S04E03 - The Ties That Bind

Pepe LeFrits

It's coming up on that time of week again (hurrah!).

User45701

Hey HEY HEY
Thats not on now!

Start the topic when you see the episode released that way others know to start looking, i see the topic and i ring a mate who is at home tell him to do to ** and check and he says there nothing and i start getting upset

then i looked in the topic and releaised it wasent out yet...

It will be out in a little over 13 hours

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

haven't slept yet, too stoned.

wow
just wow

kally

indian chick with super cylon powers, the final five do have some sort of programming, cylon genocide, the baby is important..

wow

i'm def getting the Hd rip of this later on

Sherifu

Obviously stoned :pac:

Sherifu

Wow, just wow.

Guessed what Cavil had planned after his democracy comment.

Didn't see what happened to Cally coming at all.

Kara is talking more and more like a skinjob. Mutiny anyone?

I think Lee's story has been well handled. I'm happy they're bringing back Zerrick into the plot.

What's going on between Cavil and Boomer? :eek:

Brilliant episode all in all.

Johnny Storm

Very good ep.
Starduck as Captain Queeg = not much of a surprise and not very dramatically effective either.
Cylon infighting = blah blah. IMHO the internal Cylon stuff is the weakest link on BSG. It's just so obvious that no-one has a plan.
I still think Tigh would give himself up if he was to be true to his character.
Potentially interesting development with new Apollo and old Apollo.
Cally though - I didn't see THAT one coming :eek: although this was one time were the flash-forward just after the titles DID give away a key moment.

Edit: Snerifu - I didn't see your post before I made mine.
Edited again: I forgot to add the best bit: "Weapons Locker 1701D". Bwahhahahahah!

Gonzo_Reporter

Great episode.
A Cylon on Cylon war cool! Especially liked that evil look off that toaster who was cleaning the blood... could mean that they will revolt and kill every skin job in the end!

The part with Cally was screwed up and shocking, interesting to see how that will effect them.
Yeah there is something going on between Cavil and Boomer. She was dancing for him in the last esp. He never got anything like that in 'Quantum Leap'
Beginning to loath Rosylan and her movement towards a dictator. But i do still think Zerrick will double cross Lee.

No Baltar this esp probably too busy fraking lol

Just a side point... I do hate the way that they show moment from the show at the beggining I always look away. They seem to do that a lot in American shows like American Chopper and Mythbuster, its like 5 minutes at the beginning.

User45701

Ye i dont like the whole thing where they spoil the episode, i always look away because it spoils so much.

Mordeth wrote: »

haven't slept yet, too stoned.

wow
just wow

kally

indian chick with super cylon powers, the final five do have some sort of programming, cylon genocide, the baby is important..

wow

i'm def getting the Hd rip of this later on

Wait till wendesday - didnt someone say that sky's HD is slightly higher or bettewr frame rate than the US's?

Anyway this was actually the first time i have ever watched a new BSG and not been stoned, i kinda stopped in the last week cause there are a few things i need to get done. Still what an azming episode.

Caprica Six? Lost? I dont see how, I guess she got out somehow. What an episode though. Im very happy with how fast its all moving. And as someone said it will be good to have Tom back with the lee story

Gonzo_Reporter

Forgot to say a few things...

On the other thread Mordeth thought that Cally's baby was important... Id agree but it would mean Tory knows more than the other 3.

Interesting to see that Anders is on the Demetrius. Also while on that point, I have a little knowledge of Greek history (I've always like the stories about their gods etc), Demetrius comes from the feminine name Demeter which means 'Earth Mother'. Humm coincidence?!?!? And is the sister of Zues (had to look up that part).

Peace

That was dark.... I'll miss Cally.

Overheal

Sherifu wrote: »

Wow, just wow.

And where in the craphola did you find that so fast ''

edit: whoops wrong search string.

WHERE THE FOOK ARE THE SPOILER WARNINGS?

Pepe LeFrits

Savage.

IamBeowulf

Final 4: 2 good, 2 bad?
Tigh is obviously at war with himself. He looks more weary and ticked off at himself than ever. Tyrol is remoresful, hopeful for the future, and at the end, lost.
However Torey is clearly vicious and Anders showed alot of aggression in the bedroom (nothing unusual but it mightve been a sloppy way of hinting at his inner Cylonism---its my word haha)

robby^5

FRAK YEAH! CALLY IS DEAD! \o/

Worst character ever, all she ever did was cry and moan, never got attached to her and I'm very glad she's gone, this'll make things much more interesting with the chief.

I'm quite interested to see the fate of the six-led cylon chips, is this the end of the civil war already?

Dr. Baltar

This was the first "excellent" episode in Season 4 so far in my opinion.
Although I never liked Cally, I really did not expect that!


My respect for Tory just went up a notch.


It will be interesting to see how this is going to play out.

€5 says the Chief gets depressed and kills himself like he did in his dreams.

Johnny Storm

Sir Baralot wrote: »

My respect for Tory just went up a notch

:eek:

ghouldaddy07

ok episode probly would have enjoyed it more if I hadnt of known cally was gona bite the dust before it aired.

anyone else think the starbucks painting looked like a possible ship of lights in the scene after kara and anders have the sex

tvnutz

Good episode. Very frakked up. Is Tory programmed or what? Does she know or just think there is something important about the Chief and Cally's child? She was just plain evil,was it just self-preservaton that she killed Cally or does she know more than the other 3?

Cylon civil war is interesting but of course we know the 6's and Sharons won't get killed mainly because they are 2 of the series regulars. Would like to see D'Anna unboxed at some point as well.

eob

I'm sorry, I'm a huge fan of BSG... but WTF was that all about? It just turned from being an incredible piece of television into a drawn out snuff movie. Just because it's the last series we don't need to see a dramatic conclusion to every characters story arc.

This is what is incredibly frustrating about BSG. At times, it is RD Moore at his absolute best, at others, it seems the show was written with absolutely no consideration for what people want to watch. I'm not talking about dumbing down the show to an 'Osbournes' level of viewing, but, it might make it slightly more watchable if, for example, not every episode wasn't a trip into depression central.

Yes, it is a dark show, but the beauty of some great 'dark' pieces of television is that they exude so much humanity. Band of Brothers, The Sopranos.. there's two ground breaking, incredible TV shows right there which consistently spliced in a bit of humour to incredibly dark storylines.

This episode was so pointlessly dark, so full on inconsistencies. Disappointing.

Titainus

that was amazing.. i can't believe a sifi tv show can actually shock and disturb me, and at the same time keep me glued to it

lostexpectation

why didn't cally go, ah my baby is a freak. she didn't seem to be repulsed by it

Gonzo_Reporter

A reply to eob's post.

I agree with you in some parts but disagree with you on others and i hope i havent missed your point.

I dont think the episode was pointless dark. There was nothing particular positive about it Yes but in every story arc the sh!t was hitting the fan. Everything once thought to be reliable was crumbling... Cylons nolonger acting as one, democracy failing not getting closer to Earth etc etc
I remember an interview I saw with the writers when the series first came out. Moore summarised the plot saying it was about exploring the things that people would do in impossible situations and the hard decisions they have to make.
Thats how I justify the airlock scene, Tory (whether or not she was programmed to) had to do it because she couldnt save the baby and Cally as Cally would have exposed them.

Nor has this been the first time some one non-cylon has been flushed out of the airlock, yes she was an innocent yes she was a mother but frankly i would have been more disappointing if she was saved at the last minute, Moore would have failed to do his job if he had. We shouldnt get complacent about the show just because its the final season and knowing they eventually find Earth. This show wouldnt be so popular if it couldnt continue to shock us. The show has got edgier and i like it.

Also this was not as shocking or dark as the scenes in Razor. Or the suicide boomers in the Webisodes from between season 2-3 which really mirrored the every day reality in Iraq at that time.

I do agree that with you just because its the last series it doesnt have to mean that every story arc has to be finished. But atleast your not kept wondering.

Wow what a rant.... sorry... apparently i like BSG more than i thought.

Overheal

Its easy enough to understand Torri if you remember what to look for. The whole Awakening thing has recreated her character and by her own admission she suddenly just feels 'alive' - for example being far more sensitive to stimulus like sex and ambrosia.

She doesnt need to know anything special about the baby to see the "Duh" in it: Its a Cylon-Human Hybrid Baby. Torri knew that. Duh! Worth hanging on to? Yes. Worth hanging on to Calli? No because a) she'd expose them and b) she wanted to kill herself anyway and c) Torri has gone a bit nymph and wants to jump Tyrol.

Cylon Civil War: interesting still. Like seeing the Centurions tbh. Curious to how it will all play out. Being machines it will probably be something rather simple and formulaic so I won't bother speculating else I may ruin the surprise

Spoiler/Intro clip at the start of episodes: Whomever has been making the torrent I use to watch these eps has been courteous enough to snip them whenever he deems that it reveals something too important. Good on him whoever he is.

So the only thing I knew was from this thread that something happened to Calli in this episode - I managed to be shocked still by the turnaround in Torri's behavior at the end there. Cracking good stuff.

Starbuck's comments about feeling alienated from her body are interesting. Again, I don't think she's a Cylon at all, but something else entirely.

Johnny Storm

IMHO Seasons 1 and 2 were better balanced in terms of dark, depressing themes v. humour, sexuality.

Overheal

we're 3 eps into this one. let it settle.

cbaoth

**** HERE BE SPOILERS !!!!!! *****************

When Cally went into the launch tube with the baby, I said to myself, this is probably the most dramatic moment on BSG for quite a while (season 3 post new caprica was dissappointing for me), then Tori arrives an I'm thinking, "she's going to talk her down, tell her she's wrong, go back to her husband blah,blah" and then, "WHAM", bye bye Cally.

I think from now on, whenever a minor character gets major screen time, they are going to die, remember Kat?

Cbaoth

Wow. Really enjoyed that episode.

Praetorian

Cally was an annoying character at the best of times. It wasn't that shocking for me that she got sucked out of the ship we have seen that before afterall! I wonder will Tyrol suspect Tory's involvement in the next episode. All of the apollo stuff in season 4 so far has been absolute rubbish.

Profiler

Johnny Storm wrote: »

I forgot to add the best bit: "Weapons Locker 1701D". Bwahhahahahah!

I don't get that bit? what is that reference to

Pepe LeFrits

The Enterprise D's registry number.

Sherifu

The last serial number emblazoned on the starship Enterprise.

eob

Thanks for the great non flame war responses

My general feeling is that Galactica is a show which showed huge potential. Watch a few episodes and it really shows Stargate up in terms of character development, production quality, story telling, relevance to recent events etc.

However, what Stargate does incredibly well is appeal to pretty much everybody, it's easy to follow, plenty of bottle episodes.

Actually, SG is a bit of a bad example. Take ER. ER does incredibly depressing stuff where drug addicts freeze to death and that sort of thing, but they know how to write a show which also doesn't just drown in its own atmosphere. A simple example would be when that fat guy on the desk, Gerry, blew the front doors off the hospital with an RPG. Not entirely believable as a sentence, but as a scene it worked perfectly. Also if there's a relationship coming apart, they contrast it nicely with someone new getting their freak on.

An hour of disfunction just does not make appealling television, you have Thrace & Anders coming apart, you have the democracy coming apart, you have Cally being airlocked, the presidents aide who's name escapes me coming apart, you have the cylons falling apart, Roslyn in a painful cancer treatment scene... It's just an unappealling hour of drudgery. I mean, you stomp home from work, you want to see some entertaining TV, not a solid hour of depression on a stick?

I just think that while the individual scenes are beautifully written, and I adore the show, there's been no attempt on behalf of the writers to adjust the course of the show (pun intended) to appeal to a wider audience, something which could've given us a few more series.

fguihen

Fantastic stuff!!!! what an episode. I for one was not happy to see Cally go. She was so innocent and really could have added to the Chief's struggle further on, but it still makes his future story interesting.

As for Tori Knowing more than the other 3, I dont think its that she knows more, but shes not fighting the new impulse/urges/instincts that go with being a cylon. chief, anders and Tigh all hate the idea but Tori is embracing these new changes that have suddenly been "switched on". this would explain why she is behaving more like a skin job than the other 3. it also could show that the final 5 are more like the skin jobs than we care to think, but it just takes a while for them to overcome their human lives and embrace cylonism ( it took boomer ages to accept it but look at her now).

They still are different from the skin jobs 1-6, much more "human". also, we now have two cylon children. they, along with the chief and possibly anders and Tigh, will be a key to bringing the cylons and humans to gether as they really arnt very different. we dont know enough about the differences. we know cylons can be programmed and downloaded into new body's, who's to say the differences are only very slight ( a small difference in the brain that allows download of consciousness etc).



on the issue of thinking that the writers could have altered the show to give a few more seasons, im totally happy its not being stretched out. It would end up like x files and lost otherwise, just dragging fans along for tiny dribbles of a storyline that looks like it will never end. the reason i started watching BSG is because i knew it would be 4 series, concise, planned from the beginning to be 4 series so your not being jerked around.

Profiler

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

The Enterprise D's registry number.

Ahhhh now I get it! Cheers

Sherifu

eob wrote: »

I just think that while the individual scenes are beautifully written, and I adore the show, there's been no attempt on behalf of the writers to adjust the course of the show (pun intended) to appeal to a wider audience, something which could've given us a few more series.

Do you think that would be a good thing for the show? Should they pretend it's not a sci-fi show like the Lost guys tried to do.[most recent show I could think of - no offence to Lost] Lost felt protracted enough at times because there was no end in sight. I got the same feeling with a few BSG season 3 episodes. I'd love to see it go on but there's only so far you can go with the finding Earth storyline. There's a lot to be said for going out while your on top.

*cough* X-Files *cough*

wyk

eob wrote: »

However, what Stargate does incredibly well is appeal to pretty much everybody, it's easy to follow, plenty of bottle episodes.

ER is not sci fi, but Stargate is(believe it or not). The fact the gate appeals to so many (sci-fi)people is what makes it a bit too camp for many. BG is non camp, non feel-good, and only sci-fi in wrappings. The story is more about human nature than about the technology and flashing lights. It's a story about human sacrifice, suffering, and the question of whether they even deserve to survive. So, we are going to see some dark episodes without the comic releif you might see on showtime and hbo. BG takes itself seriously.

This brings us back to the Cylon question. Has everyone here missed how the skin jobs have started treating the toasters the exact same way the humans used to? "They're tools...". I wonder what will become of this...will it all come full-circle? Saying "please" is only gonna go so far. Will even human facsimiles be so human they also end up destroying themselves? Makes me wonder what the others are talking about when they say it's all filler...


WYK

User45701

Very true I amexpecting some very dark episodes combing up. Good point about the cylons treating raiders and centurians like humans imagine a 3 way cylons civil war?

I thought the last two episodes have ended very well

BKtje

Starbuck's comments about feeling alienated from her body are interesting.

Indeed, she seems to be going through the exact opposite of what Torri (Tory?) is going through. One feels next to nothing and the other has never felt more alive.

eob

Surely you can see what I'm getting at though? I mean, we're hardcore geeks, we're here on boards talking about BSG, for crying out loud, of course we're going to love the show, but... even I was completely turned off by this episode. It would've been nice if RD Moore had decided to show at least some light at the end of the tunnel instead of an hour of disfunction. Trust me, I love how 'real' BSG is, and you'll never see a scene as good as Odama telling the chief what happened in the end of the show, but, I feel that there's a lot to be desired in the screenwriting to contribute balance.

Take... Scrubs for example, most light hearted popcorn comedy show out there, but they still take the time out to do the odd serious piece of storytelling on unexpected pregnancy, death, disease, etc.

wyk

I dunno. I liked it. Surely less depressing than watching the news...

WYK

eob wrote: »

Surely you can see what I'm getting at though? I mean, we're hardcore geeks, we're here on boards talking about BSG, for crying out loud, of course we're going to love the show, but... even I was completely turned off by this episode. It would've been nice if RD Moore had decided to show at least some light at the end of the tunnel instead of an hour of disfunction. Trust me, I love how 'real' BSG is, and you'll never see a scene as good as Odama telling the chief what happened in the end of the show, but, I feel that there's a lot to be desired in the screenwriting to contribute balance.

Take... Scrubs for example, most light hearted popcorn comedy show out there, but they still take the time out to do the odd serious piece of storytelling on unexpected pregnancy, death, disease, etc.

5uspect

I felt the last few episodes have dragged a lot a times. The ending of this episode really picked things up tho. I still feel that something is missing, the Apollo story better go somewhere soon...

Overheal

Johnny Storm wrote: »

"Weapons Locker 1701D". Bwahhahahahah!

....right. Report to sickbay Johnny.
Besides that I think it kinda looks like it says DROID in 1337 5P34K.

fguihen wrote: »

As for Tori Knowing more than the other 3, I dont think its that she knows more, but shes not fighting the new impulse/urges/instincts that go with being a cylon. chief, anders and Tigh all hate the idea but Tori is embracing these new changes that have suddenly been "switched on". this would explain why she is behaving more like a skin job than the other 3. it also could show that the final 5 are more like the skin jobs than we care to think, but it just takes a while for them to overcome their human lives and embrace cylonism ( it took boomer ages to accept it but look at her now).

Thats sounds like a good-fit description of Torri. Now if everyone here can vote on how we will spell her name... poll anyone?

on the issue of thinking that the writers could have altered the show to give a few more seasons, im totally happy its not being stretched out. It would end up like x files and lost otherwise, just dragging fans along for tiny dribbles of a storyline that looks like it will never end. the reason i started watching BSG is because i knew it would be 4 series, concise, planned from the beginning to be 4 series so your not being jerked around.

Agreed. I'll be gutted if they turn up in a year saying "Hey, we're gonna go for a 5th." cos you know its gonna be dodgey.

wyk wrote: »

This brings us back to the Cylon question. Has everyone here missed how the skin jobs have started treating the toasters the exact same way the humans used to? "They're tools...". I wonder what will become of this...will it all come full-circle? Saying "please" is only gonna go so far. Will even human facsimiles be so human they also end up destroying themselves? Makes me wonder what the others are talking about when they say it's all filler...

Missed that actually. But then I have stopped watching this stoned good catch.

eob wrote: »

Surely you can see what I'm getting at though? I mean, we're hardcore geeks, we're here on boards talking about BSG, for crying out loud, of course we're going to love the show, but... even I was completely turned off by this episode. It would've been nice if RD Moore had decided to show at least some light at the end of the tunnel instead of an hour of disfunction. Trust me, I love how 'real' BSG is, and you'll never see a scene as good as Odama telling the chief what happened in the end of the show, but, I feel that there's a lot to be desired in the screenwriting to contribute balance.

As television: Yes. As a box-set/complete series/cough* torrent collection cough* : No. Theyre doing the right thing. Even season 3.5 plays pretty well when you arent getting it one drip at a time.

ixoy

eob wrote: »

Surely you can see what I'm getting at though? I mean, we're hardcore geeks, we're here on boards talking about BSG, for crying out loud, of course we're going to love the show, but... even I was completely turned off by this episode. It would've been nice if RD Moore had decided to show at least some light at the end of the tunnel instead of an hour of disfunction. Trust me, I love how 'real' BSG is, and you'll never see a scene as good as Odama telling the chief what happened in the end of the show, but, I feel that there's a lot to be desired in the screenwriting to contribute balance.

Take... Scrubs for example, most light hearted popcorn comedy show out there, but they still take the time out to do the odd serious piece of storytelling on unexpected pregnancy, death, disease, etc.

As much as I enjoyed this episode, I think you've a fair point. In particular I was watching the Kara and Andres scene and thinking why everyone has to be so angsty/hurt all the time. If we're exploring the human condition, we do need to realise that one of the great qualities is the ability to laugh and smile in the face of danger, to find joy in the smallest of moments. This episode could have had that too - it would have showed that even in our darkest hour, we can still find some good. It's probably (IMO) BSG's weakest quality - too much darkness in the characters. I'd like to see a bit more positives now and then.

Other than that, it was another great episode. The show does well from knowing it's coming to an end and it shows in having episodes with focus - events are moving, coming towards an end. Spacing Cally was great (she whined too much!) but lots of other neat moments too - the civil war getting under way and once more an Adama standing up to Roslyn's dictatorship. This time it won't be a military coup, so maybe some sort of civil unrest (again)?

DeVore

Wasnt wild about this episodes. As one of my best mates would say "too much talking, not enough giant aliens with lazers!"

While I love the maturity of the scripts, this epi had too much navel-gazing. The script was unusually sloppy and poorly edited (wtf is it with Adama and Prez... this isnt East Enders!).

Then comes that wallloooooooooooop. Flatmates and I simultaenously "woaaaaaaaaaahed!"...

DeV.

Overheal

DeVore wrote: »

Then comes that wallloooooooooooop. Flatmates and I simultaenously "woaaaaaaaaaahed!"...

DeV.

lol I am quickly getting the feeling this entire season will be full of Whoaments. Like this, and Tigh shooting Adama - and the Centurion massacre*

*actually for me that came out as maniacal laughter and raising my arms in the air

DeVore

Yeah, I also loved the fact that unlikely every other show out there I wasnt sitting there thinking "they'll never kill off a main character... pffff, airlock".
In fact last week I was half eating a slice of pizza when Tigh shot Adama and it was a terrific moment because for a split second you really thought they were capable of it!

DeV.

Johnny Storm

Overheal wrote: »

....right. Report to sickbay Johnny.
.

By your command, OverLord!

stakey

ghouldaddy07 wrote: »

ok episode probly would have enjoyed it more if I hadnt of known cally was gona bite the dust before it aired.

anyone else think the starbucks painting looked like a possible ship of lights in the scene after kara and anders have the sex

She's painting the route to earth, the three lights are Alpha Centauri, Beta Centuari and Proxima Centauri which is the trinary star system she has her ship seeking. The Centauri System containing Proxima Centauri is the closest star system to our own and would be an obvious mark to find Earth by.

madrab

wow, we just got nerd served

Khannie

ixoy wrote: »

too much darkness in the characters. I'd like to see a bit more positives now and then.

+1. Angsty Starbuck is not a believable character IMO. My wife pointed it out and I tend to agree with her. That scene with herself and Anders just did not fit in with who they have made her (to date).

Overall, I enjoyed it though. S4 is about as good as the start of S2 so far (which is < S1 and > S3 IMO).

Khannie

Johnny Storm wrote: »

Edited again: I forgot to add the best bit: "Weapons Locker 1701D". Bwahhahahahah!

Ah yes! I was looking at the locker going "wtf? I know that number from somewhere". *doh*