Can Ireland take Zimbawe in a war?

Riddle101

If Mugabe took seized power and turned it into a military state, do you take if Ireland were to go into Zimbawe to take down Mugabe's regime we could do it or would it be suicide?

Given Ireland's position i'd say we'd have a chance, we're a pretty modern army and Zimbawe might not have the economic resources to fight a war giving it's own internal problems, i'd say we could do it pending aid given to us from countries like USA and Britiain and the people of Zimbawe who are against Mugabe

c-90

they have fighter jets/ well some kind of jet so with out airsupport i wouldnt say so, but if it came done to ground forces?

Manic Moran

Well, they have about as many tanks as Ireland has anti-tank missiles.

Quality goes a long way over quantity, but if you want to do an American style "Beat the crap out of someone much bigger than you", you still need to have some pretty serious hardware to do it. Ireland just doesn't have the logistical capability or sufficiently superior weapons.

NTM

Hogmeister B

Manic Moran wrote: »

Quality goes a long way over quantity, but if you want to do an American style "Beat the crap out of someone much bigger than you", you still need to have some pretty serious hardware to do it.
NTM

Since when does America beat the crap out of countries that are BIGGER than them?! They haven't fought and won a war against a first world country since WWII.

Manic Moran

In terms of pure numbers. How many US soldiers were in Iraq in 1991 vs how many Iraqi soldiers were in Iraq in 1991? Who won? Ditto 2003. The Iraqis were technologically overmatched and most of the time never had a chance to even see their killers.

NTM

Riddle101

Manic Moran wrote: »

In terms of pure numbers. How many US soldiers were in Iraq in 1991 vs how many Iraqi soldiers were in Iraq in 1991? Who won? Ditto 2003. The Iraqis were technologically overmatched and most of the time never had a chance to even see their killers.

NTM

Well to be honest the US soldiers didn't go into Iraq in 1991, they just drove the Iraqi forces back behind the border of Kuwait and then left.

Funnily enough people actually wanted USA to go into Iraq in the Gulf War in 91, when the US had pushed back their forces, the Iraqi people all rebelled against Saddam in the hopes that the US would come in a take him out of power, however the US much like they did in Vietnam left and left the Iraqi people to their fate who were brutally murdered by Saddam and the rebellion brutally quarreled. Then when the US came into Iraq in 2003, the Iraqi people didn't want to know the US anymore for allowing their people to get slaugtered. Just though i'd put that out while we're talking about the Gulf War.

Anyway i'm sure if the UK and the US proveded us with Tanks and Air vechiles we'd be able to fight Zimbawe, but would it be too much to ask for aid from out so called allies or should we try alone

Kintarō Hattori

Riddle101 wrote: »

Anyway i'm sure if the UK and the US proveded us with Tanks and Air vechiles we'd be able to fight Zimbawe, but would it be too much to ask for aid from out so called allies or should we try alone

To be honest I don't imagine it being as easy as that. Training counts for alot and we'd have little to no training on the hardware that you imagine us being provided with.
Also I know it's only imaginery but why on earth would the UK or US provide us with hardware. The US wouldn't care and wouldn't get involved and the UK has a tough relationship with Zimbabwe and so couldn't be seen to provide us with the technology.

No I'm afraid we're pretty puny in terms of military capability and we're not really a match for anyone.

Manic Moran

Riddle101 wrote: »

Well to be honest the US soldiers didn't go into Iraq in 1991, they just drove the Iraqi forces back behind the border of Kuwait and then left.

You miss the point.

A rule of thumb is that an attacker needs to outnumber an equivalent defender by three to one in order to have a fair chance of victory. The Coalition did not have this superiority in numbers, yet they still defeated the Iraqi defensive lines with very minimal casualties. This would not have been possible were it not for technological overmatch.

NTM

purple'n'gold

The Irish soldier is as well trained and equipped as a soldier in any other army, and would be more than a match for any Zimbabwean. But, as our tiny army’s role is to protect the security of the state from internal enemies they are just not capable of fighting a war against another country. (Even a decrepit entity like Zimbabwe.) Our army just do not have the hardware or man power. We don’t even have an air force, and without an air force, you cannot wage war. So no, we couldn’t take Zimbabwe, or any place else for that matter.

OS119

actually i think the Irish Army could defeat the Zimbabwean Army, given that the Irish Army should be able to source two infantry battlegroups - both fairly mobile, with artillery and (some) armour, and quite good battalion level support weapons.

the three problems are however, firstly no organic air support - either in terms of battlefield mobility or as 'flying artillery' - and secondly, as has become apparent in recent forays into sandy places - that destroying a third world military apparatus requires not many boots on the ground, but securing territory, even if just to secure your LOC's, requires a staggering number. with the IA doesn't have.

the third problem, is that while the Irish Army has the numbers and the paper formations to provide two NATO standard battle groups, i just don't believe it is actually capable of doing so, even with 6 months warning and it being a 'one off'.

Size=everything

Zimbabwe would destroy our army in a war.

They have tons more troops, air support, lots more tanks, more vehicles, weapons everything.

Ireland couldnt take any country in Europe, Africa, Asia, North America, South America bar possibly Lichenstein, San Marino, Naura, Tuvalu, and Maldives

OS119

RickyHatton wrote: »

Zimbabwe would destroy our army in a war.

They have tons more troops, air support, lots more tanks, more vehicles, weapons everything.

quantity isn't everything - indeed it has been shown decisively to mean very little - particularly if the 'quantity' military has limited tech support for its kit, has officers who can't take initiative for political reasons, doesn't pay its soldiers and who'se political leadership is deeply unpopular.

i have no idea as to exactly what the state of the ZA is, but i'd place my mortgage on it not being a cutting edge tool able to apply massive military force to any location at any time of its choosing.

if we want to play a 'realistic' game where Ireland plays liberator, then Irelands greatest military weaknesses - its fundamental lack of an AirLand doctrine and of force projection capability - become its strengths.

Ireland is incapable of moving force (not having the Land, Sea and Air capabilities required to get 4,000 men and all their equipment, vehicles, fuel, ammunition etc.. to where they need to be), ergo someone else has to do it for Ireland. such assets are only operated by a few nations - NATO countries and Russia - and they will want to protect those assets, they will also not want to be involved in a debacle.

therefore, were Ireland's two theoretical BattleGroups to find themselves on the Zimbabwean border - assuming they hadn't been abducted by aliens - they would have Air Support, and they would have log spt.

personally, i think that two Irish NATO standard Battle Groups (which the IA could certainly provide given the political and military will) would slice through the ZA like it didn't exist, that they would have no problems hitting the regimes centres of gravity, and that they would not face high-intensity warfighting greater than they could cope with.

the IA can actually generate significant firepower at brigade level with its Artillery, Mortar and ATGW forces, in my view enough firepower to quell any force its likely to overcome. if it does meet a larger, harder force than that then that larger force would itselfin deep trouble as its very size and composition leaves it open to significant air attack.

Size=everything

OS119 wrote: »

quantity isn't everything - indeed it has been shown decisively to mean very little - particularly if the 'quantity' military has limited tech support for its kit, has officers who can't take initiative for political reasons, doesn't pay its soldiers and who'se political leadership is deeply unpopular.

i have no idea as to exactly what the state of the ZA is, but i'd place my mortgage on it not being a cutting edge tool able to apply massive military force to any location at any time of its choosing.

if we want to play a 'realistic' game where Ireland plays liberator, then Irelands greatest military weaknesses - its fundamental lack of an AirLand doctrine and of force projection capability - become its strengths.

Ireland is incapable of moving force (not having the Land, Sea and Air capabilities required to get 4,000 men and all their equipment, vehicles, fuel, ammunition etc.. to where they need to be), ergo someone else has to do it for Ireland. such assets are only operated by a few nations - NATO countries and Russia - and they will want to protect those assets, they will also not want to be involved in a debacle.

therefore, were Ireland's two theoretical BattleGroups to find themselves on the Zimbabwean border - assuming they hadn't been abducted by aliens - they would have Air Support, and they would have log spt.

personally, i think that two Irish NATO standard Battle Groups (which the IA could certainly provide given the political and military will) would slice through the ZA like it didn't exist, that they would have no problems hitting the regimes centres of gravity, and that they would not face high-intensity warfighting greater than they could cope with.

the IA can actually generate significant firepower at brigade level with its Artillery, Mortar and ATGW forces, in my view enough firepower to quell any force its likely to overcome. if it does meet a larger, harder force than that then that larger force would itselfin deep trouble as its very size and composition leaves it open to significant air attack.

Some facts about the Zimbabwe

POPULATION
12,382,920

Manpower availiable for Military Service
5,459,935

Manpower fit for military service
2,450,000

Compulsory military service for all aged 15-24

390,580 sq km in size





ARMY

Role
Quantity
Armour



PRC Type 59

MBT

30

PRC Type 69

MBT

10

EE-9 Cascavel

Reconnaissance

80

PRC Type 63

Armoured Personnel Carrier

30

Crocodile

Armoured Personnel Carrier

40

ACMAT

Armoured Personnel Carrier

260




Artillery



PRC Type 63

Towed Artillery (122 mm)

18

PRC Type 54

Towed Artillery (122 mm)

12

PRC Type 63

Multiple Rocket Launcher

18

RM-70

Multiple Rocket Launcher

52

81 mm / 82 mm

Mortar

502

120 mm M43

Mortar

14




Air Defence



ZPU-1/-2/-4; ZU-23; M-1939

Air Defence Guns

215

SA-7

Surface-to-air missile

17





AIR FORCE



Hawk Mk 60/60A

Fighter, ground attack

5

MiG 21

Fighter, ground attack

6

Reims-Cessna 337 Lynx

Reconnaissance

14

SF-260 Genet

Training/ Reconnaissance

22

BN-2

Transport

6

C-212-200

Transport

8

SA-319

Helicopter

24

Mi-35

Helicopter

6

Mi-35P

Helicopter
26
AB-412
Helicopter (Armed)

8

AS-532UL

Helicopter (VIP)

2






Yes I am sure the mighty Irish Defence forces would cut through the ZA like they didn't exist :rolleyes:



Get a grip the Irish Army would be most likely wiped out.

OS119

what makes you think that a) much of that stuff works (or indeed that its crews would hang around), and b) that neither the IA's own systems nor the fast Air Support that would inevitably accompany such an op could nulify that ZA equipment that both still worked and had a crew?

the figures indicate that the ZA has significant artillery strength, but massed artillery (the only artillery that has any impact on the battlespace) both sticks out like the bollocks on a bulldog and is hideously vunerable to air attack. ISTAR will pick it out long before its a danger, and fast air will emoliate it before its first salvo leaves the tubes.

the figures indicate the ZA has an MBT force of around 40 - all in, with no regard to servicability, availability of crews and parts, and no attrition. ever seen what a Javelin - or indeed a 500lb JDAM - will do to an MBT?

ever seen what 4th gen (F-16's, let alone Typhoon or Ralale) fast jets will do to a handfull of Hawks and MIG-21's?

Zimbabwe is a paper tiger, it might look a bit daunting, but then so did Iraq on the 16th Jan 1991 - and everyone knows what happened the day after.

Size=everything

OS119 wrote: »

what makes you think that a) much of that stuff works (or indeed that its crews would hang around), and b) that neither the IA's own systems nor the fast Air Support that would inevitably accompany such an op could nulify that ZA equipment that both still worked and had a crew?

the figures indicate that the ZA has significant artillery strength, but massed artillery (the only artillery that has any impact on the battlespace) both sticks out like the bollocks on a bulldog and is hideously vunerable to air attack. ISTAR will pick it out long before its a danger, and fast air will emoliate it before its first salvo leaves the tubes.

the figures indicate the ZA has an MBT force of around 40 - all in, with no regard to servicability, availability of crews and parts, and no attrition. ever seen what a Javelin - or indeed a 500lb JDAM - will do to an MBT?

ever seen what 4th gen (F-16's, let alone Typhoon or Ralale) fast jets will do to a handfull of Hawks and MIG-21's?

Zimbabwe is a paper tiger, it might look a bit daunting, but then so did Iraq on the 16th Jan 1991 - and everyone knows what happened the day after.

So basically your talking about Irish troops being involved in an invasion along with proper military powers

In that case yes I am sure they would do o.k but then again the Irish assistance would be all but insignificant.

I thought this topic was about Irish troops invading Zimbabwe not a multinational force.

You do understand that Ireland would stand no chance alone in Zimbabwe

purple'n'gold

“ever seen what 4th gen (F-16's, let alone Typhoon or Ralale) fast jets will do to a handfull of Hawks and MIG-21's?”

Fast jets? We don’t even have slow jets. Whose jets are you talking about?

Size=everything

purplengold wrote: »

“ever seen what 4th gen (F-16's, let alone Typhoon or Ralale) fast jets will do to a handfull of Hawks and MIG-21's?”

Fast jets? We don’t even have slow jets. Whose jets are you talking about?

I think hes referring to Ireland being involved in an invasion with other nations

but that kind of defeats the purpose of this topic the question was

Can Ireland take Zimbabwe in a war

and the answer is

HELL NO.

Grizzly 45

Possibly the only way would be an unconventional SF strike.In which we somhow manage to pre dispisition ourselves in ZA and close enough to all main military garrisions,airfields,depots and strategic military and civvie targets,and that on a Go order all places are hit all at once.
Or that two main barracks where most of the armour and arty is stationed and we requsition the ZA equipment for our own use to take over the other garrisions and targets.Some sort of raid ala the SAS attack on Port Stanley airfield in the Falklands war to destroy or immobilise whatever airforce there is would be needed as well.
HOW,we do this of course is another lifetimes work,with WHAT exactly and WHY we would be botherd in the first place is another story.

Realistically we could just about retake the Aran islands if they declared independance.:D

First of all how the hell would we get there?
Just fly the troops via aer lingus in?

Grizzly 45

Nah! Ryanair!Closest you can get to a military jump plane without actually having to jump.:D

Riddle101

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Possibly the only way would be an unconventional SF strike.In which we somhow manage to pre dispisition ourselves in ZA and close enough to all main military garrisions,airfields,depots and strategic military and civvie targets,and that on a Go order all places are hit all at once.
Or that two main barracks where most of the armour and arty is stationed and we requsition the ZA equipment for our own use to take over the other garrisions and targets.Some sort of raid ala the SAS attack on Port Stanley airfield in the Falklands war to destroy or immobilise whatever airforce there is would be needed as well.
HOW,we do this of course is another lifetimes work,with WHAT exactly and WHY we would be botherd in the first place is another story.

Realistically we could just about retake the Aran islands if they declared independance.:D

Now i know this might get a lot of bashing and i'm just putting it out thaere but maybe the ARW could do something like the SAS and sneak in. Now i know they're not the SAS or the Navy Seals but they are supposed to be called Special Ops men, that's why they're always the first to go into battle and because Ireland sent them to Chad first, realistically could we take the rebels in Chad, aren't we endangering the soldiers we sent there, i mean 50 ARW sent in (before the PDF arrive) against hundreds if not thousands would be suciside unless Ireland was completely confident the ARW know what they're doing, still so i'm just putting it out there and it's a long shot but if you want someone to get between the lines then they're the best we have

Size=everything

Riddle101 wrote: »

Now i know this might get a lot of bashing and i'm just putting it out thaere but maybe the ARW could do something like the SAS and sneak in. Now i know they're not the SAS or the Navy Seals but they are supposed to be called Special Ops men, that's why they're always the first to go into battle and because Ireland sent them to Chad first, realistically could we take the rebels in Chad, aren't we endangering the soldiers we sent there, i mean 50 ARW sent in (before the PDF arrive) against hundreds if not thousands would be suciside unless Ireland was completely confident the ARW know what they're doing, still so i'm just putting it out there and it's a long shot but if you want someone to get between the lines then they're the best we have

Special Forces are there to disrupt they won't win a war for you merely speed up the result.

In chad the ARW are there along with battalions of foreign troops so it's not like its just them against the entire Chad rebels and besides the chad rebels aren't really concentrated on the peace keeping forces anyways.

The Irish ARW could not defeat the entire ZA. Lets forget about our pride for just one moment and think logically.

This is not a fantasy world where Ireland and it's elite forces can bring down governments in the blink of an eye the truth is the ZA would slaughter us.

Face the facts. We're a small country its o.k and it's to be expected.......

Then again Switzerland isn't a particularly big country and it has a top of the range army. Oh well

Cato

RickyHatton wrote: »

Lets forget about our pride for just one moment and think logically.

This is not a fantasy world where Ireland and it's elite forces can bring down governments in the blink of an eye .

Face the facts. We're a small country its o.k and it's to be expected.......

this is the walter mitty forum!

Riddle101

RickyHatton wrote: »

Special Forces are there to disrupt they won't win a war for you merely speed up the result.

In chad the ARW are there along with battalions of foreign troops so it's not like its just them against the entire Chad rebels and besides the chad rebels aren't really concentrated on the peace keeping forces anyways.

The Irish ARW could not defeat the entire ZA. Lets forget about our pride for just one moment and think logically.

This is not a fantasy world where Ireland and it's elite forces can bring down governments in the blink of an eye the truth is the ZA would slaughter us.

Face the facts. We're a small country its o.k and it's to be expected.......

Then again Switzerland isn't a particularly big country and it has a top of the range army. Oh well

I'm just saying they could proberly hinter the enemy so the PDF can move in, take out communications and Radar in a region some the enemy will be blind and deaf

OS119

RickyHatton wrote: »

I think hes referring to Ireland being involved in an invasion with other nations

but that kind of defeats the purpose of this topic the question was

Can Ireland take Zimbabwe in a war

and the answer is

HELL NO.

yes, you did get it right.

the answer to 'who would win in a war between Ireland and Zimbabwe if no multinational assistance was available?' would of course be:


no one, as neither side has any of its own projection cabability and therefore both Irish and ZA artillery would fall about 6,000 miles short of their targets.

now, if you wish to have both forces in the same hemisphere you have to have assistance from someone else to get you there - and given that Ryanair don't allow Artillery on their aircraft - that assistance can only come from NATO countries, and those NATO countries will wish to protect those assets (C-17's don't come cheap), nor will they wish to assist an operation that then falls flat on its face for a lack of CAS, so yes, in any but the most ridiculous circumstance (one involving teleportation), there would be high-end fast jets in attendence.

Riddle101

OS119 wrote: »

yes, you did get it right.

the answer to 'who would win in a war between Ireland and Zimbabwe if no multinational assistance was available?' would of course be:


no one, as neither side has any of its own projection cabability and therefore both Irish and ZA artillery would fall about 6,000 miles short of their targets.

now, if you wish to have both forces in the same hemisphere you have to have assistance from someone else to get you there - and given that Ryanair don't allow Artillery on their aircraft - that assistance can only come from NATO countries, and those NATO countries will wish to protect those assets (C-17's don't come cheap), nor will they wish to assist an operation that then falls flat on its face for a lack of CAS, so yes, in any but the most ridiculous circumstance (one involving teleportation), there would be high-end fast jets in attendence.

That's strange considering USA constantly pump countries they support with weapons and aid all the time. Didn't they chuck alot of Helicopters off their Aircraft Carriers when they were leaving South Vietnam to the mercy of the North Vietnamiese and the Vietminh, that's some protecting of assests they did then

OS119

Riddle101 wrote: »

That's strange considering USA constantly pump countries they support with weapons and aid all the time. Didn't they chuck alot of Helicopters off their Aircraft Carriers when they were leaving South Vietnam to the mercy of the North Vietnamiese and the Vietminh, that's some protecting of assests they did then

you're comparing a helicopter (a cheap asset got rid of to make way for a much more valuable asset - people) with a C-17 with USAF markings, flown by USAF crews in a glare of publicity on every 24hr news channel in the world?

are you actually saying, because i want to get this right, that whichever state were to provide airlift support to an Irish 'Taskforce' would not feel that those assets could be in some danger of retaliatory action and would not therefore provide security, both on the ground and in the air, and that such a state would not, despite having pictures of its transport arcraft disgorging an Irish BattleGroup beemed all over the world, have any real preference as to which side won in the subsequent battle?

'coz i just want to be sure what kind of lunacy you're talking.

kowloon

If we could trick Zimbabwe into attacking us they would most likely be killed by the various micro-organisms and virii that we as Irish have built up a resistance to. Then, after a few days, we can climb out of our shelters and begin the process of rebuilding all our major landmarks, such as the spike.
All our major statues will be beheaded.

Size=everything

OS119 wrote: »

yes, you did get it right.

the answer to 'who would win in a war between Ireland and Zimbabwe if no multinational assistance was available?' would of course be:


no one, as neither side has any of its own projection cabability and therefore both Irish and ZA artillery would fall about 6,000 miles short of their targets.

now, if you wish to have both forces in the same hemisphere you have to have assistance from someone else to get you there - and given that Ryanair don't allow Artillery on their aircraft - that assistance can only come from NATO countries, and those NATO countries will wish to protect those assets (C-17's don't come cheap), nor will they wish to assist an operation that then falls flat on its face for a lack of CAS, so yes, in any but the most ridiculous circumstance (one involving teleportation), there would be high-end fast jets in attendence.

So lets say we are able to transport our equipment and personnel and South Africa agree to let us use their country as a base to attack from are you saying that Ireland could launch a successful invasion of Zimbabwe?

Because if you are you are delusional. The Irish Army would be slaughtered. No offence but other than the ARW the Irish Army is a glorified arm of the police force for extreme situations. There really is no need for an army in this country as it is set up and run currently. its not like they would be able to defend us from any invaders anyways. If we had an army like Switzerland, Denmark or Austria who can all hold their own despite having small populations then I would disagree but we dont.

Riddle101

RickyHatton wrote: »

So lets say we are able to transport our equipment and personnel and South Africa agree to let us use their country as a base to attack from are you saying that Ireland could launch a successful invasion of Zimbabwe?

Because if you are you are delusional. The Irish Army would be slaughtered. No offence but other than the ARW the Irish Army is a glorified arm of the police force for extreme situations. There really is no need for an army in this country as it is set up and run currently. its not like they would be able to defend us from any invaders anyways. If we had an army like Switzerland, Denmark or Austria who can all hold their own despite having small populations then I would disagree but we dont.

Glorified Police Force? When have you seen the Army work as a police force, and how could you possibly judge the army, have you even seen what they're capable of, i've done their tactics and Patrols and can honestly tell you that they're well able for the danger, it's not like the Irish army have no means of fighting, we have the kit, we have radar, anti air, anti tank, transport, weapons and ammuntion. And we're better trained then the the Zimbabawe army anyway, plus Zimbabwe is un tatters and it's economy is destroyed, how exactly is Zimbabwe going to support all the costs for the war, ask for aid? Like i said it's a long shot but the PDF is greatly underrated.

Size=everything

Riddle101 wrote: »

Glorified Police Force? When have you seen the Army work as a police force, and how could you possibly judge the army, have you even seen what they're capable of, i've done their tactics and Patrols and can honestly tell you that they're well able for the danger, it's not like the Irish army have no means of fighting, we have the kit, we have radar, anti air, anti tank, transport, weapons and ammuntion. And we're better trained then the the Zimbabawe army anyway, plus Zimbabwe is un tatters and it's economy is destroyed, how exactly is Zimbabwe going to support all the costs for the war, ask for aid? Like i said it's a long shot but the PDF is greatly underrated.

As in their only real use would be for crowd control in very extreme situations and relief in natural disasters.

Though they did a good job during the bin strike must say!

But seriously I know people in the Irish army. They are generally unfit, say they only get to practicing live fire exercises once a year, aren't exactly the type you would think would stay around in a battle and are generally immature. We have some good kit in very, very miminimal amounts and generally a lot of it is outdated. The Irish army isn't underrated if anything it is overrated because of an admitedly very good ARW but outside of that it is a piss poor army.

Sorry just being honest!


Zimbabwe had a massive shipment of arms heading for it's country recently, I doubt the Irish army would even have 1/1000th of that amount of equipment. I seriously can't believe you are even entertaining the idea. The Irish army has no experience in confrontational conventional warfare a small minority of it's troops have done relatively peaceful peacekeeping along with other armies meanwhile Zimbabwe have had something like 40,000 of its troops experienced in intense conflict in Congo, has an airforce with actual fighter jets (even if they are outdated migs are you saying the Irish Amry's CESSNA is a match??), have more anti-tanks than we have guns, its amazing that a country like Zimbabwe is actually BETTER EQUIPPED than our army!!!!! shows what a joke our army really is

Oh and saying stuff like we have radar,weapons, ammuniton etc. lol well done so does every army in the entire world!! pretty standard stuff there mate

honestly you are really delusional even entertaining the idea!!!!!

OS119

ok, so it may well be true to say that compared to a regular infantry soldier from the US, UK or France, the average Irish soldier is less well trained (in that he doesn't get to use the toys as often, nor in such demanding and realistic exercises), he is much less experienced (there isn't a UK infantry Bn that hasn't done 3 tours in Iraq or A'stan in the last 6 years and most have done 4), and he isn't as fit - peacetime fitness will never equate to wartime 'hardness' regardless of how many breezeblocks you stick in your bergen.

but. he is almost certainly better trained than your average ZA soldier, and his kit - and i'm thinking particularly of Javelin ATGW - when married up with the capabilities that others would have to provide purely in order to get him to Zimbabwe, would give him a massive capability advantage over not just the individual ZA soldier, but the defensive capability of the Z military - thats not to say he couldn't do with a 'parachute' of extra kit - Javelin and 105mm LG artillery being the obvious examples.

however, if strategic airlift to a host country, Logistical back-up, tactical and battlefield airlift (C-130, CH-47 etc...) ISTAR (UAV, GR4A, AWACS etc...) and Counter-Air, interdiction and CAS were provided by other states - and all of these things are regularly provided by states to other states as 'enabling modules' - then with a decent work up i genuinely don't think that a 2 Mech Inf BattleGroup Irish Bde would face serious obsticles in removing the current Zimbabwean regime from power.

Fratton Fred

OS119 wrote: »

however, if strategic airlift to a host country, Logistical back-up, tactical and battlefield airlift (C-130, CH-47 etc...) ISTAR (UAV, GR4A, AWACS etc...) and Counter-Air, interdiction and CAS were provided by other states - and all of these things are regularly provided by states to other states as 'enabling modules' - then with a decent work up i genuinely don't think that a 2 Mech Inf BattleGroup Irish Bde would face serious obsticles in removing the current Zimbabwean regime from power.

they could be called the coalition of the willing.

donaghs

Since this is Walter Mitty, I'll give this Frederick Forsyth secenario a shot.

How about something like this? Fly in the ARW on a commandeered Aer Lingus flight(s) to South Africa. Make an "emergency" stop in Zimbabwe. Time this when its known where Mugabwe is, e.g. the Presidential Palace. Take out Mugabwe in his Palace, and an other ZanuPF big-wigs. Seize anything else that's possible (e.g. TV & Radio station) with the limited numbers of men and equipment available. Then announce a coup with MDC people?

I don't think South Africa would allow this to happen though.

Tenger

Riddle101 wrote: »

Well to be honest the US soldiers didn't go into Iraq in 1991, they just drove the Iraqi forces back behind the border of Kuwait and then left.

Actually they did enter Iraq. The Western element of the Allied force entered Iraq,charged north then turned East to trap the Rep Guard units trying to leave Kuwait. (This consisted of the Franch,Uk and most of the US troops) The Arab forces were mainly tasked with liberating Kuwait.
The 101st Air Assault had fuel dumps and attack helicopters roaming through Southern Iraq. The pictures you may have seen of vast numbers of tanks streaming through the desert were this flanking force. (Some elements actually got as far as Nasiriyah in the Tigris/Euphrates{not sure which} valley and were shocked at seeing a lush green landscape when they were expecting desert.)

The 4th Infantry division had originally been planned for insertion through Turkey into Northern Iraq but the Turks refused permission.And don't forget the small groups of Special Forces in the Western desert.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:DesertStormMap_v2.svg

Riddle101 wrote: »

.......people actually wanted USA to go into Iraq ........ the Iraqi people all rebelled against Saddam in the hopes that the US would come in a take him out of power, however the US ..............left the Iraqi people to their fate who were brutally murdered by Saddam and the rebellion brutally quarreled. Then when the US came into Iraq in 2003, the Iraqi people didn't want to know the US anymore for allowing their people to get slaugtered.

True here. The US/UK forces wanted to push to Bagdad and could easily have done so (militarily speaking) However Bush did not want to overstep his UN mandate (shame the son didn't learn a lesson here) and the threat of possible chemical/biological retaliation was very high at the time.

The Arab nation probably would have been unhappy with a sudden US takeover of Iraq. In fact the US showed the Saudis sat pics of Iraqi tanks on the Saudi-Kuwait border to try to get permission to deploy there. They apparently had airbrushed out the defensive positions surrounding the tanks to make the Saudis feel threantened.

Riddle101 wrote: »

Anyway i'm sure if the UK and the US proveded us with Tanks and Air vechiles we'd be able to fight Zimbawe, but would it be too much to ask for aid from out so called allies or should we try alone

If we got tanks and aircraft from others then it wouldn't really be Ireland V Zimbabwe. We might get disqualified.

return guide

If we got tanks and aircraft from others then it wouldn't really be Ireland V Zimbabwe. We might get disqualified




nice one

Fratton Fred

Of course the UK and US would be only too willing to help out Ireland, all the help Ireland gives towards NATO etc

meathstevie

An old fashioned Afrikaner Boer Commando with modern equipment would stand a better chance.

CHD

The scouts are better equiped than the irish army

Sod'o swords

Oh we'd be arse raped sideways, like to the max.

Zambia

Actually Ireland if the whole transport thing was sorted would kick the living crap out of the ZA.

Here are my reasons

1: African armies like to be on the winning side of a fire fight. If the IA could start landing some well aimed rounds they will turn tail and flee. it actually helps the IA not to have air support , there would be so many 7.62 AK rounds from full auto blind fire up there it would be most dangerous.

2: Plus your average ZA trooper would just see white men with Guns think the british where coming for mugabe and run. ireland is not really well known if the sub continent.

3: I severly doubt those hawks can fly. Anyway the ARW would be tasked with disabling them I am sure they could manage that. Simply letting the air out of the tyres will f**k them.

4: The ZA are bullies , bullies make bad stand up fighters.

5: The IA have been chomping at the bit for a decent RUCK for years plus they would be no retreat option.

6; Communications are terrible in that region full mobilistion would take them ages.

7: With a good plan and Surprise it is well possible to invade and hold Zim for a few days. but the fun part would be trying to keep it ....

However we are so far into the walter mitty realms here its unreal.

Victor

Riddle101 wrote: »

Can Ireland take Zimbawe in a war?

There is no way we could take it.

Its too heavy. :pac:

Local-womanizer

We'll never know what will happen untill we try!:D

kowloon

It's settled then. RELEASE THE MONGOOSE!