Miss UCD

Dave!

I didn't even know it was on! :eek: Cheers Students Against Sexism!!!

PennyLane

Yeah, c'mon, where's the Mr. UCD pageant? (Swimsuit round, anyone?)

BlackMamba

PennyLane wrote: »

Yeah, c'mon, where's the Mr. UCD pageant? (Swimsuit round, anyone?)

I second the motion!;):D

Riamfada

pics or it didnt happen. !

tribulus

I think theres a protest being organised for it too. On account of...actually I have no idea why, though a certain boardsie might explain

Here I was thinking that students would have better things to do like study and get pissed around exam time! Oh know, a group have managed to squeeze in a "straight out of the 60's" protest about sexism! Seriously, if girls throw their name into the lot and want to parade around then more power to them!!

The_Minister

I think its a "but sure we all have lovely bottoms" kinda protest.

Dave!

There's a good chance that pretty*monster will be there with a megaphone, so might wanna be careful with the jokes!

The_Minister

DaveMcG wrote: »

There's a good chance that pretty*monster will be there with a megaphone, so might wanna be careful with the jokes!

It is a boarsie who is organising it, but its not our Pretty.

pretty*monster

I have a thesis to write. I no longer have time to hold opinions on anything but phenomenology and whiskey.

Also the objectification of women is probably inevitable in the unending struggle with the other. See Hegel, Sartre, etc.

tribulus

Indeed. The posters don't go into detail about why they're protesting though, maybe I just didn't notice 'cus I was staring at barbie's tits :eek:

Riamfada

Fair dues to our panda but I find it astonishing that alot of women in UCD walk around in what can only be described as painted on knickers on a daily basis think that this objectifies women. Its pretty much obvious that women objectify themselves on a daily basis and moan then when its insitutionalised

Someone call the womans officer ....... oh wait

remus808

Grimes wrote: »

Someone call the womans officer ....... oh wait

Ho ho ho, got a good chuckle out of that one, bravo. :pac:

This ultra-feminist crap does my head in. a) its a bit of craic, cop on.. b) the motion against it was already democratically voted down by the SU, hence your getting nowhere trying to do anything about it at this stage. Get angry if you must, but get over it.

Riamfada

Yes KarmaB but a democratic vote is reasonable and we are dealing with women here .........................





... ill get my coat

<joke btw>

PennyLane

tribulus wrote: »

Indeed. The posters don't go into detail about why they're protesting though, maybe I just didn't notice 'cus I was staring at barbie's tits :eek:

The fliers do, though. I read one in Arts today and then corrected all the typos while waiting for my lecture to start. Honestly, if they really want to get their point across they should try to at least seem well-informed. The basic point is that it's sexist and a product of the Patriarchy that's undermining our women's self-esteem and causing depression, eating disorders, etc.

On the one hand, I do find it a bit objectifying and therefore offensive, and I find these things more often than not pick the stereotypically hot girl rather than the one who's actually attractive and doesn't look like she has crabs. But on the other hand, it is for a charity and it's the girls' own choice to put themselves out to market. In all honesty, I'd just like to see a somewhat equivalent male event so that I'll have something to oggle. It's only fair, and after all, isn't fairness what feminism is really all about?

Tom65

PennyLane wrote: »

But on the other hand, it is for a charity and it's the girls' own choice to put themselves out to market. In all honesty, I'd just like to see a somewhat equivalent male event so that I'll have something to oggle. It's only fair, and after all, isn't fairness what feminism is really all about?

I agree with this. If its the girl's choice, and for charity, why the issues with it?

Chakar

Can anybody provide details about the actual contest for posterity? When are finals etc?

Riamfada

Id enter a male version. Objectify your eyes out ladies but only if there is a swimsuit section. Would I wax my bits? Probably. OP there is your answer. Pretty*Monster I need your help to reach the bits I cant get. Cheers! Be on Team G.

Anyway isnt the UCD fashion show a bit of a Miss UCD competition? I already know who is going to win this anyway. Ill give you a hint, it begings with an R and ends with O'neill

Dave!

RO'neill? Whodat?

redcar

Cast your mind back to a McDonalds ad...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RaBIU6k60Ko

"What?! You mean the two week free gaff is gone?!"

simonrooneyzaga

Grimes wrote: »

I already know who is going to win this anyway. Ill give you a hint, it begings with an R and ends with O'neill

Ah dont be so negative grimes! It really is anyones game when beauts like this are entering...

panda100

tribulus wrote: »

I think theres a protest being organised for it too. On account of...actually I have no idea why, though a certain boardsie might explain

Theres leaflets around the place explaining our protestation. Basically ,we object to the unions involvment in what is a very sexist and exclusive event.
Here are the rules for the 'competiton':

Each contestant:-

1) shall be of good character and possessed of charm poise personality and have beauty of face and figure

2) shall be a person whose background is not likely to bring into disrepute The Miss World Contest or Title or the Licensee or the Promoter or any person associated with them Posing for nude or semi nude pictures would be considered in this.

3) shall be a person :-

(i) who usually uses the prefix 'Miss' ( or eqivalent ) before her name

(ii) who has never been through any ceremony either valid or invalid and whether civil, religious or tribal which is recognized as a marriage ceremony in any part of the world

(iii) who has never given birth to a child

Each girl that enters must be a minimum of 5foot4inches

What sort of message Is this sending out to the majority of union membership (Ie. young females)?
If your short your ugly?
After you have a child your ugly?
When you get married your no longer desirable?
Only single,tall ,virgins are worthy to represnt UCD on a world stage! Its very offensive and is not a message that the union should be associating with.

karmabass wrote: »

This ultra-feminist crap does my head in. a) its a bit of craic, cop on.. b) the motion against it was already democratically voted down by the SU, hence your getting nowhere trying to do anything about it at this stage. Get angry if you must, but get over it.

A bit of craic is a table quiz or a karoke, having women show their bodies so their bum,thighs,breasts,face can be scrutinized by a whole load of men is not 'a bit of craic'. If you think it is then I urge you to come along tommorow and I will happily give you marks out of ten for your body shape and type. Its a 1 outside the arts block hope to see you there.

As for being 'democratically' voted down......Well, union council Is made up of a majority of young males I felt I would take my message to the real union membership,i.e a majority of young females. The support from students and staff has been overwhelming. If the union are trying to get more women inovled in the union,as they should be,they are going the wrong way about it.

PennyLane wrote: »

On the one hand, I do find it a bit objectifying and therefore offensive, and I find these things more often than not pick the stereotypically hot girl rather than the one who's actually attractive and doesn't look like she has crabs. But on the other hand, it is for a charity and it's the girls' own choice to put themselves out to market. In all honesty, I'd just like to see a somewhat equivalent male event so that I'll have something to oggle. It's only fair, and after all, isn't fairness what feminism is really all about?

Thats why we decided not to hold the protest at the venue itself. We do not want or wish to intimidate the women themselves who choose to enter this competiton. Our protest is at the outdated concept of Miss World itself. We also want to protest at the unions involvment and to show our disspointment they are supporting this sexist event while doing little to highlight womens issues on campus this year.

As for being for charity,it is not up to a student union to fund a completly underfunded part of the health service. Awarnness/treatment/research for primary Immunodeficiency disorders is completly underresourced in Ireland .If the union really cared about rasing money for underfunded parts of the health service then they should mobilise students to fight back against these cutbacks in our health service instead of running a beauty pageant which will raise an insignisficant amount for a very significant cause.


I urge all those who oppose sexism on campus and the unions involvment in this degrading event to come along tommorow at 1 outside the arts blcok. We have some excellent speakers form the Equality department and all in all It will be a thought-provoking,intresting,and fun event

bren2002

The OUTRAGE of it all. Seriously, not a big deal - build a bridge....

:rolleyes:

Bubs101

panda100 wrote: »

A bit of craic is a table quiz or a karoke, having women show their bodies so their bum,thighs,breasts,face can be scrutinized by a whole load of men is not 'a bit of craic'.

Sounds like much more craic then a table quiz to me

bren2002

Re above:

bugle

get a hobby for gods sake. its a bit of fun

fatal

Its just like any other competition,it has rules.If you can't stick to them,you're not in,simple as!
As long as I get to perve at some blonde bimbo in a crown at the end,I really couldn't care less about the whole thing:D

PennyLane

panda100 wrote: »

Theres leaflets around the place explaining our protestation. Basically ,we object to the unions involvment in what is a very sexist and exclusive event.
Here are the rules for the 'competiton':

[...]

What sort of message Is this sending out to the majority of union membership (Ie. young females)?
If your short your ugly?
After you have a child your ugly?
When you get married your no longer desirable?
Only single,tall ,virgins are worthy to represnt UCD on a world stage! Its very offensive and is not a message that the union should be associating with.

Ah, there's that language from the flier.

• Spaces go after the comma, not before, and they're not optional.
• It's typed "i.e.", with both letters lowercase and a period after each.
• It's "you're", not "your".
• The Union is a proper noun and should be capitalized.
• Also, use double quotations, not inverted commas.

Your English teachers must be crying right now. I'd take the whole protest movement a lot more seriously if it looked like there was some learning to back up all the passionate rhetoric. Oh, and it'd make you guys look even better if you backed up some of your claims with citations to legitimate studies. I'm talking about things like "In Ireland alone 6000 women suffer from eating disorders compared to 400 men" or "Last year alone L'oreal made a massive €1.86 billion in profits!"

Also, re: no mothers or wives, it wouldn't be "Miss" UCD if they let in someone's missus, now would it? It doesn't come across (to me at least) like they're saying these women aren't beautiful enough to be in their pageant. There are other criteria besides being pretty, which is why they put that clause in about the background of the contestants reflecting well on the contest's reputation. Wives and mothers are simply not the demographic their looking for. Don't worry, they'll get their chance in the "Ms. MILF UCD" contest next month.

fatal

PennyLane wrote: »

Ah, there's that language from the flier.

• Spaces go after the comma, not before, and they're not optional.
• It's typed "i.e.", with both letters lowercase and a period after each.
• It's "you're", not "your".
• The Union is a proper noun and should be capitalized.
• Also, use double quotations, not inverted commas.

Your English teachers must be crying right now. I'd take the whole protest movement a lot more seriously if it looked like there was some learning to back up all the passionate rhetoric. Oh, and it'd make you guys look even better if you backed up some of your claims with citations to legitimate studies. I'm talking about things like "In Ireland alone 6000 women suffer from eating disorders compared to 400 men" or "Last year alone L'oreal made a massive €1.86 billion in profits!"

Also, re: no mothers or wives, it wouldn't be "Miss" UCD if they let in someone's missus, now would it? It doesn't come across (to me at least) like they're saying these women aren't beautiful enough to be in their pageant. There are other criteria besides being pretty, which is why they put that clause in about the background of the contestants reflecting well on the contest's reputation. Wives and mothers are simply not the demographic their looking for. Don't worry, they'll get their chance in the "Ms. MILF UCD" contest next month.

I LOL'd;)

Riamfada

Panda

While I respect what your doing I still havnt figured out how to do multiple quote boxes in a reply so Ill just say this. Id appreciate it if you stopped using the word sexist, women who enter these events enter of their own will and want to do this, its not a male sexisim thing and as I man i take offence. Women create this image for themselves, I or no man has a hand in making them do this or indeed making them parade themselves around on adaily basis.
I really couldnt give a **** if UCD's homogenous terry chocolate oranges want to parade their oddly preportioned bodies around. I would assume you would have taken the last few days to conduct your own impartial poll of the UCD electorate

"do you think miss ucd should be cancelled" yes/no


Im with the Union on this one. This has obviously been in the works for a while and the entire SU council heard it, and I know alot of female SU council members and not one had a problem with this or if they did , didnt make the problem public.

Now on a personal note I wont be at this myself, I dont find the fake tan and fish eyed smile a turn on , Im much more into the bohemian weirdo but in a hot way type.And as we all know, these are the women you bring home to your mother. Men dont go for the type of women that would be involved in such a thing, its like I drive a Mazda, Id love a Ferrari but its way too much hassle and a bitch to drive. So Ill stick with the Mazda. Therefore the fact that you state that a patriarchal society forced women into eating disorders ect is the biggest pile of feminist anti-man anti-self responsiblity crap I have ever heard. Women create this themselves through a weird fascination with looking uber hot "not for him but for myself" and such an image has evolved from the female half of society while the men simply enjoy the evolution!



Anyway in summary, because I have just woken up and usually make no sense when I just wake up I want to say that this isnt a sexist event. It may be in the way that there is no male event and all that (i think ive already supported a male competition earlier in this thread woot woot). I refuse to hate my penis over this !

Dave!

I think there should be an impromptu 'Miss Students Against Sexism' competition... Panda, you could be in with a shout tbh...... put on some lipstick or somethin before the protest!

EamonnKeane

I think sport should be banned. It pressures young men to believe that they must achieve impossible standards of strength and fitness, and if they do not, they are not """winners""". What is this, Nazi Russia?

Agent Smith

panda100 wrote: »

Theres leaflets around the place explaining our protestation. Basically ,we object to the unions involvment in what is a very sexist and exclusive event.
Here are the rules for the 'competiton':

Each contestant:-

1) shall be of good character and possessed of charm poise personality and have beauty of face and figure

2) shall be a person whose background is not likely to bring into disrepute The Miss World Contest or Title or the Licensee or the Promoter or any person associated with them Posing for nude or semi nude pictures would be considered in this.

3) shall be a person :-

(i) who usually uses the prefix 'Miss' ( or eqivalent ) before her name

(ii) who has never been through any ceremony either valid or invalid and whether civil, religious or tribal which is recognized as a marriage ceremony in any part of the world

(iii) who has never given birth to a child

Each girl that enters must be a minimum of 5foot4inches

What sort of message Is this sending out to the majority of union membership (Ie. young females)?
If your short your ugly?
After you have a child your ugly?
When you get married your no longer desirable?
Only single,tall ,virgins are worthy to represnt UCD on a world stage! Its very offensive and is not a message that the union should be associating with.



A bit of craic is a table quiz or a karoke, having women show their bodies so their bum,thighs,breasts,face can be scrutinized by a whole load of men is not 'a bit of craic'. If you think it is then I urge you to come along tommorow and I will happily give you marks out of ten for your body shape and type. Its a 1 outside the arts block hope to see you there.

As for being 'democratically' voted down......Well, union council Is made up of a majority of young males I felt I would take my message to the real union membership,i.e a majority of young females. The support from students and staff has been overwhelming. If the union are trying to get more women inovled in the union,as they should be,they are going the wrong way about it.



Thats why we decided not to hold the protest at the venue itself. We do not want or wish to intimidate the women themselves who choose to enter this competiton. Our protest is at the outdated concept of Miss World itself. We also want to protest at the unions involvment and to show our disspointment they are supporting this sexist event while doing little to highlight womens issues on campus this year.

As for being for charity,it is not up to a student union to fund a completly underfunded part of the health service. Awarnness/treatment/research for primary Immunodeficiency disorders is completly underresourced in Ireland .If the union really cared about rasing money for underfunded parts of the health service then they should mobilise students to fight back against these cutbacks in our health service instead of running a beauty pageant which will raise an insignisficant amount for a very significant cause.


I urge all those who oppose sexism on campus and the unions involvment in this degrading event to come along tommorow at 1 outside the arts blcok. We have some excellent speakers form the Equality department and all in all It will be a thought-provoking,intresting,and fun event

Thats Hot....

panda100

EamonnKeane wrote: »

I think sport should be banned. It pressures young men to believe that they must achieve impossible standards of strength and fitness, and if they do not, they are not """winners""".

The very vast majority of people play sport to keep fit,be part of a team or to have a sociable outlet to meet people. Comparing sport, which is a healthy outlet for all people socially and physically to a competition that bans mothers,wives,people under 5'4,fat,big nosed, yellow teethed,spotty, or just 'normal' women is ridiculous.
Sport has a positive effect on the majority of people. Does Miss world have a positive effect on the majority of people?
As a women I cant see how Miss world has anything but a negative effect?


Penny lane,its not feasible to write refrences to studies on an A5 information leaflet.I will be happy to direct you to the relevant studies at tommorows protest.

6th

panda100 wrote: »

having women show their bodies so their bum,thighs,breasts,face can be scrutinized by a whole load of men is not 'a bit of craic'.

In fairness the lezzers will be checkin' them out to, and probably a few of the bi-curious chicks too.

abelard

EamonnKeane wrote: »

I think sport should be banned. It pressures young men to believe that they must achieve impossible standards of strength and fitness, and if they do not, they are not """winners""". What is this, Nazi Russia?

I don't like an argument like that. I think it's fallacious, a straw man.

And as much as I hate the absolute folly of an argument that is Godwin's Law, well, that's there too (I hold absolutely no stead in Godwin's "Law" but some people seem to treat it as having actual meaning so it gets a mention).

Meh, as much as it looks like I'm trying to attack here, I think this should be allowed to go ahead as a once-off, though I wouldn't really like to see the Union organise it again in the future. If someone else wants to organise the event, fire away, but I'm a bit uneasy that our money is going towards it. I don't think we have a lot to gain from it and my belief (i.e. I can't really back this up with proof!!) is that it will ultimately make more people feel bad about themselves.

Sure, the event objectifies women, but if the entrants want to be objectified, let them. That's not my problem with it, it's the message the Union is sending out in rewarding "beauty of face and figure".

TelePaul

This is why I hate UCD.

Raphael

RIght, since I've had to step in here to infract and delete, I'm going to give a thread wide warning. Next person to jump in with personal abuse, gets a free holiday in not-here.

tbh

if UCD are admitting women based on their looks, then OMG I hate that.

If, on the other hand, this is a competition that women are under no obligation to enter unless they want to, then getting righteously outraged on their behalf is counter-productive.

fullstop

panda100 wrote: »

The very vast majority of people play sport to keep fit,be part of a team or to have a sociable outlet to meet people. Comparing sport, which is a healthy outlet for all people socially and physically to a competition that bans mothers,wives,people under 5'4,fat,big nosed, yellow teethed,spotty, or just 'normal' women is ridiculous.
Sport has a positive effect on the majority of people. Does Miss world have a positive effect on the majority of people?As a women I cant see how Miss world has anything but a negative effect?


Penny lane,its not feasible to write refrences to studies on an A5 information leaflet.I will be happy to direct you to the relevant studies at tommorows protest.

It does on the majority of men, spank the monkey while watchin the swimsuit section :cool:

PennyLane

panda100 wrote: »

The very vast majority of people play sport to keep fit,SPACEbe part of a team or to have a sociable outlet to meet people. Comparing sport, which is a healthy outlet for all people, socially and physically, to a competition that bans mothers,SPACEwives,SPACEpeople under 5'4",SPACEfat,SPACEbig nosed, yellow teethed,SPACEspotty, or just 'normal' women is ridiculous.
Sport has a positive effect on the majority of people. Does Miss World have a positive effect on the majority of people?
As a woman I can't see how Miss World has anything but a negative effect.

Just like your writing is having a negative effect on everything you're trying to say. I doubt I'm the only one to keep being distracted by your presentation when trying follow what you're saying. I know it seems like I'm nitpicking, and I'm sorry if you feel bullied at all, but I'm just trying to help you be taken seriously.

In response to the content, this isn't Miss World, this is Miss UCD. They're on two totally different scales and I doubt most of the entrants into the Miss UCD pageant are going to be taking it anywhere near as seriously as the women of Miss World. I think they are just doing it for a laugh, and I think most of the people who go to watch are going for the same reason (and yes, probably to stare at scantily clad women).

And I hate to break it to you, but not all women are pretty. Yellow teeth and spotty? Yeah, that's unattractive. Hence the expression "she ain't gonna win no beauty pageants." But just because someone's been turned down from participating in Miss UCD doesn't mean that society at large is rejecting them from doing anything ever again. That's the beauty of feminism: it allows women to be more than their looks.

The fact that you're getting so out of shape about the exclusion of women from this event based on appearance is in a way fairly regressive. So what if someone says a woman isn't attractive if she's short and fat? Maybe she's not attractive, but maybe she's a genius and is going to go on to cure AIDS. And maybe the winner of the contest is going to go on to work at the Student Desk until she gets married for money and has six ugly little babies. Who's going to be remembered by society at large?

But what's more, who are we to judge either of them? Maybe some of these girls really don't have much else going for them. Maybe winning a beauty pageant will be the proudest day of some girl's life? [EDIT: in fact, the winner of Miss UCD gets a modeling contract. There are lots of girls out there whose life goal is to become a model, and I'm sure for many this is exactly the sort of golden opportunity they need to achieve it.] Who are you to say that's wrong? It just seems a little petty to be upset over a beauty pageant when there's so much other **** going on in the world that's far worse.

pretty*monster

PennyLane wrote: »

There are lots of girls out there whose life goal is to become a model, and I'm sure for many this is exactly the sort of golden opportunity they need to achieve it.

Quite. One wonders who they thonk they are wasting valuable educational resources comeing to college for.

stolenwine

If this competition does not take place just think of all the men who have made intelligent posts on this thread!

They won't be able to attend the Miss UCD event and subsequently give their phone number to one of the contestents resulting in a happy union. Therefore Panda100 and feminists everywhere you are responsible for murdering the future readership of the Daily Star. :eek: I hope your happy!

Riamfada

Ok just to clarify i have been making points veiled by a degree of piss taking. Trying to inject a bit of humor into the scenario. However Panda, Eamonkeane has a very good point but not being male and physically desirable in the traditional sense you wouldnt understand the pressures of attempting to atain the male adonis image that women constantly demand (especially when the irish rugby team are training here). It works both ways and Id like you to appreciate that before you comment further on sexism and a patriarchal society here in UCD . I for one have many female friends who ignore all aspects of personality in men and look only for the physical while many men ive met are looking for something more.
You percieve sport as a social outlet while you are stating on behalf of the women who partake in this event that its not sociable or an outlet for a fit body ect. I would argue that it is for these people and they should be allowed answer that and speak for themselves. Simularly you should not speak for the male population of UCD who dont fit into the "sports" culture simply because your perception of such a culture differs from those excluded from it.


G

EamonnKeane

pretty*monster wrote: »

Quite. One wonders who they thonk they are wasting valuable educational resources comeing to college for.

Perhhaps they are to learn the englisch for to speak her the well.

Cannibal Ox

EamonnKeane wrote:

I think sport should be banned. It pressures young men to believe that they must achieve impossible standards of strength and fitness, and if they do not, they are not """winners""". What is this, Nazi Russia?

The difference is you're not putting the ideal male on a pedastal so that the women of UCD can grunt their approval of their abs. Sports is a socially useful activity, it doesn't objectify its participants and more often then not, the best sports men and women are praised for their understanding of what ever sport their playing rather then their physical appearence ('he's got a footballing brain'). Ms. UCD (and a Mr.UCD if it happened) is about objectifying the participants, applying some kind of ideal shape and size on women's bodies (and who comes up with that ideal? women? Me thinks not ) and then judging them based on that measurement. I don't think thats right what ever way you swing it, its not about appreciating women, its about applying what are most often (unrealistic) male measurements of beauty on them and then grunting our collective approval of whoever comes closest to meeting them. Thats not something that should be encouraged, even if it is a bit of a laugh.

Walls

Guys, thank you so much for your comments. However, very few of you are really going to face the kind of difficulties that women experience on a day to day basis. You are not going to see this from a woman's point of view. I'm not giving out about that. This isn't your battle, and you aren't harmed by it, so it stands to reason that this wouldn't really carry much import to you.

But for some of us it really does. I've worked for several years in various industries, and I can assure you that there are highly gender specific attitudes out there, and they are not friendly. They can be patronising, demeaning, occasionally favourable, but mostly not. It is the kind of attitude that allows men to simply ignore women in the boardroom, and to allow men (not all, just some) have the kind of attitude that puts women off joining industry.

Now, University is all about experiences, academic and otherwise. It is about reaching for an ideal, both in terms of external theories, and in terms of internal development. Life is perfect nowhere, but in college there is at least a chance to try. To suggest that a Student Union should use Student dues, to pay for and organise a beauty contest, where the very attitudes women will have to combat in the work place, are played to, and encouraged, is missing the point so much I don't know where to start. We are not about looks. We are going to be spending our lifes fighting for equal pay, treatment, resources, pensions and child care, and be told that we're not pretty enough to be listened to, why can't we be nice.

This contest isn't something to be encouraged. It is right to object to it, it is right to protest it. Well done to the organisers of the protest, and remember that there are a lot who agree with you. Good for you.

Dave!

What make you of the participants in the pageant?

Walls

I would say that they have no idea how much they are reducing themselves by doing this. I would say that they will probably achieve a great deal in life, but it won't be by their beauty, and it won't be by entering this pageant.

Blut

I have to say, I always find it quite amusing that its never generally "good looking" girls who protest against these sorts of events. Thats not an insult directed at any of the posters in this thread, just an observation I've made from seeing a number of protests against beauty contests. One has to wonder if its not a bit of sour grapes?

The sports analogy is spot on for men. A beauty contest can be as much a social event as a sports event, I know loads of girls who made good friends during the UCD fashion shows. Men are also definitely held up against sports icons physically, how many lads get into weight training so that they can match the physiques of their rugby idols that so many girls drool over?

Those two points and also yeah its a bit of craic, anyone I know whos ever participated in a beauty pageant or fashion show has enjoyed it immensely (and most people who've watched them have too, though for probably different reasons!) and in the end its only those two demographics who matter most isnt it?

Bubs101

Walls wrote: »

. However, very few of you are really going to face the kind of difficulties that women experience on a day to day basis. .

Just like you can't face the difficulties that men experience on a daily basis. We want to see a glorified bikini contest but instead we have put up with feminists who are only kicking up a fuss because they know they couldn't win.