Omens Bad for Brewery??

road_high

Big announcement re the future of St. Francis Abbey brewery tommorow.
Wonder what will happen and will 300 years of brewing come to end

Stephen

I heard rumours last week that they're winding the whole lot up

highgiant1985

feck how many jobs does the bewery provide for kilkenny? just directly i mean

finlma

It is part of a major announcement by Diageo and it looks like they will be shutting down all three of their existing breweries, including James' Gate and Francis Abbey, and moving to a green site location outside Dublin.

There is going to be a press conference this morning I think.

Stephen

According to the news this morning they're probably going to be shutting down the Waterford brewery too, which is mental considering they completely rebuilt it at great expense only 5 years ago.

road_high

Sad day for Kilkenny. Another manufacturing operation down the tubes here.
And nothing to replace it nedless to say. Dissapointing...

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/mhgbkfcwcwoj/

road_high

Why can't they consider Kilkenny as a base for their new operation?? With the new M9 mototrway

brettmirl

highgiant1985 wrote: »

feck how many jobs does the bewery provide for kilkenny? just directly i mean

93 directly and about another 50 indirectly.

Sad day indeed. The brewery has been such a part of the city for so long. The noises and smells you get from it when walking around were a part of Kilkenny.

Full press release here - http://www.diageo.com/en-row/NewsAndMedia/PressReleases/2008/Diageo+unveils+€650m+brewing+investment+for+Ireland.htm

MsFifers

Wow - no Smithwicks being produced in Kilkenny anymore - doesn't seem right.


Hopefully the people employed here will be able to transfer to the new site "close to Dublin" that they are talking about.

Stephen

pfft, I love the way they've turned it around into "unveiling a €650M investment" rather than shutting down a bunch of breweries and laying people off :rolleyes:
Looks like the Waterford brewery will survive, albeit in "streamlined" form, whatever the hell that means.

brettmirl

I don't think they've brewed Smithwicks there for quite a while now.

Am pretty sure it was only Budweiser

Cabaal

The selling it as a "good thing" but its far from,

road_high

It's the end of an era for Kk and the loss of a great institution. Even though the job numbers are not huge it is still quite significant in my view.
We will all miss the place, it is a landamark. Greater efforts should have been made to land the new green field site plant for KK; was there any effort made locally to try and promote KK to Diageo as an ideal location?? If not, why not 'cos it seems to me this has been on the cards for a number of years.

3 once mighty industries in the s east namely Waterford Crystal, Irish Sugar and now Smithwicks are in declince or axed completely.

Cabaal

there sending out this mail to people that have used there website, alot of bollox

For almost 300 years Ireland has created some of the world's most brilliant brews. Today we announce a €650 million plan to secure that reputation for centuries more.

St. James's Gate, the historic home of the Black Stuff, is to get a whole new lease of life.

Arthur Guinness's brewery will be upgraded and enhanced but the passion, craftsmanship and the finest quality ingredients we fuse to create your favorite pint will always stay the same. As we approach the 250th anniversary of brewing in this unique place, you can look forward to your GUINNESS coming 'straight from the gate' for a long, long time to come.

The plans don't stop there. As well as improving the home of Ireland's most famous pint, over the next five years we're also going to build Ireland's largest brewery yet to satisfy growing worldwide demand for Uncle Arthur's finest. The rich history, heritage and craftsmanship behind all our brilliant brews will be drawn on to create a world-class centre of brewing excellence in the greater Dublin area by 2013. This great new brewery will also produce our famous ales and lagers.

Sadly, our other breweries in both Kilkenny and Dundalk are just too small to accommodate our ambitious plans and these will be wound down in 2013 when the new brewery is complete. It goes without mention that every care will be given to reduce any impact to staff and to ensure future developments reflect the history and heritage of these remarkable sites.

It's going to be an exciting time ahead but we believe the great man himself would be proud. Marrying this exciting investment with Ireland's unique brewing tradition and expertise is a recipe that can only lead to success.

Slainté,

In this day and age were we're trying to take more trucks off the road in the interest of the environment, surely its better to have many small operations dotted around the country then one super mega complex

road_high

One major complex will mean less trucks etc I would imagine. Pity that mega site could not be considered for Kilkenny.

I'd say now the "heritsge" will be soon forget once they flog the place and it's levelled

Bards

bad day for the S.E all right... The Govt need to designate WIT to USE now!!!

Cabaal

Bards wrote: »

bad day for the S.E all right... The Govt need to designate WIT to USE now!!!

I assume you mean Uni?
because designating WIT a Uni will help bring that industry and jobs back to Kilkenny how exactly?

road_high

Cabaal wrote: »

I assume you mean Uni?
because designating WIT a Uni will help bring that industry and jobs back to Kilkenny how exactly?

Well of course it will/would have a natural spin off effect into county Kilkenny, no question about that to my mind anyhow. And there si the possibility in time of a campus located in KK itself so it would def be a positivie move KK and the south east in general. We need to stop thinking withj county boundaries on this one. Kilkenny is simply too small to warrant it's own uni or any other dreams those who write into the KK People may have...

BeatNikDub

Build another Dunnes!!

Ah no on a serious note, sad day for Kilkenny, and Dublin too.
Were things really that bad that so many assests and staff had to be let go?

Not great PR either.

Cabaal

mfitzy wrote: »

Well of course it will/would have a natural spin off effect into county Kilkenny, no question about that to my mind anyhow. And there si the possibility in time of a campus located in KK itself so it would def be a positivie move KK and the south east in general. We need to stop thinking withj county boundaries on this one. Kilkenny is simply too small to warrant it's own uni or any other dreams those who write into the KK People may have...

and waterford needs to improve its public transport etc before its suitable for a Uni in my view

granturismo

Bards wrote: »

bad day for the S.E all right... The Govt need to designate WIT to USE now!!!

I fully support a University for the SE, but having studied and worked in WIT and 3 other unis, I think its a bit naive to pin hopes of recovering from the loss of one of the last main production facilities in Kilkenny on WIT becoming USE. WIT management, admin system and staff are not ready. No university president would exempt students from lectures and assessments to attend a march in support of that institute. Most academic staff at WIT take summers off (just like their counterparts in uni depts who do not rely on major funding to fund their PhD students). To compete with others unis for limited research funding will need a major change in mindset for management and staff. If there is a university in Waterford or Kilkenny then great but USE could become useless if its not managed properly.

mfitzy wrote: »

Well of course it will/would have a natural spin off effect into county Kilkenny, no question about that to my mind anyhow.

Unless USE will increase WIT's student numbers there will be very little benefit for industries/suppliers in the SE. Irish university procurement policies are increasingly becoming more streamlined. Consumables from printer cartridges to engineering, IT and lab supplies are limited to a few suppliers who meet price and quality criteria and these are generally not local businesses. The only benefit for Kilkenny will be increased house prices and increased traffic if staff numbers increase and they live north of the Suir.

I grew up in Kilkenny and would love to return (even to work in Waterford) but with most manufacturing plants now closed down, its becoming a service centre for shopping and weekends away. The Boot Factory, Smithwicks ... whats next - whats left. Today was bad news for those still employed at Smithwicks and for Kilkenny.

WIT has been an influence on manufacturers to located there and its time that some of these were encouraged by the IDA to come to Kilkenny. There isnt much more of a benefit to having an IoT 10 minutes drive away from the Waterford Industrial Estate than having the plant in Kilkenny - phone calls and emails work. Kilkenny needs new manufacturing before University KK or USE at Waterford ever become a reality.

road_high

Again I can't see why KK has not been pushed as the ideal alternative site for the new plant for Diageo? Why must be locate the new one in Dublin. We are relatively near Dublin. I cannot see why not anyhow

Bards

Universities attract knowledge based industries, which attract graduates, which attract other industries etc etc.

in any case this is discussed in depth on the Waterford City forum http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055235045

granturismo

mfitzy wrote: »

Again I can't see why KK has not been pushed as the ideal alternative site for the new plant for Diageo?

I think they'll want to stay close to the new Dublin port.

Bards wrote: »

Universities attract knowledge based industries, which attract graduates, which attract other industries etc etc.

in any case this is discussed in depth on the Waterford City forum http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055235045

I only brought this up because it had been raised earlier. Abbott have set up in some of the more rural areas of the country with no Iot or University nearby. Wyeth - Newbridge (no links to NUIM) and Clondalkin. Schering Plough - rural Cork and Wicklow. Intel and HP chose to locate in N Kildare, close to Dublin and have developed ties with TCD. Elan in Athlone - more investment in TCD than AIT. Video conferencing, email, phone, trains, IDA incentives mean a lot more than proximity to third level.

Commercial centres attract industries rather than universities. Why has Waterford been so much more successful than Kilkenny at attracting manufacturing plants? The IDA need to concentrate on Kilkenny and the rest of the SE and sooner, rather than waiting for a regional university.

road_high

Why not export via Waterford port and as I said with the new M9 Kk well be well served.

Many would argue that concetrating on one centre the IDA's investment can be maximised. Absolultely pointless GT min playing KK against Waterford in my view. KK has to maximise it's own merits and strengths and we cannot knock another city in the same region.

finlma

mfitzy wrote: »

Again I can't see why KK has not been pushed as the ideal alternative site for the new plant for Diageo? Why must be locate the new one in Dublin. We are relatively near Dublin. I cannot see why not anyhow

It's pretty obviously because of transport costs and convenience to Dublin Port. If you don't look at it through black and amber tinted glasses it makes perfect sense.

Nightwish

Very sad to hear about the Brewery today. Another blow to the town. When will we see a good news jobs story here, other than retail jobs?

I wonder what will happen to the site? I can only imagine the horrendous apartments that some developer will want to throw up on the riverbank.

MsFifers

Nightwish wrote: »

I wonder what will happen to the site? I can only imagine the horrendous apartments that some developer will want to throw up on the riverbank.

I was wondering the very same thing myself. I wonder will they demolish the big ugly structures? Between the brewery and Dunnes that side of the riverbank is extremely visually unpleasant.

Anyway - not something that will concern the people losing their jobs.

KatCookie

mfitzy wrote: »

One major complex will mean less trucks etc I would imagine. Pity that mega site could not be considered for Kilkenny.

I'd say now the "heritsge" will be soon forget once they flog the place and it's levelled

i disagree... there gonna be a hell of a lot of people complaining cos one side wants to sell it off level it.. and the other side will want to keep the abbey and turn it into a big heritage site..
personally i think it would be nice if it was possible for them to build a new plant outside kk where they couldnt pollute the water and i always thought it was a bit of an eyesore...
the abbey should be kept.. possibly a small like park area and turn the rest into something commerial or another small factory .. and some more parking for that area too!

Firetrap

I don't see how WIT being turned into a university would help things. Don't forget either that if they get university status, every other IT in the country will want to be one too and it'll ultimately devalue university status. That's exactly what happened when some of the RTCs as they were called then were granted IT status. The others jumped up and down and cried miserably so they all got a new name.

Kilkenny's biggest problem is its third world infrastructure. Once you leave the city and the ring road, most of the roads out of the place degenerate into little better than winding boreens. If you want a visual sign of this, just drive the road from Durrow to Ballyragget. Somewhere around the sign that welcomes you to Kilkenny, the dotted yellow line disappears and the road visibly narrows. Maybe that's a metaphor for something.

Until that's fixed up, I can't see how any industry will come in here. Harsh but true.

As for what to do with the site, it would be nice if they could open up access to St Francis Abbey. It of course can't be levelled but getting rid of the rest of the buildings would be no loss.

kleefarr

The place won't smell the same ever again.

KatCookie

Thankfully!!

maybe we'll see some LIVE fish after 2013... haha

bigmurt

That side of the river is such a waste . They should make use of the waterfront as an amenity , with bars and cafes or such .

road_high

John McGuinness TD reckons they should replace the brewery site with wait for it....a Norman museum :rolleyes:

Have to say Hogan's responses have been streets ahead to my eyes;
http://www.philhogan.ie/news/?c=333
http://www.philhogan.ie/news/?c=332

brettmirl

Is the inner relief road, if it ever gets built, supposed to go through the brewery site?

Bards

"Deputy Hogan pinpointed transport infrastructure as being in a mess largely due to the billions which have been squandered due to ministerial bungling. "

As if FG ever did anything for Infrastructure in KK

Purry Cat

I think you'll find the first phase of the ring road was opened under a Fine Gael-led government, actually...

KatCookie

mick_irl wrote: »

Is the inner relief road, if it ever gets built, supposed to go through the brewery site?

i thought the bridge was going to go throught the kind of yard next to Spar in irishtown...

KatCookie

Purry Cat wrote: »

I think you'll find the first phase of the ring road was opened under a Fine Gael-led government, actually...

yeah.. but they never finished it!! lol

road_high

Future of the Brewery seems to have been secured for the medium term at least
They were talking about on KCLR today, and how Diageo have reached an agreement with staff to save the historic plant.
I think this is great news. I love the buzz of having the Brewery there and the life it brings. The downturn seems to have refocused Diageos old plans to build a new super brewery near Lucan. I think the M9 motorway will make the old brewery more competitive of course.

Apparently staff came up with a rescue plan. Well done to all concerned.

Captain Havoc

Great to hear, me da, grandfather (for 70 years, no bull) and great frandfather worked there and I have mates working there, so I'm delighted for everyone working there.

Threadhead

There's some serious plans on the cards for the 300 anniversary next year. And it's great they can go ahead with those plans without closure hanging over them.

You can bet that Diageo will be a lot more organised and funding friendly than Kilkenny 400. So at least Kilkenny should get some sort of big celebration next year.

Captain Havoc

Threadhead wrote: »

There's some serious plans on the cards for the 300 anniversary next year. And it's great they can go ahead with those plans without closure hanging over them.

You can bet that Diageo will be a lot more organised and funding friendly than Kilkenny 400. So at least Kilkenny should get some sort of big celebration next year.

You damn straight, there's no doubt Diageo know how to organise a piss up in a brewery

Threadhead

Literally! I reckon that's one of the things we'll see going on in there!

They're taking back the upstairs room above the cellar so the Cat Laughs and Arts Festival box offices will be going somewhere else next year. So yeah, they're making room for some big changes.

They're giving the Smithwicks 300 celebrations the same push as the Guinness 250 celebrations. Obviously not as big as Guinness, but still, 2010 should be a good year for piss ups in Kilkenny.

road_high

Yea, I am delighted with this decision. The company are dead right, why plough hundreds of millions into a new facility in a very uncertain time when you have existing plants there, tried and tested and steeped in history.
I think we have been far too quick to discard older industries (and thus sustainable jobs) over the so-called Celtic Tiger Era. Look at two prime examples in the South East here; Irish Sugar and Waterford Crystal. Both allowed to wilt and close even though once very profitable. Those sugar jobs would have been a god send locally during this recession, knew several that worked at it over the Winter, from farmers that grew beet, to hauliers to workers. So I'm glad Diageo did not go down the Greencore fastbuck route with their site.

road_high

I feel confident for Kilkenny in 2010 I have to say. With the M9 motorway opening up the city and county in a way unknown before.
And 3 Major Festivals planned in KK; Cats Laugh, Arts Week and the Smithwicks 300 I think it will be even more placed into the limelight as one of Irelands top destinations.

Threadhead

I absolutely agree. The omens are very good for a fantastic year in Kilkenny in 2010.

If the weather holds up and we get a 5 in a row, it'll be all the better.

dewdrop

And i see in Cork Evening Echo Brian Cody reappointed Manager. What more do ye want?

Only one Keano

Any more good news????:)

Lord ButterSlip

Any ideas on what to do with the site? Obviously a norman museum couldn't take up the whole thing :rolleyes: and i dont know who wants another dunnes and a huge carpark to fill the water front. I will just throw this out there; what about what was there before? Horse Barrack Lane, small shops and houses and the like and maybe some caff's on the nore.

Threadhead

It's still going to be a brewery for the foreseeable future but in the event that it won't be, your ideas would be best. I'd hate to see the place eventually become a car park. There's a lot of magnificent old buildings still in there and it'd be a shame not to utilise them for future developments. Again, if there are future developments. It's survived the plague, Cromwell, the 1798 rebellion, the War of Independence and this recession, I think it's going to be here for another while longer.