Weights Machines - Help Needed! (as usual!)

Orlee

What's the story with the weights machines at the gym? Are they any use?

I've been using them over the past week or so and I'm pushing myself doing as many reps as I possible can before my arms/thighs beg me to stop but I'm not feeling much the day after so I don't know if it's worth my time?

Thoughts and Advice Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeze

mack1

Machines are better than nothing.
Free weghts are better than machinces!

Machines tend to restrict the movement to one plane where as free weights will make you use various stabilsing muscles etc etc
Also, many machines can allow the stronger leg/arm/whatever to compensate for the weaker one by allwoing it to carry more load.

As for reps, there are many different opinions and bs about the optimum rep range, but generally you should aim to use the heaviest weight you can to perfrom 3 sets of 8-12 repitions while maintaining proper form.

This of course all depends on what you are trying to achieve, what exercies you are performing and other factors such as your diet and the frequency of your training. It is unlikely that your lack of progress is due to machines versus weights, post up some more details, include your current stats, goals, diet and exercise - that will allow people give better advice.

figs86

You're not feeling anything the next day because the pain people usually feel after weights is due to the 'tears' in their muscles (too early to be DOMS)

These tears are a result of heavy resistance, not repeated reps.

If you WANT to feel pain the next day (which psychologically helps people belive they've ''achieved'' something, ''no pain no gain'' which isnt necessarily true) then you need to cut down the reps/sets and increase the resistance

But that depends on what you're training for - muscle mass, strength, speed, sports specific?

Vegeta

what mack1 said

Orlee

mack1 wrote: »

This of course all depends on what you are trying to achieve, what exercies you are performing and other factors such as your diet and the frequency of your training. It is unlikely that your lack of progress is due to machines versus weights, post up some more details, include your current stats, goals, diet and exercise - that will allow people give better advice.

Well I'm trying to loose weight (body fat I assume) and tone up, rather than build up muscle. My typical exercise per week is:

Gym -
Monday, Wednesday and Friday: Treadmill, bike, cross trainer - (about 20 minutes on each) and then the weights machines. I'm doing about 4 kilos on each machine - I do about 5 machines, legs and arms, although I am focusing more on arms - and I try to do 20 reps on each (don't know what the names of these machines are other than the fly???)

Thursday - Walk home from work - Takes about an hour

Gym again either Saturday or Sunday

I'm a complete noob and totally unfit. I have about 4 stone to loose so I'm trying to start off relatively slow (don't want to kill myself!) but I still don't want to be wasting my time doing exercise that isn't doing me any good at all!

Jimmy Bottlehead

Orlee wrote: »

Well I'm trying to loose weight (body fat I assume) and tone up, rather than build up muscle. My typical exercise per week is:

Gym -
Monday, Wednesday and Friday: Treadmill, bike, cross trainer - (about 20 minutes on each) and then the weights machines. I'm doing about 4 kilos on each machine - I do about 5 machines, legs and arms, although I am focusing more on arms - and I try to do 20 reps on each (don't know what the names of these machines are other than the fly???)

Thursday - Walk home from work - Takes about an hour

Gym again either Saturday or Sunday

I'm a complete noob and totally unfit. I have about 4 stone to loose so I'm trying to start off relatively slow (don't want to kill myself!) but I still don't want to be wasting my time doing exercise that isn't doing me any good at all!

You can't 'tone up' without building muscle... no matter how much weight you lose, you'll look 'fat' as there will be no solid muscle there under the skin. Besides, females can't build large muscle like males, unless they are going to EXTREME measures.
Basically, you won't become a huge muscley amazon lady! Just keep working away, and lift heavy, it works the body harder and burns fat while building muscle.

And well done on going about it the right way

rubadub

Orlee wrote: »

Well I'm trying to loose weight (body fat I assume) and tone up, rather than build up muscle.

tone up = build up muscle

As Jimmy said.

I reckon they mainly have fancy machines in gyms to make you think your membership fee is paying for something. Also I reckon women feel better or more "ladylike" on machines, or (same thing) less "ladylike" lifting free weights.

Some people here are in "gyms" without even a squat rack! Yet could have some €20k machine digital readout BS telling how they just burnt 354.232 calories

arybvtcw0eolkf

Machines certainly have their place, I like them for some things.

Due to horrible rotator cuffs over the year's most of my shoulder work is done on machines, so too are my biceps and triceps - but the latter are done because I feel them more on machines than I do with free weights.

I'm also a firm beliver that a muscle (mostly) know's resistance and overload - and not machines -V- free weights, esp. for 'toning'.

Strenght training is different, nothing subsititues free weights in this case.

DOMS - some people just don't get it, but as a novice the OP should feel something. I don't get DOMS, but I lift correctly - cool down properly and eat/rest properly after training. I'm not saying that anyone who gets sore afterwards is doing anything incorrectly, but when I was younger and in a hurry (ie when I neglected the important things) I was in constant muscular pain.

mack1

Agree with Rubadub and Jimmy above.

When you say "tone" what you mean is lose body fat and build muscle. You may not think it, but you really want to build as much muscle as you can - this is what gives shape, and "tone" - as said above, you will not look like a bodybuilder!

If you are doing 20mins on each machine then I think you can spend your time more productivly. Carido is important, and useful, but lifting heavy weights will be much more effective. Lifting will burn more calories and raise your metabolism for hours longer than cardio will, as well as build muscle (remember, muscle = tone, not the incredible hulk!). I would get a weights routine going if I was you, it will give you more visable results.

Orlee

rubadub wrote: »

I reckon they mainly have fancy machines in gyms to make you think your membership fee is paying for something. Also I reckon women feel better or more "ladylike" on machines, or (same thing) less "ladylike" lifting free weights.

I wouldn't mind doing the free weights but it's more so that's it's daunting than anything else! There's a tiny free weights area in the middle of all the treadmills so it feels like everyone is looking at me I've been told there's a better weights room but that it's for "boys only"

It's UCD gym incase anyone is familiar with it!

Will I loose fat by lifting weights?
Should I be lifting heavier with less reps?

God I'm confused

g'em

Orlee wrote: »

I've been told there's a better weights room but that it's for "boys only"

I've been in the UCD Crunch weights room. "Boys" only is quite correct (aka teen-acne-ridden, stick-thin, wouldn't-know-a-compound-lift-if-their-frail-little-bony-arses-depended-on-it pseudo-lifters).

I wouldn't worry about going in there Orlee, not at all. Ignore them and do your thing

Orlee

Ah thanks G'em - Just have to build up a bit of "Gym Confidence!!!"

Still confused - should I be doing more weights than cardio to loose fat?

mack1

Orlee wrote: »

I wouldn't mind doing the free weights but it's more so that's it's daunting than anything else! There's a tiny free weights area in the middle of all the treadmills so it feels like everyone is looking at me I've been told there's a better weights room but that it's for "boys only"

It's UCD gym incase anyone is familiar with it!

Will I loose fat by lifting weights?
Should I be lifting heavier with less reps?

God I'm confused

That is the case of a lot of women, weights areas in a lot of gyms are seen as a boys club - and as g'em said, they're usually skinny lads launching into biceps curls with their backs!
All I can really say is ignore it, get in there and do your thing - first few times will be a daunting but after a while you'll be grand. You probably felt that way about the whole gym the first time you went in - but you soon got comfortable with it. Life's way to short to worry about stuff like that.

To answer your questions:
Will I loose fat by lifting weights? - YES!
Should I be lifting heavier with less reps? - heavier than you are now with your 20-30 reps - yes. As I said above there is a lot of crap talked about rep ranges etc but in general use the heaviest weight you can for 3 sets of 8-12reps while maintaining correct form. (Have a trainer check your form if you are not sure). As you will get stronger you must gradually increase this weight.

Clear as mud?

Jimmy Bottlehead

And if they say it's boys only, kick up a stink about sexual discrimation, etc, they'll give in. Even guys feel intimidated going into the free weights area at first... I know I did. I felt really seft conscious, skinny, and that people were laughing at me but it was in my head. (well I was skinny!) People respect those who work hard and listen to (good) advice and you're no different.

Orlee

Mairt wrote: »

DOMS - some people just don't get it, but as a novice the OP should feel something. I don't get DOMS, but I lift correctly - cool down properly and eat/rest properly after training. I'm not saying that anyone who gets sore afterwards is doing anything incorrectly, but when I was younger and in a hurry (ie when I neglected the important things) I was in constant muscular pain.

Good advice Mairt about cool down/eating properly after training ..... I think I'm negleting that a bit

(and in fairness, with muscles like yours you've obviously learned from experience!)

rubadub

Orlee wrote: »

Will I loose fat by lifting weights?
Should I be lifting heavier with less reps?

Lifting weights really helped me lose fat, but not necessarily "weight". I was 12stone for over a year, losing fat and gaining muscle at the same rate. Bear in mind that muscle only takes up 1/3 the volume as fat. Also the muscle goes on "in the right places". I am actively trying my best to build big muscle, lifting heavy weights, but to look at me you would not guess I lifted at all. i.e. as a woman you would find it even harder to get big, let alone "too big".

Say you lift 3 times a week, 60mins. Now say you burn 400kcal in those sessions. All during the week your body is trying to build new muscle, this means it uses calories!, even when sitting around the next day you are using calories to build muscle. AND you need more calories just to maintain this new muscle. You can sort of compare it to being pregnant, you need more caloires to "build" the new tissue- i.e. the baby. Then just to keep the bump/muscles warm and alive it takes more calories. Also muscle needs more calories to maintain it than fat. So a muscular 15stone man lying in bed needs more calories than a 15stone fat man.

Now you could have just ran 3 times a week for 60mins, burning maybe 500kcal in the hour. BUT on your days off you do not reap all the advantages that lifting will bring, on the calorie side. Also being stronger will help in your daily life, help against osteoporosis and other things too.

As you get older you loose muscle if you are not active, your metabolism drops. If you are starting out at say 30, then you are just building up the muscle you once had in your teens.

Orlee

rubadub wrote: »

Lifting weights really helped me lose fat, but not necessarily "weight".

But I seriously need to loose weight as well - should I keep up the cardio and up my weights as well?

rubadub wrote: »

Say you lift 3 times a week, 60mins.

3 x 60 minute weights sessions?

(sorry for all the questions - I'll cop on eventually!)

PS thanks mack1

mack1

No worries.

I would aim for 3 sessions a week, 45mins of weight and 20mins of cardio.
You could add something at the weekend, a hike or a cycle or something else fun.

EDIT:
I wouldn't worry too much about the details - I would say do more weights than cardio because it is more effective, but if its 40mins weights & 20 mins cardio versus 50mins weights and 15mins cardio it really doesnt matter too much!

Vegeta

Orlee wrote: »

But I seriously need to loose weight as well

What rubadub means by this is the weight on the scales may not go down but your shape will change.

Muscle weighs more than fat so as you put muscle on (gaining weight) and lose fat (losing weight) the figure on the scales may not change as much as you think it should but will look drastically different

That make sense

rubadub

Orlee wrote: »

But I seriously need to loose weight as well - should I keep up the cardio and up my weights as well?

A lot of people equate fat with weight. When most people say I want to lose "weight" they mean really mean lose fat. g'em here is a size 10 or 12 yet is probably deemed obese on BMI charts, since she "weighs" too much, but is not fat.

You lose fat by being on a caloire deficit, basically eating less energy than you expend. My previous post was showing that by lifting heavy weights you stimulate muscle growth which in turn uses a lot of calories, even on days not training. So it is far easier to achieve a calorie deficit.

To lose/gain a single lb of fat it is around 3500kcal, if you eat 3500kcal (~7 big macs) too much you put on 1lb, if you workout 7 days a week for 1 hour you will burn 500kcal in each hour so can expect to lose 1lb of fat (7x500kcal=3500kcal). If you do weights 3 days a week for 1 hour at a time you will burn maybe 3x500kcal in that time. BUT you could be using 250kcal EVERY day building and maintaining new muscle, so in the week you have 3x500=1500, and 7x250=1750, so overall 3250kcal, for only 3 hours work.

These figures are all just estimates, but I hope you get the idea.

Rather than just eating less or working out a lot, most find it easier to do a combination of both.

I found fat fell off me after taking up weight training. I went from almost 15stone to 13stone cycling and eating a little less. Then I sort of stayed at 13stone, I still ate a normal amount and drank a lot. So to stay eating and drinking what I want I needed to increase my daily calorific needs, i.e. boost my metabolism. I went from 13 to 12stone, and stayed there. I am now stable at around 11.5stone, which is probably my ideal wieght and fat levels. But now I can get away with eating and drinking what I want.

I would aim for 3 sessions a week, 45mins of weight and 20mins of cardio.

I would too. I was splitting them, and using hours just for comparison reasons. You need to recover from weights sessions, so you cannot do full body workouts every day. While if you really wanted to workout 7 days a week you could have 3 weights days and 4 cardio days. I cycled 45mins every day, and did weights 3 times a week. In the gym it is advised to do weights before cardio. This means you start out full of energy, you can lift to your best ability and stimulate the most muscle growth. Then do the cardio. You can do a short warm up before the wieghts. I prefer to exercises the body parts I am about to use, so if I am going to do squats, I do body squats, or if I am going to do a bench press I would do pushups. You can just use very low wieghts before lifting heavier ones.

This is a great site, www.exrx.net

Orlee

@ Vegeta

Sure does - Thanks

What comes to mind is that photo they have on the ads for EducoGym - The pound of fat vs the pound of muscle!

Well - I'm in the gym tonight so I think I'll be knocking off the bike (hate it) keeping on the cross trainer and the treadmill cause I enjoy doing them, up my weights and try to venture down to the "boys only" weights area and see what all the fuss is about!

mickoo

Jimmy Bottlehead wrote: »

You can't 'tone up' without building muscle...

WRONG. Tone just means the muscle is not in a relaxed state and not that its built up-Like firm skin, tone! most females who do weights dont increase muscle mass, they just lose fat and get firmer muscles, thats why when dieting its important to do weights-so muscle is not lost as your losing weight.

BobbyOLeary

try to venture down to the "boys only" weights area and see what all the fuss is about!

Believe me, there's no fuss. Unless by fuss you mean lots of guys in abercrombie doing bicep curls.

Anywho, your best bet is to just go down there and check it out. Worst thing that'll happen is that some small boys will look at you, anybody who's anyway serious about their lifting will just respect you and let you get on with it. If you can make it down during the middle of the day, around 11-1 there's a better buzz in the place (less packed and more serious crowd).

aka teen-acne-ridden, stick-thin, wouldn't-know-a-compound-lift-if-their-frail-little-bony-arses-depended-on-it pseudo-lifters

Not true. Most of them know their way around a nice quarter squat.

g'em

BobbyOLeary wrote: »

Not true. Most of them know their way around a nice quarter squat.

Good point, I saw a few fairly impressive 3-inch-ROMS going on. My bad.