Westside Powerlifting training advice

kevpants

Hi all,

This one is aimed at the powerlifters who dwell within the bowels of this forum. Basically I'm looking to change the way I've been training for the past 6 or 7 years (I'm 27) to focus more on a pure strength program and would ideally like to start powerlifting once I've gotten my house in order with this new way of training. Up to now my goals have been a general mix of fitness, strength and size, I'd like to concentrate on strength now.

Currently I'm 5' 11" 90kg, bench is ok 120kg 1RM, squat and deadlift need alot of work. Up to now I've been squatting 110kg 5 reps for 5 sets as an example routine on my leg days. Haven't really taken on much bigger to explore my 1RM. I realise I'm fairly puny at this discipline.

I've done my research on how to get started and am going to start up a Westside inspired program of 1 Max Effort Benchpress day, 1 Max Effort Squat/Deadlift day, 1 Dynamic Effort Benchpress Day and 1 Dynamic Effort Squat/Deadlift day. The rest of the time I think I'll be asleep....or in hospital. I know I'm not going to take on the world but I'm seriously stoked about this!!

I'm giving up soccer which I now officially suck at anyway (can't be bothered trying to get aerobically fit enough so meh) so this is going to be my focus.

I'll get to my question now I suppose!

I'm currently a member in Westmanstown Crunch and don't have the cash to join another more lifter friendly gym until that membership is over in October. The connotation here is that I'm going to be bereft of spotters. I might be able to get someone to spot me on me 1RM's at the end of my session but most of the time any guys I ask (including staff) in there to spot just hold the bar the whole way through the lift...thanks buddy I asked for a spot not for us to lift the thing together!

This is going to limit the range of exercises available to me, particularily on ME days and particularily with the bench. Floor presses are out, board presses are probably out (god I can imagine trying to explain that one in Westmanstown). Really all I'll get is someone to maybe make sure I don't kill myself towards the end of my core routine.

So what I'm wondering is can you suggest training cycles, methods and exercises that I can go for pretty much solo that I can realistically expect to get gains out of? Bearing in mind I'm told it is important to change the core exercise every 3 weeks to prevent falling back. Sorry for the wordy post, Thanks. Kev.

Hanley

I sugggest you do something else. It would appear you don't have the equipment or people around you to make it work....

How much do you squat and deadlift out of interest?

kevpants

Hanley wrote: »

I sugggest you do something else. It would appear you don't have the equipment or people around you to make it work....

How much do you squat and deadlift out of interest?

Cheers for quick response Hanley, I know I'm not in the ideal position but I still want to make gains. That's really what I want advice on. I'll be looking to get in somewhere more condusive to this type of training in a few months once I can afford it!

My max squat would be about 140kg and my deadlift is 160kg.

Hanley

I guess you could do 3 week cycles of close grip bench presses, incline benches and normal bench presses. Not working to a max single every week, but a heavy 3x5 in week one, 3x3 in week two and max triple or single in week one.

Follow it up with an exercise that you KNOW will help your bench press (I'm doing shirted bench work and board presses for example because they'll help me bench bigger in competition).

For Squat/DL it's gonna be even trickier. Same 3 week wave applies, but as for exrcise selection it is hard to say. Rack pulls from mid shin, deadlifts while either standing on a 2-3inch platform or with smaller plates to lower the bar, pause squats, zercher squats or front squats.

I'd probably use 4 exercise for ME lower - pause squat, rack pulls, front squat, def. pull

Again, follow it up with something that you KNOW will help your squat. I'm doing max reps with 160kg each week for example.

Hope this helps.

Al_Fernz

Hey man I'm doing a version of WS4SB3 now (check the logs) and I'm loving it. Its a great routine.

Based on what you say your lifting for 90kgs I would say your quite some way from competing in any powerlifting tournies. You really need to join a powerlifting club and get some proper coaching if you want to compete.

kevpants

Competing isn't the goal here. To be honest I'm mainly interested in competing against myself, just want to improve.

Saw your log Al, I'll keep an eye on it.

Thanks for the advice there Hanley. I think I have enough exercises there to go forward on this. I never thought of the Zercher squats and I think if I add some JM presses to my bench routines and maybe Good mornings to the squat/DL (I mean I can just dump the bar if I can't get a decent spotter) I'll have enough range to keep it fresh every couple of weeks. On the bench I think I can move forward if I get my triceps up a level, really I've been benching with my Pecs and have hit a wall.

I think I gave the wrong impression in the original post, this is something I want to do because I just like doing it, nothing to do with competing in tournaments. I just want to be satisfied with my progress strength wise and am interested in this kind of program.

Hanley

There's nothing wrong with benching with your pecs... Look at any top level raw bencher. They're thick as hell there. Alot of the time these articles and programs are aimed at guys who compete in a shirt so lockout becomes the most important factor as to whether or not they get the lift. So that's where the attention is devoted.

Google "bench like a stripper" by Jim Wendler. It's a good article on raw benching and westside training.

kevpants

Hanley wrote: »

There's nothing wrong with benching with your pecs... Look at any top level raw bencher. They're thick as hell there. Alot of the time these articles and programs are aimed at guys who compete in a shirt so lockout becomes the most important factor as to whether or not they get the lift. So that's where the attention is devoted.

Google "bench like a stripper" by Jim Wendler. It's a good article on raw benching and westside training.

Will do. The thing about my bench is that my sticking point just a few inches above my chest is where my triceps should kick in..........they don't:o

Hanley

How big is a few inches?? <4?

kevpants

Probably more like 6? Granted I'm usually blurry eyed through a haze of sweat and broken blood vessels at thsi stage but I think about 6. Maybe 4 -6. What do you reckon my weak point is in the case. I thought tri's but maybe it's lats?

Hanley

In my exp lats aren't nearly as important for raw benchers as they are shirted. The upper back is much more important imo. I'm pretty sure Wendler said something similar recently.

Are you doing any upper back work?

What's your shoulder strength like?

Do you miss there on max attemptes or during reps?

kevpants

Hanley wrote: »

In my exp lats aren't nearly as important for raw benchers as they are shirted. The upper back is much more important imo. I'm pretty sure Wendler said something similar recently.

Are you doing any upper back work?

What's your shoulder strength like?

Do you miss there on max attemptes or during reps?

Upper back work yes but it wouldn't be as strong in comparison to my chest so maybe lagging behind.

Shoulder strength is good I think. Can pop out 5 handstand pressups (nose to floor) and up to recently I've been working up to 70kg military press 3 sets of 3.

You might be onto something with the back though.

I generally miss here on the max.

JJ6000

Even though some exercises may be out of the question I think westside can still be a great program.

It's a pity the owners of your gym are so small/closed minded but there really is no reason they should not allow board presses to be done. If they question you about it, calmly explain the rationale/purpose of the exercise. If they advise you not to do it, then ask them to explain why exactly. Most likely, they wont have any reason whatsoever (or will invent a fictitious one), other than the fact that they are too closed minded to consider any exercise other than they read about in their course-book. I think it would be more tricky to convince them that floor presses are ok since these will look even more strange than board presses. If they are assholes about it, you could ask them to google floor presses/board presses and then maybe they will realise that a helluva lot of people do them.

In any case, even if they dont allow you to do certain exercises, the westside template, and the principles behind it, is still a very good one. You can substitute other exercises in place fo the ones you may not be allowed to. I suggest you read up all of Dave Tates stuff, and all the articles on elitefts on the westside method. It should give you a good understanding of their method and a selection of exercises and their purpose. A very important aspect of westside is the principle that a chain is only as strong as it's weakest link. Your weak link will differ from others and will depend on many things (eg. whether you lift equipped or unequipped) and it is important that the exercises you select serve a specific purpose and address your weak points.

Westside like to use chains and bands also, but I dont think there is any need for you to be concerned with that right now. The system works great even without chains and bands. The most important thing is that you build an understanding of how westside works, the principles & purpose behind it and how to implement it. It would be easy for us to give you a specific program but I think it would be more helpful for you to understand the system first. It's like the "give a man a fish....or teach a man to fish" argument. When you understand this, then you should be able to for your own program.

Another good idea would be to get the DVD's although if you are short of cash it could be out of the question since they are quite expensive.

In any case, read everything you can find on westside first and locate a list of exercises they use and pick the appropriate ones which will help you progress.

I think your biggest problem though, is the lack of spotters. It is important you have spotters doing westside since you will be lifting at a very high percentage/working to a 1rep max every max-effort day. Try to get a relaible training partner. As soon as you can afford it, join a decent gym with proper lifters. The place you are in now sounds like a nightmare.

Like Hanley said, a pillar of their training is to rotate exercises around every 3 weeks....it is VERY important to rotate max-effort exercises. Like I said though, get a thorough understanding of their system and you will be good to go.

kevpants

JJ6000 wrote: »

As soon as you can afford it, join a decent gym with proper lifters. The place you are in now sounds like a nightmare.

Youre telling me. Say hello to my squat rack!!!!! I'm not kidding!!!

JJ6000

Also, keep in mind that a lot of westside stuff is geared towards equipped lifters.

If you lift raw, you will need to choose appropriate exercises for lifting raw.

Its still a good system for raw lifters though.

As far as your triceps being weak, I have always found that tricep come most into play when the upper arm becomes horizontal with the floor (or shortly before). So if you'r failing after this point, then it's definitely your triceps.

A very important way to get through the mid sticking point is to work on your bar-speed. Build up the proper momentum at the start of the lift and you should be able to blast through it.

JJ6000

kevpants wrote: »

Youre telling me. Say hello to my squat rack!!!!! I'm not kidding!!!

That's your squat rack????!!!

Seriously man, as soon as you can afford it, I would ditch that place. A good gym is the best training investment you can make.

kevpants

Thanks JJ. Cheers lads for simplifying some of these principles down to something workable for my situation. I'll make sure to specifically cater my routines to raw lifting rather than mix the two up. Good advice.

kevpants

JJ6000 wrote: »

That's your squat rack????!!!

Seriously man, as soon as you can afford it, I would ditch that place. A good gym is the best training investment you can make.

Mmmm not good. It's wider than the one in the picture so I can walk in and out of it unhindered but yeah, disaster.

Any suggestions for Gyms in Dub 15 area? What's Tf Castleknock like?

JJ6000

kevpants wrote: »

Mmmm not good. It's wider than the one in the picture so I can walk in and out of it unhindered but yeah, disaster.

Any suggestions for Gyms in Dub 15 area? What's Tf Castleknock like?

Hmm, not sure really. Not familiar with the area at all.

Not a fan of the total fitness places myself since I just find them too sterile but if they work for you, then go for it. Havent been in a TF for years though so I could be totally wrong.

I'd reccomend going somewhere with other strong people though. Nothing encourages you more than to be around others serious about lifting.

I'm sure others on the board are familiar with your area. Maybe check out the 'irish gyms reviewed' thread.

Malteaser!

kevpants wrote: »

Mmmm not good. It's wider than the one in the picture so I can walk in and out of it unhindered but yeah, disaster.

Any suggestions for Gyms in Dub 15 area? What's Tf Castleknock like?

In Dublin 15 you've really only got West Point and Tf, myself and Hanley train in TF and I really have no complaints about the place. It can be packed on Monday and Tuesday evenings but it's not too bad the rest of the time and durning the day it's empty.

They've three benches, two squat racks, a good few olympic bars, incline and decline benches, dumbbells go v.heavy too. Can't remember to what weight, I'm sure Hanley or someone else who trains there knows. They have pretty much everything else that you'll need. I've actually been in that Crunch before and the weights section is tiny compared to TF.

As for bringing boards in - Hanley's done it a ton of times and they've never said anything to him. They actually let you away with pretty much anything so long as you're not making a big deal about it. Like they're ok with chalk, even though officially it's not allowed in the gym, so long as you're not spilling it all over the floor etc.

I only ever went up to Westpoint for a tour so I can't really comment on the place. The one thing that really put me off was the pool in the middle, the heat coming off it was just unbelievable, it was like walking into a sauna and I could never imagine trying to get a decent session done in that.

The price really seperates the two. Tf is way more expensive though imo its worth it.

Hanley

TF's well worth joining. You can do the majority of things there really.

If you do decide to go ahead and join, let me know and I'll probably be able to lend a hand/show you the ropes.

Dumbbell's go up to 70 or 75kg I think.

kevpants

Cheers lads. Sounds like Total Fitness would be my best option. How much is the yearly fee? I work from home in D15 so can be fairly flexible with times so not worried about whether it's too busy. The money situation is just crap for the next few months due to just getting married so paying for that and the honeymoon as well as other stuff that all came at once!

If I do join I'll look ye up. I'd appreciate the help.

Kev

Hanley

kevpants wrote: »

Cheers lads. Sounds like Total Fitness would be my best option. How much is the yearly fee? I work from home in D15 so can be fairly flexible with times so not worried about whether it's too busy. The money situation is just crap for the next few months due to just getting married so paying for that and the honeymoon as well as other stuff that all came at once!

If I do join I'll look ye up. I'd appreciate the help.

Kev

It comes out around 645 I think. You can pay up front, monthly by DD too (which works out a bit more expensive), or half in month one and the remainder in month two (which works out at 645).

I checked out westpoint before I joined TF and there is no way I could recommend it to any one over TF. It's pretty crap in comparison tbh.

I've used bands, boards AND chalk in TF, nobody has said a word to me. If you're a bit creative with how you set things up you can do pretty much anything you could do in a "hardcore" gym.

Definately recommended.

the drifter

Hanley wrote: »

There's nothing wrong with benching with your pecs... Look at any top level raw bencher. They're thick as hell there. g.

like me! i have no arch at all...ask hanley hes seen me bench...there is nothing worng with it but i do feel its going to limit me as i hit 140 and above..

kevpants

Went and had a look on my luch break there. Yeah it really has a decent setup. From what the guy showing me around says there's quite a few serious lifters in there like some of yourselves so I'd be able to get plenty of constructive criticism which I need big style.

I'm heading aver to the US and A at the end of May (another reason for the money issue!) so I think I'll grin and bear Westmanstown until I come back, try and get myself into this new type of program in the meantime and see what gains I can muster. I'll probably sign up then and write off the rest of the few months in my current place.

Thanks all I'm glad I posted now!:pac:

Malteaser!

kevpants wrote: »

Went and had a look on my luch break there. Yeah it really has a decent setup. From what the guy showing me around says there's quite a few serious lifters in there like some of yourselves so I'd be able to get plenty of constructive criticism which I need big style.

That's deadly, what time were you up there at?? I was up there earlier, saw one of the lads giving a tour!!

Hanley

Malteaser! wrote: »

That's deadly, what time were you up there at?? I was up there earlier, saw one of the lads giving a tour!!

AGAIN??????

Malteaser!

Hanley wrote: »

AGAIN??????

haha yeah, I wasn't happy with my benching yesterday and didn't want that to be my session for the week so I did it again!! I also wanted to see if my shoulder was as ****ed as I thought yesterday...It's not!

Degsy

There's some big units in TF castleknock..including a couple of the biggets dudes i've ever seen.Its a great palce to train tbh and you never have problems getting a spot or a place on a bench even when its busy.

kevpants

Malteaser! wrote: »

That's deadly, what time were you up there at?? I was up there earlier, saw one of the lads giving a tour!!

Yeah probably me. It was about 2 or 2:30. Was the guy looking tired, despondent and depressed at realising what muck he had paid to join last year?