Clonsilla Railway overpass

Saruman

Does anyone know why there is a perfectly good overpass between coolmine and clonsilla that has not been linked up to the back road?

There is a roundabout there with an unused exit (fenced off) and there is nothing but a stretch of field that some farmer sticks his cows in every now and again. It runs beside the apartments along by the porterstown crossing to the back road that leads down towards wesmanstown (not sure of the road name).

It has been like this for years!!! A CPO should have been placed on that little field and the road built. The amount of traffic that it would divert from clonsilla, especially at rush hour when the (human controlled) crossing goes down and stays down for up to 15 mins at a time. The porterstown crossing which is automatic goes up and down as the trains come so you are never waiting there for long.

Seriously, CPO the land, build the damn road and in a few weeks you could fix the congestion around clonsilla.

Pat Dunne

Expect to see some noises been made about it over the coming months with the upcoming attempt to rezone the Kellystown green belt area.

Which the County Manger favours and the Local Councillors oppose.

daymobrew

Saruman wrote: »

Does anyone know why there is a perfectly good overpass between coolmine and clonsilla that has not been linked up to the back road?

The Porterstown Link Road is in the works.
Submissions closed two months ago. You could email the roads department to ask on the timeframe for this project.

Saruman

About time, as if to make a lie of my "The porterstown crossing which is automatic goes up and down as the trains come so you are never waiting there for long."
I was stuck there for almost 20 mins at 17:40 today as 5 or 6 trains went by and the barriers stayed down.

BostonB

Personally I'm not a fan of the new changes. It will get all the cars coming down Clonsilla, and from Lucan (and beyond) all coming down into Laurel Lodge and toward Castleknock College. Both bad bottlenecks as it is. It will turn all those estates into even worse rat runs than they are already.

daymobrew

BostonB wrote: »

Personally I'm not a fan of the new changes. It will get all the cars coming down Clonsilla, and from Lucan (and beyond) all coming down into Laurel Lodge and toward Castleknock College. Both bad bottlenecks as it is. It will turn all those estates into even worse rat runs than they are already.

I hear this claim a lot but I'm not sure it will happen. Those driving over the bridge are likely to be those that used the Porterstown Road to get to the Luttrellstown Road. I expect that they'll continue to go to the Luttellstown Road - going down Diswellstown Road to Castleknock College or into Laurel Lodge are known bottlenecks and people will avoid them.

Saruman

Exactly, i just want to get from Leixlip to Blanchardstown without sitting at train tracks for up to 20 mins.

BostonB

Saruman wrote: »

Exactly, i just want to get from Leixlip to Blanchardstown without sitting at train tracks for up to 20 mins.

Er...why not sit on the train instead?

BostonB

daymobrew wrote: »

I hear this claim a lot but I'm not sure it will happen. Those driving over the bridge are likely to be those that used the Porterstown Road to get to the Luttrellstown Road. I expect that they'll continue to go to the Luttellstown Road - going down Diswellstown Road to Castleknock College or into Laurel Lodge are known bottlenecks and people will avoid them.

The current bottle necks including the one at the crossing isn't making it less desirable as a rat run. Thats what I'm basing my opinion on.

Saruman

BostonB wrote: »

Er...why not sit on the train instead?

Don't be ridiculous. :rolleyes: I said i get from Leixlip to Blanch but my location clearly says Westmeath. No train from my town to Blanch and even if there was, not much use to me as i drive around the city/country doing IT stuff so public transport is not an option.

If my job was in one place and i could get a train each way every day, i would.

BostonB

My bad I missed that.

Buy a Scooter? I guess you're stuffed if you need a car.

oblivious

It is supposed to be upgrade ,but I think there primary school is going in first and then the flyover will be connected up to the porterstown road

Saruman

BostonB wrote: »

My bad I missed that.

Buy a Scooter? I guess you're stuffed if you need a car.

Love to see how i do carrying a server on a scooter... and when i head up to Roscommon to install 33 wireless access points, that will be fun on a scooter

No i need a car, i drop my wife to work in Blanch most mornings and that suits me as my office is also in Blanch, or i head from there in to town.

If it makes you feel better, if i am doing a country run instead of Dublin, i drop my wife to Mullingar and she gets the train in

madds

Saruman - I make the Leixlip to Blanch run every day and the route I take means I never have to cross a train track, except for the one in Confey.

Where specifically in Blanch are you heading for?

Saruman

Shopping centre and then either town, or up to Ballycoolin but i need to go the the shopping centre first to drop off my wife.

I think i know the route you are talking about, but that leads all the way up towards Dunboyne and you come back in through Ongar? Its all the wrong direction. Unless there is another one you are talking about?

BostonB

Saruman wrote: »

Love to see how i do carrying a server on a scooter... and when i head up to Roscommon to install 33 wireless access points, that will be fun on a scooter ....

Considering the travelling you do. Seems bad luck that you have to cross coolmine at that time that often. I don't think I'd have the patience for it.

madds

No, it's a different one.

From Confey, take the first left after the graveyard and then take a left and quick right at the next junction. Half a mile up this road take a right (don't go straight on towards Dunboyne), up over a hill and then straight on (taking a left would bring you back towards Leixlip/Lucan.

At the next t-junction, take a left which brings you into Clonee village.

Take a right and proceed through Clonee village and head onto the N3 which will bring you down towards the shopping centre turnoff.

From Leixlip, it's about a 30-minute trip.

Saruman

Actually madds thats exactly the route i thought you were talking about. The problem is that like i said, its the wrong direction. I could either go from clonee to ongar or down the N3. Either way i would be stuck in traffic approaching the shopping centre for longer than i would sitting at the crossing (unless its a real bad day).
My route is usually more like 20 mins in total, unless the traffic at clonsilla is backed up around the corner.

StrawDub

The Kellystown rezoning will be a disaster if it goes through, 1500 more houses in an area where the infrastructure cant cope currently. The primary and secondary schools that are being built along the Porterstown road appear to be the hit the builder was willing to take so that he can get permission for the houses. He was refused permission a number of years ago.

About the pass over and the link with the Porterstown road, that land has already been CPO for the Metro, the Metro will run the length of the Porterstown rd with a station at Porterstown, so unless they built a new bridge over the proposed link road the current mess with the Porterstown crossing will reemerge in a number of years when the metro is constructed.

I live extremely near the junction of the porterstown rd and Luttrellstown rd, this junction is going to be upgraded as part of the works with traffic lights and all that lark, but the country feeling of the area is going to be destroyed for good when all this development is finished. My family have lived in Porterstown for 5 generations and to see what it has turned into today is a disgrace.

Also that farmer you are talking about is a good friend of mine so I only want to hear kind words!

BostonB

StrawDub wrote: »

The Kellystown rezoning will be a disaster if it goes through, 1500 more houses in an area where the infrastructure cant cope currently. ..

Its disgusting greed tbh. The area is ruined by the over development, lack of proper planning and poor transport planning. Eventually they'll have built on every scrap of green area left. Its only a matter of time and money.

Saruman wrote: »

...Seriously, CPO the land, build the damn road and in a few weeks you could fix the congestion around clonsilla.

The traffic has no where to go, you'll just move the congestion slightly further along, but in time it will back up, to Clonsilla again because there's no where for it to go. This mass movement of people from west to east through D.15 all has to go through about 3 single lane roads.

You've either got to widen the roads, not really possible in Castleknock/Laurel Lodge/Chapelizod, get people off the roads (public transport) or get them moving in another direction.

IMO the easiest is to get people on public transport. Better public transport is feasible.

daymobrew

StrawDub wrote: »

the Metro will run the length of the Porterstown rd with a station at Porterstown, so unless they built a new bridge over the proposed link road the current mess with the Porterstown crossing will reemerge in a number of years when the metro is constructed.

Metro West will run on a new bridge to the east of the current Dr Troy Bridge i.e. between the bridge and Woodbrook. The maps are online. The Porterstown stop will be on the bridge.

dtf

Its disgusting greed tbh. The area is ruined by the over development, lack of proper planning and poor transport planning. Eventually they'll have built on every scrap of green area left. Its only a matter of time and money.

I agree that the areas infastructure can hardly handle any more houses let alone the 1500 that are now proposed.
What I would be worried about is, if the planning gets knocked back now, and the developer reapplies in a few years time when the Maynooth line might be upgraded and the Metro West is on line, will he be given planning permission for an even higher density housing as a result of the rail improvements?

BostonB

The agenda seems to be to keep building regardless. Makes no sense to me. The whole planning system seems broken. With enough pressure it seems they can build anywhere.

That said theres always hope that any developer will think twice in the current conditions.

daymobrew

dtf wrote: »

What I would be worried about is, if the planning gets knocked back now, and the developer reapplies in a few years time when the Maynooth line might be upgraded and the Metro West is on line, will he be given planning permission for an even higher density housing as a result of the rail improvements?

The current Local Area Plan allows for high density development in the vicinity of the rail line. Those that wrote the LAP obviously haven't travelled on the peak hours trains. :mad:

BostonB

Isn't that the truth.

Rosser

The Kelly's Town rezoning is alarming to say the least, does anyone know what the stated position is of the local TD's and Councillors?

ciaran76

I have seen a few posters up around the Clonsilla village area about it but couldn't read who was behind it.

daymobrew

Rosser wrote: »

The Kelly's Town rezoning is alarming to say the least, does anyone know what the stated position is of the local TD's and Councillors?

On Tuesday 13th Leo Varadkar and Eithne Loftus of Fine Gael had a public meeting on the issue. Leo's website doesn't state their position - maybe they are seeing how the electorate feels.
Socialist Party had a public meeting in Clonsilla Inn on Tuesday 6th May. They are opposing.
Joan Burton's website doesn't state a position either.

oblivious

daymobrew wrote: »

maybe they are seeing how the electorate feels.

you can certainly bet on that, unfortunately these development tend to go head in some from or other. The real issue will be identify the point that will have the most effect upon the community and suggesting amendments.

i.e. maybe change the density to reduce congestion or better road/rail connections

daymobrew

oblivious wrote: »

you can certainly bet on that, unfortunately these development tend to go head in some from or other. The real issue will be identify the point that will have the most effect upon the community and suggesting amendments.

i.e. maybe change the density to reduce congestion or better road/rail connections

Or suggest appropriate "phasing" e.g. provide playground when 100 units are built.

oblivious

daymobrew wrote: »

Or suggest appropriate "phasing" e.g. provide playground when 100 units are built.

yea, just make sure it something Fingal County Council is interested in and be will agree maintain it, as playground an other public amenities are something developers lover to put on the plans with any though who will maintain them. I This is especially with playground as the can be security and anti social behavior problems that will only be addressed with Fingal County Council management.

and don't forget you allowed to make planning suggestions, not all are objection, a number end up helping the development.

StrawDub

daymobrew wrote: »

Leo's website doesn't state their position - maybe they are seeing how the electorate feels.

I was at the meeting the other night, Leo's seems to be in favor of the development with the provisions of schools being the reason. First time I spoke to him, he's very pass remarkable and I would go as far to say he was dismissive of anyone who was against the development, basically stating that if it didnt happen now it would happen in 2-3 years seeing as it's beside the train line etc.

daymobrew

oblivious wrote: »

yea, just make sure it something Fingal County Council is interested in and be will agree maintain it, as playground an other public amenities are something developers lover to put on the plans with any though who will maintain them.

As someone who lives beside the Riverwood playground and tennis courts I know all about "passive supervision" i.e. push the responsibility onto nearby residents but don't give them any power or assistance. It's a real pain constantly telling people that football is not permitted on the tennis courts (it's in the FCC By-laws and it damages nets and footballers intimidate younger tennis players), picking up glass and litter from the area, fixing stuff that FCC take months to fix. :mad:

Mailman

Regarding the porterstown connection; when I spoke to the Council staff who are looking for submissions they don't see building starting until before October/November at the earliest. That was about 2 months ago.

If you look a google maps you'll see the end of blanchardstown road south is only about 1.5km(can't remember the exact distance as it is a few months since I checked) from the nearest M4 off ramp. Would like to see a road built from M4 to connect to this as it would be a huge benefit to the near 100K(soon will be) people in Blanchardstown/D. 15 area. Going through Lucan is an absolute pain.

BostonB

Is that not whats the M50 is for?

Ruining a green belt IMO.

Nevyn

Hey are any of you lot coming to the beers this evening ?

Mailman

The M50 is beyond most of D15. coming from the west you have to pass to the south of D15, go up the M50 and enter it from the east.
the M50 bridge is right in the middle of the green belt and the Metro bridge will be crossing the Liffey here too.
As for it ruining a Green belt the current situation of everyone crossing the Liffey at Lucan is ruining what could be a decent little community in the heart of old Lucan.
There are a number of schools along the route people divert through at present.

oblivious

Thaedydal wrote: »

Hey are any of you lot coming to the beers this evening ?

Would love to but have another engagement on, have a great night all:)

ciaran76

Got a letter in the door from Labour (Joan Burton) yesterday about Kellystown and seemed she was opposed to this.(I didn't read it fully so that could be wrong opinion)

I had a quick glance and I seen one of the bullet points was that the area didn't need to be rezoned for schools to be built so no need to rezone it.

Here is a link to the letter I got....http://www.joanburton.ie/?postid=867

daymobrew

ciaran76 wrote: »

Got a letter in the door from Labour (Joan Burton) yesterday about Kellystown and seemed she was opposed to this.(I didn't read it fully so that could be wrong opinion)

I had a quick glance and I seen one of the bullet points was that the area didn't need to be rezoned for schools to be built so no need to rezone it.

She is right that schools can be built on green belt land (which is how Kellystown is currently zoned). Do you think that the land owners would sell bits of their land for a school or will they expect rezoning in return?

oblivious

daymobrew wrote: »

She is right that schools can be built on green belt land (which is how Kellystown is currently zoned). Do you think that the land owners would sell bits of their land for a school or will they expect rezoning in return?

even if a compulsory purchase order is put on it, it will be sold at market rate and there can be fast track of the planning procedure for schools and such

daymobrew

oblivious wrote: »

even if a compulsory purchase order is put on it, it will be sold at market rate and there can be fast track of the planning procedure for schools and such

Apparently, in Irish law, CPO is not available for the purchase of school sites.

oblivious

daymobrew wrote: »

Apparently, in Irish law, CPO is not available for the purchase of school sites.

Its no loss really, as by the time the dept of education gets Fingal to buy the land its is usually been a few years and and the price has gone up a lot. I had experiences of this problem.

but the sad thing is back in 2001 FF/government scraped plan to bring in legislation that you have made developers provide section of land for public use a the start of developments and not years down the road as happens in d15

oblivious

For those interested there is an information Meeting on Kellystown Rezoning - Saturday 24th May at 11am in the Clonsilla Inn by Joan Burton

BostonB

oblivious wrote: »

For those interested there is an information Meeting on Kellystown Rezoning - Saturday 24th May at 11am in the Clonsilla Inn by Joan Burton

Only just heard about this. Anyone go?

BostonB

Mailman wrote: »

The M50 is beyond most of D15. coming from the west you have to pass to the south of D15, go up the M50 and enter it from the east.
the M50 bridge is right in the middle of the green belt and the Metro bridge will be crossing the Liffey here too.
As for it ruining a Green belt the current situation of everyone crossing the Liffey at Lucan is ruining what could be a decent little community in the heart of old Lucan.
There are a number of schools along the route people divert through at present.

My point was really, that if you build access it will draw more traffic, like moths to a light, which leads to more development. Its all chipping away at the green belt. So you'll just be ruining another area, rather than saving one as you suggest. Lucan is fine off peak, so its only commuter traffic thats causing a problem.

The other point is there isn't the infrastructure between D.15 and the city center to facilitate communting of a large population in and out of the city center. Theres effectively only 3 main roads into the city center, each one badly bottlenecked, Navan RD, (one lane), The Park, (one lane), Chapelizod (one lane). These 3 roads are handling commuters from a massive catchment area stretching to Navan in effect. So as these roads back up. As they've always done, the gridlock extends back blocking access to M50 and other routes. Feeding more traffic into this, and greating better links into D.15 isn't going to help. Theres no where for it to go. Which is why some of it now spills out into Lucan etc.

Why people would choose to live somewhere thats a commuting nightmare for their work baffles me. Or move into an area thats been plagued with traffic problems for decades then complain about it as if its a new problem. If the infrastructures not there, its not going to change overnight. Not with this govt anyway.

oblivious

BostonB wrote: »

Only just heard about this. Anyone go?

I couldn't make it:(

Also just to left you know if anyone want to put in a planing objection or observation i think the deadline in the 5th of June. I just that the planning is organized in such a way if you don't go in with the initial round with Fingal your locked out of the apples process to fingal and An Bord Pleanála.

daymobrew

oblivious wrote: »

Also just to left you know if anyone want to put in a planing objection or observation i think the deadline in the 5th of June. I just that the planning is organized in such a way if you don't go in with the initial round with Fingal your locked out of the apples process to fingal and An Bord Pleanála.

The proposed Kellystown rezoning is not a normal planning permission application - it is a change in the local area plan. So, people are submitting free observations (20 euro for normal planning permission observations/objections) and there isn't a Bord Pleanala appeal step.

oblivious

So its just fingal initially?

oblivious

this maybe of interest to some, i presume daymobrew you may have seen this

http://www.riverwoodres.com/content/view/78/1/

here are some suggest options

A. I support the rezoning of Kellystown without preconditions.
B. I support the rezoning of Kellystown but on the condition that new housing is only built after adequate infrastructure (rail/road etc) has been put in place.
C. I reject the rezoning of Kellystown.

I think B is probability the best and most likely option

daymobrew

oblivious wrote: »

this maybe of interest to some, i presume daymobrew you may have seen this

http://www.riverwoodres.com/content/view/78/1/

I maintain that website, though the text was written by the Riverwood Residents Association PRO.