Referendum called for a weekday

Macha

The Lisbon Treaty referendum was just called for Thursday June 12th

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/mhojojidojau/rss2/

Yet again, an important election/referendum has been called for a weekday and in the middle of student exams. I don't understand why people just allow this to happen? It's a patently obvious attempt to minimise the student vote.

As I understand it, it is written into Spanish and French law that elections & referendums must happen on a Sunday. Moreover, citizens of these countries are allowed to vote at their embassies when abroad.

Why isn't it like this in Ireland? How can we change this?

guinnessdrinker

I can't understand the logic of holding referenda or elections on weekdays other than to as you point out, minimise the student vote, (and to a lesser extent people that work away from home during the week).

Why do the government seem to not want young people to vote?

PHB

Students tend to be more in favour of Europe than other people.

That said, I do think FF actively don't want students to get involved in politics, because they are likely to just help out if there isn't exams on, and if they don't help out, they won't get involved, and since they tend to be disproportionately Labour and Green voters, never good.

Nonetheless, from the point of view of the Lisbon treaty, silly thing to do. The larger the turnout, the more chance it has of passing. The No vote is pretty strong, but no voters are always gona vote no, while yes voters have to be lured to the polls.

leninbenjamin

not again. they are probably just doing it because it gives all the civil servants a day off, whereas a Saturday would require them to, shock horror, work an extra day.

guinnessdrinker

leninbenjamin wrote: »

not again. they are probably just doing it because it gives all the civil servants a day off, whereas a Saturday would require them to, shock horror, work an extra day.

I'm sure they wouldn't mind too much if they got some overtime.

johnnyskeleton

They should give everyone a holiday, or at least a half day, to vote.

You just have to get up extra early, but unfortunately so many people have a massive commute and so won't be around in the morning when the polls open, or at night when they close.

Last election I got up an hour early, only to find my bike's tyres were flat, had to walk there and then get a crazy bus into work - arrived an hour late. 2 hours and a pain in my ass, to put in my vote. I'd do it again though.

Manic Moran

Half a day, my arse.

An extra hour of your day is all it should reasonably take if the polling stations are well situated.

And I like weekdays. For starters, it means that I don't need to leave the house on a weekend, or otherwise interrupt my weekend plans.

I'm out anyway. I can detour via the polling station on the way home from work. Or on the way into work.

NTM

guinnessdrinker

Manic Moran wrote: »

Half a day, my arse.

An extra hour of your day is all it should reasonably take if the polling stations are well situated.

And I like weekdays. For starters, it means that I don't need to leave the house on a weekend, or otherwise interrupt my weekend plans.

I'm out anyway. I can detour via the polling station on the way home from work. Or on the way into work.

NTM

All well and good Manic but what about the many students and people working away from home during the week?

IRLConor

guinnessdrinker wrote: »

All well and good Manic but what about the many students and people working away from home during the week?

Since it's a referendum then surely changing where you're registered to vote would be the smart move? I can see why you mightn't want to do that for a general election, but for a referendum there's no real reason to stay in your "home" constituency.

guinnessdrinker

IRLConor wrote: »

Since it's a referendum then surely changing where you're registered to vote would be the smart move? I can see why you mightn't want to do that for a general election, but for a referendum there's no real reason to stay in your "home" constituency.

True enough, you could register in another constituency for a referendum. But why not make it easier and give all students studying away from home a postal vote if elections are held on weekdays.

Or what about holding referendums and elections over two days, eg. friday and saturday?

EamonnKeane

student exams in mid june? no they aren't, i'll be quarter-way through my four months holiday by then

Breezer

EamonnKeane wrote: »

student exams in mid june? no they aren't, i'll be quarter-way through my four months holiday by then

Leaving Cert. Remember that thing? Less numbers involved though, and most will be living at home. Also Trinity exams go on for quite a while, although probably not that long.

guinnessdrinker

Ah, well spotted, I thought it was on May 12th.

Manic Moran

guinnessdrinker wrote: »

All well and good Manic but what about the many students and people working away from home during the week?

A problem which many people have. I'm spending six months in Kentucky instead of my home State of California. The answer is the provision of an absentee vote. I think that's going to solve a lot more problems than moving the vote to a weekend.

NTM

daithicarr

the last election was also held mid week was it not and with very little advanced warning of the exact date, i went on holidays and there was no date set, and i came back and it was over and done.

I recall when i was a student in university a number of important votes were during the week or near exam time when i could not possibly go home for them. i truely think the reason for this is a much larger than normal number of student voters, vote for other partys other than FF and PD (probably FF too) .

also i know people from other countrys (such as spain) who can vote in their embassy. why cant we have that option.

IRLConor

guinnessdrinker wrote: »

True enough, you could register in another constituency for a referendum. But why not make it easier and give all students studying away from home a postal vote if elections are held on weekdays.

Or what about holding referendums and elections over two days, eg. friday and saturday?

TBH, the real solution is a proper postal vote system.

Diogenes

daithicarr wrote: »

also i know people from other countrys (such as spain) who can vote in their embassy. why cant we have that option.

Number of Irish Citizens in Ireland, 4 million.

Number of people holding Irish Passports, abroad, 44 million.

Do you really want Irish Elections settled by a vast Diaspora across the globe?

IRLConor

Diogenes wrote: »

Number of Irish Citizens in Ireland, 4 million.

Number of people holding Irish Passports, abroad, 44 million.

Do you really want Irish Elections settled by a vast Diaspora across the globe?

I know that millions of people around the world claim Irish heritage, but do they all have passports? (I know they can, but have they followed it through?)

Scofflaw

Diogenes wrote: »

Number of Irish Citizens in Ireland, 4 million.

Number of people holding Irish Passports, abroad, 44 million.

Do you really want Irish Elections settled by a vast Diaspora across the globe?

Hmm. Are Irish parties allowed to accept funding from them?

intrigued,
Scofflaw

Diogenes

IRLConor wrote: »

I know that millions of people around the world claim Irish heritage, but do they all have passports? (I know they can, but have they followed it through?)

My mistake actually. 44 million is the figure for the potential Irish Passport holders. People who if they applied for Irish Nationality by heritage, (ie a grandparent is Irish) they would receive it. Source wikipedia

The number of actual Irish citizens abroad is massive though. Nearly a million Irish citizens live in the UK alone according the 2001 census. If allowed the vote they would radically effect the outcome of any general election or referendum.

Chakar

I'm a student in UCD and all UCD exams are finished on 30th May. I'm finished my exams on the 15th May. As a result I will be able to canvass for a 'Yes' vote with my fellow Fianna Fáil members for a good while.

daithicarr

why shouldnt we be allowed to vote if we are out of the country for a while? if i am away for 2 years working, who gets voted into office will have an effect on my life when i get back.

oscarBravo

You are. You just have to come back here for election day.

Macha

Chakar wrote: »

I'm a student in UCD and all UCD exams are finished on 30th May. I'm finished my exams on the 15th May. As a result I will be able to canvass for a 'Yes' vote with my fellow Fianna Fáil members for a good while.

Wow. Great. Congratulations. It suits you. Fantastic.

What about the many people that it doesn't suit? Typical Fianna Fail attitude: sure I'm grand, what are the rest of you complaining about??

nhughes100

Preach on. Now if only we could vote electronically, oh wait a minute......

IRLConor

nhughes100 wrote: »

Preach on. Now if only we could vote electronically, oh wait a minute......

Not just no, but hell no! I have the skills and experience necessary to audit electronic voting machines (if given sufficient access to them) but most people do not. Do ye all really want to use a voting machine you don't understand? Is it fair to the average punter to require them to trust that someone else has audited the system? The current system is a) good enough and b) auditable by every voter, why would you want to change?

nhughes100

I don't want a change, it was a joke.

IRLConor

nhughes100 wrote: »

I don't want a change, it was a joke.

Oh, OK. Sorry, my mistake.

turgon

Having the election on a weekday could be a double edged knife. Ill personally be knee deep in the Leaving Cert exams at that time, but have the twelfth off.

Very few Leaving Certs will be voting at all, and my opinion is that those who vote will be:

• Moral Obligations: who feel it is their civil duty to vote. Probably mostly YES votes as they would be passive
• Those with strong opinions (such as me). These, like me, will probably vote NO, as no one would really be extremely for the treaty (whereas there are definitely extremists against it)

Plus people might want to punish the BERT for taking money, this treaty is probably a main cause for his resignation. If a NO vote is passed it will basically be lie a bullet to his future in politics.

IRLConor

turgon wrote: »

Those with strong opinions (such as me). These, like me, will probably vote NO, as no one would really be extremely for the treaty (whereas there are definitely extremists against it)

You should vote on the substance of the Treaty, not who is for or against it.

I'm currently leaning towards voting yes for the Treaty. This isn't due to any extreme feelings either way, it's just that having read a large portion of the Treaty it's a broadly positive thing for the EU. So far, the "extremists" (as you call them) who are campaigning for a no vote appear (to me) to be campaigning either on the basis of misunderstanding the Treaty or by deliberately spreading FUD about it to further their own political goals.

turgon wrote: »

Plus people might want to punish the BERT for taking money, this treaty is probably a main cause for his resignation.

I would really hope that no-one would vote against the Lisbon Treaty on the basis that it would "punish" Bertie. Apart from being petty, it won't punish Bertie in the slightest if the No campaign wins.

The main cause for his resignation is the effect the tribunal is having on the reputation and credibility of the government. He's jumping now rather than dragging the government down with him later.

Good luck in your exams.

Scofflaw

IRLConor wrote: »

Those with strong opinions (such as me). These, like me, will probably vote NO, as no one would really be extremely for the treaty (whereas there are definitely extremists against it)

You should vote on the substance of the Treaty, not who is for or against it.

I'm currently leaning towards voting yes for the Treaty. This isn't due to any extreme feelings either way, it's just that having read a large portion of the Treaty it's a broadly positive thing for the EU. So far, the "extremists" (as you call them) who are campaigning for a no vote appear (to me) to be campaigning either on the basis of misunderstanding the Treaty or by deliberately spreading FUD about it to further their own political goals.

To be fair, turgon is not voting because of extremists - he's just pointing out a concrete fact, which is that those on the No side tend to have very strongly held opinions about the EU/the Treaty - whether rightly or wrongly - and that he falls into that description himself.

cordially,
Scofflaw

nhughes100

There's only one referendum on the EU that I'll be voting yes on and thats when we're asked if we want to leave the EU.

oscarBravo

I'd like to see both turgon and nhughes100 engage in the debate and explain why they'd advocate "no" votes, but I'd ask that they do so in the other thread on the subject - this one is about the timing of the referendum.

bonkey

taconnol wrote: »

Wow. Great. Congratulations. It suits you. Fantastic.

What about the many people that it doesn't suit? Typical Fianna Fail attitude: sure I'm grand, what are the rest of you complaining about??

And if it was on a weekend...what about the many people that that wouldn't suit? No matter when a referendum is scheduled, there's going to be some people who it doesn't suit. So, in a very real sense, regardless of what day its scheduled, someone is going to blame those in power for picking that date as "typical attitude".

As pointed out, most leaving-cert students who would have a vote would be living at home.

Uni students, even if they were effected, can register themselves to vote where they are at uni. Indeed, when I was in UL, I remember that they used to put up a stall on campus and recommend to students to do so.

What it seems you're really saying is "it doesn't suit me, therefore its wrong"....which seems to be little different to "it suits me, therefore its right"...which ironically is what you call a typical FF attitude.

sceptre

guinnessdrinker wrote: »

True enough, you could register in another constituency for a referendum. But why not make it easier and give all students studying away from home a postal vote if elections are held on weekdays.

If you're a student studying away from your home address where you are registered to vote you can already go postal - it's one of the listed reasons where someone can apply for a postal vote.