So what type of relationship should Ireland have with Britain?

darkman2

Politically? My own opinion is that it should be no different to how we treat France or Germany. I dont see the reason or need to treat the UK any differently - for example like joining the Commonwealth or setting up meaningful Irish/UK political bodies. I also dont believe this country can ever have a mature relationship with the UK as long as Northern Ireland exists. We can have a good relationship and work together on various issues certainly but the two countries deep down will never see eye to eye on the North.


Other then the North, and even if it was sorted out in the morning, I dont see why Britain should be treated any differently to any other country. It is just that - a foreign country. The same as Italy, France and the US. All can claim to have close cultural links with this country and that, IMO, is not a good enough reason for strengthening political ties with Britain. Britains business in the 26 counties ended long ago - it seems with talk of Commonwealth membership etc in recent times a small minority seem to struggle to accept this fact.

Take these people for example

www.reform.org


and I know there are some on boards aswell that seem to have a yearning to stress that they have a strand of Britishness in them despite being born and brought up in a Republic. To me it seems to be a sort of tradition passed on through parents and grandparents that some people see themselves as 'different' to the rest of us and expect special treatment as if they are being oppressed or something.....this seems to be mostly based around religion.

Latchy

Not so much a yearning to stress any strand of britishness but just thst some of us work and live here .

I think the past ie,NI will always be a hangover for many decades or more to come

Riddle101

How should we treat Britain? Like Best Friends of course. We can't change our History i'll give you that but we need to forget the past and be able to say that the old days are gone and the new are here. Our relationship with Britain has been closer then ever and we should continue this because we're one in the same really, we're both Islands, we're right beside eachother, we speak English and we'ere a lot closer to England then we'll ever be to France and Germany

crip17

You cannot conquer Ireland. You cannot extinguish
the Irish passion for freedom. If our deed has not
been sufficient to win freedom, then our children
will win it by a better deed.
Pádraig Pearse

WooPeeA

Irish economy and most of the trade inside the country depend on British market and investors.

Of course there's many big companies from USA (like for ex. Dell) or Germany (for ex. Lidl and Aldi) but most of all are British companies. Most of the invests comes from Britain.

They should be tread like best friends. I think that today's relations are pretty acceptable.

DublinWriter

darkman2 wrote: »

I also dont believe this country can ever have a mature relationship with the UK as long as Northern Ireland exists.

It's very politically naive to paint the UK as the bogeyman when it comes to Northern Ireland.

The whole 'Brits Out' argument makes me laugh. The UK would have pulled out of the Province long ago if they had a free choice. The area has been a massive drain on the UK economy since the 1950's and was increasingly moreso after the commencement of the troubles.

If Britain pulled out of the North in the morning, what do you think 500,000+ Unionists would do? Wake up in the morning, rub the sleep from their eyes, and go "Jaysus Billy, sure we might as well give this whole Republican thing a go".

No they would not. There would be an all-out civil war up there that would make Kosovo look like a tea party. Meanwhile Westminster would look over at Dublin and say "That's your problem now, chaps".

turgon

I second the above point

Additionally do you really think that the government would take on NI as fast as they say they would? I know that "we love our country" and that people like quoting from other people who died 90 years ago but realistically would be feckin ourselves up by taking on such a mess.

MrJoeSoap

crip17 wrote: »

You cannot conquer Ireland. You cannot extinguish
the Irish passion for freedom. If our deed has not
been sufficient to win freedom, then our children
will win it by a better deed.
Pádraig Pearse

Whats that got to do with anything?

I agree 100% with Riddle101.

djpbarry

darkman2 wrote: »

All can claim to have close cultural links with this country and that, IMO, is not a good enough reason for strengthening political ties with Britain.

Do you have a good reason NOT to strengthen ties with Britain, or any other nation for that matter? Do you think Ireland should begin to break links with Britain?

darkman2 wrote: »

...and I know there are some on boards aswell that seem to have a yearning to stress that they have a strand of Britishness in them despite being born and brought up in a Republic.

I think it's quite likely that the vast majority of Irish people have British ancestors. For example, I'm 100% Irish as far as I'm concerned, but my surname is French in origin and my mother's maiden name is English. I don't see anything wrong with acknowledging that, or even taking an interest in it.

rockbeer

How about Ireland uniting with Britain? It's virtually the same country anyway, and not just because we speak the same language and drive on the left: we also watch the same soap operas, support the same football teams, shop in the same shops, aspire to the exact same vacuous middle class desires and values...

Leave the backward-looking parochial wasteland of the north to its own devices, and face facts: the republic has far more in common nowadays with Britain than NI so we might just as well become a single country.

Let's face it, we'll all be part of the USE soon anyway.

dsmythy

DublinWriter wrote: »

It's very politically naive to paint the UK as the bogeyman when it comes to Northern Ireland.

If Britain pulled out of the North in the morning, what do you think 500,000+ Unionists would do? Wake up in the morning, rub the sleep from their eyes, and go "Jaysus Billy, sure we might as well give this whole Republican thing a go".

No they would not. There would be an all-out civil war up there that would make Kosovo look like a tea party. Meanwhile Westminster would look over at Dublin and say "That's your problem now, chaps".

I agree with you there. If Britain said they wanted nothing to do with the North tomorrow the struggle would become "should Northern Ireland join with the Republic or become an independant state?". If violence ensues cue "ethnic cleansing" and mass movements of people into the Republic or into their respective safe regions within Northern Ireland.

If we intervened we would just become to the post-unionists, as i presume they would then be, what Britain was to nationalists.

So retain friendly relations with our closest neighbour would be my answer to the original question

SeanW

Funny thing is they mention the Commonwealth ... lemme see, an organisation of British ex-colonies with headquarters in London and the British monarch as its head ...

We can - and should - maintain good relations with the UK without joining their silly "Commonwealth." So much for Reform's "New Ireland" and "leaving the past behind" - it looks like they want to bring the past back to life.

eoin5

I know this question is being asked in a historical context but on a more present note I think we should be watching whats going on over there very closely. Our economic growth has slowed a lot but theyre really struggling now with their banks faltering. The council taxes are beginning to hurt people badly and they have serious social issues and crime problems too. The grass isnt greener over there at the moment.

turgon

rockbeer wrote: »

How about Ireland uniting with Britain? It's virtually the same country anyway, and not just because we speak the same language and drive on the left: we also watch the same soap operas, support the same football teams, shop in the same shops, aspire to the exact same vacuous middle class desires and values...

Leave the backward-looking parochial wasteland of the north to its own devices, and face facts: the republic has far more in common nowadays with Britain than NI so we might just as well become a single country.

Let's face it, we'll all be part of the USE soon anyway.

How about political union with Scotland and Wales. Get the whole united celtic republics thing going

WooPeeA

turgon wrote: »

How about political union with Scotland and Wales. Get the whole united celtic republics thing going

Today we should rather work for whole Europe working together than some groups of countries units.

LostinBlanch

eoin5 wrote: »

I know this question is being asked in a historical context but on a more present note I think we should be watching whats going on over there very closely. Our economic growth has slowed a lot but theyre really struggling now with their banks faltering. The council taxes are beginning to hurt people badly and they have serious social issues and crime problems too. The grass isnt greener over there at the moment.

Well you find Kevin Myers agreeing with you. Linky

Only fools -- which the British have really and truly been -- would allow unhindered access to their home by unlimited numbers of foreigners. And it is because of British folly, and the millions of non-Britons who now live in Briton, that I would end the common travel area between these islands. I would also, for the same reason, start convincing the unionist people that it makes sense that they come to terms with the rest of an island which wants them, as opposed to their retaining an unreturned affection for a neighbouring island that clearly doesn't.

Which might seem to place me in a very strange position indeed: quasi-shinnerdom. No, not really. Merely because the Shinners were pockmarked savages with the blood of thousands of innocents on their hands in the past, doesn't mean they're always wrong today. And on the future of Ireland, they're right. Moreover, you can hardly celebrate the wicked obscenity of 1916 today, as Fianna Fail and Fine Gael apparently do, and in the same breath celebrate the loss of sovereignty implicit in the current Eurination, as they also do.

I know he's a professional contrarian but that is some u turn. :eek:

mike65

It hard to treat the next door neighbour exactly like the guy down the street you have hardly seen, never mind talked to.

Britains kids are running around in our garden and our in thiers.

Mike.

Riddle101

DublinWriter wrote: »

It's very politically naive to paint the UK as the bogeyman when it comes to Northern Ireland.

The whole 'Brits Out' argument makes me laugh. The UK would have pulled out of the Province long ago if they had a free choice. The area has been a massive drain on the UK economy since the 1950's and was increasingly moreso after the commencement of the troubles.

If Britain pulled out of the North in the morning, what do you think 500,000+ Unionists would do? Wake up in the morning, rub the sleep from their eyes, and go "Jaysus Billy, sure we might as well give this whole Republican thing a go".

No they would not. There would be an all-out civil war up there that would make Kosovo look like a tea party. Meanwhile Westminster would look over at Dublin and say "That's your problem now, chaps".

Why do you think the Unionists would go to start a civil war just because the country they've been supporting since the time of the arrival left, did it ever occur to you that maybe the Unionists would feel betrayed by Britain for leaving them to their demise, i would think the Unionsts would be drawn to our side and count themselves lucky that we would stand by with open arms if that should happen.

BTW On the argument about whether the Unionist would join with us or want to form an independant state, well i doubt Northern Ireland is that strong enough to be able hold themselves together once Britain leaves them. They'll need support, maybe from us

mike65

You clearly have no great insight into the Unionist mind if you really think that.

Many would be very sullen unwilling guests at best, probably leave for England which is what NI nationalists would hope for anyway.

Mike.

dsmythy

Riddle101 wrote: »

Why do you think the Unionists would go to start a civil war just because the country they've been supporting since the time of the arrival left, did it ever occur to you that maybe the Unionists would feel betrayed by Britain for leaving them to their demise, i would think the Unionsts would be drawn to our side and count themselves lucky that we would stand by with open arms if that should happen.

BTW On the argument about whether the Unionist would join with us or want to form an independant state, well i doubt Northern Ireland is that strong enough to be able hold themselves together once Britain leaves them. They'll need support, maybe from us

They may feel betrayed but they may not see the Republic as the answer. Every country has to start somewhere and struggle through their early years. Kosovo and Montenegro have begun that journey of late.

Will they start some sort of civil war or will nationalists cause it by using the absence of the UK in the North to go for a union with the Republic against the will of the unionist community? Partition part two the answer? That tends not to end well.

Of course all this only counts if said abandonment happened today. By the time it might happen attitudes may have changed in all sorts of unforseen ways.

Bubs101

crip17 wrote: »

You cannot conquer Ireland. You cannot extinguish
the Irish passion for freedom. If our deed has not
been sufficient to win freedom, then our children
will win it by a better deed.
Pádraig Pearse

You do realise that Pearse was British

darkman2

It is worth remembering that it is the policy of this country to pursue unification without British involvement. If NI tried to go independent, most likely, there would be ruptions from this country. It would lead to war. Under no circumstances would/should this country accept an independent NI under the control of people we will never trust. Its as simple as - the UK splits = United Ireland. This country would never accept an independent NI entity. I can see why going on not too distant history.

As for UK/Irish relationship - be freindly and all but remember there is unfinished business in Ireland. Thats how they and us see it. If the UK broe up tomorrow then many moderate Unionists would support a United Ireland. In effect a majority would support it as the most logical and reasonable step.


Its also worth noting how damaged Unionists would be in negotiating with us when the UK splits. They would have far more influence deciding now rather then waiting for the inevitable.

djpbarry

darkman2 wrote: »

Under no circumstances would/should this country accept an independent NI under the control of people we will never trust.

Who would they be? You don't think the people of NI have the right to elect whoever they please?

darkman2 wrote: »

Its as simple as - the UK splits = United Ireland. This country would never accept an independent NI entity.

This country wouldn't, or you wouldn't? Personally, I don't see any problems with an independent NI.

mike65

I think darkman2 over-estimates the interest/emotional attatchment of Free Staters with the oppressed peoples of the Occupied 6 Counties.

An independent NI (which will never happen for logistical reasons) woukld not bother many so long as it were run in a fashion recognisable as a West European democracy.

Mike.

El Stuntman

mike65 wrote: »

I think darkman2 over-estimates the interest/emotional attatchment of Free Staters with the oppressed peoples of the Occupied 6 Counties.

An independent NI (which will never happen for logistical reasons) woukld not bother many so long as it were run in a fashion recognisable as a West European democracy.

Mike.

very sensible post, I for one would be strongly against a United Ireland

purple'n'gold

If in the extremely unlikely event of Great Britain abandoning Northern Ireland and expelling it from the UK there are unionists who would never accept that situation. They abhor Catholicism with venom (it doesn’t matter about our new found secularism etc. they still regard us as a priest ridden society, and perception is always more important than fact.) and despise the republic for being responsible for breaking up the UK initially. They would have to be accommodated by resettlement in England or Scotland. We are talking about maybe 500,000 people here, and it would all have to be paid for. A massive upheaval for a country as small as Ireland.

djpbarry

purplengold wrote: »

They abhor Catholicism with venom...

That’s a bit of a sweeping statement, don’t you think? There are Unionist Catholics you know.

purplengold wrote: »

They would have to be accommodated by resettlement in England or Scotland.

Would they? Any hint of a break-up of the UK and every single Unionist will up and leave to England or Scotland, will they? They'll just readily abandon their homes just like that?

dsmythy

purplengold wrote: »

They would have to be accommodated by resettlement in England or Scotland. We are talking about maybe 500,000 people here, and it would all have to be paid for. A massive upheaval for a country as small as Ireland.

I don't think they would leave their homes and place where their ancestors have lived possibly for hundreds of years.

They could revive the old "A Protestant parliament for a Protestant people" even if it meant a redrawing of the border and a movement of people in both directions until the right balance is struck in the old traditions of European post-conflict "solutions".

DublinWriter

Bubs101 wrote: »

You do realise that Pearse was British

And there was me thinking he and his brother were born in Dublin.

Do you realise that Wolfe Tone, Roger Emmet, Roger Casement and James Connelly were all Protestant?

Bubs101

DublinWriter wrote: »

And there was me thinking he and his brother were born in Dublin.

And when he was born in DUblin it was part of the U.K. before which would make him British

all the stars

Hi...

Im for a happy Ireland... everyone can call themselves whatever they like once they aren't killing eachother.

We dont own this world anyway - it belongs no one. So what differance will it make.

All the old ways need to be forgotten/ left alone. It happened, it was awful for everyone involved but hopefullt its all over now and we can move forward.
I want a happy Ireland... Vote for me

AceofSpades001

Bubs101 wrote: »

And when he was born in DUblin it was part of the U.K. before which would make him British

That would make Mahatma Gandhi British by that logic. Plus most of Africa and a fair portion of Asia could claim British descent. Regardless of this completely trivial point is the fact that it matters not whether someone was Catholic/Protestant/Irish/British, only what cause they fought for.

Personally I think that Ireland should continue developing strong ties with the UK as regards trade. But I think that there should be more of a push from the Irish side to reassert our culture. I'm not saying that we should
ban speaking English or anything drastic but establishing and demonstrating to the world a pride in our culture that doesn't involve going to the pub and belting out a tune of "Get out ye Black and Tans" would be nice.

Besides, I think that within a few generations, when the memories of troubles in the north are but a memory of great grandparents and the hardline unionist numbers have dwindled relative to a rising moderate (and maybe apathetic) population, I think that we will see a United Ireland voted in by referendum by Northern Irish people. Maybe not in our lifetimes, but hopefully?

purple'n'gold

“That would make Mahatma Gandhi British by that logic. Plus most of Africa and a fair portion of Asia could claim British descent. Regardless of this completely trivial point is the fact that it matters not whether someone was Catholic/Protestant/Irish/British, only what cause they fought for.”

Neither India nor any part of Africa was ever part of the United Kingdom. Ireland was, from 1801 to 1922.

DublinWriter

all the stars wrote: »

We dont own this world anyway - it belongs no one. So what differance will it make.

True - I always thought it was a bit like fleas arguing over who owned the dog.

As long as basic human and civil rights are enjoyed by all, then what is the problem?

AceofSpades001

purplengold wrote: »

“That would make Mahatma Gandhi British by that logic. Plus most of Africa and a fair portion of Asia could claim British descent. Regardless of this completely trivial point is the fact that it matters not whether someone was Catholic/Protestant/Irish/British, only what cause they fought for.”

Neither India nor any part of Africa was ever part of the United Kingdom. Ireland was, from 1801 to 1922.

Woops, need to brush up on my history.

Riddle101

purplengold wrote: »

“That would make Mahatma Gandhi British by that logic. Plus most of Africa and a fair portion of Asia could claim British descent. Regardless of this completely trivial point is the fact that it matters not whether someone was Catholic/Protestant/Irish/British, only what cause they fought for.”

Neither India nor any part of Africa was ever part of the United Kingdom. Ireland was, from 1801 to 1922.

correction it was known as the Union of Great Britain and Ireland, i don't see anything there about Scotland or Wales, so that must mean we weren't seen as British. Also dose it really make any difference whether Pearse was British or not, he fought for Irish rights therfore he did not care if he was British nor dose anyone else for that matter.

Like i said before we need to forget the past, if Britain can forget that France was at one stage their biggest enemy or that Germany once invaded most of Europe then i think Ireland and Britain should forget there difference, the Rep of Ireland is free now just get over it

LordSutch

Which probably makes all our Grandparents/ Great grandparents British/Irish if they were born pre 1922 ?

As a matter of interest, its fascinating when you look at old pictures or read accounts of Queen Victoria's last visit in 1900~1901 particularly to see the thousands of Irish people all over Dublin & Dun Laoghaire (Kingstown) waving Union Jacks (Dublin Jackeens)? ~ and then just a couple of decades later (we are not british, we never were british, we despise the british & everything they stand for) & we dont want the North or its people to be British either :rolleyes:

If you look at our history, it does seem that we have a somewhat confused identity regarding our Geography & National identity, and recently we have even left the british isles according to Dermot Ahearn (Twit) but at least we have joined the "Council of the Isles" which I presume is the British isles

And what is British anyway? I am british for sure (but I am certainly not English), Paisley is also very Irish & fervently British too . . . . the Union Jack is the British Flag (but is also one third Irish) :eek:

This group of islands are all intertwined so much that its just plain silly to pretend that we are all foreign or alien to each other in Britain & Ireland, so I think we should enjoy our new found peacefull relationship within these islands ~ British, Irish, Scottish, Welsh, Cornish, Manx, etc etc etc . . .

Its very true what a previous poster said about "Our children playing in their garden, & theirs in ours" and its always been that way too .............

Let the Good Friday Agreement flourish & bed in, and these two islands will continue to grow closer (again) & find new ways & channels to go forward together as we have always done since the beginning of time.

leninbenjamin

AceofSpades001 wrote: »

Personally I think that Ireland should continue developing strong ties with the UK as regards trade.

side note; pretty pointless exercise to focus on increasing trade with Britain, by and large the markets there are saturated anyway. from an economic point of view we need to diversify trade rather than concentrate it.

On topic I don't give a feck tbh about realigning the relationship or what have you. by and large the relationship we have is fine as is, it's just in the progress of normalising after the past few turbulent decades. I'd focus more on strengthening our relationship with the rest of the EU frankly, it's going to be the institution to have the most profound impact on our wee isle's progress over the next few decades or so. better to be trying to alleviate the sourness the French feel over our tax regime (like a country of 4mill is going to make a whit on the mismanagement of their economy seeing as they are so domestically orientated to being with :rolleyes:).

darkman2

ArthurF wrote: »

If you look at our history, it does seem that we have a somewhat confused identity regarding our Geography & National identity, .

I dont feel confused at all. Im Irish and thats that. Where would any 'confusion' come from? Everyone I know has absolutely no confusion about their national identity. Why would they? If you where born before the British departure maybe its understandable. Today there is no basis for any confusion south of the border. Even Kevin Myers seems to have gotten over his 'confusion'.;)

darkman2

ArthurF wrote: »

Let the Good Friday Agreement flourish & bed in, and these two islands will continue to grow closer (again) & find new ways & channels to go forward together as we have always done since the beginning of time.

lol your take on the past is, at best warped and wrong - your thoughts for the future are a pipe dream. Why would we want to go back to being treated like crap by the British?
Because thats how we were always treated. Leopards dont change their spots.

darkman2

djpbarry wrote: »

Who would they be? You don't think the people of NI have the right to elect whoever they please?
This country wouldn't, or you wouldn't? Personally, I don't see any problems with an independent NI.

Do you recall the regime in NI under the Unionists? It has been said that Unionists in NI are 'a different breed' to that in either the UK or the Republic. It is, in my opinion, their irrational sense of siege that gives them the accurate description of being the most unreasonable of people. If they had control up there on their own then you would know about it! Thats the way they are - and not too distant history verifies that. The British and the Irish governments decided long before the GFA that it is unacceptable to have Unionists governing the North on their own. They cant be trusted and we know what would be meated out to Catholics and Nationalists. Hence why they cannot and will not have real democracy in NI. Hence - 'Power sharing'.........take the Jews, for example, they dont give the Germans an inch today - they let them know they have nukes specifically targeting them. The message is - dont mess with us again. Our own have been on the recieving end in NI at the hands of Unionists - how can we ever trust them? And I know someone will bring up the IRA etc in reply to this - the Unionists up there let the Nationalists know their place long before the IRA was a problem.

Agent Smith

sexual....



I see Wales Checking us out. they want some of our sweet ass....

Anti

agent smith wrote: »

sexual....



I see Wales Checking us out. they want some of our sweet ass....

Like fúck do we !

LordSutch

What I was eluding to in Post#37 was that the lines between being Irish & or British are/ have always been blurred ............

Geographically this island is just 22 miles away from our neighbouring island 'Britain' with tens of thousands (a million maybe)? people in Britain claiming Irish ancestry, & with one million Unionists on this island, & with many more with English, Scottish, or Welsh Surnames spread all over this island which is understandable given our proximity & cultural ties with the Big island next door.

But then I am a Unionist & I am Irish/ British too, so I suppose my ideas & relationship with the rest of the people in this little group of islands would be somewhat different when compared to an "Irish" Nationalist for example, who sees the "British" as some kind of negative foreign people who are to be disliked & who belong to the past when the island of Ireland is concerned.

You cant wash britishness out of our blood, its in there to stay, for good, no more so than many people in Britain can pretend that they are 'not Irish'.

bartholomewbinn

darkman2 wrote: »

Do you recall the regime in NI under the Unionists? It has been said that Unionists in NI are 'a different breed' to that in either the UK or the Republic. It is, in my opinion, their irrational sense of siege that gives them the accurate description of being the most unreasonable of people. If they had control up there on their own then you would know about it! Thats the way they are - and not too distant history verifies that. The British and the Irish governments decided long before the GFA that it is unacceptable to have Unionists governing the North on their own. They cant be trusted and we know what would be meated out to Catholics and Nationalists. Hence why they cannot and will not have real democracy in NI. Hence - 'Power sharing'.........take the Jews, for example, they dont give the Germans an inch today - they let them know they have nukes specifically targeting them. The message is - dont mess with us again. Our own have been on the recieving end in NI at the hands of Unionists - how can we ever trust them? And I know someone will bring up the IRA etc in reply to this - the Unionists up there let the Nationalists know their place long before the IRA was a problem.

The Jews have nukes targeting Germany? Are you privy to information the rest of us don’t have, or are you into substance abuse?

FTA69

DublinWriter wrote: »

The whole 'Brits Out' argument makes me laugh. The UK would have pulled out of the Province long ago if they had a free choice. The area has been a massive drain on the UK economy since the 1950's and was increasingly moreso after the commencement of the troubles.

Nonsense. If the Brits had wanted to leave they would have left, simple as that, the same way they left Aden, Kenya and a raft of other places. They wouldn't have fought a 25 year dirty war and armed Loyalists if they were simply piggy in the middle between the mad Paddies. Personally I think it is much more politically naieve to buy into this notion that the Brits have no interest in this country at all considering 15% of their military intelligence budget concerns this country, as well as the fact they are building a massive MI5 headquarters in Ireland.

If Britain pulled out of the North in the morning, what do you think 500,000+ Unionists would do? Wake up in the morning, rub the sleep from their eyes, and go "Jaysus Billy, sure we might as well give this whole Republican thing a go".

No, but they would also have no choice but to live in an Irish Republic as there would be no foreign power guaranteeing them a veto over Irish sovereignty.

No they would not. There would be an all-out civil war up there that would make Kosovo look like a tea party. Meanwhile Westminster would look over at Dublin and say "That's your problem now, chaps".

War with a view to what? Reunification with Britain would be an impossibility. That leaves an independent northern state. This would also be unfeasable considering the fact the Unionists have no critical mass outside North Down and the Antrim coast. Both Belfast and Derry have clear nationalist majorities, the border area is overwhelmingly nationalist as is the countryside of Fermanagh and Tyrone. A Unionist state on its own could never survive, hence why the Brits had to prop it up in the face of a Republican insurgency.

purple'n'gold

Riddle101 wrote: »

correction it was known as the Union of Great Britain and Ireland, i don't see anything there about Scotland or Wales, so that must mean we weren't seen as British. Also dose it really make any difference whether Pearse was British or not, he fought for Irish rights therfore he did not care if he was British nor dose anyone else for that matter.

Like i said before we need to forget the past, if Britain can forget that France was at one stage their biggest enemy or that Germany once invaded most of Europe then i think Ireland and Britain should forget there difference, the Rep of Ireland is free now just get over it

“Grattan’s independent Irish parliament lasted a mere 18 years. The Act of Union of 1800, which came into force on 1 January 1801, created the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland and united the parliaments of the two kingdoms. From then until Independence in 1922 Irish Members of Parliament held seats in the parliament of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, with its seat at the Palace of Westminster.”

http://www.irlgov.ie/oireachtas/a-misc/historical-note.htm

darkman2

ArthurF wrote: »

What I was eluding to in Post#37 was that the lines between being Irish & or British are/ have always been blurred ............

Geographically this island is just 22 miles away from our neighbouring island 'Britain' with tens of thousands (a million maybe)? people in Britain claiming Irish ancestry, & with one million Unionists on this island, & with many more with English, Scottish, or Welsh Surnames spread all over this island which is understandable given our proximity & cultural ties with the Big island next door.

But then I am a Unionist & I am Irish/ British too, so I suppose my ideas & relationship with the rest of the people in this little group of islands would be somewhat different when compared to an "Irish" Nationalist for example, who sees the "British" as some kind of negative foreign people who are to be disliked & who belong to the past when the island of Ireland is concerned.

You cant wash britishness out of our blood, its in there to stay, for good, no more so than many people in Britain can pretend that they are 'not Irish'.

You say your 'Unionist'. Would it be too much to ask for you to say where you where born? Might allow some to understand where your coming from better.

LordSutch

On the island of Ireland.

darkman2

ArthurF wrote: »

On the island of Ireland.

Could you be more specific - NI or ROI? Its important in the context of the debate to know on what legal and practical basis you describe yourself as 'British'. I was born in the ROI therefore I am not British. Where you born in the ROI?

clarkey2008

It is past having asking about what type of relationship we should have with Britain.

We are all in a united Europe now, soverign powers are all but gone.