if i can find them on my other computer.

kev

Standard Toaster

Nice one Kev.
I'll give it a go. Diagrams/wire colours would be great. I think the + fuel pump wire is red/blue. Will check this evening after 7pm

I have a voltmeter if you think it might be useful too?

At least if this works I can be confident that it is a faulty ECU and bend over for a new one from Opel.

Now, I'm off to google some relay info.

Cheers again

Lucifer

Yes the blue/red wire is the + going to the fuel pump. I think the earth you are looking for is brown/yellow or brown/green, but could be yellow/green and yellow brown, cant rembember for sure. You could check this with a multimeter, by checking continuity between this and battery earth, will beep and read 0 (or close to 0) when the car is running and everything is ok, and then will stop and possibly change to 1 (varies on some multimeters could be OL) when the car cuts out. this is the ecu cutting the earth. If you find this wire then you have to find the same one on the main relay (is the same colour as the fuel pump relay) bridge a wire between these and will solve the problem as a temp fix. The earth on the main relay is the same colour as the one on the fuel pump but with a different colour going through it (such as both yellow, wit green going through one and brown through the other). Also these will be thin wires, not as thick as the blue/red one. these are the wires for turning on and off the relay, not the earth for the actual fuel pump. i'll try find the wiring diagrams later when i get a chance, or if you are still unsure you could send me some pictures and i can identify which wires.

Standard Toaster

Thanks for your help Kev.....I think your on the button. (Most helpful info from you yet)


Underside of Fuel Pump Relay: (Pink)


Tried first with the Red/Blue wire reading voltage before & after the engine cuts:

Multimeter reading voltage from Red/Blue wire while engine running:


Multimeter reading 0 voltage from Red/Blue wire just when the engine cuts out:


I'm guessing that's to be expected?


I get continuity from the battary's negitive & the large red/blue wire.
I also get continuity from the small brown/green wire & battary's negitive.

As soon as the car cuts out I lose the continuity with the brown/green wir, just like you said. Red/Blue remains ok.

What's the best way to do a temp fix on this?
Splice a wire with the small brown/green & a point onn the body of the car?

The relay gets very hot....is that normal?
I'm still hoping it's not the ECU!!

Lucifer

Best way to do a temp fix is, to find the same wire on the other purple relay (main relay) as the small brown/green, it will be brown/yellow or similar and will connect to the same pin number on the main relay as on the fuel pump relay. when you have found this, without cutting either wire, join a piece of wire between these 2 and cover both connections with insulating tape.

The main relay will become active when the ignition is turned on and this will then turn on your fuel pump relay also by providing it an earth. Do not join that wire to the body as this will provide a constant earth to the relay and will not allow it to switch on and off with the ignition.

It is normal for a relay to become warm when switched on for a while but if it is getting really really warm or smells burnt it may be faulty.

Let me know how you get on with that. Also let me know how much you are quoted for the ecu from a dealer. I'll see if I can get it any cheaper.

Standard Toaster

Alright Kev,

I own you one....that worked a treat! Car is running the last 20min fine.
If I disconnect the wire she'll cut out.

Magic!!

Before I did anything (eg starting car) I swapped the two purple relays around.
That made no difference so I can now rule out a bad relay.

Another thing I did notice, and it's likey to do with the ignition, is a couple of the leds on the main display remain on even with the keys removed (Oil & battary warning) with the wire in place.

Also, my OBD-II software is reporting a new code:

P1230 - Open Power to Fuel Pump circuit.

Clever little thing!

At least now I can maybe drive her to an Opel centre to get sorted.
I might take you up on the ECU mate. DG Opel said a new ECU was €800 or €900 quid. I'll ring around tomorrow.

I seriously owe you one. Cheers again.

Lucifer

glad its got you running anyway, enough to get it to a dealer. i'll price an ecu tomorrow. do you know if its an x14xe or z14xe? x14 the cat is underneath the car and has a crank sensor at the crank pulley. z14 cat is in the manifold with an o2 sensor before the cat and one after.

Standard Toaster

I'm nearly 100% certain she's a Z14XE.
2001...I think I rememebr seeing the cat at the manifold with the sensor.

Thanks

Esel

Brilliant result. Kudos to Lucifer!

martinr5232

You could get a second hand ecu,chip for the key and code reader would be a lot cheaper than a new ecu.

I think i have them if your interested pm me.

Lucifer

Im not sure for certain if replacing all 3 will work for sure. I know that replacing the ECU or Immob Ecu they both need to be programmed, and when doing so they must be replaced seperatly, program 1, and then replace the other and program it. This is when replacing with new units. When using second hand parts that are all programmed together it might work, have not done this myself. May be worth a try, I'll ask someone about it tomorrow who might know.

If it does need programming I doubt a dealer will touch any second hand parts.

Anyway, if you do decided to get a brand new one, let me know the prices quoted from dealers and I'll see what I can do. They are not available overnight so if ordering it would take 3-4 days to ship from germany as there is no stock in the uk.

martinr5232

I know for a fact it will work not the first time ive had trouble with an astra ecu.

Lucifer

If your sure its worth trying. Just be sure to get the security code from the doner car as it will be needed for any future programming on the car and will not be possible to get afterwards.

kevin

Standard Toaster

DG Opel have one in stock @ €691.00 +VAT :eek:

Liam Corbett

Hi Guys,

I have a problem with my astra. Went to start it the other night and it starts and runs for about 10seconds then just cuts out. This happens every time i start it! The ecu light (with lightning flash sign in the middle) keeps flashing also. I dont know much about cars but i was thinking it could be the immobiliser or something like that? Anyway just wondering have you any advice you could give me to fix it?

Thanks,
Liam

ecooney

Lucifer wrote: »

Best way to do a temp fix is, to find the same wire on the other purple relay (main relay) as the small brown/green, it will be brown/yellow or similar and will connect to the same pin number on the main relay as on the fuel pump relay. when you have found this, without cutting either wire, join a piece of wire between these 2 and cover both connections with insulating tape.

The main relay will become active when the ignition is turned on and this will then turn on your fuel pump relay also by providing it an earth. Do not join that wire to the body as this will provide a constant earth to the relay and will not allow it to switch on and off with the ignition.

It is normal for a relay to become warm when switched on for a while but if it is getting really really warm or smells burnt it may be faulty.

Let me know how you get on with that. Also let me know how much you are quoted for the ecu from a dealer. I'll see if I can get it any cheaper.

I have an Astra with the same issue. I tried jumping the earth on the two relays and this sorted the problem straight away.

My question now is, do I need to replace the ECU or can I go on running the car with the jumper cable in place?

Standard Toaster

Hi,

Deffo the ECU
I bought a reconditioned one off ebay from the UK. I had to give the seller the chassis number of my car and he programmed it in before sending it over. Paided about €260.

Once it arrived, 5mins to fit the ECU, 5mins to fit the transponder into the key and 10mins to fit the receiver around the barrel.
Car started first time and probelm was sorted.

This is the guy. (vauxhallheaven)

rccaulfield

ecooney wrote: »

I have an Astra with the same issue. I tried jumping the earth on the two relays and this sorted the problem straight away.

My question now is, do I need to replace the ECU or can I go on running the car with the jumper cable in place?

Bump! Same problem myself and wondering about the safety aspect of leaving this fix in place?

Standard Toaster

If you have a serious crash the fuel pump would keep running, that could be very bad for obvious reasons.

ger26

i have an opel astra 01 1.4 16v that randomly cuts out and then starts again in a few mins , i have code on peddle trick 0230 pump relay i replaced relay still happens i was reading the posts on linking the earths on the relays have tried that but the pump runs even with ignition off is this right

Standard Toaster

Just replace the ECU mate, will sort it. Ebay is your best bet.
Like this one

As long as the seller can program the chassis number into it for ya before sending your sorted. Your correct, the fuel pump will continue to run, so get your hands on a new ECU. Well known issue.