Cork Cable goes exclusively digital from 28/04/08

Solair

It seems UPC are shutting off the Cork analogue cable system completely on 28/04/08 (Monday)

Unlike other cable systems in Ireland, Cork Multichannel (the predecessor of Chorus) had an encrypted analogue cable network using US-style Jerrold cable decoders.

It looks like this service is now being shut down completely and all Cork cable customers will either have to go digital or be left with just the basic 4 channels in the clear on the UPC network.

From their website:
( http://www.upc.ie/service/?aid=139 )

Cork Digitization Program

Q. What is the Cork Digitization Program?
We are introducing a fully digitized and integrated network to offer a full suite of services such as digital TV, high speed broadband and voice to consumers in Cork.
Q. I live in Cork, how does this affect me?
If you are a digital TV customer, you will not be affected. If you are an analogue customer, your analogue TV service will be switched off on the 29 April 2008, and you will need to upgrade to digital TV to continue receiving service. To find out more about our Digital TV packs, click here.
Q. I am an analogue TV customer. Will I still receive a bill for my TV service?
No. The service will cease on the 29 April 2008 and you will not be billed after that date. At that point you will receive just four channels – RTE1, RTE2, TV3 and TG4. If you want to see more on your TV then subscribe to Digital TV now.
Q. How much will it cost me to go digital?
Check our website for current upgrade deals. We can also offer you the same service in another room for an additional €8.50 per month for each room. To find out more about our Digital TV packs, click here.
Q. Apart from Digital TV, what other services can I get in Cork?
Chorus NTL was voted best internet service provider of 2008 at the Digital Media Awards, and we provide some of the fastest broadband products in Ireland. To find out more about our Broadband packs, click here.

In addition, you can get avail of our Phone Service. Line rental starts from just €4 a month when you subscribe to all three services or €10 a month when you have just one other service. That’s nearly €20 cheaper than Eircom, and our call charges are very competitive too. To find out more about our Phone Service, click here.

icdg

Because of Cork's special situation (where decoders were issued to every customer, due to the large number of analogue channels Cork Communications offered but also due to their efforts - and Irish Multichannel, Chorus, and UPC after them - to stamp out piracy on the network) it was always going to be the easiest cable network to switch to digital. Cork customers were used to already having decoders and thus swapping the analogue decoders for digital makes sense.

The hardest cable network to switch to digital (and I will almost certainly bet will be the last) will be Dublin. Not just because its the biggest, but because Dublin customers are used to "plug-and-play" analogue and multi-room viewing (ie unecrypted cable). It will be a mammoth task, although UPC will probably concentrate on getting the analogue Chorus MMDS switched off first and then tackle the other cable networks.

paulm17781

I think this is a significant step. They're not ceasing to sell a product, they're shutting it down. I would think more networks will soon follow. Cork was definitely going to be easiest but they may well have plans for the additional bandwidth.

Irishdudedave

Who knows, maybe UPC will use the soon to be freed bandwidth in Cork to trial new services like HD, or On-Demand.... Well I can dream anyway can't I!

bazzer

Solair wrote: »

Q. I am an analogue TV customer. Will I still receive a bill for my TV service?
No. The service will cease on the 29 April 2008 and you will not be billed after that date. At that point you will receive just four channels – RTE1, RTE2, TV3 and TG4.

Just wondering, can a potential customer request a connection to the network just to receive those four Irish channels and not be billed, ever?

paulm17781

bazzer wrote: »

Just wondering, can a potential customer request a connection to the network just to receive those four Irish channels and not be billed, ever?

Connection is with a 12 month contract. I didn't know they offered these channels for free. I wonder if they'll do similar once we get DTV.

watty

They need the Analogue bandwidth for Broadband.

Also piracy of Analogue, even encrypted is huge. As I said ages ago whern UPC took over expect UPC to close all analogue distribution (except maybe the 4 Irish Analogue which they may offer officially freee, particularly for Broadband users).

The demand for Broadband and fact that a digitial Cable receiver costs less and gives better picture than Jerrord.

Expect more countermeasures against *box and Euro---

Solair

They might as well offer the 4 Irish channels in basic analogue as it's a good 'hook' to get people to sign up for digital anyway.

The Cork cable system's analogue offering was quite a lot heavier than most of the other cable systems in Ireland. At its peak it offered way more channels than the Dublin system and it always had easy access to movies, pay-per-view etc albeit through a very dated US-style analogue cable network. It was a very sophisticated system in its day. The boxes are all fully computer-addressable so were able to provide tiered channel packages, sky movies/sports and pay-per-view events without any major fuss.

It makes absolute sense to just migrate that network fully over to digital in one go as every cable household in Cork has a box/boxes anyway. For end users it's just a change of box that gives them even more channels and much better reception. Whether it's digital or analogue is really irrelevant as they've had set-top boxes since the early 1980s!

The Jerrold boxes they use are extremely old technology, however they were in widespread use right across North America too and still are in many areas! Calling them 'decoders' is giving them too much credit! They're descramblers i.e. the signal is 'scrambled' meaning they used entirely analogue techniques to make the signal unviewable.

Also, because the network's always been scrambled there was very little use of physical disconnection in Cork in recent decades. If someone doesn't pay, the box shuts off the service. Your TV can't tune into anything other than maybe the core 4 channels and in the old days "The Local Channel" which was Cork Multichannel's own TV station produced at their HQ in Cork. As a result, plenty of homes that don't subscribe to cable would still have the line connected.

UPC seem to have really lashed cash into the Cork network too. There are loads of kerb-side cabinets all of a sudden appearing all over the city and suburbs and it seems many areas have access to broadband and phone.

As far as I'm aware, the former Cork Multichannel network was the only one to have used these boxes.

Chorus used also them on analogue MMDS as they already had the head-end and network management technology so it made sense to just use the same gear for analogue MMDS too.

As for the "dodgy box" illegal digital tuners, you can certainly expect much tougher counter measures. UPC's investment in technology's a lot heavier than NTL and Chorus and they seem very determined to stamp out cable theft. I would be expecting them to phase out the older NTL and Chorus first generation digital boxes. These were generally rather cheap and nasty pieces of technology. UPC, being Europe's biggest cable provider, also have access to *MUCH* more powerful encryption technology and it is being rolled out here.

Solair

Old early 1980s Cork Multichannel announcement :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cwPa3jp5jQ

This is the box interrupting HTV wales by tuning to a 'barker' channel to tell you to PAY UP!

icdg

Not the box - whatever those Jerrold STBs are capable of, generating advertisements would not be one of them. It would have been inserted at the head-end.

Quite a scary advert too, by the looks of it...I had never seen the Cork Communications (Cork Multi-Channel TV) logo prior to the Princes Holdings take-over, very 1980s.

Solair

The box doesn't generate the advert. What it does is bump the viewer over to a looping advert carried in the clear on a spare channel! Then bump you back to normal viewing again.

The headend computer just sends out a command over the cable network. These boxes were all fully computer addressable.

They'd a lot of features that haven't been used since the Cork Communications days.

Similar tactics were used by US Cable cos too.

E.g. if you try to tune to a Movie channel you weren't subscribed to it can bounce you to a looping ad to call in and subscribe.

VERY american!

Irishdudedave

HAHA its funny looking back on it now... I always grew up with scrambled analogue cable here in cork... I used to wonder when I was younger why these new televisions used to be able to store up to 99 channels?... I actually thought that places like japan and china used to have up to 99 FTA channels like RTE available!!!

Never even occurred to me that you could get cable that worked like this!!!
Suppose thats why we here in cork have no problem with multi-room subscriptions... I remember when people at school with a "black box"(the local term given to these descramblers) were the 'posh' kids, and anyone with a black box in more than one room were too rich to even talk to to!!

This could be just me, but i suspect others remember this also!

zilog_jones

They used Jerrold boxes on cable in Limerick too but didn't do any of the fancy stuff (not as far back as I can remember anyway). I think they managed subscriptions and PPV events over the network but that was it. If you went to a scrambled channel you just saw it scrambled.

Actually I remember my grandad had a different box in the early '90s - seemed a lot more modern looking (weird as they used the crappy Jerrold boxes afterwards) and had a SCART socket and everything. Was this a different system?

Also, isn't Channel 6 unscrambled in Cork? It seemed to be when I was there a couple of weeks ago.

Irishdudedave

Ya Zilog_Jones they did start using more modern boxes in the 90's...it was the same system though.

Channel6 is carried unscrambled here in cork, although I havent checked today...it might be gone along with the other analogue channels as of today!

viewfromafar

Zilog is right -in Limerick they used cryptovision for quite a while, cut and rotate similar to Sky's old Videocrypt. It was also used on the early MMDS installations from Keeper Hill around 1990.

pa990

What about analogue MMDS, is that being shut don as well?

icdg

Already has been shut down in NTL areas. Slower progress being made with Chorus areas, but go it will, sooner rather than later I'd imagine.

zilog_jones

Wasn't it supposed to be gone about a year ago?

paulm17781

zilog_jones wrote: »

Wasn't it supposed to be gone about a year ago?

Weren't they supposed to be offering HD in 2007, interactive in 2001 and re branding to UPC last September? This shower can't do anything right.

Solair

Remember that the Chorus areas span most of the country. NTL's MMDS roll out was pretty limited by comparison.

Blaster99

What's the story with these small cable networks that Chorus has all over the place? Do they have the entire digital channel set that's available from UPC? I remember talking to them before about this and it sounded like some sort of MMDS or sat feed into a local cable network. When I last talked to them, they didn't have the Irish channels on the cable so I would have had to install both an aerial and get the cable to get all the channels.

watty

They are simply feed by ordinary MMDS signal. So only have what is on MMDS. When Analogue MMDS is totally off, they may have over 80 digital channels.

ng1

We are a former Chorus customer who were happily receiving RTE1, RTE2, TV3, TV4, until last Thursday.

Now that Chorus/UPC have switched off the analogue service, have we lost these free channels as well?

paulm17781

ng1 wrote: »

Now that Chorus/UPC have switched off the analogue service, have we lost these free channels as well?

can I call over and check your TV? Wait, why don't you try it?

ng1

paulm17781 wrote: »

can I call over and check your TV? Wait, why don't you try it?

I obviously have not made the situation clear enough for you to understand. As I said we are a former Chorus customer who were happily receiving RTE1, RTE2, TV3, TV4, until last Thursday. After Thursday, we no longer are receiving RTE1, RTE2, TV3, TV4.

According to http://www.upc.ie/service/?aid=139, analogue TV customers should also continue to receive these channels after 29 April 2008 .

UPC website Q&A wrote:

Q. I am an analogue TV customer. Will I still receive a bill for my TV service?

No. The service will cease on the 29 April 2008 and you will not be billed after that date. At that point you will receive just four channels – RTE1, RTE2, TV3 and TG4. If you want to see more on your TV then subscribe to Digital TV now.

Therefore, I would have presumed that former customers like ourselves would continue to receive these channels as well.

Do you work for UPC?

paulm17781

ng1 wrote: »

Do you work for UPC?

Nope, if I did I'd be able to answer your question. If only there was some way to contact them.

ng1

paulm17781 wrote: »

Nope, if I did I'd be able to answer your question. If only there was some way to contact them.

I have already contacted them. The problem is I am a former customer.

The official position is that UPC claim they are under no obligation to supply us with these channels because we aren't customers. This was always the case. However, unofficially UPC/Chorus/CM have always supplied these channels anyway to make it in the householder's interest not to remove the cable. Has this policy changed?

paulm17781

If they're saying they're free they should be. Is it possible they've disconnected you?

Are you getting the feed through an analogue STB or cable direct to TV? If you're going through a STB try direct connection.

Maybe try retuning the TV to see if that picks it up.

ng1

The feed is cable direct to TV rather than STB as we had cancelled our subscription. We've tried retuning. It is possible that we've been disconnected but it is too much of a coincidence that it happened in the same week UPC turned off the analogue TV signal in Cork.

I'm just wondering what the situation is with everyone else in Cork? Are you still receiving RTE1/2, TV3/4 without the digital box?

deanh

crews working for UPC have recently being doing upgrade work in the city(Bishopstown). This involved some cabling work on the junction boxes between each house. It is possible that some old anologue connections were removed.

ng1

deanh wrote: »

crews working for UPC have recently being doing upgrade work in the city(Bishopstown). This involved some cabling work on the junction boxes between each house. It is possible that some old anologue connections were removed.

Thanks deanh. We're over in Douglas. However, I'm beginning to think that the old analogue connection has been removed.

If UPC has stopped the analogue RTE1/2, TV3/4, throughout Cork, more people would be on boards discussing the issue. I can't be the only person on Cork watching the terrestrials on cable with a subscription.

Solair

Well the analogue RTE1, 2, TV3 and TG4 are really only provided on the cable for paying UPC customers who want to watch them in other rooms or whatever. If you're not paid-up, they're only left on unofficially.

They may have unplugged / disconnected cables going to houses that were not paying customers while they were doing the upgrade work on your street.

If you're not paying a UPC subscription they don't have to provide you with anything down the cable at all.

UPC are doing a major anti-piracy drive, so I assume that they might be trying to avoid having any non-paid lines connected as someone could be using an illegal decoder to access the full service.

Also, if there were any problems with your internal wiring / wiring going into your house they could cause issues on the cable main line. So, since you're not a customer and they've no contact details for you to access the internal wiring they might as well just pull the plug to avoid problems.

watty

Get an aerial. Even a decent yagi in the attic.

1) The analogue is terrible on Cable any country compared to Off Air Aerial
2) RTE may have at least 4 digital transmissions via aerial from the Autumn.

ng1

watty wrote: »

Get an aerial. Even a decent yagi in the attic.

1) The analogue is terrible on Cable any country compared to Off Air Aerial
2) RTE may have at least 4 digital transmissions via aerial from the Autumn.

Too true. We got rid of the analogue box because the signal was so poor - the terrestrial signal was better direct from the cable!

I think I will get an aerial installed.

paulm17781

watty wrote: »

1) The analogue is terrible on Cable any country compared to Off Air Aerial

Nonsense. The exact opposite is true IMO.

ng1

watty wrote: »

Get an aerial. Even a decent yagi in the attic.

1) The analogue is terrible on Cable any country compared to Off Air Aerial
2) RTE may have at least 4 digital transmissions via aerial from the Autumn.

Watty, I got a basic Yagi in B&Q this evening and have a perfect picture. Ballinure is just down the road.

I can now start hassling UPC to remove the cable

Rippy

I seem to recall being told that the 4 basic channels are provided free on analogue cable by way of compensation for the cable crossing your property. If this is no longer the case send Chorus a rent bill!

Decent aerial and FTA sat box, stuff Chorus, stuff Sky!

ng1

Rippy wrote: »

I seem to recall being told that the 4 basic channels are provided free on analogue cable by way of compensation for the cable crossing your property.

That's exactly what I always presumed!! The guy I got onto in UPC claimed I had no right to expect the terrestrial channels free because I wasn't a paying customer even though the cable crossed my property.:mad:

Rippy wrote: »

Decent aerial and FTA sat box, stuff Chorus, stuff Sky!

Couldn't agree more. I've got FTA for years and now also have a decent aerial.

Almost feel like ripping out the UPC cable!:p

Antenna

Solair wrote: »

they've had set-top boxes since the early 1980s!

Not correct. I'm reliably told the 'black boxes' were rolled out in 1987/1988 - about 5 years after the Cork cable service started.
There was considerable opposition and hostility from the TV trade and the general public to the move, and public meetings etc, but they managed to get their way.
The Cork Examiner and Echo had near daily letters and reports of annoyance, with viewers complaining about the functionality of VCRs being greatly reduced, and the awkardness of having to use not one but two remote controls for TV viewing (and the black box remote being big and ugly), additional expense for extra TV points etc etc

Solair

They're around quite a while anyway.

The Jerrold boxes also drastically degrade the PAL signal btw. They're designed primarily for use with NTSC cable in the US.

NTL in the UK used them extensively in some areas too in the old days.

From what I remember of them they also don't pass through NICAM stereo!

It's amazing that a device that didn't even have the option of a SCART output was used even in the 1980s.

They were basically 1970s US technology.

They totally destroyed the functionality of a VCR as you couldn't programme the box to change channel at a specific time. It could only be left on one channel. Then again, the same applied to many satellite boxes.

At least with digital and DVR functionality it's not so bad.

zilog_jones

Solair wrote: »

From what I remember of them they also don't pass through NICAM stereo!

Don't know about that, but the main issue is that the cable operaters apparently do not have any NICAM encoders at their headend (well they don't in Limerick anyway). NICAM audio generally only exists in analogue terrestrial broadcasts - Chorus are able to keep the NICAM signal intact for the local terrestrial channels when they are sourced from analogue broadcasts (they're taken off air from Woodcock Hill in Limerick), but under any other situation (analogue/digital satellite, microwave link or whatever they use/used for the NI channels) there's no NICAM audio to source from. I guess NICAM encoders were either too expensive when new or too obscure to come by nowadays.

No household equipment I know of is capable of generating NICAM audio - e.g. Hi-Fi Stereo VCRs, despite some brandishing "NICAM" in big letters on the front, are only capable of receiving NICAM broadcasts. VHS tapes can only record analogue FM audio, and can only output stereo sound by analogue means (phono sockets, SCART, headphones, etc.).

Actually, I've never seen any sort of NICAM encoding equipment...

watty

Actually for many years Chorus has taken off air analogue in Cavan and used their own licenced Microwave link to Keeper hill for UK TV. (1st non-RTE/non-eircom licensed link in Ireland apart from N.I.).

But everything else is spot on Zilog.


The Nicam carrier is 6.5MHz from the video making it likely to be lost or degraded on narrow channel filters (Cavan analogue microwave link?) or on tightly packed cable. (MMDS uses alternate channels for Analogue).

jkell

would you expect a company any company to supply you with 4 channels i.e labour equipment etc.for free ?? dream on
jkell

Rippy

jkell wrote: »

would you expect a company any company to supply you with 4 channels i.e labour equipment etc.for free ?? dream on
jkell

Yes, if they were using the fascia board of my house to carry their ugly cabling!

Rosser

Rippy wrote: »

I seem to recall being told that the 4 basic channels are provided free on analogue cable by way of compensation for the cable crossing your property. If this is no longer the case send Chorus a rent bill!

Decent aerial and FTA sat box, stuff Chorus, stuff Sky!

It's not as if you have a vested interest or anything.....:rolleyes:

com7

amazing people never give out about esb cables ! and how they never look to get rid of them , I wonder why ?

jkell

Solair,
for a dub ? your knowledge astounds me re Cork and the barker channel,But your quiet right.
regards,
jkell

abraxas01

I have a friend who works in Chorus/Ntl, and they've confirmed that everyone should still be getting the 4 Irish basics on analogue for free. If they're missing, it's some other problem.

Originally Posted by Rippy
I seem to recall being told that the 4 basic channels are provided free on analogue cable by way of compensation for the cable crossing your property. If this is no longer the case send Chorus a rent bill!

Decent aerial and FTA sat box, stuff Chorus, stuff Sky!

Solair

jkell wrote: »

Solair,
for a dub ? your knowledge astounds me re Cork and the barker channel,But your quiet right.
regards,
jkell

I'm a Dub and a Corkonian! It is possible!

jkell

my tv did not have a scart socket ,as in the eighties most tvs were rented cheapies,

jkell

depends in which order cd or dc ?.I prefer the 1st order