Hmm... should I be offended by how the McReary family is depicted?

Kovik

I general, I think the representations of the various communities in the GTA universe are perfectly excusable, given that not only are they very cartoonish in nature but the games seem to have contempt for everybody indescriminately.

However, they really go to town on the Irish in this game. There are four McReary mission givers thus far and all of them make reference to substance abuse, alcoholism, broken homes and occasionally things like "futile causes" and the troubles up north. These, while a little grating, I can excuse for the above reasons. However, while in a car with Packie he comes out with something to the effect of "if you're Irish and you're not beating yourself up you're beating your wife" which kinda struck me as more than a little barbed and malicious.

I think I might just be oversensitive, but anyone reckon the Irish are getting a more raw deal from the game than other communities? The cynic in me reckons that the Rockstar North's large British staff may have something to do with the more cutting nature of these themes compared to, say, the Italians but that might just be paranoia.

estebancambias

Kovik wrote: »

I general, I think the representations of the various communities in the GTA universe are perfectly excusable, given that not only are they very cartoonish in nature but the games seem to have contempt for everybody indescriminately.

However, they really go to town on the Irish in this game. There are four McReary mission givers thus far and all of them make reference to substance abuse, alcoholism, broken homes and occasionally things like "futile causes" and the troubles up north. These, while a little grating, I can excuse for the above reasons. However, while in a car with Packie he comes out with something to the effect of "if you're Irish and you're not beating yourself up you're beating your wife" which kinda struck me as more than a little barbed and malicious.

I think I might just be oversensitive, but anyone reckon the Irish are getting a more raw deal from the game than other communities? The cynic in me reckons that the Rockstar North's large British staff may have something to do with the more cutting nature of these themes compared to, say, the Italians but that might just be paranoia.

As a stereotype, if it wasn't for the ginger hair thing, I am happy with the Irish stereotype...hell its better than the english one.

robby^5

Its all fairly tongue in cheek tbh.

And really I dont see it as taking the piss out of the Irish, but more so Irish-American culture, and even then its an extreme stereotype of that cluture, stuff like The Departed shows the Irish crime underworld as a family run business, and thats what rockstar have lifted their idea's from and used the typical stereotype of Irish thugs... also the dialogue is great "I havent see action like this since Belfast"

degrassinoel

if you take offense at something like that because you're irish, what about the italians, russians, chinese, etc.. its a game, its fiction and its entertainment, if you take it all too serious you end up being in the same category as the soccar moms who want GTA banned for being able to get drunk and drive a car in the game.

besides, the mcreary's are american-irish

seriously, its entertainment for the masses, not every irish person is like that, you know that, i know that and everyone with half a brain knows that. same goes for every single race color and creed depicted in the game.

Kovik

degrassinoel wrote: »

if you take offense at something like that because you're irish, what about the italians, russians, chinese, etc.. its a game, its fiction and its entertainment, if you take it all too serious you end up being in the same category as the soccar moms who want GTA banned for being able to get drunk and drive a car in the game.

besides, the mcreary's are american-irish

seriously, its entertainment for the masses, not every irish person is like that, you know that, i know that and everyone with half a brain knows that. same goes for every single race color and creed depicted in the game.

I addressed that in the original post.

My contention is that the depiction of that family might be a little bit harsher in nature than the treatment of Russians, Italians etc. Any thoughts on that?

robby^5

I dunno, every nationality in the game is really porttrayed in the worst possible way, buts its all really tongue in cheek... if you take offence and cant see the funny side of it then you're being a tad hypocritical being ok with other nationalities being portrayed negatively...

mike65

Hi 'cuse me while I pop my head around teh door and say "ghet a life"

Mike.

minidazzler

In Fairness you dont know all the Stereotypes of Russians and Italians while you know all the Irish Ones.

and These are mainly Irish American ones because the Wife beating thing is something that alot of Irish-Americans men did back in the old days.

estebancambias

minidazzler wrote: »

In Fairness you dont know all the Stereotypes of Russians and Italians while you know all the Irish Ones.

and These are mainly Irish American ones because the Wife beating thing is something that alot of Irish-Americans men did back in the old days.

I don't get this. In my opinion, in the entertainment world 'bad' traits for example violence are ''better'' and much cooler.

I was watching Family Guy there, and he finds out his father is Irish, now that is an annoying stereotype.

As I said the English stereotype of bad teeth and snobbish is much worse in my opinion.

ShawnRaven

Kovik wrote: »

I think I might just be oversensitive, but anyone reckon the Irish are getting a more raw deal from the game than other communities? The cynic in me reckons that the Rockstar North's large British staff may have something to do with the more cutting nature of these themes compared to, say, the Italians but that might just be paranoia.

It's not a stereotype for a start, it's almost fact. Maybe that's why you're having a hard time accepting it. That's not to say everyone from a broken home turns to crime. But it does happen.

Secondly, it's a game. A freakin' video game. Take it for what it is.
VR!

krudler

so its ok for black guys to all be in gangs and smoking weed, Italians to all be mafia guys, Russians to all be hard drinking psychos, Americans to be fat,dumb and lazy,Chinese to all be triads, Japanese to be Yakuza but the Irish portrayal is a problem? they're blatant stereotypes for the sake of it, in a video game, and a smart game at that it takes shots at everyone not just specific groups,and its gloriously politically incorrect and im glad

KdjaCL

krudler wrote: »

so its ok for black guys to all be in gangs and smoking weed, Italians to all be mafia guys, Russians to all be hard drinking psychos, Americans to be fat,dumb and lazy,Chinese to all be triads, Japanese to be Yakuza but the Irish portrayal is a problem? they're blatant stereotypes for the sake of it, in a video game, and a smart game at that it takes shots at everyone not just specific groups,and its gloriously politically incorrect and im glad

+1


LOL@ op tho


kdjac

Kovik

Did anyone actually read my post (including the above moderator) before responding? I was very moderate and asked quite earnestly whether I was overreacting. People read the title and went into "OMG JACK THOMPSON WE SHALL OVERCOME" mode. Good stuff.

robinph

Kovik wrote: »

I addressed that in the original post.

My contention is that the depiction of that family might be a little bit harsher in nature than the treatment of Russians, Italians etc. Any thoughts on that?

Your just taking offence at the jokes being made at your expense, but laughing along with all the ones done at someone else's. Everyone seems to be being insulted just the same amount as far as I've seen, well apart from Americans but they are the basis of the location the game is set in so there is more opportunity to have a dig at them.

Kovik

Kovik wrote: »

Did anyone actually read my post (including the above moderator) before responding? I was very moderate and asked quite earnestly whether I was overreacting. People read the title and went into "OMG JACK THOMPSON WE SHALL OVERCOME" mode. Good stuff.

Yes you are over reacting. Get real, it's just a game.

Jack Sheehan

I think the point is that they are americans TRYING to be irish.

BanzaiBk

minidazzler wrote: »

In Fairness you dont know all the Stereotypes of Russians and Italians while you know all the Irish Ones.

Agreed. My father is Russian and laughs at the stereotyping in GTA IV. It's just a game for god sake.

estebancambias

Jack Sheehan wrote: »

I think the point is that they are americans TRYING to be irish.

Honestly I don't think so. You very well could be more versed than me, but its not like Scotland, with Celtics fans singing IRA songs and saying they're Irish....America is different from what I see. People are fully aware they are Americans, with Irish roots. Its the same for all nationalities in America to uphold their ancestry, well perhaps maby not the Germans for some reason.

Its only because we're Irish we here of the 'plastic paddy' thing, but really most people in America associate themselves with ( )-American.

I don't think there is any reason for it to be parodied, when its not really all that funny and just fact. Like on the American census it says Irish American, German American, Polish American...whatever American.
Its not like all Americans want to be irish, they just simply are Irish. I don't know how one can be expected to lose their tradition just because they moved somewhere else.


Anyway sorry for going off-topic, but I really don't think thats what they were aiming for. Was Tommy Vercetti about Americans trying to be Italian?

Packie for me is a superb character and in my view Rock* have nailed the Irishness in him.

L31mr0d

Yes OP, you are overreacting.

plus stereotypes become so for a reason, when a trait starts to become familiar amongst a certain group of people it will become their stereotype. I can guarantee that every irish person here if they where to look back even 2 generations into their family tree would find at least one drunkard and wife abuser that they are related to.

In fairness the Irish have a lot of positive stereotypes. With all the bad ones we have i'd still rather be Irish than English or American.

johnny_ultimate

While I don't agree that the Irish stereotypes are offensive yet (only played one or two missions with them yet though), and while I would imagine that the vast majority of players will either recognise it as satirical or a non-issue, I also think its extremely negative to dismiss such things on the basis of - as many posters have pointed out so far - "its just a game".

How is this an excuse for stereoptyping? Why should games have any more right to portray characters as stereotypes than films, books or other mediums? Stereotypes in general are a negative thing, IMO. They do have some positives - such as helping the audience establish a character type quickly. But overall they do tend to have a negative effect. GTA does it to such extremes that it is amusing and clearly satirical, but other games aren't so clever. But even GTA can be questionable - the Playboy character in particular is really not funny and just a tired rehash of the worst kind of African-American stereotyping.

If people keep dismissing such issues on the basis that "its just a game" well I for one feel it will be a pretty long time before gaming grows up (and lets be honest, there are far less well developed characters in games (with a few notable exceptions of course) than other media). As much as I love gaming, this is one thing that always annoys me - gamers seem to be willing to accept stereotyping and other problems without seeing any need for improvement.

While in this case the stereotypes aren't particularly offensive, the fact remains that games in general do tend to perpetuate pretty misogynistic and clichéd representations of characters, and I don't see why this should be the case. Its a shame more games don't follow in the footsteps of Beyond Good and Evil (to give just one example) and present well developed characters. One reason why gaming still isn't recognised as a mainstream medium - they are decades behind in character depth.

Sorry for ranting (and definitely reading into too much detail), but theres no need for this kind of discussion to be dismissed just because it concerns gaming.

KdjaCL

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Sorry for ranting (and definitely reading into too much detail), but theres no need for this kind of discussion to be dismissed just because it concerns gaming.

There is when every other stereotype ever is in the game.

seriously it was funny that the OP posted it, but its embarassing when others vindictate it based on a video game that slaughteres every one.


being drunk right now means they right yeah?


kdjac

ShawnRaven

Kovik wrote: »

Did anyone actually read my post (including the above moderator) before responding? I was very moderate and asked quite earnestly whether I was overreacting. People read the title and went into "OMG JACK THOMPSON WE SHALL OVERCOME" mode. Good stuff.

Do you even know who Jack Thompson is? He's a lawyer who's been trying to hunt down Rockstar games because "kids are killing people because of what they see in their games".

I seriously doubt if he gives a sh*t about the portrayed stereotypes, but i could be wrong there?
VR!

Cunny-Funt

What's the accent like? Thats usually the only thing that pisses me off. When they give'em the whole lucky charms accent.

V9

American accents. Tbh I was glad it wasn't a "fiddley dee" kinda stereotype.

Cunny-Funt

V!alli wrote: »

American accents. Tbh I was glad it wasn't a "fiddley dee" kinda stereotype.

Ah I see. Yeah I hate ****. BioShock was refreshing to hear a real accent for once.

validreasoning! wrote: »

because kids are killing people because of what they see in their games.

Eh, no they aint. You a Jack Thompson supporter or something?

ShawnRaven

My bad, i meant to put that in quotation marks.
Jesus, that does make me look like a JT supporter. Ooooh Jesus, help me out here!

Fixed now!
VR!

estebancambias

Ok why do people keep thinking that he's going to talk with a Dublin accent?

The guy is American, but he's Irish. If someone says a charachter is Italian in America(vercetti) you don't expect him to be speaking Italian.

A lot of people from the US identify with their 'true' roots, but because we're not Polish or German for example we don't hear of this.

Charlie

Yes OP, you are over-reacting, for several reasons;

- Most importantly, it's a video game.

- As with other stereotypes, they try to go overboard so as to set it out as being tongue in cheek. If they only slightly touched on it, then it might sting alot more as people would think they are being serious.

- Every group has been subject to a pop in the GTA series, and in many ways we've gotten off lightly.

- I spent about 3 months living in Woodside in Queens, NYC, which is the heart of the Irish American community in New York (Sorry Woodlawn ) and compared to most other stereotypes in the game, this is probably the one that is the least OTT. Whilst I met some great people there, alot of those living in Woodside were RA chanting alco's who loved a good ruck. Anyone else who spent time there should be able to back this up.

Cunny-Funt

validreasoning! wrote: »

My bad, i meant to put that in quotation marks.
Jesus, that does make me look like a JT supporter. Ooooh Jesus, help me out here!

Fixed now!
VR!

np no worries m8.

@ estebancambias, I didnt say anything about them having Dublin accents I just asked about their accents as I have yet to play the game and this was about Irish sterotyping. & the fake Irish accent is one of the most annoying sterotype there is.

Charlie

Cunny-Funt wrote: »

the fake Irish accent is one of the most annoying sterotype there is.

as opposed to






or this

As stereotypes go, we get off lighlty.

The tax man

Top O' the mornin' to ya.
OP you should be more upset with Matt Groening then RockStar.
Every nation has it's stereotype and when portrayed in games\cartoons should be taken with a pinch of salt as they're always taken to the extreme.
Does every English person have a posh accent and have crooked yellow teeth?...no they don't. Just another example of things taken to the extreme.

It's only a game,relax.

Cunny-Funt

The tax man wrote: »

Top O' the mornin' to ya.

woah, holy **** I saw that episode a few times on Sky but I'm pretty sure they blanked out that English building getting blown up.

charlie mchugh wrote: »

as opposed to
.......

As stereotypes go, we get off lighlty.

You misunderstand me I was saying the fake Irish accent is the worst "irish" stereotype imo. Not worse stereotype in general. It just really pisses me off as the accent does not even exist yet American TV consistently use it.

steviec

I don't "get" the Irish family in GTA IV. I didn't think they were portrayed overly negatively or anything, but I genuinely didn't understand the Irish connection. If they didn't occasionally mention Ireland in the dialogue then they'd just seem like standard American thugs to me.

joe123

Didnt even bother reading the rest of the posts but to the OP....for gods sake its gta. ****s sake.:cool:

mehfesto2

Hows the accent in the game?

I could put up with the portrayal when it's not diddley-aye accent. Or a Scottish one. Nothing worse than that!

joe123

mehfesto2 wrote: »

Hows the accent in the game?

I could put up with the portrayal when it's not diddley-aye accent. Or a Scottish one. Nothing worse than that!

They all have american accents....understandable some of them maybe having american accents but I thought at least one of them though would have an irish accent. I think there just of irish heritage sort of thing...

yoji101

Yeah gotta go with the majority here, I think you're overreacting.

It's all over the top in the GTA4 world. This seems like a case of something just being closer to you than all the other stuff. Very like the way I've seen people love South Park untill they start slagging off/attacking a group that the previous fan was a member of.

Asmodean

Yeah I'm the same I didn't find them offensive at all, considering how they COULD have been portrayed. All red hair sitting on crocks of gold and ****. lol
And in all fairness we got off lightly, look at the poor roasting the south americans got off Lazlo

koneko

Everyone gets stereotyped and "hard done by" in the GTA games, I think you're definitely overreacting and being overly sensitive. It's GTA, don't take any of it seriously.

Went drinking with Packie, it was hilarious, he said he dreams of going to Ireland and then sang Danny Boy. Then got his by a car, stopped singing, got up, and continued. Then he fell on his ass again. Classic.

Definitely lol at Lazlo's slagging of the south americans.

Vegeta

Asmodean wrote: »

And in all fairness we got off lightly, look at the poor roasting the south americans got off Lazlo

The first time I tuned into Integrity I heard this

Branoic

joe123 wrote: »

They all have american accents....understandable some of them maybe having american accents but I thought at least one of them though would have an irish accent. I think there just of irish heritage sort of thing...

I thought I detected a bit of an Irish twang now and again in Derrick's accent (the junkie brother)? He was supposed to be just recently returned from some time in the "Old Country", maybe that's why.

tHE vAGGABOND

not bothered to read the thread at all...

All I will say is that if your easily offended your really playing the wrong game.

Maybe you should get a wii and mario party or something non-offensive

faceman

Gta is a very tongue in cheek game, OP is deffo over reacting. Im more flattered that there is a bit of irish included in the game, as OTT as it might be!

KrazeeEyezKilla

The tax man wrote: »

Top O' the mornin' to ya.
OP you should be more upset with Matt Groening then RockStar.

That was John Swartzwelder not Matt Groening.

These things depend on the context. If it was a serious drama I'd be offended but GTA can't be taken seriously so it's ok, they didn't get really nasty or insulting.

MCMLXXXIII

OP you are overreacting. Just be glad that the Irish culture is important enough to be considered for the game. No one is represented well, and only a few are represented poorly. There are many different cultures that were ignored for the game.

estebancambias wrote: »

...
Its only because we're Irish we here of the 'plastic paddy' thing, but really most people in America associate themselves with ( )-American.

Well...not quite. I now live in the US and the only people I know that identify themselves as ( )-American are Black people, and Aisians that were adopted by families here. As we all know, Blacks are African-American, and (mostly Koreans)(at least where I am) refer to themselves as simply American. Most others just say "Irish" or "Middle-Eastern," etc.

My Dad is Irish and my Mum is Italian. I look more Italian (it's the hair). Average conversation when I meet someone at a bar:
"Hi"
"Hi, how are you?"
"Good, I'm <insert name here>"
"Nice to meet you, I'm Mike."
"Oh geeze, there are like a zillion Mikes - what's your last name?"
"<I tell them my last name>"
<I get a weird look> "Oh, you looked more Mediterranian to me, like Greek or something."
"Nope, I'm Irish and Italian"
"Oh, so you got all the drinking genes!"
"Sure...let me buy you a drink..."
...and the conversation continues.

Point of story: (In the US) 90% of the time it comes up in the first conversation with someone
AND
That stereotypes follow you constantly everywhere so we just need to learn to deal with it and work the situation so we can get numbers at the bar.

estebancambias wrote: »

I don't think there is any reason for it to be parodied, when its not really all that funny and just fact. Like on the American census it says Irish American, German American, Polish American...whatever American.
Its not like all Americans want to be irish, they just simply are Irish. I don't know how one can be expected to lose their tradition just because they moved somewhere else.

Not to tear your WHOLE post apart, because the census does day ( )-American, but besides once every ten years in the privacy of your own home, it really depends on what's going on. I have never seen so many Irish people in my life, than I do every March 17 - in the US. Every department store has shirts that have "cute" sayings like "Kiss me, I'm Irish" or "I'm not lucky, I'm good" all with shamrocks and harps. Everything is dyed green, including the Chicago river, and it's hard to find beer that is not green during the middle of March. Yesterday was May 5, a Mexican Patriotic holiday. Those same people were all drinking margaritas and wearing sombreros all day. A few months from now, Americans will be complaining about the Mexican border, while drinking Oktoberfest and pretending they are German. I guess it's good that everyone embraces so many other people, but people usually only refer to themselves by their "home" country, and generations later hold allegiance to that country rather than the US. That's just how it is in the US, and the pop culture (including GTA) shows that.

KoKane

Kovik wrote: »

I general, I think the representations of the various communities in the GTA universe are perfectly excusable, given that not only are they very cartoonish in nature but the games seem to have contempt for everybody indescriminately.

However, they really go to town on the Irish in this game. There are four McReary mission givers thus far and all of them make reference to substance abuse, alcoholism, broken homes and occasionally things like "futile causes" and the troubles up north. These, while a little grating, I can excuse for the above reasons. However, while in a car with Packie he comes out with something to the effect of "if you're Irish and you're not beating yourself up you're beating your wife" which kinda struck me as more than a little barbed and malicious.

I think I might just be oversensitive, but anyone reckon the Irish are getting a more raw deal from the game than other communities? The cynic in me reckons that the Rockstar North's large British staff may have something to do with the more cutting nature of these themes compared to, say, the Italians but that might just be paranoia.

In the interest of mental health;
remember, its just a game.

singloud

I've yet to buy the game.

Let me make a wild gues:
does the Irish family have any IRA connections?

I cannot believe this thread has gone on for so long over such a silly issue.

Explosive_Cornflake

I think OP's questions weather or not the Irish get a rougher end of the stick than other nations, and if so should he be allowed to be offended.
IMO, no, a lot of nations get rough treatment, especially the Americans themselves.

estebancambias

But the thing is I don't think they have been rough. They have been rough on Jamacians, and hell even african americans but like the Hispanics in SA the Irish in this game are tough and pretty life like I think.


*just for the record why does Packie in that mission keep saying ''let us go peaceful LIKE''

singloud

i think the irish appear to have got off quite lightly compared to other ethnicities in GTA