Bulimia

LegacyUser

So, another long time looker again. Im cryin out for help here and anything is apprcieated

Good things first, I have a good job, lots of friends and am with the man I reckon will be for good (fingers crossed!) but have been bulimic for about 10 years, my teeth are in an awful state (I hide it), I put on a show for everyone else, I'm just hopin for advise from someone in the or around the same position

Big thanks

Carrigart Exile

anyadvise wrote: »

So, another long time looker again. Im cryin out for help here and anything is apprcieated

Good things first, I have a good job, lots of friends and am with the man I reckon will be for good (fingers crossed!) but have been bulimic for about 10 years, my teeth are in an awful state (I hide it), I put on a show for everyone else, I'm just hopin for advise from someone in the or around the same position

Big thanks

you need medical and psychiatric help. Bulimia affects more than your teeth, it damages your other organs.

Macha

This is true. You really should seek medical help. I posted this for another poster:

http://bodywhys.ie/

Do any of your friends or does your partner know that you're bulimic? If not, the fear of them finding out is probably adding to your stress. It is important to be able to speak to someone, be it a relative, partner, friend or even just a therapist if you aren't ready for that yet.

Bodywhys will be able to put you in touch with a therapist that will help you out.

It's great that you're focusing on the positive in your life. Just think how your life will be even greater when you've kicked this thing!

On a side note, I hope embarassment isn't what's stopping you going to see a dentist.

LegacyUser

no- having to aknowledge and face up to the problem is stopping her going to the dentist...

Macha

gill44 wrote: »

no- having to aknowledge and face up to the problem is stopping her going to the dentist...

Uh she just admitted that she has been bulimic for 10 years. That in my mind constitutes acknolwedgement that she has a problem.

And yes it is embarassment that stops bulimics from going to the dentist. They are afraid that the dentist will realise why they're having all these problems. I'm speaking from experience.

OP - the best thing you can do after vomiting is to drink a small glass of milk, unless you feel it will induce you to vomit again. Most important is to not brush your teeth as you will be brushing the stomach acid into your teeth - a common mistake.

But really, talk to someone as soon as possible. It can only get better if you do.

How Strange

anyadvise wrote: »

So, another long time looker again. Im cryin out for help here and anything is apprcieated
Good things first, I have a good job, lots of friends and am with the man I reckon will be for good (fingers crossed!) but have been bulimic for about 10 years, my teeth are in an awful state (I hide it), I put on a show for everyone else, I'm just hopin for advise from someone in the or around the same position

OP, I've got a family member with bulimia. I'd say your friends and your bf have their suspicions about you. Contrary to what you might want to believe, bulimics act very strange in a food situation i.e. family dinner, night out in a restuarant, lunch with friends. They eat loads, probably more than anyone else, and then within ten mins go to the toilet. If you're making yourself sick around your bf then he will have noticed the 'bits' in the toilet bowl.

Unfortunately, I've no real advice for you but I would urge you to contact bodywhys and take some steps to address it. Bulimia has more to do with psychological issues than weight (from my limited experience) so you may want to find a good therapist experienced in working with bulimics and work through whatever problems you have.

LegacyUser

thanks for the advise, really crazy but haven't found anyone in the same position. Contacted bodywhys but didn't find them helpful, maybe got the wrong person on the day, I'm open minded about this and will try again.

My parents know and have tried all to help in the past but I've become very good at secrets.

Friends, well had some in the same position but seemed to have pulled out of it, I'm really ashamed not to have, so don't talk any more

The boyf, honestly my best friend although some might think this is silly seein as I have such a secretive problem, but he is someone who make me happy despite all this and we have a brilliant click. But afraid I'll push him away or maybe he'll think I'm nuts if I tell him as he once told me in some randon conversation he didn't buy all this hype about eating disorders

Me, I'm 27, pretty so I'm told but if your like this for so long, you sometimes stop believing your are.

Dentist need someone to advise me where to go or may there is some dentist out there that is familiar with this, also a big time ashamed, and not afraid to admit

All I'm really asking for is some encouragement to sort myself out and not lose all that is good in my life and there is alot




Sorry for the long mail but need to fix this

LegacyUser

I'm in the same boat, it makes you think you're crazy sometimes, i'll be watchimg this thread myself..

Macha

Well hey, try bodywhys again and if they're no good, why don't you go to your GP? They are trained to help with all medical problems, not just physical ones. S/he might also be able to refer you to a good dentist. Depending on where you live, this dentist in Blackrock is fantastic:

Dr. Fleetwood
01 288 7320

Make sure you aren't being ripped off, but the most important thing is to find a dentist with whom you feel comfortable.

I bet your boyfriend will surprise you with how supportive he is. My boyfriend didn't understand it at first but after reading up on it and me explaining things, he is very supportive.

Remember, admitting you have a problem and even coming on here and posting about it is a very big step, so well done for that. Now you just have to take the next step. Pick up the phone and make an appointment with your GP or call Bodywhys again. They have information on their website aimed at partners & friends of sufferers so you could sit down with your boyfriend and show him the website.

It can be beaten, I can tell you that. As for your friends, it may be the case that they have beaten it and congratulations to them if they have. But it may be the case that they are in the same situation as you and have just stopped talking about it. Eating disorders are incredibly secretive.

Best of luck and let us know how you get on!

irish-anabel

Get in touch with the HSE. Make an appointment with your doctor, explain your problem and you will most likely be directed to a psychiatrist. For me it was free but Im a minor so I dont know what its like for adults.
Stay strong love and good luck.

Amanda

Big time encouragement to you for even posting. It's a hard one but you're doing the right thing opening the can of worms. Seek as much help as you can and try and talk as much as you can, is there one person you trust? Even a talk with your GP.... talking helps so much to start the recovery process. There are a lot of books out there in stores too if you don't feel a group is for you. I didn't find the group the way to go, and went one on one but it took ages before I found anyone to talk to properly about it. Body whys were helpful but again, the group situation, I found very hard. But don't give up trying to sort it out, it will be worth it, and you're not alone, there's so many people with this issue who have gotten past it and made it a smaller issue in their lives than the other good things that they have, and I hope same thing happens for you. Well woman centres do one on one counselling ($$$... about € 65 a session) but you can claim some of it back if you have a health care plan. I know it's expensive but this is your health. Best of luck.

LegacyUser

Hey All

Genuinely appreciate all the helpful replies. Really kind advise. Am, prob sound very selfish but thought this site might be a bit more supportive of this prob, maybe my issue is still very rare, not sure, but will tell ye how things go if anyone is ever interested

LegacyUser

Okay I dunno what I am, basically I read every where that Bulimia is when you over over indulge and then make yourself vomit and I dont have any of the symptoms like fatigue, mood swings etc so I dunno, I know I have a problem and I do make myself sick sometimes, but it could be just eating a lil too much at dinner or have a few biscuits with a cup of tea... and its not major vomitting like I have read when people vomit until they are bleeding and things

I know I have a problem but I dont know if its like the startin of bumilia or what, I am always consious of my weight, I am afraid to tell any one what I have been doing as I am so embarrased, I know I am too thin (not sure what weight but in around 8-8stone 5 pound and am 5ft 8 so am quite thin)

Is anyone else going through the same as myself...? i am really confused

LegacyUser

I'm having this problem too OP, it's been 15 years now and I honestly can't remember the last time I ate and didn't vomit afterwards. My partner has told me that if I don't get it sorted out we'll break up because they won't stay with me and watch me slowly kill myself, I'm not even obsessed about my weight, I'm 6 foot and my BMI is only 17 and I only weigh 8.5 stone, I just feel better when I vomit, it's like an emotional release. I've learned to hide it really well too but I got caught 3 weeks ago and now it's getting so hard to keep things down because I'm being watched and it's making me more aware of it. I love my partner but even thats not enough to stop me, I'm trying so fu*king hard right now but it's consuming me at times, I obsess at times about vomiting, when I eat all I can think about is getting to a toilet asap or I panic and feel like I can't breath

LegacyUser

i do that too...and im told the same thing...but im 7.8 stone and 5'4 so i think im still healthy and have no stopped periods or anything...

Macha

Anyadvise, if there is one thing this thread demonstrates, it is that bulimia and other eating disorders are not rare at all. I am very interested in how you get on, and I'm sure many people in here are as well. Please come back & tell us how you are getting on.

Bul, the main symptom of bulimia is self-induced vomiting. Fatigue, mood swings, etc are other symptoms or side-effects of the illness but do not have to be present. Each person experiences bulimia in their own way. Sometimes it is hard to know what a healthy attitude towards your weight is like these days, with the media so full of commentary and analysis of women's bodies. You almost feel that if you're not doing something about your weight there's something wrong with you!

I know what it's like to be always conscious of your weight. You must accept that this is not a healthy attitude. Combined with the behaviour you've described and your height and weight, I would really recommend that you get in contact with your GP. S/he can really help with this and can pass you onto a specialised expert to help. Remember, this issue is very common and you'd be surprised how often your GP will have had to deal with this. The most important thing is to make that call, make the appointment. You will feel so much better afterwards-trust me!

Unreg1234, it sounds like you really need to get some help with your bulimia. Have you tried talking to anyone else about it? Have you spoken to a medical professional yet? Again, it is really important that you seek medical help, especially if you have been bulimic for over 15 years. The physical damage that you are doing to your organs and digestive system can be very real and serious.

1890 200 444 - the Bodywhys helpline. Please give them or your GP a call.

The feeling of being watched now is probably adding to your stress. Has your partner read up on bulimia and does s/he understand that the last thing you need right now are threats and the pressure of feeling watched?

http://bodywhys.ie/t.php?c=supporting_someone/family_friends.html

This is a very good link to show people who are trying to support someone with bulimia. Best of luck and let us know how you get on.

LegacyUser

I do know that i have a form of this condition but if anyone talks to me about it i shy away..i deny it, i play it down and i am very sly about it at times...it is like a secret place to run and hide and its mine...its my crutch...i'm protective of it..i nurture it...yes i do think im sick...7-8 yrs now..started during leaving cert yr...had put on loads of weight cause of an acc and cause my mother had a thing about overfeeding people which is a condition in itself..
it will ruin my relationship eventually...
I am also paranoid about this thing..i feel like everyone knows..
But i will get there..i can talk to partner when hes not in my face about it...dont feel like he really wants to though other than cop urself on mentality...its not that easy..its like narcotics to me..i will always need a crutch to lean on outside of people just have to find a harmless one...

LegacyUser

God it's good to talk about this, not feelin so alone now, so thanks

Loads of stuff the rest of ye are saying rings true for me too, I'm not moody also, actualy not bad company at all I think! (oh very cocky)

Oh wanna kick this, so sick of it preoccuping my life so much, don't want to hurt my family or myself anylonger or lose my partner, who gets the brunt of the secretiveness as he's very open

Trying to build it up to ring Bodywhys, maybe today but what do you say or ask for?

And really genuinely best of luck to you all, we don't deserve to put ourselves through this, missing out on so much and hope I can take my own advise

irish-anabel

To those girls who have just posted about their problems, it doesn't matter if you don't exactly fit every criteria, by the sounds of things you all have eating disorders. Don't let the fact that you seem not to want to self pity hold you back from getting help. You don't have to suffer like this.

LegacyUser

Its like you have your little routines and you think it'll be really bad to break them and what will you do if you lose the control and ability to keep things the way they are? i.e :manageable...
when it actaully does happen then its not so bad and you actaully have some fun but then its back to routine and 'normality'. I do be so afraid of what will happen if i have to sit down and keep a meal down 7 days a a week..will i have nothing routine to cling to?
Also will i get really big?

it is a disgusting disease but i know it has been going on longer than centuries and men were the first to suffer from it really...first time i heard about it was in history in school...the idea always held fascination for me..

The strange thing is when i get bigger i definitely feel so much sexier and alive...kinda spirited if ya know what i mean?

Macha

Anyadvise, just ask them for general advise!! Tell them the truth: that you don't know what to do. Ask them if they can recommend someone you can talk to.Unfortunately, the line is only open for 2 hours every day and its only open until 12pm today. So you have 30 minutes to get your ass into gear & give them a call!

anon 809, you're being very hard on yourself. Why do you think that you will always need a crutch? Humans are social creatures and we all need other people. When we are going though hard times, we lean on things, behaviours or other people. Its natural and it doesn't mean there's anything wrong with you.

The problem with bulimia is that it is a very unhealthy crutch (as you point out) but the bigger problem is that it can be very long-term crutch. There is some underlying issue that is causing the bulimia and until you sort it out, it won't go away. Remedying bulimia doesn't mean moving onto a less-harmful crutch, it's about getting rid of the need for a long-term crutch.

It is natural for you to be secretive about it because you're afraid that if people find out, they will try to take it away from you. But you need to do this in your own time, and you need to be surrounded by supportive people who will help and not hinder you. It appears that you boyfriend does not understand what you're going though - a common problem. Try showing him this link:

http://bodywhys.ie/t.php?c=supporting_someone/family_friends.html

It might also help for you to read it so you understand where he is coming from.

Crumble Froo

to be honest, as someone who suffered with bulimia for several years (and still kinda suffers a bit of a 'hangover' with regards food), i have to say, i never really found bodywhys to be any good

my parents found out after about 3/4 years, and went to a doctor, i got coerced into attending a 'community' counsellor, which, i have to say, was some of the biggest wastes of time i've ever encountered. i opted out of counselling saying i'd beat it myself, which, naturally, i didnt/couldnt/wouldnt. few years later, **** got really bad, and my parents decided it was absolutely necessary for me to get treatment, i was heading down a really bad path. asked around (i have no idea where. they were as good at secret keeping as i was), and came up with this place, which they said had a really high success rate.

i didnt have a lot of choice, but said i'd go in with an open mind. went in the first day to my counsellor, with an open mind, and just chatted. about everything and anything. didnt need to mention the ED, just build up some sort of rapport with the dude (twas a guy, and him, saved my life). went to see him every week for a good year or so (my personal situation meant that after a while my attendance got sketchy, it's hard to keep track of how long i was there), but my god, that place saved my life. there's a fair few counselours there, all with different methods and stuff (i got lucky, mine was perfect first time ), as well as a group thing once a week, which was just the most inspiring, emotional, funny thing i've ever known. the kinda place where everyone *gets* what you're talking about, where you can talk and laugh about what you got up to during the week, or you can spill your heart, and people will be there for you and with you.

it is always going to be a long and hard road to recovery. not gonna lie to you there, it's hard, and there's times where it seems easier to just give in to the disease, but fúck that, recovery is just the most amazing thing. i never realised how down the disease had gotten me until i started getting better, i can't possibly describe the feeling, but it's just... amazing. just those one or two moments of pure happiness and clarity, they are worth living for and working towards attaining more and more often. it's so hard to describe, and i remember many sessions at the group thing that people had had that little epiphany, and it was just the difference between night and day, and the kind of thing that spurs you toward finally freeing yourself from all the behaviours and negativity.

i, from personal experience, could highly recommend the marino centre. but the most important thing for you really is to admit to the behaviours, to eating behaviours, often things like depression, negativity, perfectionism are part and parcel of life too, and really, the most important thing is to open up to life, open up to people you love and who love you. they are going to be the most important things in helping you to overcome the bulimia. it is up to you, you are the only person who can change you, but ****, i couldnt have done it without the support of friends and family, who were there on bad days. people you could just totally vent to who mightnt have understood, but tried to understand, and just let me rant at them cos i needed to, people to listen without necessarily trying to fix it.

anyway, im gettin all rambly now, if you want anything, feel free to PM me (if you have a usual boards account, or even if you set up a second one or something...)

LegacyUser

anon 809 wrote: »

Its like you have your little routines and you think it'll be really bad to break them and what will you do if you lose the control and ability to keep things the way they are? i.e :manageable...
when it actaully does happen then its not so bad and you actaully have some fun but then its back to routine and 'normality'. I do be so afraid of what will happen if i have to sit down and keep a meal down 7 days a a week..will i have nothing routine to cling to?
Also will i get really big?

That scares the life out of me too, I feel horrible when I eat and I can't imagine having to do it 7 days a week. Vomiting is like a high to me, before I vomit I'll be cranky and quiet but afterwards I become the total opposite and become all chatty and happy but I tend to crash really quickly because I don't know what my body runs on anymore, nothing ever really stays down. I know I'm destroying myself and I know I need help but even that scares me because I'm afraid I'll be signed in somewhere if people see the extent of what I've been doing to hide this

LegacyUser

I had counselling for this once but the guy was so uninformed that i couldn't go back!
Kept comparing me to a car engine and telling me what about the kids in africa? didnt have the desired effect just made me feel worse and more selfish and guilty...
But after reading this and posting today i printed out the bodywhys page for partners and am going to leave it with my boyf... i must try something but i dont have the money...i might get a self help book, but even buying that in public is shaming...

LegacyUser

Am there with ye, just feel so wreaked by this on the inside, but life and soul for loads on the outside. Every time I looked at this thread, I kinda felt very selfish, yet sad, thinkin god we have real problems, wish mine were as simple as others, but being sallow minded I reckon

LegacyUser

Do u find that u dont have to put ur fingers down ur throat?everything just comes up once u in bathroom? I cant handle the feeling of feeling full and everthing judt comes up itself....

Moss

Do you have health insurance?

If you do I would honesty recommend St. John of God's hospital. Its excellent. The grounds are lovely, the nursing staff are really kind, and you will get the best professional help available. Its as good as anywhere in Europe. Bulima can be treated, but its not easy as an outpatient. Also please note that Bulima is considered to be related to other anxiety disorders and it responds well to anti-depressants. Aneroxia on the other hand does not.

St. John of God's has a special eating disorder programme that involves group therapy, occupational therapy, and medication if necessary. You would meet lots of other people with eating disorders and the doctors will introduce you to some people who have recovered fully.

You have had this problem a long time now, so to be honest its not something you're just going to snap out of. You need the best professional medical treatment.

Even if you don't have health insurance you can go to St. John of Gods but I imagine the wait would be longer. Bodywhys is a good idea, but don't just go to that by itself. You really need to be talking to a doctor about this. They will probably refer you to a psychiatrist.

Its very hard to get help if you do not have people supporting you and encouraging you to stick with treatment. Make sure to tell those close to you what is going on.

Don't let this ruin your life, you are stronger than this illness. Please get help.

MysticalSoul

I am recovered myself. Check out the Marino Therapy Centre - they really helped me. The majority of the therapists there are themselves recovered, and all the careworkers that provide a support service, are all recovered too. THey also have a helpline too. Best of luck. Oh, I know of a good dentist too. PM me if you want is details.

Moss

irishamethyst wrote: »

I am recovered myself. Check out the Marino Therapy Centre - they really helped me. The majority of the therapists there are themselves recovered, and all the careworkers that provide a support service, are all recovered too. THey also have a helpline too. Best of luck. Oh, I know of a good dentist too. PM me if you want is details.

I have some questions about the Marino Therapy Centre. I looked up the Marino Therapy Centre website. It says they are all highly qualified but I couldn't find any mention of what exactly their qualifications are. Just compare the MTC with the Clanwilliam Institute: http://www.clanwilliam.ie/ . The Clanwilliam Institute has a list of all staff and their qualifications.

The MTC talk about a 'holistic approach' and the word spiritual is mentioned. This sets off alarm bells in my mind.

Then I found something I find extremely dodgy. It is the advertisement of "Intensive Therapy Weeks Abroad".

There is absolutely no good evidence to say that it is necessary, or even appropriate, to take people with eating disorders off to Prague or Lanzarote for "therapy". Common sense would tell you if someone has an eating disorder the last thing they should be thinking about is rubbing on suncream and lying on a beach. This totally trivialises life threatening mental illness. I mean really, take a look at this from the MTC website. I would laugh, but it is far too serious and sad.

Basically these charlatans are taking vulnerable anorexic and bulimic men and women off to Lanzarote or Prague for whatever it is that they call "therapy". I don't even want to think about what they charge for these services. They don't say what they charge for anything on the website.

Stay a million million miles from any sort of organisation like this.

Mental illness is a medical condition. You need to see a doctor. Start with a GP. They will most likely refer you to a psychatrist who will be able to get you the most appropriate treatment and the best chance of recovery.

I re-emphasis again that the three month treatment programme in St. John of God's hospital in Stillorgan is the best available. If you do the programme you will get:

• The attention of a multidisciplinary team, consisting of a psychiatrist, psychologist and social worker
• Individual psychotherapy
• Group psychotherapy
• Occupational Therapy
• Medication if deemed appropriate by the psychiatrist
• Kindness and support from the nursing staff
• A relaxed and stress free environment
• The opportunity to meet and make friends with other sufferers of eating disorders.
• The opportunity to meet individuals who have recovered fully
• The opportunity to attend talks and lectures on eating disorders and other mental illnesses

Needless to say anyone working in St. John of God's will be qualified to the highest standard.

Please trust me. I had a long battle with a mental illness. When I look back now my biggest regret is that I listened to poor advice given by "counsellors" and other charlatans when I should have stuck with the evidence based best practice treatment.

Crumble Froo

honestly, after spending a few years with marino, i actually never came across the foreign thing. the counsellours, i can't speak for all of them, but i know mine was absolutely professional and friendly and extremely extremely helpful to me the whole time. they do have a spiritual aspect to them (which i only came across during the group sessions), but it leaves the interpretation of the word very very much open to the individual. actually, i remember there being a resounding non-religious feel to the group, but everyone still had something to say about spirituality and what it meant to them.

as far as going to a psychiatrist goes, first thing mine did was try put me on drugs, which i absolutely refused to do. i knew that the problem was to do with issues in my life, and i knew that the problem was something that i needed to work through. drugs, in my experience, just deal with teh symptoms, and not the problems itself.

i think, moss, that for the most part, differnet things work for different people. between my one counsellor in marino, and the couple that i met through teh group, these people do very much genuinely care about helping people, and there are a lot of people who come back to the group as careworkers, or just to check in every now and then who have been helped immensely by the people in marino. i did the whole doctors approach, and the psychologist and psychiatrist and social worker thing, and it was a genuine waste of time. if anything, it was a total regression period for me, the time i spent with them.

i look at my partner and one of my best mates over here as well, who were both hospitalised with anoerexia, and they are both still doing very very badly, despite having all the mental health doctors and professionals at their disposal while in hospital.

i could say a lot more negative things about some of the medical institutions that deal with this kind of thing, but i like to think that a lot of attitudes and professional measure have changed over time, and that people are genuinely trying to help.

JuliusCaesar

The recommended evidence-based treatment for bulimia is here:
http://www.nice.org.uk/nicemedia/pdf/cg009quickrefguide.pdf

But remember we are all individuals and what suits one may not suit another. However, go the route with the best evidence first. Find out about it and see if it appeals.

Moss

Crumble Froo wrote: »

drugs, in my experience, just deal with teh symptoms, and not the problems itself.

Research has shown that there is a significant biological and genetic component to mental illness. This research has been carried out by studying non-identical and identical twins and identical twins seperated at birth, by neuroimaging the brain, and through studies of patient responses to pharmalogical treatment. Pharmalogical treatment does in fact tackle the cause, or at least one of the very important causes, of mental illness. The symptoms lift because imbalances in certain neurotransmitters in the brain have been corrected.

Crumble Froo wrote: »

as far as going to a psychiatrist goes, first thing mine did was try put me on drugs, which i absolutely refused to do. i knew that the problem was to do with issues in my life, and i knew that the problem was something that i needed to work through.

Psychiatrists are doctors specialised in the treatment of mental illness. If a psychiatrist diagnoses someone with a mental illness they will consider the best available treatment based on the best scientific evidence. For most mental disorders the most effective treatment is with medication or medication and psychotherapy combined. For example, were a psychiatrist not to prescibe medication for Major Depressive Disorder he/she would be guilty of malpractice and would be open to litigation from the patient and censurship by the Medical Council.

Anti-anxiety and anti-depressant medication can be of significant benefit to people with anorexia and bulimia, more so for people with bulima. Furthermore, it is not uncommon for individuals with eating disorders to have comorbid depression. Are you seriously suggesting that a doctor should deny someone with an eating disorder the best chance of recovery by not prescribing pharmalogical treatment? Individual and/or group psychotherapy has been shown to be helpful for people with eating disorders and psychiatrists will recommend and refer patients for this treatment also.

Crumble Froo wrote: »

i think, moss, that for the most part, differnet things work for different people.

This is a very facile statement. I'm sure you could find someone who will tell you they recovered because they went swimming with a dolphin. The point is that there is no evidence that this is likely to work. There is evidence based treatment which is proven to work and then there is random nonsense.

Crumble Froo wrote: »

between my one counsellor in marino, and the couple that i met through teh group, these people do very much genuinely care about helping people, and there are a lot of people who come back to the group as careworkers, or just to check in every now and then who have been helped immensely by the people in marino. i did the whole doctors approach, and the psychologist and psychiatrist and social worker thing, and it was a genuine waste of time. if anything, it was a total regression period for me, the time i spent with them.

I understand you are not happy with the medical treatment you received. You didn't benefit from the best practice treatment and recovered by other means. Fine. However, the psychiatric hospitals are lifesavers for tens of thousands of people in Ireland. Most people recover fully with the evidence based treatment. Only negative and critical stories find their way into the media. You will not read about the people whose lives are saved and who are restored to full health because of psychiatric treatment. Contrary to what you might think, your case is not typical. Again, are you suggesting that the OP should not access the best available professional help?

Crumble Froo wrote: »

i look at my partner and one of my best mates over here as well, who were both hospitalised with anoerexia, and they are both still doing very very badly, despite having all the mental health doctors and professionals at their disposal while in hospital.

Anorexia is a difficult illness to recover from. Sadly, there is a significant percentage that do not recover with treatment and ten percent eventually die due to starvation or related medical complications. This emphasises the need to get professional help quickly.

MysticalSoul

I would second that different approaches work for different people. Even in Marino the different therapists would have a different slant on the approach used. I attended two different therapists during my time there - one a psychologist, and then moved onto a counsellor when she left. Both were very professional in their approach. Also, as a trainee counsellor I can see what approach they use.

Secondly, there are different types of depression, so medication is not always the answer. There is chemical depression, the type that has been mentioned in this thread, and there is also environmental/reactive depression.

Full recovery is completely possible, but what full recovery means to one person is different to another - for me it was not just about the behaviours, it was a lot more complex than that. Also, spirituality is important in every day life - spirituality is not about religion - but for me it was about finding my place in this world, and making sense of it in my own way.

MysticalSoul

Also, if you want to talk anonymously to someone there hare helplines too - bodywhys, Marino, the Samaritans to name a few.

LegacyUser

I've been suffering with bulimia on and off for 4 years now - almost kicked it back in Jan when my relationship broke up (because of it) then I realised that even when i was able to sort myseklf out he thought i was a horrible liar for not telling him and although he was supportive he couldn't trust me ever again so i lost him.

Its been a slippery slope since then and every day becomes more of a challenge, it was my borthday yesterday, came home drunk and stared at a paracetemol box for an hour considering ending it all. I'm not in control of anything and i can't cope anymore.

LegacyUser

juicyunreg wrote: »

I'm not in control of anything and i can't cope anymore.

Sufferers of anorexia and bullimia start off thinking they have full control. Bullimics convince themselves that they will stop after they lose a few pounds in most cases. Like anorexia it has its own pattern, and if the behaviour shows any 'success' it may be one of few things that make them happy in their lives - why would they stop? They embrace the feeling, and before long they are hooked. After some time they start to feel like they want to stop, but continue. Then the loss of control of it causes the sufferer to delve deeper into depression.

They start to feel like they cant handle it anymore. Something that used to make them feel like they had a happy little secret is now the bain of their life, and some begin to feel suicidal.

Its a double-edged sword. You stand a chance of getting through if you get help, but that terrifies the hell out of any bullimic or anorexic.

Help = eating normally

Eating normal = gaining weight

Talking to someone = trying to trick you into eating again


And when your own mind is against you getting help, suicide seems the only way out.

What I would advise any anorexic or bullimic is to concentrate on the fact that they know they have a problem, and want it to end the problem, the right way. Act immediately, dont put it off or you wont do it. The longer it goes on for each sufferer the more serious problems it has for your body, if not death.

Dont let the illness control you, take your life back.

LegacyUser

I've been to like 6 different doctors, I've been hypnotised, I've done NLP, i've considered going in to residential care although that option is not for me - I've attended ED meetings. I really feel like I want to get better. I live at home with my parents who don't know what to do with me. I'm such a burden on them, I've a really good job which I love but I can't make my wages last past the end of the week because I spend every cent of them on food.

I want to buy a house, I want a normal relationship.....I'm not able to drive buy a shop without going in side and buying sweets.

I don't think anyone will ever understand what a curse this is, I feel like I'm lying to the whole world - every day is an obsession about how I'll get away to throw up and making sure no one hears me.

I could never end it all because my parents have suffered enough with me, even just for them I wish I could get better.

I now I'm wrecking someone elses thread, I'm sorry, I just think bulimia is totally the worst thing that can be a part of anyones life - even if you watch documentarys or read the statistics - something like 90% of people re-lapse because once it's in you it doesn't come out.

I would rather die than spend the rest of my days like this, but I know that would be a selfish thing to do so I wouldn't

It's just a really ****ty existence, was more bearable when i'd a boyfriend to help me through but he had to get away from it, glad someone could

LegacyUser

Juicyunreg wrote: »

i've considered going in to residential care although that option is not for me

Can I ask why not? It seems you are running away from it because it stands a very real chance of helping you. You want it to go away, but you arent ready to accept something that could work.

Juicyunreg wrote: »

I now I'm wrecking someone elses thread, I'm sorry

I know the thread wasnt originally yours, but the topic is bullimia. You have very common symptoms and thought processes of a bullimic, so you arent going off-topic here.

All advice or opinions given here could help the OP, you, or any of the other suffers.

Moss

irishamethyst wrote: »

I would second that different approaches work for different people.

I see. So if one person recovers from Bulima from swimming with Dolphins we should tell everyone with Bulimia to give it a try. The fact of the matter is that there is an evidence based treatment which is proven to work. Everything else is just random nonsense, which is unlikely to work, but there may be some cases where it does work. To give the patient the best chance of recovery the evidence based treatment must be looked at first.

irishamethyst wrote: »

Even in Marino the different therapists would have a different slant on the approach used.

Well that is reassuring. So each therapist has a different perspective on what will work best. Look, if they can't even agree amongst themselves as to what is most effective then what is the point in going to see them?

irishamethyst wrote: »

I attended two different therapists during my time there - one a psychologist, and then moved onto a counsellor when she left. Both were very professional in their approach. Also, as a trainee counsellor I can see what approach they use.

What "approach" is that? If you are a trainee counsellor, then let me tell you some facts about mental illness, before you cause too much harm. There is a genetic and biological component to all mental illnesses. I know the exact figures for Bipolar Disorder so I will talk about that. Researchers have undertaken studies of identical and non-identical twins, where one of each pair of twins has a mood swing [a Major Depressive Episode or an Elation]. With non-idential twins if one twin has a mood swing there is a 15% chance that the other twin will have a mood swing too. If the twins are identical and one twin has a mood swing there is a 70% chance the other will have a mood swing too. Therefore the closer one is genetically to someone with bipolar disorder the more likely they are to develop the illness. Studies of twins seperated at birth show the same results.

Furthermore, using neuroimaging technology doctors can see anomalies and unusual patterns in the brains of people with bipolar and their family members.

You can no more talk someone out of bipolar disorder than you can talk someone out of having diabetes. The same applies for severe endogenous depression.

A striking aspect of eating disorders is that they tend to run in families. It is appropriate that anyone with an eating disorder/mood disorder/ or any form of psychiatric distress would be referred to a psychiatrist for an assessment as medication may be necessary.

This is a quote from Dr. Kay Redfield Jamison’s book, ‘Night Falls Fast, Understanding Suicide’. She is one of the world’s leading authorities on mood disorders. What she writes here applies equally to all mental illness.

“The complexity of the suicidal mind and brain demands for its care a complexity of clinical thought and treatment. Psychotherapy alone, if used without addressing or treating the underlying psychopathology or biological vulnerabilities, is generally unlikely to prevent profoundly suicidal individuals from killing themselves. The ability to diagnose psychopathology accurately and to refer patients to colleagues for medication when necessary is a nonnegotiable fundamental of good clinical practice. Not to do so is malpractice.”

irishamethyst wrote: »

Secondly, there are different types of depression, so medication is not always the answer. There is chemical depression, the type that has been mentioned in this thread, and there is also environmental/reactive depression.

I agree. Medication may not be necessary in some cases but you're not qualified to make that judgement. That's for a doctor to decide.

MysticalSoul

Moss, you seem to be taking a lot of what I say out of context. For this reason, I am not replying to any more of your messages in this thread. The only thing I will say is that unless you personally have experienced a certain approach or know someone who has, you cannot really say whether it works or not. There are two of us in this thread who have both said that the same centre worked for both of us, and to my knowledge, I do not who the other person is. I am assuming, as you are so focused on the academia aspect, that you a psych student. Also, your posts, are coming across as defensive when there is really no need to be.


OP I hope that you do seek treatment, in whatever means that is. Whether it be a counsellor, your doctor, or whatever. A lot of literature does say complete recovery is not possible, but I guarantee you that it is. My view is that such literature takes away from having hope, but there is always hope. Best of luck in whatever you decide to do

LegacyUser

Hi Op,

Well done on taking the first step to realising you have a problem.

I have had it for 11 yrs now and it has nearly destroyed me. I was blissfully happy with my partener until my mother commited suicide and I then started vomiting. My way of punishing myself (I realise now).

Anway, I hid it for years and knew all the tricks but got to the point where I was seriously ill. A good friend who I hadn't seen in years stayed with us for a while and one nite out on the lash I told her about it because she kept commenting on how thin I was. Anyway, she very matter of factly told me that she was telling my partner when we got home. I was horrified and realised I had to tell him. He was amazing and bought books and arranged counselling. Everything was ok for a while and I got myself together kinda! I was so bad that after a slice of toast I felt like I had eaten a 3 course meal, think my stomach must of shrunk to the size of a golf ball.

Unfortunatley, I couldn't get myself together and my boyfriend even paid for me to travel to the other side of the world to spend a yr with family for me to try get it together and get better. I did and failed. When I came beck he realised he had to walk away and it nearly killed me, I have never loved anyone like I loved that guy but respect that he couldn't keep watching me fade away and deal with the erratic moods I had. Euphoric one minute (after I vommited or like a bear with a sore arse when I needed to). I still think about him every day.

Basically, I am ok now but eat like I am in the army, everything is planned from the min I wake up, even if someone in work or something buys a bag of sweets or something and I have a few Im like ****, Im gonna have to barf.. Crazy ****. But I dont.. Also if I have a few drinks Im in trouble. So now I just dont eat when I drink, its the only way. Im with someone else now and have 2 kids and cant believe how I am controlled by this rotten disease (of the mind). My teeth are about half the size they used to be and I told my dentist the other day about my bulimia and he said if you do vomit make sure you rinse your mouth with water, but he said my teeth weren't to bad..

Op dont destroy your life.. A lot of people dont understand Bulimia and think oh you stick your fingers down your throat, what the fcuk??

Take it real slow and eat 'very' little and often and the biggest step you take is telling people cos they will be on your back and watching your every move.

Best of Luck...

LegacyUser

You've got so much going for you, as you said yourself, "a good job" "lots of friends" and a man you hope to be with for good. If you dont tell your partner and he eventually finds out he could be upset that you kept it from him for so long, in my opinion if you hope to be with this man for good he'll want to have the chance to help you.

My Mum was bulimic and when she told Dad all he wanted was to help, I was only 14 at the time but Mum told me about it when she got over it because she wanted me to know.She said she didnt think she'd get through it without Dad, it maybe it seems different to your situation but its not really.

I know how much courage it takes to admit your bulimic but you can do it, my Mum is so much happier now and you will be too, even telling people close to you will release stress.

People tell you your pretty because you are, dont stop believing that all I can say is I hope you get through this soon and that you find the confidence to tell your partner,if he's anyway decent he'll just want to help!

Wibbs

Moss wrote: »

then let me tell you some facts about mental illness, before you cause too much harm. There is a genetic and biological component to all mental illnesses.

Of course. "Facts" are fine but it's how you interpret such facts. Genetics are but a part of the puzzle. It would be not unlike saying that just because you come from a family of say engineers, then you will be one. Yes the genetic legacy of having skills that may be pertinent to engineering may be there, it does not make you one by default. Even if you decided to go in that direction you may be a crap one. There are clearly also environmental components. Tendencies may be there, but they have to be triggered.

If this wasn't the case then rates of depression and many other mental illnesses would be consistent among all classes and populations, They're simply not. Unskilled labourers have far higher(up to and more than twice as high) rates of depression than skilled workers and upper management types have even less. Hunter gatherer populations have almost none(and they have lives full of stressful triggers). The Amish and other groups of that ilk the same. What makes them more immune to these illnesses?

http://www.behsci.sote.hu/psycho.htm
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6VBF-49J8SHR-3&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=963df1611a130632d80dc8c7bab13069
http://bjp.rcpsych.org/cgi/content/abstract/178/40/s84
http://www.ocregister.com/ocregister/healthscience/healthfitness/article_1593756.php

Another comparison which bears some validity is type 2 diabetes. There appears to be a genetic component to that too, yet many populations, many among those mentioned before have little or no incidences of the disease by comparison.

I agree. Medication may not be necessary in some cases but you're not qualified to make that judgement.

And neither are you or me or anyone else. You have an opinion/approach like anyone else here and that's cool too, but that's all it is, an opinion. Without a direct insight into the OP's life, past present and potential future, we're all stabbing in the dark. The most we can hop to do in a forum like this is to share experience and the simple act of sharing personal experience, however off the wall, in how we as individuals have gotten through difficult times. That's it. End of. Medical advise or posts better suited to humanities or medical/science forums have little place here.


OP You are an individual, with an individual past, an individual process that got you to here, yes even an individual genetic legacy that may underly this.

Through all of this realise that regardless you are an individual. You are not just a set of symptoms or genes or standardised outcomes and you have a future that is in your hands to mould.

Never stop seeking the answer that may work for you. If the therapies so far explored haven't worked, look at others, keep looking until you find it. If you keep looking, the chances of finding it, whatever "it" is are high. I wish you the best of luck in your journey.

surhythms

Hi There

having had alot of experience with eating disorders the best thing you can possibly do is : see a psychotherapist, see a nutritionist and also see your doctor !! Bodywhys is a fantastic website and they do online support groups for people with eating disorders. Believe me you are not alone !!!!

Anything you want to ask PM me

econ08

Juicyunreg wrote: »

i've considered going in to residential care although that option is not for me

Residential care may be the best option you have. I thnk you'll find psychiatric hospital is not some awful place but is actually very calm, clean, and the nursing staff will be very supportive.

Wibbs wrote:

Of course. "Facts" are fine but it's how you interpret such facts. Genetics are but a part of the puzzle. It would be not unlike saying that just because you come from a family of say engineers, then you will be one. Yes the genetic legacy of having skills that may be pertinent to engineering may be there, it does not make you one by default. Even if you decided to go in that direction you may be a crap one. There are clearly also environmental components. Tendencies may be there, but they have to be triggered.

If this wasn't the case then rates of depression and many other mental illnesses would be consistent among all classes and populations, They're simply not. Unskilled labourers have far higher(up to and more than twice as high) rates of depression than skilled workers and upper management types have even less. Hunter gatherer populations have almost none(and they have lives full of stressful triggers). The Amish and other groups of that ilk the same. What makes them more immune to these illnesses?

http://www.behsci.sote.hu/psycho.htm
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...0dc8c7bab13069
http://bjp.rcpsych.org/cgi/content/abstract/178/40/s84
http://www.ocregister.com/ocregister...le_1593756.php

Another comparison which bears some validity is type 2 diabetes. There appears to be a genetic component to that too, yet many populations, many among those mentioned before have little or no incidences of the disease by comparison.

I think that is why Moss mentioned adoption studies where twins were separated at birth. The studies show the same results. Also he didn't say mood swings were 100% genetic, instead he said they had been found to be 70% genetic. Usually there has to be some environmental trigger. Unfortunately, with bipolar disorder, once the genetic mechanism kicks in due to whatever environmental stress and a person experiences their first mood swing, from that point on no environmental stress is necessary for further mood swings. Therefore it is primarily a genetic illness that can be triggered by environmental factors, in the same way as diabetes is largely genetic but can be triggered by diet. Once someone develops a major mood disorder you cannot talk them out or cure them by removing environomental stress.

1) If you read the conclusion of the first study you gave a link for:
"Therefore the interrelationships of socioeconomic factors, depression and general morbidity rate (working absenteeism) among men have special importance. The severity of depressive symptomatology has had a direct negative connection with social class as measured by working activity. These results are in good agreement with the literature (1,3,26). The item analysis of depressive symptomatology has special significance, showing higher level of hopelessness in the lower social strata that can be an important background factor of higher susceptibility of illnesses. All of the measured socioeconomic factors with the exception of place of residence were in close direct connection with higher depressive symptomatology and according to the hierarchical log linear analysis depression mediates between socioeconomic factors and higher morbidity rate reflected in higher working absent rate in more disadvantageous groups. The material socioeconomic characteristics first of all accessibility to car, housing conditions, and own property were not at all connected directly to morbidity, that is absent rate, only mediated by higher depression symptomatology in persons with no car, living in houses without comfort and having no own summer residence. This connection might be two sided. It might be, that persons with lasting mood disorders are both more susceptible to different kinds of disorders, and parallely they are less able to improve their social conditions. An other explanation might be that relatively deprived persons living among undesirable social conditions (such as without car, without comfort) might suffer from constant relative deprivation (12,26,27), might sense helplessness and constant loss of control over their own situation which in long run might result in depressive symptoms. They might regard the future as hopeless - as we found according to the item analysis, they might blame themselves for their low achievements."

In other words the authors do not make a definite judgement on the causality. It could be that people who are depressed achieve less in life and are "less able to improve their social conditions". Or it is possible that social deprivation is an environmental trigger for depression. Either way none of this undermines the biological and genetic basis for depression. As I said above like many other physical illnesses, it arises from the interaction of genetics and environment.

2) The second study you gave a link for measures social class against self reported health status. Its not related to psyciatric illness specifically. Its hardly suprising that people from a lower social class report poorer health.

3) The third link you posted shows that there is evidence for an effect of parental socio economic status on offspring depression (social causation) but not for an effect of either parental or offspring depression on offspring socio enconomic status (social selection). Again there is nothing shocking about this.

4) The fourth link was an article on a psychologist who believes we should go back to a stone age way of life to stave off depression. He claims that he has treated 31 adults successfully. This sample is so small that if a drug company were to use this as a basis for promoting a product there would be outrage. Nor does this psychologist say his trials were placebo tested.

We don't know why the Amish have lower rates of depression, but it may well be due to genetics.

Wibbs wrote:

And neither are you or me or anyone else. You have an opinion/approach like anyone else here and that's cool too, but that's all it is, an opinion. Without a direct insight into the OP's life, past present and potential future, we're all stabbing in the dark. The most we can hop to do in a forum like this is to share experience and the simple act of sharing personal experience, however off the wall, in how we as individuals have gotten through difficult times. That's it. End of. Medical advise or posts better suited to humanities or medical/science forums have little place here.

I don't think Moss is giving medical advice when he says contact a doctor. Thats advice to get medical advice. Also I think the "facts" are still relevant when you are giving advice to someone about how to cope with psychiatric illness.

MysticalSoul

Actually, I think giving "facts", is taking away from the original posters message here.

Moss seems to be coming across as giving medical advice, which is not the aim of these boards, as well as trying to knock anything else that was said.

Giving "facts" can be overwhelming when someone is already vulnerable, so can we ask that no more so-called "facts" be quoted in this thread.

If "facts" are to be quoted, they belong in the psychology section IMHO.

When people post here I doubt very much they are looking for "facts", but moral support.

econ08

irishamethyst wrote: »

Actually, I think giving "facts", is taking away from the original posters message here.

Moss seems to be coming across as giving medical advice, which is not the aim of these boards, as well as trying to knock anything else that was said.

Giving "facts" can be overwhelming when someone is already vulnerable, so can we ask that no more so-called "facts" be quoted in this thread.

If "facts" are to be quoted, they belong in the psychology section IMHO.

When people post here I doubt very much they are looking for "facts", but moral support.

1) Its not medical advice to tell someone to get medical advice.

2) You got into a debate with Moss about the genetic basis for mental illness. I backed him up and you clearly lost. Now you're saying facts aren't relevant.

3) You can give someone with a psychiatric illness who comes on boards all the sympathy and moral support in the world. However, without proper medical treatment they are unlikely to recover. Posters on boards have an ethical obligation to say this.

LegacyUser

econ08 wrote: »

Residential care may be the best option you have. I thnk you'll find psychiatric hospital is not some awful place but is actually very calm, clean, and the nursing staff will be very supportive.

I know, I've been very close to admission however the only good thing in my life is my job, I work in an industry that is very ahrd to break in to and have a job that hundreds would kill for, if I was to go in to residential care I would be throwing that away and I know that my health is far more important than any job but I have obsessively pursued this job for about 4 years - even if I did get better when I came out of hospital I would have lost it and I can't imagine how horrible that would be

econ08

Juicyunreg wrote: »

I know, I've been very close to admission however the only good thing in my life is my job, I work in an industry that is very ahrd to break in to and have a job that hundreds would kill for, if I was to go in to residential care I would be throwing that away and I know that my health is far more important than any job but I have obsessively pursued this job for about 4 years - even if I did get better when I came out of hospital I would have lost it and I can't imagine how horrible that would be

Thats totally understandable. I was in the same position myself. My job was by far the best thing I had and I was terrified of losing it. While I was in hospital I was really anxious to get back to it. I sent in a doctors cert for Glandular Fever. I was suprised to find how supportive my employers were. They sent me a hamper and a get well soon card. Once I came back to work it was soon all forgotten about.

Anyone is entitled to be sick. Seriously. There is no way any employer can fire you if you have a doctors cert for illness. I know you think it might damage your career but people forget pretty fast. You don't have to let anyone know what your illness is, your GP will put down some excuse. Glandular fever is a good one because it can take a few months to recover from.

In the long run you will do much better in your job if you are well. Take the time out for yourself and get better. Not only do you deserve this for yourself but you really can't go on living any other way. Its just something you have to do.

St. John of God Hospital in Stillorgan has an excellent dedicated eating disorder programme. I'm pretty sure the full programme is three months long. Do you have health insurance? Have you ever seen a psychiatrist?

LegacyUser

I would be replaced, I don't want to say what my job is but taking that amount of time out wouldn't be feasible.

econ08

You don't have to say what your job is. An employer could replace you while you are sick, but they would have to give you your job back on your return. That is if your employer is legally registered and you are paying tax, which I presume you are. If an employer was to fire you for being sick any solicitor would take a big lump of money off them.

Could you even take a month off? I know you might think your job is the most important thing right now, but you can't realistically continue to work and live with untreated bulimia.

Do you have health insurance? Have you ever seen a psychiatrist? You could see a psychiatrist as an outpatient.

I am presuming you live in Dublin, let me know if I'm wrong. Here is the number for St. John of God Hospital: 01 277 1400. If you ring and ask to be put through to the 'Dublin County Stress Clinic' you can make an appointment to see a psychiatrist as an outpatient. You could ask for the name of a female psychiatrist if you would prefer that. Then you can make an appointment. Before your appointment date comes up you will have to get a letter of referal from a GP.

I'm afraid I know of no better help available in Ireland. I'm sure there are plenty of psychiatrists around the country who can treat this, but the quality of care at St John of God Hospital is considered among the best in Europe. Also if (God forbid) you don't recover as an outpatient the three month live-in eating disorder programme is there for you.