60kmph or 80kmph?

Ri na hEireann

Just curious as to whether you would all be in favour of increasing the speed limit on the outer ring road(N25) from the current speed limit of 60kmph to 80?

Do you feel 60 is too slow for such a stretch of road or do you think 80 would be unsafe?

Personally I'm amazed at the current speed limit....What's the point in having a by-pass when using it is actually longer than going through town?

south

Ri na hEireann wrote: »

Just curious as to whether you would all be in favour of increasing the speed limit on the outer ring road(N25) from the current speed limit of 60kmph to 80?

Do you feel 60 is too slow for such a stretch of road or do you think 80 would be unsafe?

Personally I'm amazed at the current speed limit....What's the point in having a by-pass when using it is actually longer than going through town?

it should be 100k

ec18

The speed limit is due to the distance between the ring roads from what I've heard

TheFlatulator

I feel it should be 80, as when you driving you had to keep the car slow as the distance and rate of flow needs to be at 80. If you think about it, most traffic is moving that fast anyways...

xanthe

Travel that stretch of road alot, heard also the speed limit is to be adjusted. 80 would be good though ...

Sully

Good question. 60 is to slow but is 80 to fast? Considering the distance from each roundabout, if you drive up at 80 do you have enough time to slow down when approaching the roundabout?

Obviously 90% of the drivers do not go at 60 on this stretch, so I assume 80 is okay.

100 is to fast for the stretch.

CantGetNoSleep

I think that the reason for it being 60 is that more development is expected along the ring road, meaning there will be far more entrances and exits to shopping complexes etc, so it will be safer driving at 60 with these

Mini

Personally I think it should be 80, I would travel from one end of that road to the other for work every day and to be perfectly honest, not using is much quicker for some reason.

Why all the roundabouts ? surely slip roads would have been more effective in some places rather than roundabouts.

Anyway - back to point, not many people actually go 60 on that road anyway unless they have a L plate - so I think yes, it should be increased to 80 with a notice that says roundabouts approaching also! There is one or two good stretchs on that road that you could easily do 80 on.

CantGetNoSleep

It is also stupid that they couldn't build a flyover at the Tramore road but built on one that shi*ty road close by, try going in there at 8.30am

Sully

CantGetNoSleep wrote: »

It is also stupid that they couldn't build a flyover at the Tramore road but built on one that shi*ty road close by, try going in there at 8.30am

Take the back road before it (just after Pawdy). Otherwise, take the old Waterford to Tramore road and when you reach the ORR take a left and travel down to the main roundabout. Both work very well during heavy traffic.

mike65

Cost cost cost! Roundabouts are a fraction the price of cloverleafs/flyovers etc. There was never a chance in hell of sophisicated infrastructure on the OTT and to be honest its not required, what is required is 80 kph and a spur to run behind the Williamstown golf club to the Dunmore road. It'll never happen though.

Mike.

Bards

Sully wrote: »

Good question. 60 is to slow but is 80 to fast? Considering the distance from each roundabout, if you drive up at 80 do you have enough time to slow down when approaching the roundabout?

Obviously 90% of the drivers do not go at 60 on this stretch, so I assume 80 is okay.

100 is to fast for the stretch.

If you have ever driven on the Kilkenny Ring Road you would know that it is 100 Km/H, have as many roundabouts even closer together and is even more built up than the ORR. So to say that 100 Km/H would be too fast for a Median Seperated Dual Carrigaeway is a stretch of the imagination

wellbutty

When it opened, I imposed my own speed limit of 100kmh, so far so good A cop told me that anyone doing the legal speed limit on that road is "suspicious" and likely to get pulled

CantGetNoSleep

wellbutty wrote: »

When it opened, I imposed my own speed limit of 100kmh, so far so good A cop told me that anyone doing the legal speed limit on that road is "suspicious" and likely to get pulled

Why then do the cops do speed checks on that road?

Tanabe

CantGetNoSleep wrote: »

Why then do the cops do speed checks on that road?

Rarely use ORR for that reason. I agree it should be 100K/hr also.

Cabaal

ec18 wrote: »

The speed limit is due to the distance between the ring roads from what I've heard

Kilkenny has 80 and 100 yet the distances are less, I've never seen it cause any issues on the ringroads up there

Tellox

funny enough wellbutty, the only time I've ever been stopped on that road is when I was doing 60km/h. Learning from that incident, I've overtaken squad cars on that road, and not had a thing said to me.

deisemum

wellbutty wrote: »

When it opened, I imposed my own speed limit of 100kmh, so far so good A cop told me that anyone doing the legal speed limit on that road is "suspicious" and likely to get pulled

I stick to the 60km/h and most people overtake me. I've no intention of breaking the speed limit on that road as I know several people including my mother in law who've been caught doing around 80km/h and they've been fined and got points.

horsebokks

the reason for the lower set speed limit is because of the presence of the adjacent footpaths and thus making it a "pedestrian friendly built up area"....
dont know why they bothered with the 60kph because any time i've been on that road i reckon 1 in 5 drivers were within the speed limit

Sully

deisemum wrote: »

I stick to the 60km/h and most people overtake me. I've no intention of breaking the speed limit on that road as I know several people including my mother in law who've been caught doing around 80km/h and they've been fined and got points.

And fair play to you. Your dead right, dont take the risk.

The guards in Waterford will pull you over on the ORR if you drive considerably over the speed limit. Speaking from experience.

CantGetNoSleep

Sully wrote: »

And fair play to you. Your dead right, dont take the risk.

The guards in Waterford will pull you over on the ORR if you drive considerably over the speed limit. Speaking from experience.

But surely they will penalise you for doing 65 kmh or so if they catch you at a spped trap - what is the point of doing speed checks if they are only going to stop people going considerably over the limit - does the cop make up his own speed limit on the spot?

Sully

CantGetNoSleep wrote: »

But surely they will penalise you for doing 65 kmh or so if they catch you at a spped trap - what is the point of doing speed checks if they are only going to stop people going considerably over the limit - does the cop make up his own speed limit on the spot?

Iv no idea what the policy is, but those who say they go "60" often go a little above anyway.

They pull people over who break the speed considerably as they are more dangerous I suppose!

BBM77

Ri na hEireann wrote: »

Just curious as to whether you would all be in favour of increasing the speed limit on the outer ring road(N25) from the current speed limit of 60kmph to 80?

Do you feel 60 is too slow for such a stretch of road or do you think 80 would be unsafe?

Personally I'm amazed at the current speed limit....What's the point in having a by-pass when using it is actually longer than going through town?

Absolutely, the speed limits in this country are a mess in general. For example, a relatively good road like the Tramore road is 80kph (not 100% sure, someone might correct me); turn off on to a boreen and the speed limit is 100kph. There are cases like this all over the place. The speed limits are such a mess that they are ignored by a large number of motorists and this of course has a negative knock on effect. If the speed limits made scene and reflected the safety or not of the road it governed they would be respected by motorists. This would have an overall positive effect of road safety.

BBM77

Sully wrote: »

...They pull people over who break the speed considerably as they are more dangerous I suppose!

Myth, speed does not cause crash’s stupid driving does.

CantGetNoSleep

Ballybrickenman wrote: »

Myth, speed does not cause crash’s stupid driving does.

But stupid driving is more dangerous at higher speeds

Tellox

Ballybrickenman wrote: »

Myth, speed does not cause crash’s stupid driving does.

Debateable.
Most people don't know their limits.

BBM77

I have a full licence for 8 years and I am driving for 10 years. It is my experience that speeding is not the underlying causes most accidents. If somebody is doing 70 on a 60 road and overtakes on a bend, it is the overtaking that caused the crash. Speeding, speeding, speeding is constantly bandied around as the main cause of traffic accidents along with drink driving. A lot of drivers are just not paying attention to driving and I would point the finger of blame particularly at middle aged motorists. I do a lot of cycling and when somebody cuts me up or drives to close or puts me in danger somehow, 95% of the time, when I look in the driver’s seat it is a middle aged person at the wheel. I know some people will not like me saying this but that is what I have experienced.

Sully

CantGetNoSleep wrote: »

But stupid driving is more dangerous at higher speeds

Exactly.

Overtake at a slower speed on a bend - risky.

Overtake at a faster speed on bend - much more risky.

Hence, being more risky gives higher chance of being a crash.

Mellor

Ballybrickenman wrote: »

Myth, speed does not cause crash’s stupid driving does.

Myth?? What are you talking about.
Of course stupid driving causes crashes, such as overtaking at bends, or ant other stupid driving.
But its fairly obvious that you are more likely to crash at higher speeds. Any rational person can see this.
Trying to drive down a narrow winding backroad at 100km/h is alot harder than at 30, so it is the speed here that is the only cause of making it more difficult and therefor making you likely to crash

Gadgie

Ballybrickenman wrote: »

Absolutely, the speed limits in this country are a mess in general. For example, a relatively good road like the Tramore road is 80kph (not 100% sure, someone might correct me); turn off on to a boreen and the speed limit is 100kph.

I don't think there are any 100km/h roads off the Tramore Road, but your point is still a valid one. You can turn off the 60km/h ORR and then do 80 on the Airport road. Or turn off the Tramore road and take the coast road drive to Dunmore and the limit is still 80, when it should be 30 for a big chunk of it.

The speed limits are such a mess that they are ignored by a large number of motorists and this of course has a negative knock on effect. If the speed limits made scene and reflected the safety or not of the road it governed they would be respected by motorists. This would have an overall positive effect of road safety.

I agree 100%. Unfortunately at the moment speed limits are set by the type of route that the road is on (regional/national/etc.) and not based on the actual quality of the road.

CantGetNoSleep

Sully wrote: »

Exactly.

Overtake at a slower speed on a bend - risky.

Overtake at a faster speed on bend - much more risky.

Hence, being more risky gives higher chance of being a crash.

I'm not even talking about overtaking on a bend, that is downright stupidity

On a road such as the ORR you will have people switching lanes carelessly without observing properly, not slowing down at roundabouts, and leaving or joining the road at entrances. These are situations where a crash can happen, and given the driving I see on this road I am amazed that they don't happen on a daily basis

But if they do happen they will be far worse at 80kmh than at 60kmh

BBM77

Mellor wrote: »

Myth?? What are you talking about.
Of course stupid driving causes crashes, such as overtaking at bends, or ant other stupid driving.
But its fairly obvious that you are more likely to crash at higher speeds. Any rational person can see this.
Trying to drive down a narrow winding backroad at 100km/h is alot harder than at 30, so it is the speed here that is the only cause of making it more difficult and therefor making you likely to crash

The point I was trying to make is that road safety in Ireland seems to overly fixate on speeding as the cause of a large proportion of car crashes. To me when crashes are investigated the underlying cause points more in the direction of dangerous roads, poor concentration, not adapting to road – weather conditions, inexperience, poor tuition and outright stupidity. You are right Mellor, you are more likely to crash on a bad road if you are doing 100kph than 70kph but to me the root problem here is inexperience or just not driving with due care and attention. The speeding is a follow on consequence.

Bards

Ballybrickenman wrote: »

The point I was trying to make is that road safety in Ireland seems to overly fixate on speeding as the cause of a large proportion of car crashes. To me when crashes are investigated the underlying cause points more in the direction of dangerous roads, poor concentration, not adapting to road – weather conditions, inexperience, poor tuition and outright stupidity. You are right Mellor, you are more likely to crash on a bad road if you are doing 100kph than 70kph but to me the root problem here is inexperience or just not driving with due care and attention. The speeding is a follow on consequence.

the only difference between crashing at 50 Km/H and 100 Km/H is the fact that you are more likely to die at 100 Km/H than at 50 Km/H

crashes do happen at slow speeds (even more of them), its just that they aren't as reported as much. Take the ones mentioned on this page Re Superquinn and Ardkeen as examples

wellbutty

All good points but how about these scenarios:

1) You're a cop instructed to set up a speed trap in order to earn money for the government coffers
2) You're a cop instructed to set up a speed trap in order to save lives

Now ask yourself this.....which category does the ORR speed trap (with its concrete barrier to seperate traffic) most likely fit into???

Think of all the dangerous roads without regular speed traps....

Think of all those people doing 40kmh on a road with an 80kmh speed limit and will not pull over onto the hard shoulder for a few seconds to let faster cars pass.

2 weeks ago I was on the way to work at 7.30am. I was coming from the Hospital entrance heading towards the roundabout that meets the ORR, I was turning right to head towards town. I'm on the inside lane, indicating right, watching my left wing mirror for the inevitable cut-off from a black jeep that's heading for the ORR, I'm just around the corner and WOW...there's a cop car stopped in my lane (hidden by the roundabout plants/shrubs/hill) after pulling over a Ford Fiesta ON the roundabout!

Is road safety REALLY the priority? Or is it a money-making scheme for a government that's off-budget?

ChapOfDRyans

the long stretch of road thats up hill before the dunhill roundabout is where i picked up my penelty points on that road,was doing 80 and the gardi were hiding in the middle of the roundabout with a squad car at the otherside.

BBM77

wellbutty wrote: »

All good points but how about these scenarios:

1) You're a cop instructed to set up a speed trap in order to earn money for the government coffers
2) You're a cop instructed to set up a speed trap in order to save lives

Now ask yourself this.....which category does the ORR speed trap (with its concrete barrier to seperate traffic) most likely fit into???

Think of all the dangerous roads without regular speed traps....

Think of all those people doing 40kmh on a road with an 80kmh speed limit and will not pull over onto the hard shoulder for a few seconds to let faster cars pass.

2 weeks ago I was on the way to work at 7.30am. I was coming from the Hospital entrance heading towards the roundabout that meets the ORR, I was turning right to head towards town. I'm on the inside lane, indicating right, watching my left wing mirror for the inevitable cut-off from a black jeep that's heading for the ORR, I'm just around the corner and WOW...there's a cop car stopped in my lane (hidden by the roundabout plants/shrubs/hill) after pulling over a Ford Fiesta ON the roundabout!

Is road safety REALLY the priority? Or is it a money-making scheme for a government that's off-budget?

I remember a year or two ago when 2 people were killed on the same spot on the Williamstown Rd in separate crash’s in the space of a month. I was driving in the Williamstown Rd, not a sign of a Garda. I turned left on to the Outer Ring Road (a dual carriageway, considered the safest type of roads) and there was a Garda doing speed checks.

Another time I was driving down from Dublin, all the way down the dangerous N9 and not a sign of a Garda. Came on to Sallypark (again a dual carriageway, considered the safest type of roads); Garda’s in a corner doing speed checks.

It is hard not to think it is money and not safety.

CantGetNoSleep

Ballybrickenman wrote: »

I remember a year or two ago when 2 people were killed on the same spot on the Williamstown Rd in separate crash’s in the space of a month. I was driving in the Williamstown Rd, not a sign of a Garda. I turned left on to the Outer Ring Road (a dual carriageway, considered the safest type of roads) and there was a Garda doing speed checks.

Another time I was driving down from Dublin, all the way down the dangerous N9 and not a sign of a Garda. Came on to Sallypark (again a dual carriageway, considered the safest type of roads); Garda’s in a corner doing speed checks.

It is hard not to think it is money and not safety.

I don't think it even takes any thought, its glaringly obvious imo

Tony_ire

I thought the reason the speed limit was so ridiculously low is because the cheaper tarmac that they used when building would rip up if large trucks went any faster.. anyone else hear this?

wellbutty

Yeah i did hear that. I emailed WLR just after the road opened saying that the surface looked too rough and too thin to be a finishing course of tarmac...especially on the roundabouts.

I reckon sections of the road will have to be resurfaced once all the building along the route is finished

Trick of the Tail

Ballybrickenman is correct, 'speed' does not cause accidents. What is meant by 'speed' anyway? 5kph is 'speed'.

Driving at a speed inappropriate to the conditions is dangerous, and that is a symptom of Bad Driving.

As has been said, many speed limits in this country are inappropriate to the road - whether it be the 100kph limit on the Dublin road where its 16 feet wide or the 60kph limit on the ORR where its a median-separated dual carriageway.

You do not suddenly become 'dangerous' when you exceed a speed limit that has been imposed incorrectly.

What IS dangerous, and what DOES cause accidents, is Bad Driving! Which MAY include inappropriate speed or it may not.

In fact, statistics actually prove that most road accidents DO NOT involve driving at a speed in excess of the speed limit.

The problem is, as this country's speed limits are set based on the class of the road and not on the condition of it, we have many incorrect limits. People know this, and will then break the limit when they feel it is safe to do so. That leads to a general disregard for the limits and can disimprove driving standards.

If all speed limits were audited and revised so that they actually reflected a safe maximum speed for each road, people would feel more comfortable driving within those limits and would be less likely to break them.

In my opinion, the one factor above all others that causes driving accidents is poor driving ability. For God's sake, we can drive around with no licence if we want! There are far too many people on the roads who simply do not posess the required level of skill to do so in today's busy road conditions.

THAT is what needs to be addressed.

A.

BBM77

alinton wrote: »

Ballybrickenman is correct, 'speed' does not cause accidents. What is meant by 'speed' anyway? 5kph is 'speed'.

Driving at a speed inappropriate to the conditions is dangerous, and that is a symptom of Bad Driving.

As has been said, many speed limits in this country are inappropriate to the road - whether it be the 100kph limit on the Dublin road where its 16 feet wide or the 60kph limit on the ORR where its a median-separated dual carriageway.

You do not suddenly become 'dangerous' when you exceed a speed limit that has been imposed incorrectly.

What IS dangerous, and what DOES cause accidents, is Bad Driving! Which MAY include inappropriate speed or it may not.

In fact, statistics actually prove that most road accidents DO NOT involve driving at a speed in excess of the speed limit.

The problem is, as this country's speed limits are set based on the class of the road and not on the condition of it, we have many incorrect limits. People know this, and will then break the limit when they feel it is safe to do so. That leads to a general disregard for the limits and can disimprove driving standards.

If all speed limits were audited and revised so that they actually reflected a safe maximum speed for each road, people would feel more comfortable driving within those limits and would be less likely to break them.

In my opinion, the one factor above all others that causes driving accidents is poor driving ability. For God's sake, we can drive around with no licence if we want! There are far too many people on the roads who simply do not posess the required level of skill to do so in today's busy road conditions.

THAT is what needs to be addressed.

A.

Absolutely Alinton.

For anybody who still doubts that speeding does not cause accidents, I ask you this. If speed causes accidents how come there is a lower proportion of accidents in the UK even though the average speed is much higher.

Cabaal

Speed is a massive factor in crashes, say what you want but somebody going 30km who hits a wall should be ok, somebody going 120km is unlikely to end up pretty dead or injured.

Nobody drives 100% safe so its much easier to limit speed then to expect every Jane and Joe to actually pay attention when driving, most people don't know how to change lanes, use roundabouts, what the yellow box's at junctions are for, also there's people going far far too fast in built up area's where the unexpected can very much happen.

Alot of these people also have full licenses...but they might have got them in the 1970's.

If your driving in a built up area at 80km and a kid jumps out in front of you can you honestly say you can stop in time if he's only a few metres ahead? would you do a better job if you were driving at 50km or less?

The only true way of insuring people drive safe is:
- ensure speeds are correct fopr roads in question
- ensure everyone is a capable driver, get them to resit the driving test every 9 years

Ri na hEireann

If your driving in a built up area at 80km and a kid jumps out in front of you can you honestly say you can stop in time if he's only a few metres ahead? would you do a better job if you were driving at 50km or less?

I don't think this is an issue if your talkin about a residential area because I doubt,from my experience, that many drivers drive 80kmph in a built up residential areas anyway.And in the case of housing estates its very rare even to see 50 I would have thought with most having speed ramps and children at play signs etc...

If we're to be rational about this nobody can deny that 80 is a perfectly reasonable speed for this road. Some posters have mentioned 100 (personally I think thats a bit much) so surely 80 would be reasonable?

I know someone who got done for doing 64 on this stretch of road which essentially validates this ethos

1) You're a cop instructed to set up a speed trap in order to earn money for the government coffers

BBM77

Cabaal wrote: »

...........Nobody drives 100% safe so its much easier to limit speed then to expect every Jane and Joe to actually pay attention when driving, most people don't know how to change lanes, use roundabouts, what the yellow box's at junctions are for, also there's people going far far too fast in built up area's where the unexpected can very much happen..........

There will always be the idiot, but the general standard of driving and awareness in Ireland is very low, this causes a lot of crash’s and has nothing to do with speeding. I don’t think it is too much to expect a higher general standard of driving.

Cabaal

Ri na hEireann wrote: »

I don't think this is an issue if your talkin about a residential area because I doubt,from my experience, that many drivers drive 80kmph in a built up residential areas anyway.And in the case of housing estates its very rare even to see 50 I would have thought with most having speed ramps and children at play signs etc...

If we're to be rational about this nobody can deny that 80 is a perfectly reasonable speed for this road. Some posters have mentioned 100 (personally I think thats a bit much) so surely 80 would be reasonable?

I know someone who got done for doing 64 on this stretch of road which essentially validates this ethos

Well don't get me wrong I actually think the outer ring road should be 80km, I do think 100km is abit too much for it...mainly because of amount of roundabouts.

While the outer roundabouts in Kilkenny have a 100km limit very few people actually go this because its not very suitable due to the amount of roundabouts (though you'd see it late at night more so)

scout353

I think the ORR speed limit is way off the mark. If that road was in UK or Continent the speed limit would be at least 100kph.

It is a two lane highway with concrete median - having 60kph is ridiculous though I understand that the reason for that is the legislation governing the speed limit was automatically 60kph because the road is inside the city limits - remember when the town limit of 30mph was just beyond the Kilbarry Sports Centre while the 40mph was about 100 yards further on the road and the town speed limit is now at Ballindud.

It is then left to Local Authorities to change the limit themselves if they see fit!

When you can turn off a two lane highway at any of the roundabouts onto smaller, more dangerous routes and enjoy an increase in speed limit is a bit "Irish" in every sense of the word!!!

By the way when the old town limit was by Kilbarry the cops used to hide in there too so I guess it is hard not to think about the money making aspect of the issue!!

And the one question that has always bugged me - where does the €80 fine go???????

deisemum

Earlier this week on The George Hook Show on Newstalk they were discussing the amount of money that road traffice fines generate. I was shocked to hear that €100,000 is generated per day.

Trick of the Tail

Cabaal wrote: »

somebody going 30km who hits a wall should be ok, somebody going 120km is likely to end up pretty dead or injured.

Well on that logic, let's have 15kph speed limits so we can all drive into walls safely anytime we want.

Re the ring road, I think there's a slight misunderstanding of the point of a speed limit on it. If it was a 100kph limit, that does not mean that you HAVE to do that speed! You drive within your ability based on prevailing road conditions.

You could have a 200kph limit, it doesn't mean everyone would be frantically accelerating to that speed after leaving a roundabout, then slamming on the brakes before the next!

The essence of good driving is driving within your ability and the prevailing road conditions. If everyone was skilled enough to practice that there would actually be no need for speed limits.

So in order to approach general, countrywide good driving and minimise accidents, the importance of good driving education should be appreciated and enhanced.

That would prevent problems, which is easier and more efficient than trying to fix them afterwards.

Andy.

Sully

alinton wrote: »

Ballybrickenman is correct, 'speed' does not cause accidents. What is meant by 'speed' anyway? 5kph is 'speed'.

Fair enough. Ill rephrase it to "excessive speed" which is driving at a speed considered to be to dangerous for the conditions of the road including length, amount of bends, weather condition and so on. Hence why we have speed limits on our roads - most (not all) are judged based on the road general condition and also location.

Driving at a speed inappropriate to the conditions is dangerous, and that is a symptom of Bad Driving.

Didnt you just say

'speed' does not cause accidents.

? Seems a contradiction. Speed will result in the accident which is a result of bad driving. It all ties in, and that's pretty much fact.

As has been said, many speed limits in this country are inappropriate to the road - whether it be the 100kph limit on the Dublin road where its 16 feet wide or the 60kph limit on the ORR where its a median-separated dual carriageway.

Agreed. There are some stupid limits on roads - either to fast or to slow. I do believe this is a small factor in Irish road accidents.

You do not suddenly become 'dangerous' when you exceed a speed limit that has been imposed incorrectly.

Well that depends. In some cases, 60km/hr on a road that is perfectly suitable for 80km/hr is breaking the official speed limit but not the proper limit. Fact is, this isn't a problem on our roads. People go way to far over the current and proper speed limit of a road. This is bad driving, and will result in an accident. Speed is a form of bad driving, which at the end of the day can still be said to be a cause of an accident.

What IS dangerous, and what DOES cause accidents, is Bad Driving! Which MAY include inappropriate speed or it may not.

See above.

In fact, statistics actually prove that most road accidents DO NOT involve driving at a speed in excess of the speed limit.

Can I see these stats please?

The problem is, as this country's speed limits are set based on the class of the road and not on the condition of it, we have many incorrect limits. People know this, and will then break the limit when they feel it is safe to do so. That leads to a general disregard for the limits and can disimprove driving standards.

Some people break it to what they and many others consider to be a safe limit for the other. Others go even further which is far to fast for the road.

If all speed limits were audited and revised so that they actually reflected a safe maximum speed for each road, people would feel more comfortable driving within those limits and would be less likely to break them.

Agreed.

In my opinion, the one factor above all others that causes driving accidents is poor driving ability. For God's sake, we can drive around with no licence if we want! There are far too many people on the roads who simply do not posess the required level of skill to do so in today's busy road conditions.

THAT is what needs to be addressed.

A.

Its part of the problem, but addressing that will not solve the problem completely.

Sully

alinton wrote: »

Well on that logic, let's have 15kph speed limits so we can all drive into walls safely anytime we want.

Sorry but its a stupid point. Its a fact - if you hit a wall at a lower speed your chance of survival is higher then if you crash into a wall at a much faster speed. What he said, was correct. Its fact and you cant dispute facts.

Re the ring road, I think there's a slight misunderstanding of the point of a speed limit on it. If it was a 100kph limit, that does not mean that you HAVE to do that speed! You drive within your ability based on prevailing road conditions.

100k/hr is far to fast for that road IMO. Driving even more above that would be stupid. Of course tho, driving slower is acceptable.

You could have a 200kph limit, it doesn't mean everyone would be frantically accelerating to that speed after leaving a roundabout, then slamming on the brakes before the next!

A lot of people will tho

The essence of good driving is driving within your ability and the prevailing road conditions. If everyone was skilled enough to practice that there would actually be no need for speed limits.

Clearly most of the world has got it all wrong despite years of study!

So in order to approach general, countrywide good driving and minimise accidents, the importance of good driving education should be appreciated and enhanced.

That would prevent problems, which is easier and more efficient than trying to fix them afterwards.

Andy.

Agreed.

Cabaal

Sully, thank feck somebody is seeing sense in this thread, have to agree with most of your responses.