How would you characterise the Irish?

Affable

I know I'm asking for generalisation.

But if you had to describe things that are unique about the Irish, for someone who has not lived in the culture, what would you say?

Xavi6

Fondness for alcomohol is the blatantly obvious one.

someone's bound to say we're begrudgers as well.

Peyton Manning

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyxdZeIwC3k

longshanks

i'd say that we can sometimes live up to some of the stereotypes, just not 24/7. and that we're flawed, but better for those flaws

Rb

Xavi6 wrote: »

Fondness for alcomohol is the blatantly obvious one.

someone's bound to say we're begrudgers as well.

Lol, it was the first thing I thought of when I saw the title and was about to say (re begrudging).

imeddyhobbs

I was in the car with my slovak girlfriend recently driving around lonely roads in wexford,she was driving.
Walkers put their hands up to say hello and drivers also saluted she asked why were they waving and saluting and i said its because we are irish and a friendly race...Am i wrong?

flanum

funnily enough, one time i was walking down the suks in jerusalem arab quarter,the proprieter of a wee shop was giving me all the spiel "you american, english.." etc, when i told him i was irish, his very loud respones was " aah irish... bacon and cabbage....bacon and cabbage"!

imeddyhobbs

flanum wrote: »

funnily enough, one time i was walking down the suks in jerusalem arab quarter,the proprieter of a wee shop was giving me all the spiel "you american, english.." etc, when i told him i was irish, his very loud respones was " aah irish... bacon and cabbage....bacon and cabbage"!

aka tourist clap trap

berliner

Affable wrote: »

I know I'm asking for generalisation.

But if you had to describe things that are unique about the Irish, for someone who has not lived in the culture, what would you say?

Er..this might come as a bit of a shock but there is no culture in Ireland.We let the language die.We all support english teams/watch BBC.Read english newspapers.Makes you wonder why we bothered with the whole independence mularkey.

Affable

berliner wrote: »

We all support english teams/watch BBC.Read english newspapers.

Doesn't mean you don't still have different behaviours to us.

flanum

berliner wrote: »

Er..this might come as a bit of a shock but there is no culture in Ireland..

sorry mate but ask any of the people i met at the leitrim fleadh last week if there is any culture in ireland.
thats just the music...

Esel

Affable wrote: »

Doesn't mean you don't still have different behaviours to us.

Who are 'us'?

imeddyhobbs

berliner wrote: »

Er..this might come as a bit of a shock but there is no culture in Ireland.We let the language die.We all support english teams/watch BBC.Read english newspapers.Makes you wonder why we bothered with the whole independence mularkey.

my Irish granny doesnt know what chelsea is,please dont generalise

Affable

esel wrote: »

Who are 'us'?

The English.

imeddyhobbs

Affable wrote: »

The English.

Booo

longshanks

berliner wrote: »

Er..this might come as a bit of a shock but1 there is no culture in Ireland.2We let the language die.3We all support english teams/4watch BBC.5Read english newspapers.Makes you wonder why we bothered with the whole independence mularkey.

1. yeah there is
2. not me personally
3. nope, no interest there
4. not a whole lot
5. no again

lighten up beeotch, you might feel that way but there is no need to tar us all with the brush you've obviously been tarred with.

Xavi6

flanum wrote: »

sorry mate but ask any of the people i met at the leitrim fleadh last week if there is any culture in ireland.
thats just the music...

Culture? In Leitrim you say? Ha!

imeddyhobbs

Culture is dyieing everywhere that cant be disputed!

flanum

anyway op...

back to the question, how would you characterise the irish to a stranger?

Land of saints and scholars, fantastic sense of humour, very musical, great dancers.

quite possibly the most sexiest breed on this planet!

also been known to enjoy a pint of alcoholic beverage on a pleasent day, if its been well deserved after a hard days work of course. just the one or two though!

begrudgers, definitely, but i think we are more begrudging to fellow irish than to outsiders.

very welcoming, (at least we were once famous for it).

ModeSkeletor

Drunks. The lot of yas!

AlmightyCushion

flanum wrote: »

quite possibly the most sexiest breed on this planet!

Who told you that? Probably some stupid woman no doubt. Don't listen to them women, heads full of nonsense.

Lirange

Xavi6 wrote: »

Fondness for alcomohol is the blatantly obvious one.

Interestingly enough this is how many Danes describes themselves, same with the Germans, and the Australians. Across the Irish Sea they talk about their "pub culture." You think we have it bad? Look at the state of Russia.

Xavi6 wrote: »

someone's bound to say we're begrudgers as well.

The Irish are not alone there either.

The truth is we're not that much different from others. We're not "special."

imeddyhobbs

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

Who told you that? Probably some stupid woman no doubt. Don't listen to them women, heads full of nonsense.

I don't trust people that promote institutions

Sherifu

Affable wrote: »

I know I'm asking for generalisation.

But if you had to describe things that are unique about the Irish, for someone who has not lived in the culture, what would you say?

Riverdance.

Caoimhín

After the Celtic Tiger we are like binmen who have won the lottery.
If yous get what i mean.

imeddyhobbs

imeddyhobbs wrote: »

I was in the car with my slovak girlfriend recently driving around lonely roads in wexford,she was driving.
Walkers put their hands up to say hello and drivers also saluted she asked why were they waving and saluting and i said its because we are irish and a friendly race...Am i wrong?

Decent irish people are friendly.
My home has been invaded by a load of ****ers who refuse to acknowledge you even when you go out of your way for them,
and who sneer at you when you comment on the weather.
I feel a lynching coming on.

Caoimhín

Moonbaby wrote: »

Decent irish people are friendly.
My home has been invaded by a load of ****ers who refuse to acknowledge you even when you go out of your way for them,
and who sneer at you when you comment on the weather.
I feel a lynching coming on.

Really? wheres this?
Are the invaders of the homegrown kind from the other island?

Nerin

characterise the Irish??

hmmm, well, they're lazy, cant trust em, they steal whatevers not nailed down,hey are a godless despicable bunch of invaders, cant wait for them to be kicked off this island.

oh... wait...

caoibhin

caoibhin wrote: »

Really? wheres this?
Are the invaders of the homegrown kind from the other island?

They are from the pale, or they have lived there for two long.

Caoimhín

Moonbaby wrote: »

They are from the pale, or they have lived there for two long.

Ah right, holiday home owners from D4?
Cant stand that lot myself.

Pherekydes

I know they're from the UK (well, Derry), but we can claim them can't we, as they characterise the Irish:

Drunken Irish

Wibbs

Moonbaby wrote: »

They are from the pale, or they have lived there for two long.

Well the narrow minded culturally bereft parochial cute hoor bogger that is much to blame for the state of the country is also an easy stereotype. In any case a hell of a lot of those from dublin are of very recent country stock anyway.

The irish have a much reduced culture when compared to many in europe. We have little in the way of a national cuisine, never mind a local one. Our architectural heritage is sparse. The vast majority of towns look and act the same. etc We are a very homogenous culture, more driven by outside influences. That's increasing not reducing too.

You compare that to Italy or Spain or France or Holland or Germany or....? No comparison. Even a tiny population like the Icelandics have a more diverse culture.

MooseJam

did anyone mention filthy

ibuprofen

imeddyhobbs wrote: »

I was in the car with my slovak girlfriend recently driving around lonely roads in wexford,she was driving.
Walkers put their hands up to say hello and drivers also saluted she asked why were they waving and saluting and i said its because we are irish and a friendly race...Am i wrong?

Have to agree . I've been quite a few places around the world, doing the world trip thing, and the one thing I missed was the intelligent banter and friendliness of the Irish . I found when I was in Australia that the irish people in a group would always be the most social and extroverted....

Caoimhín

Wibbs wrote: »

.

The irish have a much reduced culture when compared to many in europe. We have little in the way of a national cuisine, never mind a local one. Our architectural heritage is sparse. The vast majority of towns look and act the same. etc We are a very homogenous culture, more driven by outside influences. That's increasing not reducing too.

You compare that to Italy or Spain or France or Holland or Germany or....? No comparison. Even a tiny population like the Icelandics have a more diverse culture.

We tend to run ourselves down, has anyone mentioned that yet.

D-A-V-E

this is hilarious, i think the Irish are a lot of things, funny, random, loud etc but after working in xtravision for a year iv come to the conclusion that were the tightest ppl when it comes to money, while half the ppl you serve in a night getting a bag of popcorn, when asked to pay off a small fine of 2 euros the go mad, want to know when and where and who took it out and 'they all didnt get that one!' augh then they have the cheek of sayin oh i cant pay it now, maybe later, and hand you a 50 when gettin popcorn...drives me absolutely mad!

pocketac3s

I wouldn't agree with the comment on us being tight, I worked in sales for a company selling to the UK and Ireland and I always prefered dealing with Irish peope - the English people especially where tight cnuts, the Irish could allways be brought around to your way of thinking if ya know what I mean.


Does that make us foolish?



Probably.












But we're all great for it.

EamonnKeane

caoibhin wrote: »

We tend to run ourselves down, has anyone mentioned that yet.

Yeah, no Irish person gets any real respect unless outsiders have given him recognition too. (exceptions: GAA people, Paddy Kavanagh, a few musicians)

Cunny-Funt

We don't piss off the rest of the world unlike a lot of countries.

Overheal

Saints? No. Humourous? Sure. Staggering != Dancing.

Sexy? That may have to be reserved for Latin or Italian or (mmm) German breeds. Gotta love them wimmins.

One or two drinks a day == officially alcoholic in any other country.

Yes you do seem to hate yourselves but that may be down to drink. The whole country suffers from depression.

Not welcoming, Not hostile.

More stereotypes, see: Intermission.

WhiteWashMan

begrudging

Kovik

For the most part, it's a far more pragmatic, realistic and unpretentious culture here. Just my view, being a bit of an outsider.

I *think* (so don't quote me) that Ireland is within the top three on the UN human development index, quality of life index and EU GDP per capita. That's absurdly impressive given where the country was twenty years ago, and it's far higher than most of the major EU nations.

I think people don't appreciate how well distributed the wealth of this country is. Across the economic divide, we're a far more comfortable people than most westerners. Inflation may be a touch high, but the overall cost of living (particularly toward the lower income end) is far more favourable here than elsewhere.

Culturally, Ireland is very distinct in a purely social fashion. There are few of the major historical hallmarks around Dublin than in other cities, sure, but that comes as a result of not being a barbaric imperial power. A lot of people express dissatisfaction with most "cultural" activities: Clubbing, going to pubs, generally just pissing about, they all get tiring. I'm one of them. However, the sad fact is that there is little different elsewhere in the west. I don't want to tap into the old "friendly Irish" business, but I've found Irish people have tended to be more open minded and less easily offended (indeed, the perceived virtue of being offended that you often get in England isn't quite so prominent here).

Additionally, there is a fantastic culture of social self-reflection in this country. While it may border on occasional national insecurity (as exhibited by some of the negative posters in here), it's a very healthy trait.

Politically, all the major parties skirt around the centre. While a touch boring, it demonstrates a mature pragmatism. When I hear politicians speak on questions and answers or the week in politics they speak of policy rather than aloof ideology, which is very refreshing.

Overall, I'm extremely happy here and feel there's a lot to be proud of. Compared to cultures abroad, I feel Irish people tend to be more realistic and rational and thus more approachable. The Irish business sector is fantastic for this reason alone.

Kovik

I would also point out that culture is not synonymous with cultural trappings or historical hallmarks (somebody mentioned "cuisine" in a very weird post above). Culture is a more nebulous concept and certainly a vitally immediate one, perhaps influenced by but certainly divorced from history and antecedents.

Kovik

Oh, and also:

Think about the number of people who answered "begrudging" to this thread. Consider pretty much every other major nation in Europe. Can you think of a single one devoid of problems relating to prejudice or intolerence?

The only distinction is that in Ireland the phenomenon is very widely acknowledged and openly criticised. Indeed, elsewhere, this begrudging attitude is often prized, encouraged or seen as somehow valid.

Overheal

Kovik wrote: »

I would also point out that culture is not synonymous with cultural trappings or historical hallmarks (somebody mentioned "cuisine" in a very weird post above). Culture is a more nebulous concept and certainly a vitally immediate one, perhaps influenced by but certainly divorced from history and antecedents.

ah yes. bacon and cabbage. fine irish cuisine. and coddle (which is disgusting)

WhiteWashMan

Kovik wrote: »

For the most part, it's a far more pragmatic, realistic and unpretentious culture here. Just my view, being a bit of an outsider.
.

indeed. although, im not sure how one catagorises a culture as pragmatic?
do you mean that it just gets up and does stuff without thinking it through or something?
i find it amazing that someone would try use personification on something like culture. it just doesnt work.

Kovik wrote: »

I *think* (so don't quote me) that Ireland is within the top three on the UN human development index, quality of life index and EU GDP per capita. That's absurdly impressive given where the country was twenty years ago, and it's far higher than most of the major EU nations.

i have no idea what a human development scale is, but id like to subscribe to your newsletter.
is this a characterisation of the irish?

Kovik wrote: »

I think people don't appreciate how well distributed the wealth of this country is. Across the economic divide, we're a far more comfortable people than most westerners. Inflation may be a touch high, but the overall cost of living (particularly toward the lower income end) is far more favourable here than elsewhere. .

cost of living my friend is outrageous. and one would think that the cost of living for those towards the lower income end would be harsher.
ive lived in several countries, and with the exception of denmark, those bastions of socialism, ireland is the most expensive country i have lived in.

Kovik wrote: »

Culturally, Ireland is very distinct in a purely social fashion. There are few of the major historical hallmarks around Dublin than in other cities, sure, but that comes as a result of not being a barbaric imperial power. A lot of people express dissatisfaction with most "cultural" activities: Clubbing, going to pubs, generally just pissing about, they all get tiring. I'm one of them. However, the sad fact is that there is little different elsewhere in the west. I don't want to tap into the old "friendly Irish" business, but I've found Irish people have tended to be more open minded and less easily offended (indeed, the perceived virtue of being offended that you often get in England isn't quite so prominent here).

ah yes, that good irish culture of clubbing and pissing about.

and irish people being more open minded?

are you sure youve been to ireland?
i have found that many irish people are insular and closed minded.

percieved virtue?
youre not a foreign student going mad with a dictionary are you?

Kovik wrote: »

Additionally, there is a fantastic culture of social self-reflection in this country. While it may border on occasional national insecurity (as exhibited by some of the negative posters in here), it's a very healthy trait.
.

????

self reflection?
self loathing more like it.

Kovik wrote: »

Politically, all the major parties skirt around the centre. While a touch boring, it demonstrates a mature pragmatism. When I hear politicians speak on questions and answers or the week in politics they speak of policy rather than aloof ideology, which is very refreshing.

now i know youre taking the mickey.
seriously.
you are in fact basing everything youve said about ireland after a bottle a tequila and a viewing of darby o gill and the little people.


right?

Kovik wrote: »

Overall, I'm extremely happy here and feel there's a lot to be proud of. Compared to cultures abroad, I feel Irish people tend to be more realistic and rational and thus more approachable. The Irish business sector is fantastic for this reason alone.

realism and rationalism has nothing to do with approachability.
the irish business sector is not fantastic. capitalism and corperations are fantastic.

seriously, you do know this is ireland youre talking about, and not any other country on the planet?
and put down the dictionary.

Kovik wrote: »

I would also point out that culture is not synonymous with cultural trappings or historical hallmarks (somebody mentioned "cuisine" in a very weird post above). Culture is a more nebulous concept and certainly a vitally immediate one, perhaps influenced by but certainly divorced from history and antecedents.

im sorry. can you say that in english so we can understand what youre saying?

Kovik wrote: »

Oh, and also:

Think about the number of people who answered "begrudging" to this thread. Consider pretty much every other major nation in Europe. Can you think of a single one devoid of problems relating to prejudice or intolerence?

The only distinction is that in Ireland the phenomenon is very widely acknowledged and openly criticised. Indeed, elsewhere, this begrudging attitude is often prized, encouraged or seen as somehow valid.

im not sure what your point is here.
is this some sort of validation for ireland being a country of begrudgers?

i actually cant think of a single country where begrudgery is encouraged or prized. its not a pleasant trait. in fact, ireland is the only country i know where begrudgery is a common trait.

Wibbs

caoibhin wrote: »

We tend to run ourselves down, has anyone mentioned that yet.

Yep we do and run down those among us who may strive for more. I think we are socially more aware in general than many places which is a good thing.

Kovik wrote:

I would also point out that culture is not synonymous with cultural trappings or historical hallmarks (somebody mentioned "cuisine" in a very weird post above).

That would be me. Cuisine is an example of culture. The most diverse cultures also have the most diverse cuisines. It's a pretty good if strange yardstick. A culture with more diversity when compared to our, say Italy, also has a more diverse cuisine. Same for the French, the Spanish etc. Even the English, not well known for their culinary history have a more diverse cuisine historically.

Culture is a more nebulous concept and certainly a vitally immediate one, perhaps influenced by but certainly divorced from history and antecedents.

It can't be divorced from and influenced by at the same time to any great degree. One hand washes the other even if to rebel against the past.

There are few of the major historical hallmarks around Dublin than in other cities, sure, but that comes as a result of not being a barbaric imperial power.

Great in theory, but we were part and parcel of that barbaric imperial power. We were part of the armies and the administration of that empire and not just the british empire either. We threw in with the american expansion of the 19th century too. To suggest otherwise is plainly daft and revisionist.

The only distinction is that in Ireland the phenomenon is very widely acknowledged and openly criticised. Indeed, elsewhere, this begrudging attitude is often prized, encouraged or seen as somehow valid.

That's not far wide of the mark actually. Good point. Maybe that is an advantage of not having the obvious external trappings of culture, we have turned more inward and reflective. Both in a good and bad way. Often we have to leave ireland behind like many of our writers in the past. When they leave they add to our culture from the outside.

In one simple way we can be very proud of us as a people. Outside the influence of rome and it's fall we preserved in stone huts among the last lights of the classical age. Without those people the europe of today would have been very very different. We then went and brought that knowledge back to a europe that had largely forgotten it. We hear all the usual about the land of saints and scholars, but I don't think we appreciate how much of a knock on effect we had. Without those mad monks and the ones they taught all over europe, the renaissance and the age of enlightenment may have never happened or happened much later.

We have continued to do so in the centuries since and even today. For such a tiny out of the way place our influence on modern culture is vast by comparison to many. Even if we may often act like little americans wearing the same clothes watching the same stuff listening to the same music, etc much of that wouldn't be around but for us. It wasn't our various governments or obvious institutions, but ordinary and extraordinary irish men and women, that had that influence. So in a way although we may not have the obvious touristy culture going on, we should be rightfully proud of that and our continued presence on the world stage.

Wibbs

WhiteWashMan wrote:

cost of living my friend is outrageous. and one would think that the cost of living for those towards the lower income end would be harsher.
ive lived in several countries, and with the exception of denmark, those bastions of socialism, ireland is the most expensive country i have lived in.

I left that point of his well alone as it is so divorced from reality to be utterly daft. We have a crazily high cost of living here. The amount of people up to their eyes in debt is equally high.

Kovik

WhiteWashMan wrote: »

indeed. although, im not sure how one catagorises a culture as pragmatic?
do you mean that it just gets up and does stuff without thinking it through or something?
i find it amazing that someone would try use personification on something like culture. it just doesnt work.

The people here are more pragmatic. That is realistic, professional and efficient. I'm not sure where this "does stuff without thinking it through" business comes from.

i have no idea what a human development scale is, but id like to subscribe to your newsletter.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_development_index
It's a measurement of not only economic proficiency but also the many social variables that supposedly constituted a more rounded and functional society and economy. We're currently third in the EU, fifth worldwide. In comparison, France is 10th, the US is 12th, Spain 13th, the UK 16th and Germany 22nd.

is this a characterisation of the irish?

It is reflects my initial statement, yes.

cost of living my friend is outrageous. and one would think that the cost of living for those towards the lower income end would be harsher.
ive lived in several countries, and with the exception of denmark, those bastions of socialism, ireland is the most expensive country i have lived in.

If you're earning overseas and living here, perhaps. But the combination of free education and healthcare, very low taxation and high earning overwhelm the somewhat higher inflation here. Urban sprawl around Dublin is a little problem for buyers, coming from Berlin where they're basically giving property away. However, the situation remains far more favourable than in London, for example. Other than that, assuming you're not unemployed I don't see how pure cost of living can be effecting you so much. I will own, a night out is a little on the expensive side compared to the new Eastern European destinations, but nothing incredible.

ah yes, that good irish culture of clubbing and pissing about.

It is the culture of an entire hemisphere. It's not different or better overseas.

and irish people being more open minded?

are you sure youve been to ireland?
i have found that many irish people are insular and closed minded.

I'm not sure about your own situation but I've found meeting new people here to be incredibly easy compared to elsewhere. In general, I think a lot of people find it jarring when trying to speak to new people abroad. I find Irish business people incredibly accessible and reasonable compared to the hoop-jumping, general aloofness and occasional irrationality of those in the UK. Given my age, I was expecting work to be quite difficult but in Ireland people were happy to listen to the pitch, while in the UK I was constantly fielding questions about youth.

percieved virtue?
youre not a foreign student going mad with a dictionary are you?

Well, I'm a student I guess.

????

self reflection?
self loathing more like it.

Maybe on the internet.

But in the wider media there is a ton of, just as I said, self-reflection and self-interrogation.

now i know youre taking the mickey.
seriously.
you are in fact basing everything youve said about ireland after a bottle a tequila and a viewing of darby o gill and the little people.

You're basing your view on an overly negative fantasy, whereas mine is derived from unbiased observation and fact. This is Ireland in 2008, not Siberia circa 1952?

realism and rationalism has nothing to do with approachability.

That wasn't really my point but I disagree all the same. Approaching somebody with a wealth of preconceptions and a closed mind is not going to get you very far.

the irish business sector is not fantastic. capitalism and corperations are fantastic.

Irish entrepreneurs do exceedingly well, both inside and outside of the country. The business sector is doing incredibly well, you need only observe the health of the economy and the capacity for our financial services sector to basically emerge from the credit fiasco unscaved.

seriously, you do know this is ireland youre talking about, and not any other country on the planet?.

Do you?

im sorry. can you say that in english so we can understand what youre saying?

In brief, culture is not defined by history.

im not sure what your point is here.
is this some sort of validation for ireland being a country of begrudgers?

It's that if the entire country is going around lamenting the fact that there are so many "begrudgers" around, not only is it indicative of a cultural rejection of such an ideology but also that the problem is not quite as innate as you would be led to believe. Also, only the term is unique to Ireland, the phenomenon is worldwide. By virtue of rejecting it in such visceral terms is the country not perhaps more palatable than, say, the England and its acceptance of a tabloid culture?

i actually cant think of a single country where begrudgery is encouraged or prized. its not a pleasant trait. in fact, ireland is the only country i know where begrudgery is a common trait.

Observe every nation in Europe with, let's say, a deep anti-EU or anti-immigration sentiment, or still holding a grudge against old rivals for trivial reasons. In many corners, such feelings are expressed openly and prized. In fact, it's widespread throughout most of Europe. I'm not saying such sentiment does not exist here, merely that it is less acceptable, contained in a firm minority and almost universally condemned by legitimate media.

Kovik

Wibbs wrote: »

That would be me. Cuisine is an example of culture. The most diverse cultures also have the most diverse cuisines. It's a pretty good if strange yardstick. A culture with more diversity when compared to our, say Italy, also has a more diverse cuisine. Same for the French, the Spanish etc. Even the English, not well known for their culinary history have a more diverse cuisine historically.

But must a culture necessarily contain certain traits to be somehow legitimate? I would say absolutely not, that culture should not be defined that way, that it emerges regardless. I would go so far as to say that such culture is essentially hollow in today's world, merely a marketable commodity. Look at all the invented culture of Ireland sold to tourists in the same way "legitimate" cultural products of other nations are.

It can't be divorced from and influenced by at the same time to any great degree. One hand washes the other even if to rebel against the past.

A bit of a garbled sentence on my part, certainly. My point is that culture is an immediate thing, a thing of the present. Whether the past has an influence or not doesn't matter. No culture is superior because various monuments were built in the Victorian period to commemorate killing people.

Great in theory, but we were part and parcel of that barbaric imperial power. We were part of the armies and the administration of that empire and not just the british empire either. We threw in with the american expansion of the 19th century too. To suggest otherwise is plainly daft and revisionist.

I agree. There's no doubt that if Ireland had been in such a position it would have persued colonial expansion too. That doesn't negate the fact that this is why there are so few major monuments around Dublin due to our not being an economic and imperial power, nor does is dissuade from the argument that most cultural landmarks elsewhere stem from this very phenomenon. The point is that to place an emphasis on such things is, perhaps, objectionable.

WhiteWashMan

Kovik wrote: »

The people here are more pragmatic. That is realistic, professional and efficient. I'm not sure where this "does stuff without thinking it through" business comes from.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_development_index
It's a measurement of not only economic proficiency but also the many social variables that supposedly constituted a more rounded and functional society and economy. We're currently third in the EU, fifth worldwide. In comparison, France is 10th, the US is 12th, Spain 13th, the UK 16th and Germany 22nd.


It is reflects my initial statement, yes.




If you're earning overseas and living here, perhaps. But the combination of free education and healthcare, very low taxation and high earning overwhelm the somewhat higher inflation here. Urban sprawl around Dublin is a little problem for buyers, coming from Berlin where they're basically giving property away. However, the situation remains far more favourable than in London, for example. Other than that, assuming you're not unemployed I don't see how pure cost of living can be effecting you so much. I will own, a night out is a little on the expensive side compared to the new Eastern European destinations, but nothing incredible.



It is the culture of an entire hemisphere. It's not different or better overseas.


I'm not sure about your own situation but I've found meeting new people here to be incredibly easy compared to elsewhere. In general, I think a lot of people find it jarring when trying to speak to new people abroad. I find Irish business people incredibly accessible and reasonable compared to the hoop-jumping, general aloofness and occasional irrationality of those in the UK. Given my age, I was expecting work to be quite difficult but in Ireland people were happy to listen to the pitch, while in the UK I was constantly fielding questions about youth.


Well, I'm a student I guess.





Maybe on the internet.

But in the wider media there is a ton of, just as I said, self-reflection and self-interrogation.




You're basing your view on an overly negative fantasy, whereas mine is derived from unbiased observation and fact. This is Ireland in 2008, not Siberia circa 1952?





That wasn't really my point but I disagree all the same. Approaching somebody with a wealth of preconceptions and a closed mind is not going to get you very far.


Irish entrepreneurs do exceedingly well, both inside and outside of the country. The business sector is doing incredibly well, you need only observe the health of the economy and the capacity for our financial services sector to basically emerge from the credit fiasco unscaved.


Do you?



In brief, culture is not defined by history.



It's that if the entire country is going around lamenting the fact that there are so many "begrudgers" around, not only is it indicative of a cultural rejection of such an ideology but also that the problem is not quite as innate as you would be led to believe. Also, only the term is unique to Ireland, the phenomenon is worldwide. By virtue of rejecting it in such visceral terms is the country not perhaps more palatable than, say, the England and its acceptance of a tabloid culture?


Observe every nation in Europe with, let's say, a deep anti-EU or anti-immigration sentiment, or still holding a grudge against old rivals for trivial reasons. In many corners, such feelings are expressed openly and prized. In fact, it's widespread throughout most of Europe. I'm not saying such sentiment does not exist here, merely that it is less acceptable, contained in a firm minority and almost universally condemned by legitimate media.

i guess i'll just have to disagree with you on pretty much all of your points.

but you have made me smile.

see, the irish have a great sense of humour!
the only problem is, people often mix it up laughing with, and laughing at.