See Any Checkpoints Around At The Weekend???

abcxyz123

Did alot of driving at the weekendy, down to the 7's, Douglas for a night.....and i was driving like i normally do, not very fast but over the limit none the less and i only realised it was the bank holiday weekend and remembered that there is supposed to be a large garda presence this weekend!! but didnt see any! except the lads on the horses in Kinsale! Any1 see any on the link, from Ballincollig to Douglas??

invincibleirish

Yes, At the Viaduct on Friday night, Belgooly on Sunday, heard of a few around they city also.

No i havent been drinking Garda

Presence on the link would be the usual Traffic Corps & unmarked cars. (blue/navy Vectra methinks)

AFC_1903

Yeah, next to St Finnbarrs Cathedral on Sun night - the only time I was in the city this weekend... Saw tonnes o guardai out, passed 10 between Gillabbey St (city end) and Oliver Plunkett St

Judes

ABC you were lucky you weren't caught, lucky you weren't in an accident and lucky you didn't injure or kill anyone else. Please remember others whilst driving -we all like to enjoy ourselves but if you insist on drinking more than you are legally entitled too - then please do not drive. How could you be so irresponsible. I feel that your thread was almost a "brag" that there were no gardai out there. I won't apologise for sounding harsh, I am angry there were no gardai on the road to catch you out, it may have taught you a valuable lesson.

DannyBuoy

Didn't see much in the way of checkpoints, did over 400 miles over weekend, but what I did see was an unmarked navy mondeo, with blacked out windows and no aerials. Generally the aerials are a dead giveaway but not this one, it had the strobe on the dash as normal. Was being driven by 2 uniformed lads, looks like the days for checking for aerials are over...

gramlab

Pulled in between Carrigtohill and Little Island yesterday. Guard just leaned on passenger window and showed me me the gun reading 130. Never thought I was doing that but I wasn't going to argue it. After a bit of a chat he let me off - the relief. No idea why.

Coming into Tivoli there were 2 guards with a gun each at the usual spot. I was on a go slow after the stop and the traffic was backed up to the 60 sign so you knew they were up there but still people came flying up the outside and were pulled.

Cue smug expression on my face;)

deRanged

gramlab you were lucky out. that stretch of road is a real favourite for speed traps, usually on the down ramps so you can't see them.

I only saw the one speed trap, on the road out of Cobh sunday morning.

OrangeDaisy

Didn't come across any checkpoints at all which was really unusual as I live near tivoli and there's usually loads of guards there

abcxyz123

Judes wrote: »

ABC you were lucky you weren't caught, lucky you weren't in an accident and lucky you didn't injure or kill anyone else. Please remember others whilst driving -we all like to enjoy ourselves but if you insist on drinking more than you are legally entitled too - then please do not drive. How could you be so irresponsible. I feel that your thread was almost a "brag" that there were no gardai out there. I won't apologise for sounding harsh, I am angry there were no gardai on the road to catch you out, it may have taught you a valuable lesson.

what the hell are you on about??? i never said anything about drink driving and i would never do it. When i mentioned over the limit, I ment doing 110km/hr on the link instead of 100km/hr. Hence why i said 'Not Very Fast.....but over the limit'.......i thought it would be quite obvious i was talking about the SPEED limit.

Heisenberg.

This post has been deleted.

Gauge

Didn't come across any, unusual as normally the gardaí love setting up checkpoints outside my house.

Judes

ABC - I apologise profusely. Yes, I did read it as over-the limit drink vs over-the limit driving. I was so wrong and in this case am very happy to admit I was at fault.

But on another note - SPEED kills too, even 10km over the speed limit could make a difference, if something ran out infront of you whilst driving, a branch falls - well, think about it. Over the speed limit, is still over the speed limit and can lose you points.

Again my apologies for misreading your thread.

shnaek

Judes wrote: »

But on another note - SPEED kills too, even 10km over the speed limit could make a difference, if something ran out infront of you whilst driving, a branch falls - well, think about it. Over the speed limit, is still over the speed limit and can lose you points.

Do you think the speed limit is set for safety though? When you see the Fermoy bypass opened, and the speed limit on a stretch of fantastic road which used to be the main Cork Fermoy road being dropped by 10mph (this sort of thing is happening anywhere there's a toll motorway being opened) then it looks more to me like tax collecting is the aim of the limit, rather than safety.

I only mention this because you mention 10km over the speed limit, rather than driving at a safe speed. Personally I think there is a difference between the two. Sometimes the limit is too high, and we should drive slower regardless. But sometimes, as in the case I outlined above, the speed limit is set in order to force people to pay higher taxes.

Delphi91

shnaek wrote: »

...But sometimes, as in the case I outlined above, the speed limit is set in order to force people to pay higher taxes.

ok, maybe I'm missing something here, but how can setting a speed limit force people to pay higher taxes???

DannyBuoy

Delphi91 wrote: »

ok, maybe I'm missing something here, but how can setting a speed limit force people to pay higher taxes???

I think he means indirectly, ie, lower the speed limit below what it used to be on the old Fermoy road and haunt the place with speed traps or semi-bully them into using the bypass and catch them for money there.

craichoe

Judes wrote: »

ABC - I apologise profusely. Yes, I did read it as over-the limit drink vs over-the limit driving. I was so wrong and in this case am very happy to admit I was at fault.

But on another note - SPEED kills too, even 10km over the speed limit could make a difference, if something ran out infront of you whilst driving, a branch falls - well, think about it. Over the speed limit, is still over the speed limit and can lose you points.

Again my apologies for misreading your thread.

If you were doing 100 kp/h and someone ran out in front of you .. or a branch fell you'd still hit it. (actually if his speedo was reading 110kp/h he was probably only doing 100 kp/h as speedos overread by 10%.

The unexpected happens, the speed limit is there as a form of tax collection and for muppets.

Speed doesn't kill, sure last thursday i was doing 180kp/h most of the way to Dusseldorf and alot of the Autobahn was of lesser quality than the ballincollig bypass.

Dimitri

Over the bank holiday weekend i saw a checkpoint set up for all of 15 minutes in cobh and another on the way out of cobh. Saw one the following day on the crosshaven road and i was told there was one in ballygarven.

**RANT**
Speed traps and speed limits are a revenue building exercises that have absolutely no bearing on road safety. Carrigaline crosshaven road is a prime exampl, after they resurfaced the road initially outside carrigaline they extended the 50km zone and put in a 60km zone further out again. Recently they extended the 50 km out to wher the 60 is and brought the 60 the best part of a mile further out, right out to where the good road surface ends. Bearing in mind that only a short portion of the 50 covers a built up area or an area that will soon be built up in the future, the rest of the 50 and all the 60km are on open road, newly resurfaced clearly lined and only two junctions 1 is a very open junction with an industrial estate and one is into a small carpark for the walkway along the river. Road safety my arse.
**End Rant**
Apologies for that.

Judes

craichoe wrote: »

If you were doing 100 kp/h and someone ran out in front of you .. or a branch fell you'd still hit it. (actually if his speedo was reading 110kp/h he was probably only doing 100 kp/h as speedos overread by 10%.

The unexpected happens, the speed limit is there as a form of tax collection and for muppets.

Speed doesn't kill, sure last thursday i was doing 180kp/h most of the way to Dusseldorf and alot of the Autobahn was of lesser quality than the ballincollig bypass.

Well I'm happy to be a "muppet" if it saves my life and others - this tax collection lark is getting beyond a joke! May I suggest you enter any A&E ward any night of the week and view exactly what speed can do - seeing as though you quote "it doesn't kill" . I just can't believe how stupid some people are when it comes to flaunting the law. Judes

Delphi91

craichoe wrote: »

...The unexpected happens, the speed limit is there as a form of tax collection and for muppets...

So, that would suggest that anyone who drives at or under the relevant speed limit is a muppet??? Interesting insult to those of us who follow the rules.

I agree that some of the speed limits are silly and placed in totally inappropriate places. But that doesn't mean that they should be broken.

Speed doesn't kill, sure last thursday i was doing 180kp/h most of the way to Dusseldorf and alot of the Autobahn was of lesser quality than the ballincollig bypass.

Did you notice anything about the stretch of Autobahn that you drove on??? They're DESIGNED for that speed. That's the reason why there isn't a speed limit on chunks of the autobahn. The road surface may not be great (mostly concrete if I remember correctly) but the curves on it are long and smooth and can be taken at high speed.

TO be honest, I'm getting sick and tired of this whole "tax" thing. If you don't want to pay the tax, just follow the speed limit. If you do want to break the speed limit, remember that you're not the only one on the road.

MCMLXXXIII

Delphi91 wrote: »

...
Did you notice anything about the stretch of Autobahn that you drove on??? They're DESIGNED for that speed. That's the reason why there isn't a speed limit on chunks of the autobahn. The road surface may not be great (mostly concrete if I remember correctly) but the curves on it are long and smooth and can be taken at high speed.

I disagree. They might have been made for it 60+ years ago when they were built, but cars did not go as fast as they do now. The road surfaces are not great. I found some curves quite sharp and dangerous (through the mountains), and the rest of the road is too straight. Straight roads have proved to mesmerise the driver and straightaways also make it much easier to fall asleep while driving.

The emergency services are great, but I would much rather not get into a wreck, instead of getting one with a helecopter standing by to take me to emergency.

Point: since there was no speed in mind when the autobahn was built, there is technically no safe speed that can be claimed by the builder (German government).

Delphi91 wrote: »

TO be honest, I'm getting sick and tired of this whole "tax" thing. If you don't want to pay the tax, just follow the speed limit. If you do want to break the speed limit, remember that you're not the only one on the road.

Uh, if I speed, I will pay a fine. A tax? No way. I think a tax is for everyone to pay to the government in return for services. A fine is to be paid when you do something wrong. If I pay extra taxes, I expect extra services. I don't think the government should try to make income from fines. They can't depend on it. If this is going to be a tax that the government depends on for money, and everyone did as the government said and stopped speeding, the government would lose income and have an even larger problem on their hands - financing the nation.

Judes wrote: »

Well I'm happy to be a "muppet" if it saves my life and others - this tax collection lark is getting beyond a joke! May I suggest you enter any A&E ward any night of the week and view exactly what speed can do - seeing as though you quote "it doesn't kill" . I just can't believe how stupid some people are when it comes to flaunting the law. Judes

Speed doesn't kill, bad drivers do. And by bad, I don't mean people that speed - I mean people that don't pay attention to the road or surroundings. I know that many governments put out promotions that say speed kills, but it's just easier to slow people down rather than to educate them for road driving. Also, if people only had to pay for accidents, there wouldn't be too much money coming in. Instead, we pay for going faster, which is much more lucritave and easy to catch. If I hit a brick wall going 60mph, I'm probably dead...so don't limit me (especially on motorways). If I'm going to die anyway, I might as well get to my destination faster.

Regarding others on the road? I'm not stupid. I can slow down when I see heavier traffic. I know that putting others in danger also puts me in danger, and I don't want either.

Delphi91

MCMLXXXIII wrote: »

...Uh, if I speed, I will pay a fine. A tax? No way...

I wasn't the one who mentioned paying a tax. If you read the other posts you will see that. I don't agree that it's a tax - it's a fine.

...If I hit a brick wall going 60mph, I'm probably dead...so don't limit me (especially on motorways). If I'm going to die anyway, I might as well get to my destination faster...

But if you're going to die anyway, then the chances are that your destination is going to be the great autobahn in the sky! Do you want to get there faster?

MCMLXXXIII

Delphi91 wrote: »

I wasn't the one who mentioned paying a tax. If you read the other posts you will see that. I don't agree that it's a tax - it's a fine.

I knew what I wanted to say, and once I looked back it wasn't clear.

I agree with you (for the first point) that it is a fine, and should be called a fine. I just think that for some reason they called it a tax because they want to scare more people into thinking it was something much more permenant...and it's irritating knowing it came from the government.

Delphi91 wrote: »

But if you're going to die anyway, then the chances are that your destination is going to be the great autobahn in the sky! Do you want to get there faster?

I know, but I don't plan on dying. I don't go as fast if there are more cars, and I don't switch lanes every five seconds when traffic is backed up. It's a different story when the road is open though. I hope to stay alive, but that doesn't mean that others will hit me...or even that a meteor will come down and strike me anyway. Sometimes you just need to roll with it.

shnaek

I think all this cracking down on drivers is going to backfire. The bringing in of privately operated speed cameras will make criminals out of a lot of decent people. It lowers respect and admiration for the Gardai.

Cynical exercises like dropping the speed limit from 100 to 80 on the Fermoy road only help to frustrate the public. If the government were really serious about speed, then why not abandon the fine altogether? Are the points not enough of a deterrent?

The reality is that we have a hell of a lot of drivers out there who have never passed a test - be they older people who got the 'exemption' back in the 70's, or younger people on L-plates. Sorting out this real problem costs money. Surfacing our roads (is there a town in Ireland with a decent road surface, or has every town in this country got to have trenches and potholes etc all over the bloody place) costs money. Look at the state of our main routes - the stretch of road near Ballinasloe on the Galway-Dublin road, and between Abbeylix and Portloaise on the Cork-Dublin road to name but two - they are a bloody embarrassment. And then the government turn around and blame the people? Yes there is such a thing as personal responsibility. But there is also government responsibility which is drowned out by people talking from the pulpit of the high moral ground.

Dimitri

Cynical exercises like dropping the speed limit from 100 to 80 on the Fermoy road only help to frustrate the public. If the government were really serious about speed, then why not abandon the fine altogether? Are the points not enough of a deterrent?

There comes a point when a punishment becomes over the top, resulting in people just accepting it and largely ignoring it. I feel this has already happened with speed, whenever someone mentions they were caught speeding it is usually met with sympathy/empathy rather than being socially unacceptable. Certainly from my own experiences when anyone i've ever known has been caught drink driving they have been ashamed to say it, knowing that others would think less of them. This is not the case for speed most peoples response is "those bast*rds where were they hiding this time?"

Delphi91

Dimitri wrote: »

...This is not the case for speed most peoples response is "those bast*rds where were they hiding this time?"

Gotta say, I agree with this one.

Ok, I know and accept that there are silly speed limits on various sections of roads in this country - there's a 100KPH sign about 100 meters before a roundabout on the way out of Shannon Airport, there's a stretch of road (VERY twisty) between Buttevant and Newtwopothouse which also has a speed limit of 100KPH on it - you'd be lucky to manage 80kph on that stretch.

But the fact is, until those speed limits are adjusted, they are the speed limits for those stretches of road. It always amazes me when drivers complain that they were driving over the limit (and they'll always admit it), got caught and ended up with a fine or points or both. What do you expect to happen when you break the law??????

I live on a country road where there's a 60 KPH limit for around 2 km - my home is included in this section. I'd estimate that an average of 50-75% of driver don't obey it. And I betcha each one would complain if they were caught speeding on that stretch.

shnaek

Delphi91 wrote: »

I live on a country road where there's a 60 KPH limit for around 2 km - my home is included in this section. I'd estimate that an average of 50-75% of driver don't obey it. And I betcha each one would complain if they were caught speeding on that stretch.

And I would complain if I was done for 85 on the 80 section between Cork and Fermoy, and I would have a legitimate complaint to make! It's a wide 3 lane road, that was 100 until a new Toll road opened. It makes a mockery of the law, and that sort of carry on only serves to lessen ones respect for the law.

craichoe

Delphi91 wrote: »

So, that would suggest that anyone who drives at or under the relevant speed limit is a muppet??? Interesting insult to those of us who follow the rules.

I agree that some of the speed limits are silly and placed in totally inappropriate places. But that doesn't mean that they should be broken.



Did you notice anything about the stretch of Autobahn that you drove on??? They're DESIGNED for that speed. That's the reason why there isn't a speed limit on chunks of the autobahn. The road surface may not be great (mostly concrete if I remember correctly) but the curves on it are long and smooth and can be taken at high speed.

TO be honest, I'm getting sick and tired of this whole "tax" thing. If you don't want to pay the tax, just follow the speed limit. If you do want to break the speed limit, remember that you're not the only one on the road.

The Autobahn was orginally designed for landing planes on in the event that the airports were bombed during WWII.

As said previously, if his clock said 110kp/h then he was more than likely doing the legal limit. Come on .. 80 kp/h on a crap backroad..

Give me a break, speed doesnt kill, the idiot behind the steering wheel does.

Oh .. and @ Judes

I've seen the wards, especially the motorcycle accident victims... bloody horrific, but either happened by freak accident or from car drivers not looking where they were going.

Delphi91

craichoe wrote: »

...Give me a break, speed doesnt kill, the idiot behind the steering wheel does...

The problem here is that the idiot behind the wheel is invariably speeding.

I had it happen to me coming up from Cork only this morning. On the Limerick side of Buttevant, there's a twisty section of road that has a solid white line. I was in a line of traffic, all travelling along at the relevant speed. In her rush to get past us all, a female driver in a D reg large Audi pulled right up behind me and then with about 250m to go before a blind bend, she took off and passed 2-3 cars. If she'd left it for another 3-4 seconds before making her move, the car which was coming around the bend (which she couldn't see) would have run in her and caused a major accident probably involving all the rest of us also.

Yes, the IS stupidity on the road, loads of it, and nine times out of ten it manifests itself as drivers speeding and taking risks that put other road users in danger.

As for the toll road speed limit, well, unfortunately until it's changed thats the speed limit for that section.

I'm also interested in the comment about speedometers not being accurate. Is this an urban myth or its there factual eveidence for it????

shnaek

Delphi91 wrote: »

As for the toll road speed limit, well, unfortunately until it's changed thats the speed limit for that section.

Indeed, so we must obey it but we cannot respect it. And we should be able to respect all our laws.

Delphi91 wrote: »

I'm also interested in the comment about speedometers not being accurate. Is this an urban myth or its there factual eveidence for it????

I believe there's a 10% margin alright with speedometers. I have heard this from Gardai, but I have seen no written evidence of it.

Dimitri

Yes, the IS stupidity on the road, loads of it, and nine times out of ten it manifests itself as drivers speeding and taking risks that put other road users in danger.

from what you are saying this driver who i agree took a stupid risk, but how fast were you going? for example if you were going 80km/ph and she accelerated to 110 to overtake than ya thats pretty stupid and deserves punishment, but if i drive a car and accelerate to 140 on the south ring than i'm far less of a risk than she was. Yes i'm aware that a crash at that speed would almost mean certain death however the crash is far less likely to happen than the people who do their legal 80kmph outside my house(its a country lane with lots of very slow moving farm machinery but that doesn't seem to bother my neighbours in a hurry) it is that inconsistency that makes people say its not speed it is stupidity and they are quite correct. To blame speed is nothing more than a blatent attempt by the authorities to not be held responsible for offering proper education and testing to drivers and to justify revenue building exercises which have absolutely nothing to do with road safety. If speed was a such a bad killer there is a very simple solution, place highly visible patrol cars on the relevant section and have them drive up and down it at a sfe speed. Alternatively when setting speed traps make them visible, nothing slows traffis down faster than the sight of one or two patrol cars parked up on a visible stretch of road with lights flashing and a big sign saying speed checking! However instead they hide in bushes issueing fines months months later so the effet of being caught, which is only a short term concern for most, is never achieved and instead is met with disdain, who is slowed down by these measures?
I also firmly believe "speed" is attributed to many accidents when in reality the driver was to blame. Speed is blamed if the accident could've been avoided if the driver was going slower, however that would count for almost all accidents that didn't occur in a stop go situation as the driver wouldn't have been at that point at the time it was a risk. What is never assesed is if the driver was replaced by someone else driving at the same speed would the crash have occured?

Delphi91

Dimitri wrote: »

from what you are saying this driver who i agree took a stupid risk, but how fast were you going? for example if you were going 80km/ph and she accelerated to 110 to overtake than ya thats pretty stupid and deserves punishment, but if i drive a car and accelerate to 140 on the south ring than i'm far less of a risk than she was....

Far less of a risk to who???? If you accelerate to 140kph to pass someone out and end up running into someone else who did the same, your speed relative to theirs at the time of collision is 280kph - not sure that is entirely "risk free"! And the same is true for the other driver - you'd hit them at a relative speed of 280kph.

Chances are this morning that I was doing around 80kph, so given the speed at which she passed, she was doing at least 90kph and probably 100kph given that she vanished into the distance fairly quickly. Totally stupid driving and entirely selfish - no consideration for anyone else on the road.

Dimitri

Far less risk for anyone, a dual carrigeway by default means your not going to have a head on collision, as for running into the back of someone you have far more distance and space to react to some clown pulling out into the fast lane without having accelerated to an appropriate speed and belive me people do it on a regular basis which explains the high level of undertaking one can witness on any dual carrigeway or motorway in the country. Undertaking is incredably dangerous for a number of reasons but i never blame the undertaker, rather i level blame squarely at the person who is driving slow in the fast lane, it is their duty as a motorist to be aware as they drive and awareness means that if a car is fast approaching behind them they ought to move aside and let them pass, as far as i'm concerned if we could stamp out such bad driving habits than we would have far fewer crashes.

With regards to the latter part of your post i agree totally stupid but not because of the speed she was driving, in other conditions/traffic/surface/type of road that speed would have been perfectly acceptable, to attribute that to speed would be a cop out if we really want to address road safety issues we at least have to be honest with the facts. Speed doesn't kill, speed traps and penalty points don't save lives, nor do ridiculously placed speed control zones.

The only way we can address the problems on Irish roads is by first weeding out all the terrible drivers off our roads the new measures coming in in June are a start but they do not go far enough, people should have to pass regular refresher courses in driving. I drive a forklift an i have to do a refresher course every two years to keep my licence in date, yet pass your driving test once and away ya go. Secondly we need to get serious about investing in our road infrastructure, putting in place proper surfacing as opposed to tar and chip, we also need to build corners on our the roads properly, how often have you been driving within the speed limit entered a slight bend with which you shouldn't have to adjust your speed only to find the car pull away? - corner designed badly. These factors at play are the real killers on Irish roads, but its a lot easier to blame speed put cameras in place and cash in.

invincibleirish

Irish drivers are addicted to stupid, lazy ill thought out overtaking.

Judes

craichoe wrote: »

The Autobahn was orginally designed for landing planes on in the event that the airports were bombed during WWII.

As said previously, if his clock said 110kp/h then he was more than likely doing the legal limit. Come on .. 80 kp/h on a crap backroad..

Give me a break, speed doesnt kill, the idiot behind the steering wheel does.

Oh .. and @ Judes

I've seen the wards, especially the motorcycle accident victims... bloody horrific, but either happened by freak accident or from car drivers not looking where they were going.

I wasn't going to bother replying or adding anymore to this thread as I am shocked by some of the nonsense I'm reading- but there are some really "cocky" drivers out there who seem to think they are driving in a parallel universe where nothing bad will ever happen to them if they go fast - as speed doesn't kill! Fine! Stay there on your little planet - just keep off the Irish roads, as I don't want you driving anywhere near me!!!

Delphi91

Dimitri wrote: »

Far less risk for anyone, a dual carrigeway by default means your not going to have a head on collision, as for running into the back of someone you have far more distance and space to react to some clown pulling out into the fast lane without having accelerated to an appropriate speed and belive me people do it on a regular basis which explains the high level of undertaking one can witness on any dual carrigeway or motorway in the country....

Two points:

1. Forget about having enough distance and space on a dual carriageway. That's the theory. In Ireland we seem to have this talent for driving up the arse of the car in front of us, irrespective of the road conditions or space available. How many cars have you seen on a typical dual carriageway, e.g. the Ring Road at rush hour that leave the relevant distance between each other?? Based on an average reaction time of 0.7 seconds, a car driving at 100kmph will have travelled almost 19.5 m before they realise that something has happened. Add to that the time it takes to hit the brakes, and wait for the car to stop. I have hardly EVER seen cars drive far enough apart on our roads to allow for that. And that's assuming that they drive at 100k.

2. Undertaking is HIGHLY dangerous. I've been undertaken on a number of occasions by (and I'm sorry if I upset anyone here) Eastern European cars who seem to do whatever they want on our roads secure in the knowledge that they can't be touched. And I wasn't traveling slowly at the time, I was doing the speed limit and I refused to pull into the safe margin on the side of the road (illegal to drive there). I called the cops to complain one car on its way towards Mallow on a day when you couldn't see 50 meters beyond the car with rain. I was told they'd put a traffic car out to stop the car (he also undertook a lorry ahead of me) but as soon as I mentioned it was an Eastern European car, all I got was an "Oh...." and I knew then it was a waste of time.

And I don't necessarily agree that a car travelling at the speed limit should have to move out of the way to let a boy racer or some other speed freak pass them by. That's a form of bullying behaviour on the roads.

The only way we can address the problems on Irish roads is by first weeding out all the terrible drivers off our roads the new measures coming in in June are a start but they do not go far enough, people should have to pass regular refresher courses in driving...

I agree totally, but it will never happen.

shnaek

Delphi91 wrote: »

2. Undertaking is HIGHLY dangerous. I've been undertaken on a number of occasions by (and I'm sorry if I upset anyone here) Eastern European cars who seem to do whatever they want on our roads secure in the knowledge that they can't be touched. And I wasn't traveling slowly at the time, I was doing the speed limit and I refused to pull into the safe margin on the side of the road (illegal to drive there). I called the cops to complain one car on its way towards Mallow on a day when you couldn't see 50 meters beyond the car with rain. I was told they'd put a traffic car out to stop the car (he also undertook a lorry ahead of me) but as soon as I mentioned it was an Eastern European car, all I got was an "Oh...." and I knew then it was a waste of time.

I think he was speaking of undertaking on a motorway or dual carraigeway. Nobody could condone undertaking on a two lane road. Insane.

But as far as dual carraigeway or motorways are concerned, the outside lane is an overtaking lane. Full stop. Check the rules of the road. Unless you are overtaking you have no business in the outside lane. To argue otherwise is to argue against the rules of the road, and is therefor at best irresponsible and at maybe even wreckless.

shnaek

Delphi91 wrote: »

And I don't necessarily agree that a car travelling at the speed limit should have to move out of the way to let a boy racer or some other speed freak pass them by. That's a form of bullying behaviour on the roads.

Do you believe a car NOT travelling at the speed limit should move over to let other cars pass?
I was considering this point as I drove the long drive from Dublin to Cork on Sunday. Ahead of me was a stream of about 20-25 cars stuck behind a jeep with a horsebox going at 40mph.
I believe in France and other European countries there is an enforced law (good manners in my opinion) where if there are 5 cars queuing behind you and you are not driving at the speed limit, then you must pull over and let them pass or else face penalties under law.

Delphi91

shnaek wrote: »

...But as far as dual carraigeway or motorways are concerned, the outside lane is an overtaking lane. Full stop. Check the rules of the road. Unless you are overtaking you have no business in the outside lane. To argue otherwise is to argue against the rules of the road, and is therefor at best irresponsible and at maybe even wreckless.

I wasn't referring to a dual carriageway. In fact the stretch of road in question occurs just at the end of the dual carriageway out of Cork as you pass the Blarney Business Park - it's a two-lane section.

Do you believe a car NOT travelling at the speed limit should move over to let other cars pass?
I was considering this point as I drove the long drive from Dublin to Cork on Sunday. Ahead of me was a stream of about 20-25 cars stuck behind a jeep with a horsebox going at 40mph.
I believe in France and other European countries there is an enforced law (good manners in my opinion) where if there are 5 cars queuing behind you and you are not driving at the speed limit, then you must pull over and let them pass or else face penalties under law.

I've no problem with that at all. I've come across it loads of times. The only contradiction here when that occurs is that if a driver moves over into the hard margin to allow others to pass, (s)he's committing an offence as I understand it as you're not allowed to use the hard margin to drive in. Isn't it a points offence??

Dimitri

I've no problem with that at all. I've come across it loads of times. The only contradiction here when that occurs is that if a driver moves over into the hard margin to allow others to pass, (s)he's committing an offence as I understand it as you're not allowed to use the hard margin to drive in. Isn't it a points offence??

A lot of people think this but the law says that you are not allowed to drive in the hard shoulder, you can pull over briefly to allow others to pass though as long as it is safe to so if i recall correctly but i must check it out again.

It is also common courtesy in my opinion regardless of whether the car you are pulling in for is breaking the speed limit or not, we are not the traffic corp is is our duty as motorists to drive safely and courtesely, just because one may think it is discouteous of another motorist to break the limit, this does not give one the right to enforce the limit by refusing to pull over.

Delphi91

Dimitri wrote: »

A lot of people think this but the law says that you are not allowed to drive in the hard shoulder, you can pull over briefly to allow others to pass though as long as it is safe to so if i recall correctly but i must check it out again...

I stand corrected - For a road with a single broken yellow line along the side of the road:

This road contains a hard shoulder, which is normally only for pedestrians and cyclists. If a driver wants to allow a vehicle behind them to overtake, they may pull in to the hard shoulder briefly as long as no pedestrians or cyclists are already using it and no junctions or entrances are nearby. Different rules exist for hard shoulders on motorways.

Just noticed an interesting statement on the www.rulesoftheroad.ie website: It seems that "you must not (their emphasis not mine!) break the speed limit when overtaking"!

craichoe

Judes wrote: »

I wasn't going to bother replying or adding anymore to this thread as I am shocked by some of the nonsense I'm reading- but there are some really "cocky" drivers out there who seem to think they are driving in a parallel universe where nothing bad will ever happen to them if they go fast - as speed doesn't kill! Fine! Stay there on your little planet - just keep off the Irish roads, as I don't want you driving anywhere near me!!!

What are you on about, how exactly does speed kill ? (Besides the powdered shíte people snort up their nostrils)

Did you read my post, the op probably didn't even break the speed limit !

Speed limits in Ireland are completely inappropriate, 80 kp/h speed limits on roads barely wide enough for one car, yet people think its safe because thats the limit. And then someone travels at 1 or 2 kp/h over the limit on a road thats safe at this speed and its automatically dangerous ?

In fareness its 10 times safer driving in Europe, at least they've taken some sort of Driving test and training.

I'll drive wherever i like man, tbh you sound like you've a classic example of brainwashing through RSA ads "SPEED KILLS"

How about "LEARN HOW TO DRIVE.. NOT KNOWING HOW TO FOLLOW THE RULES KILLS PEOPLE"

Besides, you should be watching your speed, but you really should pay attention to the road as well.

Common sense and driver courtesy + knowing and following the rules of the road is alot less deadly that staring at your speedo when going from a 60 into a 50 zone.

shnaek

Delphi91 wrote: »

Just noticed an interesting statement on the www.rulesoftheroad.ie website: It seems that "you must not (their emphasis not mine!) break the speed limit when overtaking"!

Wow - that's a dangerous rule I would have thought! I mean, is there anything more dangerous that someone taking half a year to overtake you? I would have thought a quick overtake (dropping gear) would be the safest option, but I guess I must be wrong!

Judes

Craichoe - accidents happen - it's a phrase we've all grown up with.

It doesn't matter how carefully "YOU" drive or "I" drive - but it depends on how quickly "YOU" react and "I" react when somebody else does something wrong or stupid.

So anything can happen on the road - and if you're breaking the speed limit - when something happens - and there is a pile up or an accident - because several people were BREAKING THE LAW in either they way they drove, or the speed they drove - then you are all equally guilty. A friend of mine, a law abiding citizen and a good driver was stopped at traffic lights last year - and a speeding car with a young male driver, slammed into her, it wrote off her car, it left her in hospital with injuries - luckily in this case speed didn't kill my friend. But it could have. As several witnesses commented, he was going to fast to stop at the traffic lights.

I would never, ever assume I am beyond an accident, or something going wrong, I would never, ever assume I was the most magnificent driver on the road - I would like to think I drive carefully and abide by the rules of the road. Which is the law.

We have LAWS for a reason and I don't agree with every law in this country either - but as an adult I know if I break the law, then I will have to pay the penalty - as I would be committing a crime.

Please stop saying speed doens't kill - the reason hundreds of thousands of euro go onto campaigns with such a slogan is that there is proof that it does.

craichoe

Judes wrote: »

Craichoe - accidents happen - it's a phrase we've all grown up with.

It doesn't matter how carefully "YOU" drive or "I" drive - but it depends on how quickly "YOU" react and "I" react when somebody else does something wrong or stupid.

So anything can happen on the road - and if you're breaking the speed limit - when something happens - and there is a pile up or an accident - because several people were BREAKING THE LAW in either they way they drove, or the speed they drove - then you are all equally guilty. A friend of mine, a law abiding citizen and a good driver was stopped at traffic lights last year - and a speeding car with a young male driver, slammed into her, it wrote off her car, it left her in hospital with injuries - luckily in this case speed didn't kill my friend. But it could have. As several witnesses commented, he was going to fast to stop at the traffic lights.

I would never, ever assume I am beyond an accident, or something going wrong, I would never, ever assume I was the most magnificent driver on the road - I would like to think I drive carefully and abide by the rules of the road. Which is the law.

We have LAWS for a reason and I don't agree with every law in this country either - but as an adult I know if I break the law, then I will have to pay the penalty - as I would be committing a crime.

Please stop saying speed doens't kill - the reason hundreds of thousands of euro go onto campaigns with such a slogan is that there is proof that it does.

**yaaaaaaaaawnnnnnnn** .. you're still completely ignoring that:

A. The OP didn't break the speed limit.
B. Your talking about somebody who is looking where their going vs an idiot who wasnt looking where he was going and crashed into a stationary car ?

To use your example of speed being a factor with regard to pileups, the most recent one was on the M50 and in this case fog was the cause .. does fog kill too ? No, it was idiots driving too fast and not maintaining distance from the cars in front of them, even though they were driving under the speed limit.

Which is more of a danger here ... people driving over the speed limit, or people on the road that have never taken a driving test or had any form of instruction what so ever ?

The government should work on fixing the attitude and stop with the propaganda and flashy phrases .. arive alive, speed kills, belt up. Jesus H, why can't they just educate people in school about this basic stuff and stop trying to make road safety glitzy, when in they should just broach it as common sense.

Delphi91

shnaek wrote: »

Wow - that's a dangerous rule I would have thought! I mean, is there anything more dangerous that someone taking half a year to overtake you? I would have thought a quick overtake (dropping gear) would be the safest option, but I guess I must be wrong!

I remember being behind two trucks coming down from Dublin once, somewhere around the Curragh. One was trying to pass out the other and the inside one was doing whatever it's max speed was. The outside truck couldn't go any faster, so they blocked both lanes for what must have been 2-3 miles!

It's true, it is a silly rule.

Judes

From your previous sentence in reference to the pile up due to fog and you also stated - "NO IT WAS IDIOTS DRIVING TOO FAST....................... " Craichoe - would that not imply SPEED???

And when it comes to watching where you are going - have you ever driven and had a fit of sneezing - I have - and you could be blinded for several seconds. I'm being careful, I'm watching where I'm going but things happen. Yes, I think we've all gone well off track from the original poster - but yawn as much as you like - which reminds me - ever had a great big yawn whilst driving - anything can make you lose concentration for a second or two and that's all it takes!

Dimitri

Craichoe - accidents happen - it's a phrase we've all grown up with.

Incidentially i disagree with this totally, road 'accidents' are caused.
However to reiteriate my earlier point speed doesn't kill. It in itself is not a killer. The example given of the 'young male' who crashed into a stationary car is pure stupidity, clearly they were not paying attention to what was happening around them had the situation been different than there would be no issue with the speed they were driving. This is not merely playing with semantics yes there is very little difference in saying that speed was to blame and the speed of the driver for the given situation was to blame. However there is a major difference in the reaction of the authorities and peoples perception of what is causing accidents. By blaming speed the reaction from authorities is what we have now, inappropriate speed limits and inappropriate policing, not surprisingly there are no statistics available for the number of points issued for speedin in 50/60km zones where drivers were less than 10 km over the limit, i point this out because in many cases people don't realise they are this far over and have natuarlly risen to these speeds because the road conditions etc are inappropriate for the speed control. It is also unsurprising that these stretches of road are being policied heavily, cynical revenue generating.
Reaction of many road users is to drive grossly irresponsibly but within the speed limit and throughly belive they are not responsible for any of the problems on our roads.
Speed does not kill stupidity does, this may well include driving at a speed inappropriate for the given situation/conditions but essentially is as a result of bad driving habits, poor observation, lack of knowledge of the rules of the road and of course plain old fashioned stupidity.
By blaming speed alone or drink alone we are selling ourselves short and regardless of how stronly we belive it it will not make it true and as long as the authorities are allowed to spoon feed us this crap noting will actually change on our roads while at the same time the authorities and government can claim they are acting upon the problem and are taking the best coures of action to solve the problem when in fact they are tackiling nothing and are charging us a hell of a lot in the process.

shnaek

There is an interesting article in the papers this morning saying that accidents have dropped by 60% on roads where the authorities have gotten rid of black spots and done some work on the roads. I must look for the article online so I can reference it here - but it just shows how much the state of our roads contributes to road deaths.

There were other interesting stats there too, but I can't remember them off hand as I just had a breeze through the papers on the stands this morning. I'll post a reference as soon as I find one.

craichoe

Judes wrote: »

From your previous sentence in reference to the pile up due to fog and you also stated - "NO IT WAS IDIOTS DRIVING TOO FAST....................... " Craichoe - would that not imply SPEED???

And when it comes to watching where you are going - have you ever driven and had a fit of sneezing - I have - and you could be blinded for several seconds. I'm being careful, I'm watching where I'm going but things happen. Yes, I think we've all gone well off track from the original poster - but yawn as much as you like - which reminds me - ever had a great big yawn whilst driving - anything can make you lose concentration for a second or two and that's all it takes!

I give up .. your all over the place with your points and choosing to ignore that which doesnt fit into what your saying.

Speed limits are not an indication of how fast you can drive i.e. 80kp/h limit on a road only fit to be driven on at 20 - 30 kp/h

Speed doesn't kill, the person choosing to drive in a certain manner does, its their choice to do that. Guns don't kill, a shovel doesn't kill unless someone chooses to hit you over the head with it.

and again

Your completely ignoring that the op didnt break the speed limit.

Common sense, driver training and courtesy on the road are more important than anything else.

Dimitri

There were other interesting stats there too, but I can't remember them off hand as I just had a breeze through the papers on the stands this morning. I'll post a reference as soon as I find one.

Well i've always felt that the road condiions pay are the largest factor in collisions/deaths on the roads in Ireland. If you notice many deaths occur on roads with uneven surface poor sign posting etc.
One article you won't find however is on the criteria for how are speed limits assigned/extended. Howverer it is important to bear in mind that land bordering an 80km/ph road is much harder to get planning on than a road boredering a 50/60kmph road. It is also important to note that for non national roads the local council stes the speed limit. Now why on earth would counsellors extend a limit for no reason...............?

shnaek

Interesting stats here:

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/most-fatal-crashes-occur-on-singlecarriageway-roads-1381631.html

Including "New motorways and dual carriageways are the safest in the country;" Funny how the Gardai sit on those roads most of the time. Nothing to do with making a few bob I guess.

Good to see some positive news though:

"In 2005 the EuroRAP report found 96km of the network in the Republic was classified as ‘Black – High Risk’, but all those links have now been repaired, and overall the 2008 report finds that there are no ‘High Risk’ sections on the network."