Unsupportive significant other?

hippiechickie

This post has been deleted.

Wishbone Ash

hippiechickie wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Therein lies part of your problem. Stick to the driving instructor. There are too many emotions involved with family/partners.

I would point blank refuse to teach any family member how to drive.

hippiechickie

This post has been deleted.

Puteq

OP, heres my opinion for what its worth. firstly, you are getting too emotional about the whole driving test thing, i guess its easy for me to say, i was lucky enough to have passed my test years ago so its a distant memory (thank the gods). i dont have any answers for you on that one since i cant advise you how to feel

however by the sounds of things your b/f is failing in his duties as a boyfriend. it doesnt matter whether you failed due to something you did or didnt do yourself, if something was bothering my g/f i would comfort her and try to make her feel better, no matter what it was or whose fault it was. again, i dont have an answer for you on this one (it would be too extreme to dump him based on this one thing) but i would not be very happy with him if i were you

Alanstrainor

Can i ask how many lessons you got? and was it just with one instructor?
It sounds to me like you had a very poor instructor, it's his job to give you the confidence in your driving by providing clear instructions to you, the driver. The problems you have with road positioning, gears, confidence.etc, can be sorted with the help of an instructor, he's paid to have patience and knows all to well all the problems you seem to have. I say, start over, get a new instructor and tell him all the problems you're having, and when you're out practising tell your bf or Dad to stay quiet unless you ask them for advise, just remember what you have learned in your lessons. Try not to let something so silly get you down, it sounds like you were under immense pressure today, it's over now so just forget about it. Now you'll know what it's like so next time around you should have more confidence going into the test.
I hope this helps.

hippiechickie

This post has been deleted.

chris85

hippiechickie wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

You need to find a way to have more confidence on the road, you need to b confident of your ability before you will be a good driver. you lack the confidence on 'real' roads and this needs to be overcome before you improve. This is obviously whats causing your panic attacks.

As or your size, i am wondering what car you drive. Maybe get something real small like a seicento or somthing. Not a fan of the seicento but may help as its small and you should have visibility around you.

Alanstrainor

No need to be embarrassed by anything, being tall myself i never had the problems you describe, but i can understand them all the same. Now you say you're worried about causing an accident of some kind, when out on lessons in your instructors car i would say just go for it, forget about your worrying and just concentrate on what you're doing, your instructor will have dual controls, will be watching where you're going and what you're doing so he will be both able to control the car and anticipate danger. I know that's a very easy thing for me to say, but i think if you're going to get out of this rut, you'll just have go for it, and take every mistake you make as a lesson learned, and put it behind you. You can't dwell on anything, constantly keep going forward(unintentional pun there:pac:) and you'll do great.

hippiechickie

This post has been deleted.

Alanstrainor

You're very welcome, dont be afraid to come back and ask more questions if needs be. Best of luck to ya!:pac::pac:

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Alanstrainor

Nice advice Donegalfella.

Alan.

bigpinkelephant

hippiechickie wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I think the best thing for you to do is to get a new instructor. Start afresh all over again and tell him/her you would like to start from scratch.

hippiechickie wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

The day I started driving, my mother told me to never, ever be intimidated by someone on the road. I do not mean you should drive inconsiderately, i.e. not indicate, drive too close to the person in front of you, etc. But if someone hasn't got the patience to wait for 20 SECONDS then that is THEIR problem. If you are driving on a single carriageway road at the speed limit and someone behind you is beeping and flashing you to go faster, that's THEIR problem and it will be THEIR fault if they rear-end you if you have to jam on the brakes. The turning point for me between being a nervous driver and getting from A to B safely was when I realised that when driving, when you worry about being a bad driver, the worry makes you worse!!! You could be all tense from worrying about stalling the car- so your movements on the clutch and accelerator are too fast and jerky- hey presto, you have stalled.

SeanW

+1

HydeRoad

There are a few problems here, but it sounds as if one of the basic problems is that as well as a lack of confidence, you don't feel in CONTROL of the car, rather the car is controlling you.

There is too much going on on the road to learn everything at once. Try this. Find a nice, large, completely empty car park, say a church car park on a weekday afternoon, or a park grounds, or an industrial estate on a Sunday. A wide open level tarmac space, perhaps with white lines marked in it.

Put a few large cardboard boxes in the car, and maybe a few lengths of bright coloured rope or ribbon, and a couple of bricks to pin the ribbon down.

Start by practicing simple clutch control, forward and backward. Learn to edge the car forward at half a mile an hour, riding the clutch pedal, learning exactly where the biting point is, and becoming proficient at holding your foot there.

Using the boxes, which won't damage the car, practice driving and reversing right up to them, till you can almost touch them, learning the length of your car, and mastering the ability to stop precisely, from lower speeds, and then from slightly faster. Stop smoothly and progressively. Lift your foot off the brake slightly just before the car stops dead, to prevent a jerk. See how smoothly you can do it, in a deserted area, without the pressure of other traffic around you.

Use rope or ribbon to mark out lines, if there are no white lines, and practice driving along them in a straight line, from either side, and then in reverse, to learn how to keep the car straight, and to learn the car's width.

You are learning the length and width of the car, becoming familiar with the power and weight of the car, and learning how to control the clutch without even thinking about it. When you go out on the road then, having these things well practiced will give you more confidence in your ability to CONTROL your car through a situation, rather than being afraid of it running away or hitting something. YOU must control the CAR, not the other way round.

Saint_Mel

OP, I was the exact same when I started to learn to drive. My gf kept giving me a hard time about her having to drive me anywhere and it caused many arguements. She tried to teach me a few times but it just wouldnt stick, plus I was very nevous. Was approaching 30 and the "cant teach an old dog new tricks" was getting the better of me! Of course I was also afraid that I'd wreck her car too so in the end I decided to buy a cheap car of my own and if anything happened to it, then so be it.

So I bought a car, she sat in with me and talked me through the total basics, as in how to start up the car, move off and stop. Armed with this knowledge I went and got lessons (in the instructors dual control first). They were €30-€40 a go and I got about 3 of them in a block as a present... and then in the evening/night I'd go to the nearest shopping centre carpark and practice taking off and stopping in my own car. And when I say every night I mean every night. Then, when I was confident with that I booked more lessons ... and so on.

I was lucky in that my instrustor put me at ease straight away any kept chatting to me about football as he was giving his instructions so it made me learn while not realising I was really learning (not sure if that makes sense but thats how it felt). Plus, at first, he took me for lessons at 7am on Saturday mornings so the roads and estates were quiet.

Overall I had between 10-15 lessons but I spaced them out so it wasnt as bad of a financial hit. But the main thing that got me through it was perserverence and heading out to practice every chance I could get.

Also if you find it hard to judge the car size etc, this is the way I was told to remember ... when your foot is hovering over the accelerator ... that is the start of the front wheel ... so then you just have to picture the wheel size and end of the bonnet added on to where your foot is.

Trust me, its worth it 100%. I'm big into football and now I'm able to drive up down and around the country following my team where as before I had to rely on the kindness of others to give me a lift ... and you soon get tired of annoying people every few weeks asking.

Keep at it and best of luck

JoeySully

have you considered buying an automatic? it would remove a whole lo of work that you would ahve to do! no gears no clutch and no need to use the handbrake sometimes ! as for the car shop around and try a few out. dont be afraid of larger cars you may even be able to see more out of a saloon rather than a small car and the seats have way more flexibility in larger cars.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Scouse J

Hey Hippiechickie

I'm in the same club as you with being short, 5ft 1 so I have a little advantage over you.

One thing I suffer with more than anything is splinter shin in my right leg. Because I'm so short the only position I can drive in that means I can see everything and reach the clutch all the way down makes it really uncomfy for me to drive for a long period because my right leg is in agony.

Thats only in certain cars, like my driving instructors in my own car which is a little citroen it isn't so bad. I have to constantly readjust my mirrors for when reversing as I can't see out the back window unless I kneel up on the seat and then my feet can touch the pedals lol.

I just recently did my test in baldoyle and for as fantastic as the place was I still failed due to a very very very bad habit of coasting. It's grand though pleanty more lessons and practice and thats a habit I can stop easier than smoking lol.

I didn't even tell my partner I was going to do the test because I didn't want him to put negative thoughts into my mind, you know you can do it so just keep telling your self that

wil

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Agree with most everything except perhaps this statement. I realise the context and qualification but as a general statement I feel as though it's an accepted attitude in Ireland.
The average driver in the UK takes 40 official lessons to pass. Here we assume a quarter of that is sufficient.
It may initially appear expensive but compared to any course, or the amount people pay for new cars, insurance, luxuries etc it is relatively fair.
It is a skill for life but people prefer to plan their alloys, stereo, trim before they even justify their right to be on the road.

OP - a very small number of people may genuinely not be capable of passing a driving test, but from what you say, you are unlikely to be in that category. If you can do certain, somewhat tricky things correctly, then there is no reason whatsoever why you can not, with correct instruction do any thing required for the test correctly.
My instructer was able to teach every aspect of driving with methods, reasons, written instructions, diagrams and mnemonics. I tried out with 2 others and they were worse than useless.

Instruction with someone not capable of teaching you correctly may in fact be detrimental to your learning. It may take a proper instructer longer to get you to unlearn habits picked up when taught by parents, family etc.
You are probably better off having no "uninstructed" supervised practice but stick purely to a good proven instructer. When they bring you up to a good level then some supervised (but unspoken) practice might be beneficial.
Both my cousin and I did NO unpaid lessons and we both passed way way before other members of our family being taught by family, bf.s etc.

It is worth taking some single lessons with different instructers to find one suitable for you. A poor instructer is just a waste of money and time.

A comment about cars and height. I have noticed that many recent models have very restricted rear visibility with higher boots and smaller rear windows, higher side panels, low bucket seats etc. An older smaller car or one with a high seating position and larger windows might suit you better.
Even 2 door cars tend to have better unrestricted side visibility than 4 door and as an inexperienced driver, all extra easy visibility is a bonus to help not missing something and help judge road position etc.

Noopti

Agree with most everything except perhaps this statement. I realise the context and qualification but as a general statement I feel as though it's an accepted attitude in Ireland.
The average driver in the UK takes 40 official lessons to pass. Here we assume a quarter of that is sufficient.
It may initially appear expensive but compared to any course, or the amount people pay for new cars, insurance, luxuries etc it is relatively fair.

€1600 approx, would seem very excessive for me to spend on something like this. It does not take 40 lessons to learn how to drive. In my opinion, you need a certain number of lessons in order to get all the basics covered and then it comes down to practice. I would say 10 lessons on average is what people need - again just my opinion.

How can 40 hours of training be needed to cover what is in the Irish driving test which lasts roughly 30-40 mins?

Maybe I'm wrong with this, but it makes no sense to me.

Alanstrainor

The number of lessons required very much depends on the driver and Instructor. I only had 5 lessons and 3 pretests and passed first time. I was told after 4 lessons that i didn't need any more but i insisted on the 5th, i would completely agree that to suggest that 40 lessons should be the norm is just outrageous.

missmatty

I agree. I was an incredibly nervous driver and I had about 15 lessons over 2 years, then got my own car. Started off driving early Sat mornings over to the nearest Superquinn so I could get in and out and park when it was quiet. Also a friend came out with me a few times. Did a bit more gradually and then bit the bullet and started driving to work (long drive dublin to celbridge, nearly an hour). OMG was i so terrified it was unreal. But I knew I was capable of it if I could sit on the terror.

That was three months ago and I have improved an awful lot and not terrified anymore (cautious but not scared). Have test next month, but that'll be a story for another thread!

Oh and also I'm 5 foot nothing with a big chest so i can totally see where you're coming from re: the height thing, it bothered me alot. Its ok now but I get pains in my hips from all the pedal action for some reason.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

hippiechickie

This post has been deleted.

hippiechickie

This post has been deleted.

hippiechickie

This post has been deleted.

RoseBlossom

bigpinkelephant wrote: »

The day I started driving, my mother told me to never, ever be intimidated by someone on the road. I do not mean you should drive inconsiderately, i.e. not indicate, drive too close to the person in front of you, etc. But if someone hasn't got the patience to wait for 20 SECONDS then that is THEIR problem.

+1

I would like to think I am considerate in person, and when I started driving this manifested itself as panic whenever I was a bit slow moving off at traffic lights etc. I really didn't like to think I was annoying people behind me who could be in a rush and so on. Also, there are lots of little windy country roads back home and I would usually pick up some tailgater and start speeding up to keep them happy...

I don't do this anymore! :cool:

One day when I was a beginner I was slowing down to take a right-hand turn and the car behind came up very close... I rushed to get out of their way, took the turn too quickly and badly (into a very, very quiet road, luckily) and ended up very close to hitting the wall on the far side of the road I was turning into (mixed up the brake and accelerator in my panic ). I gave myself (and my poor dad!) such a shock that from that day onwards I will not allow myself to stress over someone else being rushed. I just look at them in the mirror and say "You can wait!! I'll be damned if I'm going to risk my life just to keep you happy!".

Of course, I don't advocate driving too slowly, just not panicking because someone appears behind you!

bigpinkelephant

Isn't it funny how being behind a wheel can bring out the hard man in people- think they're untouchable because they're in their big metal box so they think they can be as rude as they like!!! Especially when you're clearly nervous or having difficulty- they wouldn't go up to someone having difficulty walking and start walking right up behind them making hand gestures and "beep" noises to try and make them go faster!!! But it's ok when you're in a car, sure if they make you swerve you could only be killed

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

wil

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I indicated I was aware of this point you were making, and its not that I dont agree with you as such (if this was Britain I would be in agreement) but I do understand why 30 or any amount of poor lessons are worse than no lessons at all.

Actually the UK average is 45 hours professional lessons plus 22 private practice. The Irish test isnt to as high a standard so less should suffice but still more than the accepted 10

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/LearnerAndNewDrivers/PracticalTest/DG_4022483
"Those who pass their driving test have had, on average, about 45 hours of professional training combined with 22 hours of private practice. Learners who prepare this way, with a combination of plenty of professional training and plenty of practice, do better in the test."

The OP shouldnt be made to feel bad for failing after that many lessons rather be directed to abandon that instructor as obviously not right for her.
Some people will learn to pass despite their instructers not because of them. I find it ridiculous when people quote passing after only a couple of lessons and implying that it should be the same for everyone. If you inquire further, how many years did it take them to get their test, and how many fails?
I did mine in 20 lessons over 5 weeks and passed first time, with NO other practice. I had no other access to any car. It was money well spent even though I didnt have it to spare at the time. I then went on to buy an old car. Having a licence allowed me to get a decent job where a licence was desirable and I got to drive company cars where other non licence holders (of which there are relatively few in the UK) were stuck with public transport for official business.

The attitude is completely ar$eways here, people buy a car, drive to work then look to learn as an afterthought.
They also get upset if you question this attitude. They assume the right to drive long before they demonstrate it.

Many other countries require you to attend driving schools and you cant pass without completing the course. It is not as strict as that in the UK but almost everyone at school leaving age takes official lessons almost as a right of passage and learn young. That is the attitude we need to engender here and things will improve.
My insurance quadrupled coming back here.
In reality 1600 would be a small outlay if you were to save all that in just a few years of much lower premiums. (and continue saving)
And fewer repair bills, hospital bills etc.
If people had the attitude that putting even 1000 towards passing their test and doing it quickly they wouldnt spend forever learning and waste a lot of money indirectly by driving on a provisional for years. I think the new law may effectively go towards encouraging this attitude.

Alainstrainer wrote:

to suggest that 40 lessons should be the norm is just outrageous

I dont think there is anything outrageous suggesting that people would be better off learning to drive properly and quickly than what we are lumbered with currently. Isnt it time we learned from people with a little more expertise than us. 45 lessons obviously isnt outrageous in the UK, why should something comparable be here? Same cars, same roads, much the same rules, half the death rates.

Would you feel the same if doctors were self taught and practised in life and death situations daily rather than actually learn from teachers long before they put their theory in to practice.

And back to the OT, OP delighted to hear you are putting it all in proper perspective and feeling better about it. When you pass and end up being a better driver that the bf, he will still be in a huff.

On airbags and the shorter woman, my neighbour in her 50s and currently learning, and might fit your physical description, drove her new car in to her front steps after coming back from a lesson (from her son) setting off both airbags. Didnt really have any particular physical effect other than embarassment and setting of the horn which I had to help shut up. So dont concern yourself too much with scare stories about airbags, concentrate more on never hitting anything. American surveys may be a bit unreliable here because they tend not to wear belts and rely on airbags too much and standards may be different. How do they survive in Japan where the average female height is closer to yours?
On the other hand, I think you should stay away from Ford:pac:Taurus's;)

Alanstrainor

wil wrote: »

I dont think there is anything outrageous suggesting that people would be better off learning to drive properly and quickly than what we are lumbered with currently. Isnt it time we learned from people with a little more expertise than us. 45 lessons obviously isnt outrageous in the UK, why should something comparable be here? Same cars, same roads, much the same rules, half the death rates.

Would you feel the same if doctors were self taught and practised in life and death situations daily rather than actually learn from teachers long before they put their theory in to practice.

I am not that familiar with the UK driving test, but seeing that we are in Ireland, with our driving test, 45 hours IS ridiculous. I cannot see how an almost identical test can take that many hour long lessons to prepare for, and i think there are a lot more factors to consider in the road deaths for both countries than just the driving test eg. In 2007 36% of Irish road fatalities were due to driving over the legal alcohol limit, in the uk on the other hand this figure is under 16%. That alone would account for the difference in road deaths. Whether you take 10 lessons or 500, it all ultimately comes down to the difficulty of the test, drastically "over preparing" for a test that only examines the basics of driving makes no sense at all to me.
Also your statistic on the uk having half the road fatality rate of Ireland is not correct. It's more like ~75%.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

hippiechickie

This post has been deleted.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

wil

hippiechickie wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Hope she turns out good. But remember, because of the complete lack of regulation for so long, the standard of training here isnt very consistent, so if she turns out to be a waste of time, you are not obliged in any way to her, ditch her and move on quickly to one who can teach you properly.
If she is good, happy days ahead.:)

wil

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Not said by I.

Nor did I advise anyone here to take 45 lessons.

I had no intention of hogging the OPs thread on a point about numbers of lessons. However my initial pointing out the current situation in our nearest neighbour where exists a worthy system was ridiculed. (And my points misquoted.)
Unfortunately it is our system that is ridiculous and our attitudes somewhat farcical.
Its a little like saying in order to get your leaving cert, aim for a D-.
That sadly is reflected in the situation on our roads.
A huge part of the point of learning to pass your test is not just to pass, but to actually be safe on the road. As for percentages compared to the UK, it really depends which year you consider, but certainly several from the last decade were closer to the 50% mark than the 75%. As a driver, I felt 90% safer on those roads than here. And I certainly never witnessed so many accidents till I came back.

This is not a Latin test where you may or may never use it again, it is a skill you will likely use for most of the rest of your life. Start off with the basics right and that life is likely to continue for longer.

I agree that 40plus lessons seems like a lot, but on the other hand 5 is way too few for the average person. I gave my own example of 20 in a short period with a competent instructer as a more realistic compromise.
Everyone is different, with different requirements, but to make such a low number appear normal is to leave people with unrealsitic expectations and higher fail rates, and ultimately lower the overall driving skills as people scrape through and retain attitudes of indifference.

If given the choice - take a few ad hoc lessons now and again over a couple of years and 50% chance of passing
or
do *20 to 30 lessons with competent instructer over 3 to 6 months and have an 80 to 90% chance of passing
which would you prefer to bank your future on?

Come July, when people are no longer legally allowed to "train" themselves as they ferry themselves around, option 1 might just become an anomaly of the past.

In the words of my instructer
"One point of passing the test is to confirm you are safe enough to be allowed learn on your own"
Thanks Alastair.

J_R

Hi,

Have you ever considered using "pedal Extenders" (Do a "Google"). Or read about them here:- http://www.rsa.ie/SERVICES/upload/File/ADI%20FORMS/RicabilityLoRes.pdf

I obtained a set for one of my pupils who like you was Vertically Challenged (As she used to say)

She found them very good. I purchased them from RCM Marketing. But they may be available in Ireland now.

The fact that you have trouble changing gears could be the result of siting way forward, forcing you to stretch to far backwards and at an awkard angle. - Especially for 2nd and 4th gears.

Trouble with assessing your position on the road could be simply because you can not see due to height restriction. (Tried cushions ??)

Make of car your instructor has could also be an issue. I have a VW golf and short statured people have no problems. But then have none just quite as short as you.

Able to do the corner reverse and especially the turnabout proves you can control the car OK.

Try another instructor/car and consider obtaining the extenders.

Using a footrest might also help. You could buy them from RCM above, who calls it a "Floor Level Raiser Pad", but you could make your own - piece of wood nail or glue a bit of carpet and stick some velcro on the bottom. RCM size is approx. 300mm x 200mm, 50mm thick but you could experiment. But make sure it CAN NOT interfere with the normal operation of the brake and clutch.

You should have changed instructor sooner as he should have pointed out some or all of the above.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

hippiechickie

This post has been deleted.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

hippiechickie

This post has been deleted.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

hippiechickie

This post has been deleted.

hippiechickie

This post has been deleted.

_feedback_

donegalfella really took that book on board!! Fareplay in spotting that man...

Great to hear the lesson went well hippiechickie. Was surprised someone hadn't mentioned the pedal extensions earlier in the thread, that should help you out big time.

The mention of a lot of female chests kept a few of us interested in that thread but you got some good advice there.

I'm lucky that I wasn't nervous, but made plenty of mistakes. However, everyone is in the same boat when they start, and you just have to believe in yourself and your instructor.

Hopefully everything goes well with the new one after the first good lesson today!

Good Luck

hippiechickie

This post has been deleted.

hippiechickie

This post has been deleted.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

sunnyside

That's fantastic. Delighted for you. What did the unsupportive boyfriend say?

hippiechickie

This post has been deleted.