Average speed.

WHITE_P

With all this talk of speeding and how it is the cause of road accidents, I find it amusing to check the average speed on my trip computer, particularly when traveling longish distances, on a mix of R, N and M roads.

Very rarely does the average speed on the trip computer even get near the national speed limit by the journey's end, never mind exceeding it.

I'm not a slow driver either, although these day's I'm happy enough to travel at or about the posted speed limit for the road I'm on.

Now I know its a calculation of average speed, but to me it shows (as well as what I see on the roads) that speeding is not at the epidemic levels that the authorities would like us to believe.

Posted twice by accident, have requested this one to be removed.

Guy:Incognito

What has average speed got to do with aything or is this just another excuse for a rant against speed cameras etc?

A couple of sets of traffic lights will eat into average speed quicker than rust on an early 80's fiat.

If I drive at 150mph for a few miles through a town but keep my average speed down to 60 over the course of my whole journey is it ok?

unkel

WHITE_P wrote: »

Posted twice by accident

Spotted that within minutes of you posting. I removed the duplicate post

WHITE_P wrote: »

have requested this one to be removed.

Requested how or where?

bobcar61

I don't have a gadget that tells me my average speed but I would presume its fairly low because og the amount of driving I do around the town,but if I was driving along the N4 for example I'm sure my average speed would be alot higher(safe way of saying above the limit)

craichoe

Don't see what average speed has to do with it, i regularly drive from The Hague to Dusseldorf, my average speed is usually around 110km/h although theres a good hour where i'm doing 180 - 200km/h.

WHITE_P

unkel wrote: »

Spotted that within minutes of you posting. I removed the duplicate post



Requested how or where?

Sent a PM to kbannon.

WHITE_P

My point is that speeding is not as rampant on our roads as the authorities would like the public to think. Even if you travelled on R, N, and M roads all day and didn't stray too much either side of the relevant speed limit, your average speed still wouldn't be above the national speed limit.

The pro speed trap / camera campainge would try and have you believe that every other driver is out there exceeding the speed limit to the point of being dangerous while they blantantly choose to ignore some of the more common and dangerous things people are doing while driving.

WHITE_P

Stekelly wrote: »

If I drive at 150mph for a few miles through a town but keep my average speed down to 60 over the course of my whole journey is it ok?

On what planet could you possibly drive at 150mph throught a town ? :rolleyes:

craichoe

WHITE_P wrote: »

My point is that speeding is not as rampant on our roads as the authorities would like the public to think. Even if you travelled on R, N, and M roads all day and didn't stray too much either side of the relevant speed limit, your average speed still wouldn't be above the speed national speed limit.

The pro speed trap / camera campainge would try and have you believe that every other driver is out there exceeding the speed limit to the point of being dangerous while they blantantly choose to ignore some of the more common and dangerous things people are doing while driving.

Our point is average speed means nothing ! .. average speed just means distance vs time taken. E.g. i could spend two hours in traffic doing 50kp/h and then do 150km/h for the next hour and my average speed would still be under the national speed limit.

MrPudding

I think he is using it just as a "for example." What he is really trying to say is that as you have questioned the goverment propaganda you are obviously an evil speeding child killer...... or something.

MrP

WHITE_P

craichoe wrote: »

Our point is average speed means nothing ! .. average speed just means distance vs time taken. E.g. i could spend two hours in traffic doing 50kp/h and then do 150km/h for the next hour and my average speed would still be under the national speed limit.

Read the tread will you, I don't mention traffic doing 50kp/h or 150km/h do I.

I do mention travelling at or about the relevant speed limit on various road types.

BrianD3

I'd say when it comes to open road driving the Irish are probably the slowest drivers in Europe. If I'm on an uncongested M-way doing the limit in good conditions I'll overtake many more cars than overtake me. Seems to me that there is a big group of drivers not happy going above about 100 km/h with another group not happy at travelling at over 80 km/h. I bet a lot of these drive at the same speed no matter what the conditions. 80 km/h through town or past a school also 80 km/h on a clear M-way :rolleyes: So they are both a dawdler and a speeder (and an idiot)

It is difficult to maintain a good average speed on single carriageway N road. You'll invariably get stuck in some convoy dawdling along behind a truck/horsebox/ould lad in an Almera. Not only do people drive slowly they drive up the arse of the car in front and don't overtake even when it's clearly safe to do so. A big tailback then builds up.

bonkey

WHITE_P wrote: »

Now I know its a calculation of average speed, but to me it shows (as well as what I see on the roads) that speeding is not at the epidemic levels that the authorities would like us to believe.

As several people have already pointed out, no, it doesn't show what you claim it shows. It shows that average speeds rarely exceed the maximum posted speed limit on a journey.

Some points on this....

You say your averate speed never gets near the "national speed limit", but you are (presumably) driving through towns for some of your journey. They do not operate on the national speed limit, they operate on a series of urban speed limits. Are you saying that your average speed never exceeds this as well, or will you conclude that you always speed through towns, and thus speeding inside urban areas is at epidemic levels?

If your average speed is below even the lowest speed limit that you pass, I would additionally note that at any red light you encounter, your speed is required to be 0. Your average speed is definitely above 0, so are you saying that your figures prove you crash every red light that you reach, and thus that people disobeying traffic lights is at epidemic levels?

If you're not saying these things, then it should be obvious to you that your logic is broken.

As a (more useful) point...I have often been on journeys (both here in Switzerland, and in Ireland) where I've seen the same car, multiple times on the same journey. Typically, it overtakes me and blasts off into the distance while I drive along at the speed-limit. Then it gets held up in traffic / at lights, and I catch up. Traffic clears, off it blasts at above-the-speed-limit again. I continue merrily along, again, at the posted limit. And so on.

By your logic, because I repeatedly catch this guy up he's not speeding even though to ever get away from me, he has to be, as when he loses me, I am driving at the posted speed-limit and he's leaving me behind.

smemon

yeah i think the fact overtaking is so commonplace shows how slow we really are....

driving at bang on 100km/hr, you'll come across people doing 80/90, pile of cars build up and if the car behind the dawdler doesn't overtake, it's frustration all round which leads to reckless/suicide overtaking...

bonkey

smemon wrote: »

driving at bang on 100km/hr, you'll come across people doing 80/90, pile of cars build up and if the car behind the dawdler doesn't overtake, it's frustration all round which leads to reckless/suicide overtaking...

Personally, the way I'd look at it is that over 100km, this 'dawdler' going at 90 would cost me approximately 6 minutes.

If so many people are getting so hung up over 6 minutes, I don't think the problem is someone else driving 10km below the speed limit

cashmni1

@ bonkey:
"I continue merrily along, again, at the posted limit. And so on."
And so on, and so on and so on.
People "blasting off over the speed limit" is not what the OP was talking about, but you knew that eh?

WHITE_P

Cheers BrianD3 and Smemon.

Finally some people who get the point. On national roads excluding stopping / slowing for town's / red lights (neither of which I mentioned in the thread), the average speed from what I've seen recently is typically around or below the national speed limits as posted, yet the authorities would like people to believe that speeding is at epidemic levels on our national roads, where they usually like to hide speed traps and no doubt will site most of the speed cameras, when rolled out, rather than actively policing speed limits where most needed, for example around the numerous schools that line our national roads and the many accident black spots that they can't be bothered to try and remove.

craichoe

WHITE_P wrote: »

Read the tread will you, I don't mention traffic doing 50kp/h or 150km/h do I.

I do mention travelling at or about the relevant speed limit on various road types.

Yup i read it.

WHITE_P wrote: »

Now I know its a calculation of average speed, but to me it shows (as well as what I see on the roads) that speeding is not at the epidemic levels that the authorities would like us to believe.

It shows you your AVERAGE speed.

For example, i drive 300 kilometers and stay at 100km/h on the nose the whole way, it will take 3 hours, covering 100 kilometers per 1 hour.

I drive 300 kilometers at varying speed say hit traffic and do 50 km in 1 hour, then horse it and do 150km for an hour then for the last hour do 100 km/h.

My average speed in both cases is ... guess what .. 100 kilometers/hour.

So .. what im saying is, i don't see what average speed proves with regard to speed limits etc ?

Can you prove differently ?

Fey!

craichoe wrote: »

Yup i read it.



It shows you your AVERAGE speed.

For example, i drive 300 kilometers and stay at 100km/h on the nose the whole way, it will take 3 hours, covering 100 kilometers per 1 hour.

I drive 300 kilometers at varying speed say hit traffic and do 50 km in 1 hour, then horse it and do 150km for an hour then for the last hour do 100 km/h.

My average speed in both cases is ... guess what .. 100 kilometers/hour.

So .. what im saying is, i don't see what average speed proves with regard to speed limits etc ?

Can you prove differently ?

What I believe the OP is saying is that if he drives 300km on a stretch of road that has a 100kph limit it will, in an ideal world, take 3 hours, wheras in reality it can take 4 hours, or 75kph average, due to dawdlers, road conditions, etc.

Not a difficult concept to grasp, but so many people on motors like to argue just to see their own ramblings.

ianobrien

This is my experience

For driving on the National primary route, I generally average 60 to 70kph. On national secondary routes, I average 50 to 60kph. On minor roads, I average 40 to 50kph.

I know that my max speed on the roads will be the speed limits, but that's my average and I use that to calculate journey times.

Oh, just checked the car. According the average speed jobbie in the car, I averaged 44kph over the last 1500km. Some of that was for driving on a motorway at 120kph plus.

craichoe

Fey! wrote: »

What I believe the OP is saying is that if he drives 300km on a stretch of road that has a 100kph limit it will, in an ideal world, take 3 hours, wheras in reality it can take 4 hours, or 75kph average, due to dawdlers, road conditions, etc.

Not a difficult concept to grasp, but so many people on motors like to argue just to see their own ramblings.

The only form of transportation that achieves that is a train.

Nowhere in the world will you get your average speed anywhere close to the speed limit.

You are right .. i don't get what the orginial post was about, is it a rant about driving in general ? Because its the same all over the world.

-Chris-

By the nature of these things, your average speed should NEVER be near the relevant speed limit.

The speed limit is the absolute max you can legally do. If you were on a perfectly empty, perfectly straight, perfectly flat road your average speed will be equal to the prevailing speed limit.
If anything interferes with that perfectness, your average speed will drop.

I don't get this thread at all...

Also, in my younger days (and pre-penalty points) I remember driving from Dublin to Cork holding a pretty constant 100mph whereever I could.
I travelled at night (2am-ish) so the roads were empty. I slowed down for towns appropriately. I averaged 57mph for the journey.

Was I wreckless for doing 100mph, at night, on 2 & 4 lane roads (without medians or street lamps), in a 1.4 Corolla? Yes.
Did my average speed reflect that? No.

Eoin

On a pretty unrelated note, does anyone ever look at the road trip data on their GPS? That can make for very depressing reading as it shows your moving / stopped time as well your average speed.

WHITE_P

Average speed could become very relevant if the following article is accurate.

http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/motoring/cameras-that-track-average-speed-to-be-set-up-here-1314081.html

mickdw

WHITE_P wrote: »

Average speed could become very relevant if the following article is accurate.

http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/motoring/cameras-that-track-average-speed-to-be-set-up-here-1314081.html

Yes but this will record your average speed over a few km of open road so there will be no slow areas to help you with your averages. You could of course drive a 150 mph past the first camera. Have a kitkat, then continue on your way at 150 mph past the second camera:D

smemon

Just had a check on my GPS there, not sure when i last reset the stats but i must start doing it weekly...

• Total time: 33hours 48 minutes
• Moving time: 31 hours 31 minutes.
• Moving Average = 74.9km/hr

About 15% of that time would be on motorways, 70% on national roads and 15% in town areas.

Excluding traffic lights, junctions/towns etc.. i'd say my national road average is 80km/hr.

Mainly thanks to tractors, old people, people who won't overtake when clear to do so, people who don't get up to speed when merging on to roads quickly enough...

I've said before, lorries and buses etc.. i can live with, but cars well below the limit - no excuses.

In my own experience, cars will build up behind you if you're going below 105km/hr.

Few people will overtake you at that speed and most are content to stay back.

Depending on how much traffic is behind me, i'll overtake if the car in front is doing 90km/hr or below (according to my GPS speedo).

More than that and i'll sit back as i deem it too risky, probably getting up to 115-120 if i overtook and bare in mind my GPS speedo is more accurate than a car's speedo so there's no underestimation.

If there's no traffic behind, i'll happily sit at 90km/hr behind the car in front if the roads are dodgy as i'm not annoying anyone behind me.

bonkey

cashmni1 wrote: »

@ bonkey:
"I continue merrily along, again, at the posted limit. And so on."
And so on, and so on and so on.
People "blasting off over the speed limit" is not what the OP was talking about, but you knew that eh?

The OP was making some bizarre claim that average speed indicates something about the prevalence of speeding.

I have an example of me and one other driver. One of us is speeding at every opportunity, the other not, and we end up with the same average speed.

There is no connection between average speed and whether or not the individual is speeding at points along the journey. None. Mathematically, there's none. Practically, there's none.

The OP, on the other hand, is trying to suggest that this non-existant connection somehow exists. See the bit where he says :

I know its a calculation of average speed, but to me it shows (as well as what I see on the roads) that speeding is not at the epidemic levels that the authorities would like us to believe.

If that is not suggesting there is a connection between average speed and speeding, then please explain to me what it is suggesting.

Seriously...you can shorten the first post to the following:

1) I drive a lot
2) I don't speed, nor am I a slow driver.
3) My average speed is below the speed limit
4) This shows that speeding is not at epidemic levels.

Now...if you can explain how points 1-3 establish point 4, I'll be amazed.

WHITE_P

Calm down bonkey you'll give yourself a nose bleed. It's only an observation of what I see on a daily basis mainly. The trip computer bit just amuses me. But then maybe I'm easily amused.

craichoe

WHITE_P wrote: »

Average speed could become very relevant if the following article is accurate.

http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/motoring/cameras-that-track-average-speed-to-be-set-up-here-1314081.html

These are already in the city i live in. Mainly on the motorways exiting the city, takes your average speed with a camera when entering the motorway and about 10km down the road. You can really see it make a difference, once people pass the camera they boot it !

WHITE_P

craichoe wrote: »

These are already in the city i live in. Mainly on the motorways exiting the city, takes your average speed with a camera when entering the motorway and about 10km down the road. You can really see it make a difference, once people pass the camera they boot it !

Fairly pointless having them there so, I would imagine.

craichoe

WHITE_P wrote: »

Fairly pointless having them there so, I would imagine.

Oh no .. definetely not, their on a section of the motorway where it goes from 8 lanes to 6 then 4 so traffic is increased. Gets everyone to slow down and drive bang on the speed limit also you have to swap lanes to get into the correct one for your exit, so theres alot more going on.

Definetly improves things as its easier to get into the correct lane when everyones doing 80kp/h rather than 120 kp/h.

Mr. Presentable

WHITE_P wrote: »

My point is that speeding is not as rampant on our roads as the authorities would like the public to think. .

Thank is plain untrue. If anything the opposite is true. For example, drive the M4 towards Maynooth at the limit and every other car truck etc will be going past you. Outside of a few stretches of M-Way where only a majority will be going past, if you travel at the limit you will be the slowest thing on the road.

breadmonkey

What bonkey said.

drunkdaz

nipplenuts wrote: »

Thank is plain untrue. If anything the opposite is true. For example, drive the M4 towards Maynooth at the limit and every other car truck etc will be going past you.

Biggest exaggeration ever? You do know the limit is 120kph? How fast do you think trucks can go? I used to drive this road daily and on the section to Maynooth I'd say the inside lane averages 90kph. M50 is even worse though...

WHITE_P

breadmonkey wrote: »

What bonkey said.

Please explain, as bonkey said quite a bit.

Mr. Presentable

drunkdaz wrote: »

Biggest exaggeration ever? You do know the limit is 120kph? How fast do you think trucks can go? I used to drive this road daily and on the section to Maynooth I'd say the inside lane averages 90kph. M50 is even worse though...

There's a long section of that road which is in roadworks at the moment - limited to 50-60kph

craichoe

Well if it makes anyone feel any better, its the same case all over Europe. Hence why GPS units have the speed camera databases. i do 120 kp/h on the slow lane on a dutch motorway, people are overtaking me in the fast lane and people are overtaking them on the overtaking lane

drunkdaz

nipplenuts wrote: »

There's a long section of that road which is in roadworks at the moment - limited to 50-60kph

What you clearly implied is that this was "always" the case, you didn't mention the roadworks. So you're taking it back, as you should. It's rubbish.

Road works speed limits and their relivence is a whole other discussion that has been done already (M50...).

20 second graph explaining how irrelevant average speed is to "speeding"

Assuming you must start at zero, and finish at zero,
then your average speed is brought down significantly by the time spent in lower speeds.

This graph shows average speed for journey (red line)
And time spent speeding and by how much (Red block)

people need to understand basic mathematical principles a little better me thinks...

WHITE_P

craichoe wrote: »

Oh no .. definetely not, their on a section of the motorway where it goes from 8 lanes to 6 then 4 so traffic is increased. Gets everyone to slow down and drive bang on the speed limit also you have to swap lanes to get into the correct one for your exit, so theres alot more going on.

Definetly improves things as its easier to get into the correct lane when everyones doing 80kp/h rather than 120 kp/h.

So they are effective where needed, interesting !!!

drunkdaz

I think the point the OP is trying to make is that in spite of what the media (and many on this forum) we are not a nation of raging speeders. Probably the opposite in general.

I cover large mileage. Most of this would be on Major N routes and motorways yet my average speed here always converges on 40kph. You just make far more progress abroad, people seem to dwadle less. I'm living in the UK now, and if you tried to drive at 60 or 70 kph on the m25 (a la the inside lane on the M50), well you'd be driven off the road by everyone else..

I have to admit I find it frustrating. I find the flow of traffic moves at 80kph on N routes outside of urban areas. It does grind me to have to drive in this while listening to some muppet dj on 2fm telling everyone to slow down.

Sure though, you use maths...

WHITE_P

drunkdaz wrote: »

I think the point the OP is trying to make is that in spite of what the media (and many on this forum) we are not a nation of raging speeders. Probably the opposite in general.

I cover large mileage. Most of this would be on Major N routes and motorways yet my average speed here always converges on 40kph. You just make far more progress abroad, people seem to dwadle less. I'm living in the UK now, and if you tried to drive at 60 or 70 kph on the m25 (a la the inside lane on the M50), well you'd be driven off the road by everyone else..

I have to admit I find it frustrating. I find the flow of traffic moves at 80kph on N routes outside of urban areas. It does grind me to have to drive in this while listening to some muppet dj on 2fm telling everyone to slow down.

Sure though, you use maths...

Thanks, you see what I'm getting at.

As for the raw maths it proves nothing.

javaboy

Neither does average speed.

fletch

I agree with the original poster, it's often quite surprising how low my average speed does be, even when driving on motorways and national primary routes. (Last week I took a motorway to work and averaged 9mph, 3 guesses which motorway it was ) I don't think the OP was condoning speeding or saying that nobody is speeding anymore, he was merely providing an observation.

Edit - I also see no problem with exceeding the speed limit in order to make a safe overtaking manoeuvre

WHITE_P

WHITE_P wrote: »

Thanks, you see what I'm getting at.

As for the raw maths it proves nothing.

please explain how you managed to come to your conclusion that the maths proves nothing?

WHITE_P

Deleted User wrote: »

please explain how you managed to come to your conclusion that the maths proves nothing?

See your own post above.

javaboy

The OP used maths to say that he/she doesn't think speeding is such a problem. Then people come along saying they agree with the OP's point because maths is nonsense.


The point Axl Rich Llama was making is that a low average speed over the length of a journey does not preclude a period of time where the speed limit was greatly exceeded. The average is pretty much irrelevant to judging whether a lot of speeding takes place.

craichoe

WHITE_P wrote: »

Thanks, you see what I'm getting at.

As for the raw maths it proves nothing.

Ok .. i still don't get it ..

I drive alot in Europe, during the course of a journey i'll do 200 - 220 km/h but my average speed over the entire journey never if rarely goes over 100 kp/h.

As for the maths comment .. wtf .. thats just a ridiculous statement

WHITE_P

craichoe wrote: »

Ok .. i still don't get it ..

I drive alot in Europe, during the course of a journey i'll do 200 - 220 km/h but my average speed over the entire journey never if rarely goes over 100 kp/h.

As for the maths comment .. wtf .. thats just a ridiculous statement

It's only an observation of what I see on a daily basis mainly.

As for the maths, others here have basically proved that it proves nothing, as some have said, you could drive way over the limit and then slow way down, althought why you would do that is beyond me.

Good drivers tend to be consistant in their driving, and I find that when driving consistantly at or about the speed limit, your average speed will still be well below the speed limit, obvisiously.

Get over the trip computer / maths bit will you's.

WHITE_P

WHITE_P wrote: »

It's only an observation of what I see on a daily basis mainly.

As for the maths, others here have basically proved that it proves nothing, as some have said, you could drive way over the limit and then slow way down, althought why you would do that is beyond me.
Where?

Good drivers tend to be consistant in their driving, and I find that when driving consistantly at or about the speed limit, your average speed will still be well below the speed limit, obvisiously.
Who said anything about good drivers? I thought we were discussing speeding?
Get over the trip computer / maths bit will you's.
So, ignore facts?

..

Balfa

drunkdaz wrote: »

I think the point the OP is trying to make is that in spite of what the media (and many on this forum) we are not a nation of raging speeders. Probably the opposite in general.

Ah, yes, by informing us of the average speed on the on-board computer in one person's car, the OP can prove that most people don't go above the speed limit.

OP, take a second to read your post...

WHITE_P wrote:

Very rarely does the average speed on the trip computer even get near the national speed limit

WHITE_P wrote:

I'm happy enough to travel at or about the posted speed limit

I think with those two statements, you've disproved your point about average speed having anything useful to show us. Thanks.

Out of interest, what is your average speed? Last time I checked, mine was about 38mph (I don't reset it for trips or anything), and yet I still sometimes approach 80mph on nice stretches of I-35 (limit: 60).