Making a living Live.

skiroo

Question: Do you think its possible to make a living from just playing live poker on the Dublin cash game scene?

lee_arama

Yes - but discipline is always the key. If you're showing a decent profit over a given session you can't exactly cut and run. Why? Cos noone'll play with you the next night.

You also pretty much need to cut out the drink since otherwise you'll arrive on for a game, find it hasn't started yet, and then go for one over in Bruxelles or MacDaid's or wherever.

ollyk1

skiroo wrote: »

Question: Do you think its possible to make a living from just playing live poker on the Dublin cash game scene?

This depends on the stakes you play imo. If I was an excellent omaha player and playing the big game in the Fitz then yeah. Playing 1/2 hl I have long run doubts.

sickpuppy

Of course its possible if you can put up with the unsociable hours the boredom of mostly playin 1 2 pl.
Of course there is omaha too.
If u playing live for aliving you will see very little daylight have to put in long hours and listen to the liker of bad beat joe and t chief tadhg giving poker advice not easy.
You can also make a living selling your arse on the street but would you want to do that?

skiroo

I dont play omaha, I dont know enough about it to comment, but my feelings are there is a little more gamble involved than hold'em.

Im looking to play 1/2 PLH.
Play about 50 hours a week.
Play Sunday to Monday between 8/9 and closing.
Play mostly in the Fitz and possible the SE.

I know the most profitable time is Friday/Saturday night, but I want my weekends free.

Im setting myself a target of 30 Euro an hour profit.

Any thoughts?

El Stuntman

sickpuppy wrote: »

You can also make a living selling your arse on the street but would you want to do that?

you come out with some corkers sickpuppy! :pac::pac::pac:

I've had this discussion with several people - it all depends on what your definition of 'making a living' is. I'm sure a student/young person can sustain a decent live cash return for their time and relative lack of responsibilities etc.

anyone wanting to make real money (i.e. 150k+ a year) would have to making the bulk of it from online imo. I'd be surprised if there is more than a handful of people making 25k+ a year from playing live cash in Dublin

Playing 1/2 or 1/2/5 live < multi-tabling online as regards hourly earn even when you take into account the worse players/deep stacks etc

5starpool

I know one or two doing it, but it is not something that appeals to me I had a very big money cushion behind me as the swings can be very dangerous and stressful at times. Regular work may be crap but knowing that come a certain time in the month you will get a lump sum in reliably is a good safety net.

lee_arama

Well don't look at it from an hourly rate perspective; you'll wreck your head that way.

If you pick you over 200 euro per session (and with Omaha that's quite easiy done) then you're in reasonable shape.

I wouldn't say that Omaha has more gamble in it, but there's definitely more risk if you mis-calculate your outs when pushing a draw.

And I think at 1/2 there's plenty cash to be made and/or lost. Pot sizes pre-flop are often close to 40... That tends to grow post flop for obvious reasons.

El Stuntman

OP, it might help if you can give a little flavour of your circumstances and poker history?

Shivverz

Just try card counting. count is 24 im allin

skiroo

I mean my hourly rate will be evaluated at the end of each month.

say five sessions a week @ 8hrs per session

averaging 120 - 160 hours per month

looking for 3600 - 4800 profit per month

Thats give or take 55K per year (no tax), which is 'real money' to me.

Is there enough cash out there to sustain this for a year? I am going to do a test for May and June, and will post my session resluts here.

5starpool

lee_arama wrote: »

If you pick you over 200 euro per session (and with Omaha that's quite easiy done) then you're in reasonable shape.

Massive losses are very easily possible in Omaha too though.

I doubt the OP should start playing Omaha if he plans to try and play full time though. It could be expensive learning.

I know Phantom Lord did this a couple of years ago and though tit was easy money to beat all the fish in the Fitz every night, but after a few weeks of going well it went pear shaped I believe. Also, your sanity would need to be called into question if you played in the holdem games around town for 50 hours a week.

sickpuppy

Where do you get 30euro an hour win rate from?
No matter how good a player you are you can have bad losing nights especially if u are deep stacked.
If you sit at a table for 8 or 9 hours you will be deep stacke probably and due to a suckout bad play etc your stack will be gone.
Its possible to lsoe 3k pots live in 1 2 pl being on the wrong side of a few of them in a row will set back your hourly rate a lot.
Id reccomend you to give online a good shot,if you play live for aliving and travel into town and play 2 hours in you dont feel like playing what you gonna do? stay probably and not play your best at least online you browse porn news read emails etc or even better turn off the pc.
It is possible and good luck with whatever you do but putting in 50 hours a week live seems very tough too me
:pac:

El Stuntman

skiroo wrote: »

I know the most profitable time is Friday/Saturday night, but I want my weekends free.

this will definitely hurt your expectation - if you're doing it as your job, you need to treat it professionally and play at the times where potential profits are highest

5starpool

skiroo wrote: »

I mean my hourly rate will be evaluated at the end of each month.

say five sessions a week @ 8hrs per session

averaging 120 - 160 hours per month

looking for 3600 - 4800 profit per month

Thats give or take 55K per year (no tax), which is 'real money' to me.

Is there enough cash out there to sustain this for a year? I am going to do a test for May and June, and will post my session resluts here.

Sounds easy, but sadly it is a bit harder than that in practice unless you are an exceptional player.

El Stuntman

skiroo wrote: »

Is there enough cash out there to sustain this for a year? I am going to do a test for May and June, and will post my session resluts here.

set up a blog and update it daily, good way to track progress

ollyk1

skiroo wrote: »

I mean my hourly rate will be evaluated at the end of each month.

say five sessions a week @ 8hrs per session

averaging 120 - 160 hours per month

looking for 3600 - 4800 profit per month

Thats give or take 55K per year (no tax), which is 'real money' to me.

Is there enough cash out there to sustain this for a year? I am going to do a test for May and June, and will post my session resluts here.

I'll take a prop bet with you that you won't sustain it over a 6 month period playing 1/2 plh or nlh. Say 26k in 6 months playing live.

Upto a €500 bet taken at evens. (Subject to me finding out who you are and us agreeing some method of verifying your live poker earnings.) Any results from other poker playing wouldn't count obviously.

Edit: I see its a two month thing you are planning. I'll still take a bet but it'll have to be smaller due to the variance, how about 100? 9k in two months?

bops

i'd highly recommend moving between 4/5 different venues

pok3rplaya

dont do it

skiroo

bops wrote: »

i'd highly recommend moving between 4/5 different venues

I have definitely thought about this, are there four or five venues? I know the Fitz will definitely have a cash game available from 8 onwards, so thats why I have targeted that as my main venue.

I presume the SE has a cash game going at the same time, are there other venues that have cash games running from 8 onwards every night?

pok3rplaya wrote: »

dont do it

Any particular reason/reasons?

ditpoker

skiroo wrote: »

I mean my hourly rate will be evaluated at the end of each month.

say five sessions a week @ 8hrs per session

averaging 120 - 160 hours per month

looking for 3600 - 4800 profit per month

Thats give or take 55K per year (no tax), which is 'real money' to me.

Is there enough cash out there to sustain this for a year? I am going to do a test for May and June, and will post my session resluts here.

or get a job? pay tax, have sick leave, pension, health scheme, stress free, no losing streaks, etc. and sociable...

bops

also playing the weekends is a must - take your weekend on monday and spend the time counting all those easy $$$'s

...honestly tho - day-on/day off would be a good way to do it

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

Marq

move up levels.

Sirtoyou

bops wrote: »

i'd highly recommend moving between 4/5 different venues

Excellent suggestion there is such a large choice of venues up there that it will always pay to move around.It will hurt your profitability to become known as the local Pro in 1 venue.There is such a large fishpool in Dublin and surrounding areas ie. within 1 hour that it should be used to your advantage.I hear wexford is great lol.

jbravado

skiroo wrote: »

looking for 3600 - 4800 profit per month

The higher end of this estimation is fantasy imo-unless you are playing a big game which happens to be very very soft. If you have a mortgage,car loan family etc then this just isnt feasible. Its ok having a 5k month or whatever but it will be the exception rather than the rule playing live-at least in Dublin.
I dont think L-Dawg is wrong is suggesting you should have 50k to have a stab at doing this.

skiroo

Sirtoyou wrote: »

Excellent suggestion there is such a large choice of venues up there that it will always pay to move around.It will hurt your profitability to become known as the local Pro in 1 venue.There is such a large fishpool in Dublin and surrounding areas ie. within 1 hour that it should be used to your advantage.I hear wexford is great lol.

I think I might take that suggestion of rotating locations seriously, sounds great. Will eliviate some boredom too.....thanks.

jbravado wrote: »

The higher end of this estimation is fantasy imo-unless you are playing a big game which happens to be very very soft. If you have a mortgage,car loan family etc then this just isnt feasible. Its ok having a 5k month or whatever but it will be the exception rather than the rule playing live-at least in Dublin.

I think youre right to be honest, the lower estimate is my true target, the higher one on a good months and to equalise bad months of say a small profit or even sometimes a loss.

ditpoker

Marq wrote: »

move up levels.

YAY! :pac::pac::pac:

skiroo

jbravado wrote: »

I dont think L-Dawg is wrong is suggesting you should have 50k to have a stab at doing this.

I have about 13K

I remember Chris Ferguson advising that you should only play with 2% - 5% of your roll. If €400 is my buyin for a session, this would allow me to risk 5% or 650 Euro for each session, does anyone disagree with this.

50K seems very high.

El Stuntman

skiroo wrote: »

I have about 13K

I remember Chris Ferguson advising that you should only play with 2% - 5% of your roll. If €400 is my buyin for a session, this would allow me to risk 5% or 650 Euro for each session, does anyone disagree with this.

50K seems very high.

3 bad nights in a deepstack game and half of that is gone

edit: aha you beat me to it. If you are playing the NL in the SE, there will be quite a few buying in for 800+

ditpoker

skiroo wrote: »

I have about 13K

I remember Chris Ferguson advising that you should only play with 2% - 5% of your roll. If €400 is my buyin for a session, this would allow me to risk 5% or 650 Euro for each session, does anyone disagree with this.

50K seems very high.

if all you have is 13k then this is a TERRIBLE idea.
if you 13k to play with then gamble.. but lloyd is closer with 50k.

skiroo

El Stuntman wrote: »

3 bad nights in a deepstack game and half of that is gone

I'll never risk more than 600 in any one session. And I plan to buy in for 200 at a time.

3 buy ins and I go home.

If that happend in the first twenty minutes, then i'll just have to deal with that.

R__J

I played full time during last summer. It's a creepish existance and really turned me off poker.

myflipflops

2 months strikes me as a very, very short period of time as a test for profitability. I'm not going to work out how many hands you'll see in that time but it will be a fraction of what i would consider playing online if i was to try and flatten out the variance and give a good sense of potential long run profit.

Also, to stay in 2 main places and avoid playing weekends would ruin any chance immediatley. I would advise moving around casinos over the course of a night, let alone the course of a week. Play in the Fitz/SE for an early game then get to the Jackpot etc for the drunkards later in the night. Playing when you're drunk would be out the window too as this is now your job.

Personally, i don't think this is something you will do profitably, especially off a 13k bankroll (50k sounds right). If you do decide to give it a go then consider it a genuine business venture. Write up a business plan for yourself like any person starting out on their own would. Consider expenses, potential profit, 'the life rake' etc etc and make an informed decision on whether this will be a long run, profitable venture (would a high risk bank lend you money to attempt it?).

Finally, if you do try it then good luck and keep us updated!

pierce hard

skiroo wrote: »

And I plan to buy in for 200 at a time.

€200 isnt enough to be buying into a 1-2 live game these days imo due to the number of players playing deep. You are better off buying in for the full 600 rather than 3 shots of 200.

Sirtoyou

Although its good for discipline your idea of 8 hours a night 5 nights a week rota is certainly not sustainable.Live poker played well should be very tiring if your concentration levels are where they should be.Part of whats good about being a live pro is the freedom and flexability of your hours.Id recommend throwing a mix of online hours in too nothing too stressfull and keep the live sessions to 5/6 bursts.If you run well you will have no problem putting in the hours but live poker and bad beats are tougher to take and tilt control has to be a major factor.You need a thick skin for live poker.Also as Lloyd says the games ere 1/2 in name only.In the nl games online the average opening raise in 1/2 is to 7 live its between 12 and 25.these games play very big more like 3/6 or 5/10.
The best of luck with this.There is a decent living to be made but you must be able for the emotional swings as well as the bankroll swings.Also friday and saturday nights should be part of your roster.Btw good good luck with the sleep patterns (yawn ive just woken)

Killme00

R__J wrote: »

I played full time during last summer. It's a creepish existance and really turned me off poker.

OP you should listen to this guy. It will turn you off poker. Why dont you try online, i thinks its a much safer bet and your bankroll would be safer. Spend 1.5k on a computer and a comfortable chair and desk. Set yourself up to play like a pro and you will see better results than taxi-ing to and from cardrooms at all hours of the day.

You need mental and physical discipline to sit at a cash table for 9 hours 4 days a week. You also need great personal hygiene!

Sirtoyou

skiroo wrote: »

I'll never risk more than 600 in any one session. And I plan to buy in for 200 at a time.

3 buy ins and I go home.

If that happend in the first twenty minutes, then i'll just have to deal with that.

Terrible thinking how much you lose should not be your reason for leaving a game.It should be the softness of the game or your physical or mental condition dictate this.

Sirtoyou

Btw welcome to boards mind the clique:cool:

El Stuntman

skiroo wrote: »

I'll never risk more than 600 in any one session. And I plan to buy in for 200 at a time.

well then you won't be maximising your expectation - this is stupid

Glowingmind

Personally, i think getting a regular 9-5 job would be infinitely superior to trying to make a living the way you're proposing. They're not that bad if you can find one you like. If you're really serious about making a living playing poker, online is the much better way to go.

skiroo

Thanks for all the advice, I do take on board all the above, 13 K probably isnt enough, and it is definitely going to be harder than I expect it to be, but as Ive never tried live cash as a job, Im going to give it a shot. I'll never know unless I try, right??

Also it wont be the end of the world if it does go wrong, Im just going to go for it.

I will keep you lads updated, thanks.

mickc

how long have you been playing? (havent seen this if its been answered before)

how many live hours do you currently play in a month?

your roll is 13k.. did you build your roll from working a 9-5 or by playing?

if you play a lot in the dublin clubs someone on here may know you/your game and give some better feedback?

pok3rplaya

If you have no family to support etc then w/e go for it but I'd guess you will want to kill yourself after about 3 weeks/1 downswing.

skiroo

mickc wrote: »

how long have you been playing? (havent seen this if its been answered before)

how many live hours do you currently play in a month?

your roll is 13k.. did you build your roll from working a 9-5 or by playing?

if you play a lot in the dublin clubs someone on here may know you/your game and give some better feedback?

Over five years. I have played online poker but dont like it.
Probably about 35 - 40
No I saved it working a 9-5, which I gave up a week ago.
I dont really play in the Dublin clubs, I have done in the past. I dont really know anyone that plays live poker in Dublin.

El Stuntman

skiroo wrote: »

I dont really play in the Dublin clubs, I have done in the past. I dont really know anyone that plays live poker in Dublin.

hmmm, we have been levelled...

skiroo

El Stuntman wrote: »

hmmm, we have been levelled...

What does that mean? :):):):):):):):)

El Stuntman

skiroo wrote: »

What does that mean? :):):):):):):):)

it means you've been taking the piss

now go away

skiroo

El Stuntman wrote: »

it means you've been taking the piss

now go away

Henestly I havent been taking the piss, I play most of my live poker in the UK, but I have played a fair bit before in the Fitz, I am coming back to ireland in a couple of weeks after finishing a contract and I am going to play poker instead of starting another contract.

I dont know anyone that plays in dublin because I havent been playing there in a couple of years.

SpencerJames

let me get this right? this is your business plan?

• You are going to play live cash for a living.
• Plan on playing 50hrs a week.
• You are not gonna play Friday and Saturday.
• You are only gonna risk 600 a night buying in at 200 a go.
• You estimate you are gonna make 55k a year.
• You have only a bankroll of 13k.

Ok firstly you are completly naive. Would you pass this plan if you were a bank manager? eh......no so why pass it with your own money. To make any sort of a living at it you need to play the big games, if you insist on playing holdem then the Se is the only place to play. The No Limit game plays big. You would have to buy in deep at least 800+ and you would certainly have to play the weekends. At best you could possibly average 3k a month. It is ludacris to think that buying in at 200 a go your gonna make 30 an hour average! This has more holes in it than a fishing net! But I invite you to buy in for 200 a go at the Se game 3 times max a night and wish you the best.

skiroo

SpencerJames wrote: »

let me get this right? this is your business plan?

• You are going to play live cash for a living.
• Plan on playing 50hrs a week.
• You are not gonna play Friday and Saturday.
• You are only gonna risk 600 a night buying in at 200 a go.
• You estimate you are gonna make 55k a year.
• You have only a bankroll of 13k.

Ok firstly you are completly naive. Would you pass this plan if you were a bank manager? eh......no so why pass it with your own money. To make any sort of a living at it you need to play the big games, if you insist on playing holdem then the Se is the only place to play. The No Limit game plays big. You would have to buy in deep at least 800+ and you would certainly have to play the weekends. At best you could possibly average 3k a month. It is ludacris to think that buying in at 200 a go your gonna make 30 an hour average! This has more holes in it than a fishing net! But I invite you to buy in for 200 a go at the Se game 3 times max a night and wish you the best.

Mention poker to any bank manager, and the answer would be NO NO NO.