Warr Tank Advice

copeyhagen

I didnt wanna piggy back on someone elses thread so I decided to start my own.

basically i need some good advice about my warr.

i took a 5 month break back in august or so and came back and started doing pvp, but i sucked so bad with him that i started my hunter(whos 60 now but im keepin him at 60 to farm honor at av). with the hunter i regularly finish top in av, dunno why i sucked with the warr. anyway, i specced prot yesterday, left the pvp guild i was in and joined a small pvp guild with about 12 lvl 70's, few in the 60's and a handfull lower.

i havent tanked an instance in about a year so to say im rusty is an understatement. found a site called tankspot.com i think it was and copied there warrior tanking build for 5 man, 10 man and heroics.

i remember most of the basics, like sunder armor is ur best friend, and taunt etc. and learned a few new tallents like devestate for when u have a few sunders on a target.

got some new gear yesterday and got some new gems and enchants too.

gonna be doin some instances tonight with the guild, probably just a couple of normals to get into the swing of things.

can anyone offer some advice on my gear, what to expect in kara (never been and have NO idea what to expect) although we probs wont be goin to kara anytime soon, i would like to see it before wotlk deems it a waste.

i have +stam gems for my shoulders, just havent socketed them yet, which should bring my hp up to about 12500 unbuffed. is that enough?

finally decided i wanna see this dude in purples, and pvp wasnt the way forward cuz i sucked!

*forgot to say, the toons name is copes and hes on laughing skull** cant copy the armory link when in work.

cheers all

goodlad

I took a look at your gear on the armory just now.
You seem to be wearing a mix of tanking and dps gear? Before you start kara i strongly advise getting your defence up so you will be crit immune.

imo your stam is a little low because you are not crit immune. IF you have the 490 defence needed then 12.5k stam is fine

As for tanking, that hasnt changed at all. Sunder, sunder etc... devistate etc...

edit: just looked again, your only wearing 7 pieces of tanking gear, the rest are all dps gear :eek:

Did a quick google for a list of gear you should aim for before starting kara. Its not a bad list
http://www.theoryspot.com/forums/gear-lists-rankings/31940-polar-s-easy-pre-karazhan-tank-gear-list.html

copeyhagen

bah, cant get onto that link in work. think i have the defence up to 405 in that gear. i have got more defensive gear in the bank.

if that link is the "pre kara tank gear" then i think i have about 80% of the items on that list in the bank

im only gonna be doin some normal level 70's for the next while, the purpose of being to build up gear aswell as the experience : )

goodlad

well first priority should always be to get defence 490 and after that work on stam, then on block/parry/dodge etc...

copeyhagen

when i was readin the guid last night i thought it said defence should be 390 to immune crit, so i thought, grand, im above that i can chop and change on my gear!!

i have more armour in the bank that has + defence on it, might need another gem or 2 or an enchant aswell.

is the sword too slow aswell? cheers for ur advice mate.

the shield sucks but its one of the 3 in the pre kara list so i dont think theres better out there for me yet (ofc not including the pvp one). hopefully ill get a dropped one in the near future.

copeyhagen

if the swords ok, what would be a good enchant, crusader?

what prices do the enchants go for? i know its diff on diff realms, just an average.

goodlad

Tbh its in no way a tanking sword. Its a dps main hand sword.
Reason for the slow speed is because the crits will he higher for special abilities, all special abilities use main hand weapon.

You should look for a much faster sword for tanking. Try pick one up in an instance or get revered with the shattered sun offensive and pick up:

Inuuro's Blade
Binds when picked up
One-Hand Sword
80 - 121 Damage Speed 1.40
(71.8 damage per second)
+21 Stamina
Durability 90 / 90
Requires Shattered Sun Offensive - Revered
Equip: Increases defense rating by 13 (5.5 @ L70).
Equip: Improves hit rating by 8 (0.51% @ L70).
Equip: Increases your expertise rating by 11 (2.79 @ L70).

As for enchants crusader has passed its time in my opinion. Its more used for twinks now. But on the other hand, if you just have a blue weapon like that u might aswell stick crusader on it and save high level enchanting for when you get a nice epic sword that you will keep for a while

copeyhagen

i had latro's shifting sword and i sold it when i got my two epic pvp swords cuz i thought i wouldnt need it ever again...

IDIOT!!

what would be a better enchant then, for when i do get a good fast weapon?

goodlad

Its kinda personal choice really. Battle master. mongoose, +strength.
Just check em out later.
If you dont use the site you should check out www.wowhead.com
Search something and check out the comments section of the item/enchant. There is uaually good advice there to help you decide.

The main reason i say i dont like crusader is because you end up replying on a proc and the proc rate on crusader is very low at lvl 70.

copeyhagen

ah i see. think ill do a few bm runs tonight once i have my defence up to 490, see if i can get the sword again!!

whats the goin rate approx for mongoose?

executioner looks the most imba but is probably useless for pve is it

goodlad

honestly i wouldnt know prices, i get all enchants dont with guildys so next to nothing.

By the way, the sword from bm is fast yeah but its not a tanking weapon.
If you havent already gone to nagrand and complete the quest to kill that big mutha ****er durn the hungerer then do that. One of the reward choices is:

Crystalline Kopesh
Binds when picked up
One-Hand Sword
88 - 165 Damage Speed 2.10
(60.2 damage per second)
+18 Stamina
Durability 90 / 90
Equip: Increases defense rating by 12 (6.24 @ L66).
Equip: Improves hit rating by 13 (1.01% @ L66).

Dustaz

I have no idea about gear since i never tank seriously on my warr but one thing to note is that im pretty sure you dont need sunder anymore.

Correct me if im wrong but doesnt Devastate does the job of sunder now? I.e. it applies sunder and not just refreshes it.

Anti

Dont bother with BM, go to MgT and get the shifting sword. its got better stats as it will ignore 198 of your enemys armor. Ive got both of the swords 3 times each Their great for pvp when i want to pwn rogues.

goodlad

Dustaz wrote: »

I have no idea about gear since i never tank seriously on my warr but one thing to note is that im pretty sure you dont need sunder anymore.

Correct me if im wrong but doesnt Devastate does the job of sunder now? I.e. it applies sunder and not just refreshes it.

Yup your dead right! i had totally forgot about that!
If i actually even played my warrior i probs would of realised that,hehe!

I live on my paladin these days

BKtje

My main is a warrior (well was till my guild fell apart and ic an't be arsed anymore).

As has been said, devestate does the job of sunder now so if your prot spec then no need for sunder on your bar.

You really need 490 def or you will be toast i'm afraid unless your healers can keep up with the spikes due to crits.

12k hp to do the first few bosses is plenty, you might need a bit more to tank some of the later bosses (nightbane and prince in particular since they can hit hard/burst).

Regarding weapon, there is an axe that i used for a while. Think it comes from the Oronok quest line. This works fine till you got revered shattered sun offensive, epic 1h sword drop from heroic mech (sun eater?) or the king's defender from chess event in kara.

Regarding enchants, it depends a bit on your style. Personally i'd go with +agi (more dodge, but others go with +str for more threat) till you get kings defender and then get mongoose(i wouldnt waste money onan expensive enchant till you have a weapon that you will keep) on that but thats just my personal preference. I have over 30% dodge in my "trash" gear and have another high shield block/stam gear for bosses which crush (majority of em). Mongoose increases your agility by a fair amount which of course increase your dodge.

Tanking can be about whatever style suits you. One thing i will say, use heroic strike sparingly unless you got rage to burn as its the least effecient rage generator (since it eats rage + doesnt allow your normal swing to create any). Also remember that cleave no longer breaks cc as of patch 2.4 (but thunder clap still does i think).
Ever thought about going as a dps warrior? Lets you pvp some as well with the right spec and still be decent in Kara level raids (arms, not fury).

Happy tanking

copeyhagen

cheers for all the replies. arnt dps warrs the most unwanted spec of any class? i presume it would be a full ms build.

that Crystalline Kopesh looks decent enough.

any advice on where to get a shield?

does shifting sword from MgT drop in normal or heroic? whats MgT like? might try it tonight in a normal run. ofc after i get my defence up to 490.

"Also remember that cleave no longer breaks cc as of patch 2.4 (but thunder clap still does i think)."

what do you mean, that if a mob is sap'd or sheeped it will break it?

probably a nub question, cheers guys.

goodlad

any damage will break a crowd control effect on a mob. But last patch a few abilities were changed so they wont break the cc. But thunder clap is not one that was changed so it will still break a sheep etc..

And hell no dps warriors arnt unwanted. My last 3 guilds have all had dps warriors as permantnt parts of our end game raiding team. And here is the shocker! I get to end game raid as a ret spec paladin :-p

copeyhagen

seems like a nice guild : )

i tried a few times to find groups when i was ms spec but no one wanted a warr unless i was willin to tank. maybe its just my realm.

i forgot to ask, doesnt devistate cause more damage more and threat to the target with the more sunders u have stacked on that target, i might have been reading it wrong.

Anti

MgT is a hard place for a tank or healer. The only way i have ever gone through with no hassle is with the following composisitionin a group

Tank - Pref not a paly tank who uses concentrate, as this makes it hard to pull the aggro for the CC
Healer - Priest only, the lack of HoT on a healadin is a huge downfall. But it can be done if there is alot of +healing gear
Rogue - Is just here to sap, and thats about it. And do some dps on the bosses that dont spawn adds or have adds with them. i.e the first boss.
Mage - The main CC of the group, and should be the main DPS too
Hunter - Really essential for the trash mobs in this instance. make sure the hunter lays down a trap 15-20 seconds before the pull so he can double trap with ease. If the fight goes on a bit then the hunter can kite around with ease. Make sure its a MM spec hunter and Not a BM. As we all know BM hunters cant dps for **** !

The problem with this instance is that you will often face 5/6 ( there is usually 1 healer in every group, take him down first ) mobs at a time. So you really need to sap one, freeze one and sheep another. That way the tank can stay in one spot holding aggro while the healer concentrates soley on the tank and the rest just over dps like mad. Then the hunter can doube trap by the time the first mob is down. The second boss i can imagine is a nightmare to tank, as he spanws adds over afew waves.... And these adds when killed give you a massive -1700dmg buff. So every second you loose 1700 odd health. But if you dont kill the adds they use some lightening attack that does 2000-3000 to all close party members. To get around this i find the best way is to put huge dps on the boss, and as soon as the adds come use your quickest attacker ( Hunter with multishot / Rogue ) The buff stacks so it will last a fair time, but a HoT and a few heals/pots/first aid will keep the person alive enough for 2/3 waves. But as soon as the first wave starts the person should not bother attacking the boss much, just stay in range of the healer Bear in mind, if the mage uses his element or the hunter his pet to attack the adds the die right away.

I didnt go over the first boss, as well you can 2 man him with ease. He only does 1000dmg every 4 seconds. But to make the fight quick just nuke the crystals asap. Think of him as the last boss form SV. And the second boss is a mini curator.

The third boss is by far the hardest. As there are 5 mini bosses. Not a tough fight as such, but most groups seem to fall apart here. The trick is to CC like mad. Drop the healer first, then the mage, then the big bitch.

The last boss Kael is really stupidly easy, even on heroic. All you have to do is nuke the pheonix asap, or kite it around ( there are two ways, but ill explain the easiest ) So just kill it asap, when its dead a egg will spawn. Kill that asap too. Now all you have to do is max dps on Kael untill he throws you in the air. At this point 4/5 balls will spawn and move around the room. Stay away from these or its game over, Also while in the air dont touch the ground either. So all you have to do is avoice the balls and dps. If you kill him quick enough he will be dead while your in the air. If no he will drop you to the ground and spawn another pheonix. So just follow the steps. and hope he drops something nice for you.

I think thats everything really.

rainbow kirby

copeyhagen wrote: »

cheers for all the replies. arnt dps warrs the most unwanted spec of any class? i presume it would be a full ms build.

that Crystalline Kopesh looks decent enough.

any advice on where to get a shield?

(Paladin tank PoV) DPS warriors in my groups can be annoying as hell, especially if they are the kind that thinks that taunting off the tank to have their own target is a good idea. A good one can be nice though, decent DPS and not squishy!

Shields - Shadow Labyrinth first boss - Platinum Shield of the Valorous, Botanica 2nd boss - Aegis of the Sunbird, Zuluhed the Whacked questline in Shadowmoon Valley - Netherwing Protector's Shield, S1 shield - Gladiator's Shield Wall. Plenty available out there.

Have you got any of the Felsteel gear? Gloves and helm would be worthwhile for you, and they're easy to get because a lot of blacksmiths make them for levelling. Also, if you haven't done the Arca key quest, do that for a belt with a pile of block rating/value on it. You need to lose the PvP gear as soon as possible - you can replace your chest too with the Aldor chest (which is *much* better for avoidance).

The third boss is by far the hardest. As there are 5 mini bosses. Not a tough fight as such, but most groups seem to fall apart here. The trick is to CC like mad. Drop the healer first, then the mage, then the big bitch.

Treating this as a 5v5 arena game makes things a lot easier, the adds and priestess have no aggro table.

copeyhagen

yeh i have the felsteel gloves and helm in bank, with enchants. have the Netherwing Protector's Shield aswell.

thats a nice description of mgt.. sounds tough!

at home now gonna try sort my gear, il lrepost when im done!

WellyJ

goodlad wrote:

I took a look at your gear on the armory just now.
You seem to be wearing a mix of tanking and dps gear? Before you start kara i strongly advise getting your defence up so you will be crit immune.

imo your stam is a little low because you are not crit immune. IF you have the 490 defence needed then 12.5k stam is fine

As for tanking, that hasnt changed at all. Sunder, sunder etc... devistate etc...)

Actually this is fairly inaccurate.

Sunder Armor can be taken off any protection warriors action bars now as it is useless once you have trained Devastate.

Devastate now ADDS sunders while renewing current sunders, and dealing damage.

So 5 Devastates = 5 Sunders on the target.

Sunder armor is only really needed for PvP nowadays, are pve purposes if you dont have a prot warrior tanking.

(Sorry just read that this has been pointed out already, ignore me!)

copeyhagen

http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Laughing+Skull&n=Copes

nearly there, have 470 def.. this is tougher than i thought.

i might enchanct chest for +13 def, i will lose the +10 stam though.

my hp has already dropped back to 12,000.

i have nearly everything enchanted at this stage.. a weapon would sort me out nicely!!

is it possible to start doin normals with 470 or do u need the 490?

i can get that enchant later then change the +12 attack power on my chest gem to the thick dawnstone + 8 def... sorted.

gonna run a few mana tombs on normal tonight hopefully, so i can run a few heroics then and try get the 1h tanking sword..

rainbow kirby

Have you thought about getting Vindicator's Hauberk? You are revered with the Aldor, and this would give you a nice chunk of defense. Enchant with either def, 150 HP, or 6 all stats.

Also, once you can start doing heroics, you can go to heroic Mechanar for The Sun Eater - this will give you both avoidance and def-rating, and will serve you for a long time as a tanking weapon.

The engineering crafted gun Gyro-Balanced Khorium Destroyer will help to bring your stamina back up, either gem with 12 sta or 4 def/6 sta (which gives 3 sta socket bonus). Expensive to craft, but again will serve you well for a long time.

For a pair of avoidance boots, if you haven't already done the Mana-Tombs escort quest then do it for the Flesh Beast's Metal Greaves - your current ones are great for stamina, but weaker on proper tanking stats. Enchant should be fortitude (12 sta) or boar's speed (9 sta/increased run speed), but the 10 sta patch is fine for now.

You *can* start normals at 470, that's roughly where I started. 485 is cap for 5-man and heroic (level 72 bosses), but 490 is advisable. Do remember though that anything I say is coming from The Other Plate Tanking Class point of view though

copeyhagen

never seen that chest, idiot!

ill pick it up now

yeh the boots r fairly useless apart from the stam, had a browse on the ah and the crafted ones but this chest will take me up over the 490..sweet

thanks for the help everyone..

see if i can get a group wiped later on

copeyhagen

487 now will have to do for the time being!

rainbow kirby

Should be fine for normal, the rest will come with time

copeyhagen

done a few normal runs with guild today, not much problems, gettin back in to the swing of things! then tried to pug a hc bf, they hit so hard! the group decided to call it quits near the start. kinda have to agree, my hp is only like 11600 now or somethin.

jus remembered i have the high warlords hacker axe in the bank http://eu.wowarmory.com/item-info.xml?i=28921, its a lot faster. might do me for another few normals till i can start doin heroics confidently. what you guys think, would that axe be better than the s1 sword i was usin yeh?

should i get it enchanted or is it a waste.. golds not really a problem.

rainbow kirby

Blood Furnace is one of the harder heroics - probably better sticking to the easier ones like Slave Pens or Mechanar for the moment.

And there is a quested tanking axe (Grom'tor's Charge) from a questline in Shadowmoon Valley which would be a decent pre-heroic tank axe. Enchant agility if you're cheap, and mongoose if you're not.

Anti

copeyhagen wrote: »

done a few normal runs with guild today, not much problems, gettin back in to the swing of things! then tried to pug a hc bf, they hit so hard! the group decided to call it quits near the start. kinda have to agree, my hp is only like 11600 now or somethin.

jus remembered i have the high warlords hacker axe in the bank http://eu.wowarmory.com/item-info.xml?i=28921, its a lot faster. might do me for another few normals till i can start doin heroics confidently. what you guys think, would that axe be better than the s1 sword i was usin yeh?

should i get it enchanted or is it a waste.. golds not really a problem.

I wouldnt bother with enchants yet... Just get the armour kits( +10 stam in your case ). After a few heroics you should get some better gear. I just went through heroic SH with a guy in worse gear then you and all was fine.... We did have a t6 rogue, paly and priest though

For a quick boost do some pvp (bg) some great items out of it.

rainbow kirby

rainbow kirby wrote: »

Blood Furnace is one of the harder heroics - probably better sticking to the easier ones like Slave Pens or Mechanar for the moment.

BF harder than mech? Are you mad?

rainbow kirby

Felguard Annihilators on an undergeared tank, with no lock in the group = a *world* of pain tbh.

BKtje

I always considered Mech as the easiest Heroic and the third boss in Mgt is also find easy. As a tank there is very little you can do apart from taunt the mob off your healer whenever its you can.

WellyJ

Anti wrote: »

For a quick boost do some pvp (bg) some great items out of it.

The only item from Honor points that is at all useful for tanking is the Gladiator's Shield Wall.

copeyhagen

yeh i was thinking of going to try to get the gladiator shield wall, but as i said in an earlier post i suck at pvp on the war, although i would like to go farm av and tank balina and van.

think heroics r gettin knocked on the head for a few days anyway!!

that axe u mentioned from the quest line, i read that before, doesnt the quest line involve about 15 quests?!! heard its an awful line to complete

cheers again guys

Anti

WellyJ wrote: »

The only item from Honor points that is at all useful for tanking is the Gladiator's Shield Wall.

What about the rings ?

rainbow kirby

No +def or avoidance on them, so I wouldn't waste the honor on them.

copeyhagen

spent a couple of hours last night pvping on the warr, thought i wouldnt have a chance, haha i was amazed!

i kept the board and the warlords axe and it took multiple mobs, (in particular warriors in full s1/s2 seemed to go after me) ages to grind me down, even with my current gear.

had great fun tanking belinda and tanking van and managed to rack up about 6000 hoour points in a fairly quick time, considerin i suck with the warr.

dont know whenther to get the s1 shield this week, or wait for the s2 shield, which i think has about 600 more armor and like 15 block or something.

how many more weeks we gonna have to wait...

jason&arthur

while using green gems its 90% of the time its worth going for the socket bonus if its useful in any way to you, since the socket bonus value is based of the item level and since ur using lvl 70 blues they are almost always better to go for than stacking stats with green gems. in 3 socket items its sometimes different, but a good habit to get into is working out which gets u more *total* stats.

for example in ur bracers, an enduring deep purlot (3 def 4 stam) over the 9 stam gem would give u 3 def 7 stam vs 9 stam, which is clearly better esp. since stam is the cheapest stat in terms of ilvl.

another thing is Talasite are very very very very very cheap on most servers (talkin 3-6g each) and can often be worth buyin in bulk for a new tank, and just puttin +4 def +6 stam in every yellow and blue socket... maybe not on ur server, but its worth a look

copeyhagen

yeh i see what your saying, thanks for the info. ill check it out later.. doesnt seem to be many jewelcutters on my realm, i bought all the +9 stams and +8 def that were available over a few days, both in ah and from /2 spam!