English paper one composition

armbruster

To put it bluntly, I'm awful at short stories, I can never write a decent personal essay and I find it a chore to even attempt a speech. Our teacher gave us some sample A1 compositions that she got at an in service meeting. Some of them blew me away.

This set me thinking: what if I could learn off a really good short story written by someone unknown (say online for example), learn it off and slot it into the "prompted by one or more of the images in text 3"?

Cokehead Mother

If you're not good enough for an A, but want one anyway, then that'd be the way to go.

Ino112

That's an extremely sneaky way of going about getting a high grade. I know personally for me, if I did go ahead with your plan, got my A1, I'd be very, very didstraught at myself for cheating, and yes, that is what it is.

Copying someone's work without their permission for a state exam is low. Not only could you get caught for doing this (and believe me it could happen), but chances are you may forget important pieces of the story which may hamper the grade more than if you just wrote on your own.

It's a shame morals don't particularly fall into question near the L.C..

Mark200

Usually the key with short stories is the subtle imagery, and the great use of vocabulary. You don't have to use long words, just appropiate words to successfully get what you want across. It's not the story line really.

It would be very difficult to remember off by heart a short story that you have not written, and to remember where all these things are used and how they are used.

My English teacher is an examiner and he constantly says that the majority of people who choose to do a short story shouldn't have. Everyone always sees it as the easier option, but in reality it's not because you only have an hour and a half (or something like that) to not only write it, but to come up with a story line and develop the characters. Obviously you can do some of this before the exam, but it's still very difficult.


If you aren't good at writing a short story, there are plenty of other options there. Try writing an article or personal essay from the past papers, give it up to your teacher and ask her to grade it.

blue-army

Ino112 wrote: »

Not only could you get caught for doing this (and believe me it could happen

In all fairness there is no way that you would get caught. Unless you copied the whole essay, word for word and the corrector had maybe written the piece online, or in a book.
Even if you only changed a few words the examiners would find it hard to prove that it's definately plagiarism.

declan_lgs

armbruster wrote: »

Our teacher gave us some sample A1 compositions that she got at an in service meeting. Some of them blew me away.

Can't you find one that you can adapt well-enough into all the past papers? Then learn it and write the essays, get them graded, and you SHOULD be prepared enough..

Then send it to me Honestly, this is exactly what I want to do, though I would intend to ask for permission.

Peleus

armbruster wrote: »

To put it bluntly, I'm awful at short stories, I can never write a decent personal essay and I find it a chore to even attempt a speech. Our teacher gave us some sample A1 compositions that she got at an in service meeting. Some of them blew me away.

This set me thinking: what if I could learn off a really good short story written by someone unknown (say online for example), learn it off and slot it into the "prompted by one or more of the images in text 3"?

I wouldnt dare. I heard that examiners know so many short stories and if they smell a learnt off eassy of story they'll give you a D for it, no matter how good it is. My teacher always tells us to never learn of paragraphs for english. If you learn them off, the examiner might spot a sentance/paragraph that doesnt fit in with the language/syntax of the rest of your answer and it will give you away. Exmainers hate learnt off work.

Best advice for compostitions: choose the personal essay. Prepare a few short essays on topics like, my childhood, family life, being a teenagers. Or at least know what you would write about those topics. Then, in the exam, write the personal essay and just make it personal and reflective and about somthing you like or find interesting.

I've got one essay done on my childhood. It's just about growing up and the freedom i had as a kid etc etc...

So don't learn off essays and don't try to be funny, don't use slang/abbreviations, and never write the light-hearted article for your favorite magazine. Cos you'd have to be very good to produce a good interesting peice of writing out of that.

alan4cult

Peleus wrote: »

I wouldnt dare. I heard that examiners know so many short stories and if they smell a learnt off eassy of story they'll give you a D for it, no matter how good it is. My teacher always tells us to never learn of paragraphs for english. If you learn them off, the examiner might spot a sentance/paragraph that doesnt fit in with the language/syntax of the rest of your answer and it will give you away. Exmainers hate learnt off work.

Best advice for compostitions: choose the personal essay. Prepare a few short essays on topics like, my childhood, family life, being a teenagers. Or at least know what you would write about those topics. Then, in the exam, write the personal essay and just make it personal and reflective and about somthing you like or find interesting.

I've got one essay done on my childhood. It's just about growing up and the freedom i had as a kid etc etc...

So don't learn off essays and don't try to be funny, don't use slang/abbreviations, and never write the light-hearted article for your favorite magazine. Cos you'd have to be very good to produce a good interesting peice of writing out of that.

+1 Stale essays never work! The personal element gets you the high marks.

Imallin9989

I think people have it all wrong if u have learnt off an A1 essay and write it in the exam there is absolutely nothing wrong with it... An A1 is an A1 learnt off or not...

gaybitch

Peleus wrote: »

So don't learn off essays and don't try to be funny, .

Don't try to be funny? What planet are you on, Jason?

Mark200

gaybitch wrote: »

Don't try to be funny? What planet are you on, Jason?

Yeah I was just about to say that.

Examiners are people. And if you make them laugh, or amuse them, then they'll enjoy the article. Just like a real article. If you can get your point across while making someone laugh, then it's even better.

Peleus

gaybitch wrote: »

Don't try to be funny? What planet are you on, Jason?

because gaybitch, and mark, usually when you write something that you think is funny, when you read back over it, its not funny at all. If you try to make it funny, you're either gonna look like an idiot, or you'll get a nun examiner with no sense of humour. thats what my english teacher tells me anyway.

BarryDoodles

You will 'c' the short story (SECTION 3) and given that roughly 60% of the country will get a 'c' question a (Section 1) its not exactly a great start. Remember paper 1 is 50% of your english grade.A discursive essay usually attains high grades if you follow the structure correctly. An essay on changing the world is tipped for this year so perhaps learn one of those of?
Just remember its not what you do its what grade you get. I strongly disagree with anyone that states learning something of to get an a grade is wrong.

Peleus

BarryDoodles wrote: »

I strongly disagree with anyone that states learning something of to get an a grade is wrong.

nobody said its wrong. I'm preparing an essay, maybe two, on life etc... whcih can be moulded into anything. But im not learning off an essay word for word or anything else word for word cos thats just stupid. It's better to know a good essay than to have learnt off a good essay.

BarryDoodles

Peleus wrote: »

It's better to know a good essay than to have learnt off a good essay.

lawl

I'm not going to argue with you, it is a points race after all.
actually maybe i will, The leaving cert comes down to knowledge and time being able to write a selected essay quickly makes the most of both time and knowledge. There is a special skill to paper 1 and the lack of this skill amoung students is the reason why 89% do not achieve the a grade in english.I've learnt of the structures for a discursive essay aswell as generic leader sentences and links.I can apply this to any selected topic while using rethorical qustions to increase the flow. Students aiming for very high grades should not have to think during an exam it should be just auto-pilot, cold and clinical.

Peleus

Imallin9989 wrote: »

I think people have it all wrong if u have learnt off an A1 essay and write it in the exam there is absolutely nothing wrong with it... An A1 is an A1 learnt off or not...

The A1 essay you learn off is only gonna get an A1 if its relative to the topic. So you're gonna have to change it around to get the A1. Usually when students who have learnt off essays try to change their learnt-off essays to make it relative, they make it so obvious they've learnt off stuff.

JC 2K3

BarryDoodles wrote: »

I strongly disagree with anyone that states learning something of to get an a grade is wrong.

Of course it is.

I wrote a short story in my LC and got 85/100 for it. I had written something similar before, but I had to adapt it to the picture on the page, and it was 100% the product of my own imagination.

Now, is that not worth more than someone who learned off a load of essays other people wrote, regurgitated one that fit a topic on their LC and got 90/100 for it?

And think about it on a broader scale, in terms of CAO points. Take medicine as an example of a course with a high points requirement. Would you like to be treated by a doctor who is essentially a dimwit with no intelligence besides the ability to learn off vast quantities of information, or someone with a high level of intelligence in a variety of areas, who understood what was going on in subjects like English, Maths, Science etc. and got high points accordingly?

Imallin9989

Peleus wrote: »

The A1 essay you learn off is only gonna get an A1 if its relative to the topic. So you're gonna have to change it around to get the A1. Usually when students who have learnt off essays try to change their learnt-off essays to make it relative, they make it so obvious they've learnt off stuff.

If u read the marking scheme says u have to write it in a "implicit" way related to what ever ur writting about so its extremely easy, the best teachers encourage this also it doesn have to be copied i have made mine up my self have been working on it all year .. I am not a LAZY person as someone stupidly said.. i need points my english is no where near a1 standard so why the hell shouldnt I prepare one

Imallin9989

JC 2K3 wrote: »

Of course it is.

I wrote a short story in my LC and got 85/100 for it. I had written something similar before, but I had to adapt it to the picture on the page, and it was 100% the product of my own imagination.

Now, is that not worth more than someone who learned off a load of essays other people wrote, regurgitated one that fit a topic on their LC and got 90/100 for it?

And think about it on a broader scale, in terms of CAO points. Take medicine as an example of a course with a high points requirement. Would you like to be treated by a doctor who is essentially a dimwit with no intelligence besides the ability to learn off vast quantities of information, or someone with a high level of intelligence in a variety of areas, who understood what was going on in subjects like English, Maths, Science etc. and got high points accordingly?

Do u not understand, yes u can get 85% because ur good at english.. learning off stuff is what the leaving cert is about.. its a points system.. it really doesnt make sense what u are saying:mad::mad:

Cokehead Mother

Imallin9989 wrote: »

the best teachers encourage this also

The best teachers are the ones who teach their students how to write good English themselves, surely?

Randomness

agh jeez not this learning off stuff again.

someday you will learn.

JC 2K3

Imallin9989 wrote: »

Do u not understand, yes u can get 85% because ur good at english.. learning off stuff is what the leaving cert is about.. its a points system.. it really doesnt make sense what u are saying:mad::mad:

What doesn't make sense? I can clarify if you want.

Could you tell me where exactly I can find something officially saying that the LC is just about "learning off stuff". Some people might find that they can get a higher grade by learning off something someone else wrote as opposed to working on their ability to write good answers to questions, but it doesn't make that kind of thing right, and it certainly doesn't mean the LC is all about that kind of thing.

It is a points system, yes. Those who are good at English should get the highest points for English and those not so good should get lower points. If someone who isn't very good at English learns off essays etc., regurgitates them in the exam and gets higher points than someone better than them at writing English, then the system is skewed and is unfair on the person who is genuinely good at English.

Imallin wrote:

i need points

Ok, so do many other people, many of whom are genuinely good at English.

Imallin wrote:

my english is no where near a1 standard

Then you don't deserve an A1 in English.

Imallin9989

JC 2K3 wrote: »

What doesn't make sense? I can clarify if you want.

Could you tell me where exactly I can find something officially saying that the LC is just about "learning off stuff". Some people might find that they can get a higher grade by learning off something someone else wrote as opposed to working on their ability to write good answers to questions, but it doesn't make that kind of thing right, and it certainly doesn't mean the LC is all about that kind of thing.

It is a points system, yes. Those who are good at English should get the highest points for English and those not so good should get lower points. If someone who isn't very good at English learns off essays etc., regurgitates them in the exam and gets higher points than someone better than them at writing English, then the system is skewed and is unfair on the person who is genuinely good at English.


Ok, so do many other people, many of whom are genuinely good at English.


Then you don't deserve an A1 in English.

Man, It's a points race everyone needs points therefore i am not going to go into an exam unprepared when i know i need high grades u are most certaintly not making sense at all. Im naturally **** a biology i learnt the book inside out.., im not now. The best english students should get the best marks but also people who are **** and prepared to work there ass off should get redults too.. Your argument does NOT MAKE SENSE:D:D

Cokehead Mother

You could have achieved an A1 standard of English through hard work though. Plagiarism is baaaaad.

Imallin9989

its not plagerism at all.. i wrote out the short story and got it graded!!

JC 2K3

Imallin9989 wrote: »

Man, It's a points race everyone needs points therefore i am not going to go into an exam unprepared when i know i need high grades u are most certaintly not making sense at all. Im naturally **** a biology i learnt the book inside out.., im not now. The best english students should get the best marks but also people who are **** and prepared to work there ass off should get redults too.. Your argument does NOT MAKE SENSE:D:D

Wow, you have to be one of the more retarded posters I've ever had the displeasure of seeing on here.

Cokehead Mother

Imallin9989 wrote: »

its not plagerism at all.. i wrote out the short story and got it graded!!

Ah, sorry. I got you confused with the OP. I don't see why you think you can't write something new on the day though. They're not expecting anything unique or interesting from 17 year olds. You've lots of time to write 4/5 A4 pages. Why don't you think you can get an A1 the honest way if you're so sure of your ability to "work your ass off"?

Randomness

Imallin9989 wrote: »

Im naturally **** a biology i learnt the book inside out.., im not now.

hang on a minute, surely if in one's own words one is naturally **** at something and then by learning off a book they consider themselves no longer naturally **** that is a contradiction??

if your naturally ****, your naturally ****.

however i disagree that learning off a book disqualifies this point.

fair play for attacking something you find yourself not the best at though. i'm sure that's difficult and in that instance i can understand why someone might learn stuff off for the leaving cert, but that's biology, facts, figuers and diagrams. i can't understand how someone could learn of their own opinion written at a particular moment in time though (i.e english) that's just plain wrong.

cartman444

JC 2K3 wrote: »

Wow, you have to be one of the more retarded posters I've ever had the displeasure of seeing on here.

what are you talking about? some people have s**t teachers who just expect you to basically do the course yourself. take for example my teacher who never gives us homework(less than 10 homeworks in 2 years), takes weeks to correct them and doesnt even grade them just puts ticks and x's through your work!!!

im grand at all the other subjects and im not going to miss out on my course just cause of 1 stupid teacher!!!

JC 2K3

cartman444 wrote: »

what are you talking about? some people have s**t teachers who just expect you to basically do the course yourself. take for example my teacher who never gives us homework(less than 10 homeworks in 2 years), takes weeks to correct them and doesnt even grade them just puts ticks and x's through your work!!!

im grand at all the other subjects and im not going to miss out on my course just cause of 1 stupid teacher!!!

wtf???

How is God's name has anything you've just written there relate, even slightly, to the post you quoted????

Cokehead Mother

cartman444 wrote: »

what are you talking about? some people have s**t teachers who just expect you to basically do the course yourself. take for example my teacher who never gives us homework(less than 10 homeworks in 2 years), takes weeks to correct them and doesnt even grade them just puts ticks and x's through your work!!!

im grand at all the other subjects and im not going to miss out on my course just cause of 1 stupid teacher!!!

Most people have one or more s**t teachers but you just have to take responsibility for your education in that subject yourself and deal with it.

Imallin9989

JC 2K3 wrote: »

Wow, you have to be one of the more retarded posters I've ever had the displeasure of seeing on here.

Thanks mate.. And your a knob

JC 2K3

\o/

Imallin9989

You call me retared?? what are you on about

cartman444

JC 2K3 wrote: »

wtf???

How is God's name has anything you've just written there relate, even slightly, to the post you quoted????

because I'll be forced to learn off essays since my teacher is so s**t!!!

and according to you this is wrong is it??

Imallin9989

Randomness wrote: »

hang on a minute, surely if in one's own words one is naturally **** at something and then by learning off a book they consider themselves no longer naturally **** that is a contradiction??

if your naturally ****, your naturally ****.

however i disagree that learning off a book disqualifies this point.

fair play for attacking something you find yourself not the best at though. i'm sure that's difficult and in that instance i can understand why someone might learn stuff off for the leaving cert, but that's biology, facts, figuers and diagrams. i can't understand how someone could learn of their own opinion written at a particular moment in time though (i.e english) that's just plain wrong.

lol ok dont get hrny over it good man

Imallin9989

cartman444 wrote: »

because I'll be forced to learn off essays since my teacher is so s**t!!!

and according to you this is wrong is it??

exactly!!!

Cokehead Mother

cartman444 wrote: »

because I'll be forced to learn off essays since my teacher is so s**t!!!

and according to you this is wrong is it??

You could try reading newspapers, novels etc.

Being able to write is an important skill to have.

Randomness

i can't believe i was just about to come back on here and tell everyone to take a step back cos in fairness no one really knows what they are arguing over anymore.

but then there was this.... wtf?

Imallin9989 wrote: »

lol ok dont get hrny over it good man

cartman444

Cokehead Mother wrote: »

You could try reading newspapers, novels etc.

Being able to write is an important skill to have.

I know is but there is no point because:

1.My teacher doesnt grade it or comment on it even if you ask her so you can never tell if its bad or good.
2.Its impossible to motivate yourself to write an essay that will not be corrected or graded and you get no incentive to work harder.
3.Its a bit to late now in fairness!

Peleus

guys, learn stuff off if you want. It's not morally wrong to learn off your own stuff. I think you have to have some of your own essays in your head before you go in and see if you can mould them to the topic in the exam. It's nearly impossible to make up a story/personal essay on the day.

But, you shouldn't learn off essays word for word cos its so hard to change it around in the exam. You might end up writing an answer thats not relative to the question or just making a complete mess of your answer.
And don't learn off someone else's work. You could get caught, its dodgy, it's awkward and its wrong.

Peleus

cartman444 wrote: »

Its impossible to motivate yourself to write an essay that will not be corrected or graded do you get no incentive to work harder.

All you have to do is write one general essay on something broad, like life/childhood and make it work in the exam. I don't see why you would learn off someone else's essay. It's not personal, there'll be no feeling to it and you'll probably end up forgetting half of it and have no idea what to write.

It's not wrong IMO because if you can learn off an essay word for word and write it out in an exam, changing it to be relative to the question, and still keep it at A1 standard, then you deserve an A1. Chances are you won't be able to do that though.

Peleus

Randomness wrote: »

i can't believe i was just about to come back on here and tell everyone to take a step back cos in fairness no one really knows what they are arguing over anymore.

but then there was this.... wtf?

Imallin9989 wrote:

lol ok dont get hrny over it good man

I know! What the hell was that about?

Cokehead Mother

Peleus wrote: »

It's nearly impossible to make up a story/personal essay on the day.

No it isn't. If Higher Level English students seriously can't improvise a short essay in well over an hour then there is something very wrong with the way the subject is taught. :eek:

I really doubt that's true though.

BarryDoodles

JC 2K3 wrote: »

Of course it is.

I wrote a short story in my LC and got 85/100 for it. I had written something similar before, but I had to adapt it to the picture on the page, and it was 100% the product of my own imagination.

Now, is that not worth more than someone who learned off a load of essays other people wrote, regurgitated one that fit a topic on their LC and got 90/100 for it?

And think about it on a broader scale, in terms of CAO points. Take medicine as an example of a course with a high points requirement. Would you like to be treated by a doctor who is essentially a dimwit with no intelligence besides the ability to learn off vast quantities of information, or someone with a high level of intelligence in a variety of areas, who understood what was going on in subjects like English, Maths, Science etc. and got high points accordingly?

there are exams in college you have to pass.If he does have "the ability to learn off vast quantities of information" whats to say he cannot treat you?
The leaving cert. is just a college entrance exam yes? so i would suggest that you "think about it on a broader scale.

gaybitch

I always improvise, and this sounds really bent, sorry in advance, but I always get As. But some people need to prepare a topic, and that's grand, but I find that approach harder. I prefer improvising. It's all personal.

And the point about learning off someone else's story is that it's not personal, and if I got an A1 in English with someone else's short story, I would feel really awful. The guilt and stuff. It'd be awwwwful.



Whatever essay you do, do a little plan before hand, and know how you're going to end it. Then you should be fine. If you don't have an easily-inspired imagination, have a rough essay you've done in class or at home before and try and use its story arc to fit the question.

Don't copy, it's just weird. Only oddballs copy.

smiles302

BarryDoodles wrote: »

You will 'c' the short story (SECTION 3) and given that roughly 60% of the country will get a 'c' question a (Section 1) its not exactly a great start. Remember paper 1 is 50% of your english grade.A discursive essay usually attains high grades if you follow the structure correctly. An essay on changing the world is tipped for this year so perhaps learn one of those of?
Just remember its not what you do its what grade you get. I strongly disagree with anyone that states learning something of to get an a grade is wrong.

:O ooooo how do you know an essay is tipped?!? If "changing the world" was the essay I would love it sooo much! I have one of those written!

Parsley

Imallin9989 wrote: »

i need points my english is no where near a1 standard so why the hell shouldnt I prepare one

If your english is nowhere near A1 standard, you're not gonna get an A then are you? At least, you don't deserve one.

boobookitty

God, some people have no imagination. And I'm going to be so pissed, that come Wed 13th August, I'll see the people who copied essays get higher than me in English. And to hear them gloat etc will drive me over the edge. I've been working so hard.

It's different if you write essays already, learn them off and then incorporate them into the paper. Usually by using that one line. "pre: The air was electric" I feel that's ok. As long as YOU did it.

I'm worried about some people who need high points for courses. If you can't deal with the stress of oh dear, thinking of an essay, using your brain, how are you going to deal with the stress of your future career?

People love to blame the teacher. Do you not have any friends/family/other staff members to ask? The examiners are human. If not, go online, get marking schemes. If the essay asks for descriptive writing, then use adjectives etc. Jesus. Don't write about the LC, have too big of a time line (10+years etc) ...

Sorry, I can rant all day.

philologos

JC 2K3 wrote: »

What doesn't make sense? I can clarify if you want.

Could you tell me where exactly I can find something officially saying that the LC is just about "learning off stuff". Some people might find that they can get a higher grade by learning off something someone else wrote as opposed to working on their ability to write good answers to questions, but it doesn't make that kind of thing right, and it certainly doesn't mean the LC is all about that kind of thing.

It is a points system, yes. Those who are good at English should get the highest points for English and those not so good should get lower points. If someone who isn't very good at English learns off essays etc., regurgitates them in the exam and gets higher points than someone better than them at writing English, then the system is skewed and is unfair on the person who is genuinely good at English.


Ok, so do many other people, many of whom are genuinely good at English.


Then you don't deserve an A1 in English.

You have to admit that most subjects for LC are essentially just a memory test of what you have learned in the last 2 years.

Mind you I must say that I'd be happy even with a B3.

BarryDoodles

The Leaving cert is a memory exam! ther're elements of skill involved (geography, art etc) but as for everything else it is pure reguratation! i am not saying nick someone else's short story but learn your own a1 standard story learn all the structures, all the link sentences. When it comes to predictable questions such as comparative or poetry and your teacher throws you a sample essay that will get you an 'a' learn that..folly otherwise!
The institute is the main feeder school for trinners and Ucd.All they do is fire essay's at you to learn so it must be beneficial.
I am done arguing about the points system, i'm just going to exploit it.