Regaining some control

AKQJ10

Over the past year i have lost all respect for money, had so many highs and lows and have continous trouble motivating myself to succeed at anything else but poker. I suppose il just give you a story of how everything went since i left school.
I fell 5pts short of my desired course for college and ended up doing marketing in ITT in Sept 2005. Hated every second of it and just tried to scrape through to 2nd year, during 1st year college was where i first started playin poker, just home games with mates and the very odd trip into the merrion freerolls.
At the very beggining of 2nd year one of my mates "R_J" made the money in the Barcelona EPT. He was repeating one subject for the year and didnt have college for the year, i had lost all interest in my course and proceeded to just go to his gaf instead of college where we started to play online try make some money. Ross had immediate success and started winning tournaments in the Jackpot quite often, i liked the appeal of cash games more and focused on them instead. I dropped out of college under conditions to back the following year to do something i wanted to do instead. Parents wanted me to get a job but i managed to win enough money to keep them off my case.
Was felted numerous times during this but always scraped by having a reasonable touch every now and then. By the time the summer came around between me and ross had a couple hundred between us. All our mates were headin to Canada and we wanted to go but neither of us could afford to. We started to play every night in the jackpot and set ourselves the target of gettiing to Canada for all of August. Over 2 and half months we crushed hold em in the jackpot and would each always put half our winnings away for Canada. Ross won the cash league where we chopped our action and that was it we had enough for Canada.
During the time we were playing though i lost all respect for money and would regularly do my nuts drunk or buy ridiculous things i didnt need. I just figured id win some more money. In Canada id be surprised if i won more than one big pot throughout the month. Needless to say came home broke.
It didnt really phase me all that much but wat has happened since does. Since September i have gone form busto to 3k, busto to 5k, busto to 4k, busto to 9k and busto again. Its not that im playin bad im playing as good as i ever have if that was any good, its due to a complete lack of control for money and when i go out on the piss i spend way too much from being used to it for a while. When i won some money in droghedah i had put the case money into the two events then eneded up get 6k from tourney and winning another 3500 in the cash game straight after. My thoughts after the event..... not enough, should have won it. Didnt care about the money id won and just proceeded to piss it away. I got one good thing this laptop but thats it.
I need to get back some sort of control of money and respect for it and would appreciate any advice on how to regain the respect for money and everyday life. Cheers

BigCityBanker

this should make for an interesting thread.

Theresalwaysone

Amen brother.

Happens to everyone, if u bothered your arse to have a bit of discipline youd be playing very high stakes now and that is no exaggeration. Rated very highly you are.

Get your act together you mess.

Anomaly

Give Eddie Hobbs a ring? I think he is doing another series.

fixer

My cousin is a phd psychologist with a focus on financial issues. You might want to try reading his book: The Financial Wisdom of Ebenezer Scrooge: 5 Principles to Transform Your Relationship with Money

http://www.klontzkahler.com/books_and_courses/scrooge/

hf4z6sqo7vjngi

Good honest post Marc, with a bit of bankroll mgt i have no doubt you could be crushing high stakes cash games in 12 months. By the way you were the biggest obstacle i seen at the final table in Drogheda in particular when you had a decent chip lead.

sickpuppy

Tidy yourself up a bit ya look homeless sometimes.:pac:
Do you do any exercise?
A lot of poker players are walking heart attacks as they hit 30s 40s bellys bursting through clothes myself included.
Dunno if you play any sports Mark if you have no job you must get into some sort of routine and an hour a day in the gym swimming pool etc would do ya the world of good.
The only one who can stop yourself going busto is yourself if your going out on the drink leave all bank cards etc at home bring 150 enough for booze and cab home.
To regain respect for money get a job maybe you have one i dunno?
Anytime i played with you, you seemed alikeable character good luck but if you are again busto and have hit rock bottom there is only one way to go and thats up:pac:

BobSloane

Having no respect for money is supposed to be a good trait in a poker player. Some people(like me) may have too much respect for money which may lead to playing weak at the wrong times. It would be nice if it was something you could switch on and off at and away from the table. I hope you have life money / poker money and that they are not a huge grey area called d'arse pocket!

Taxipete29

I have to say this is one of the most honest posts I have seen since I started reading boards and for that I say fair play.

The only way to gain respect for money is to work for it. When you work and see how difficult it is to earn any sort of a decent amount then you will respect it. If you want to play poker for a living, the best idea would be to get a job now, even for only a few months. Then you will see how hard it is to have to do a normal job, hate it so much you won t ever want to have to do it again and it will give you the kick in the ass you need to excercise some much needed BR management.

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

ArmaniJeanss

The lack of respect for money isn't necessarily related to poker, I think its just a phase that a huge amount of people go through in their early twenties.

I was continually broke between the ages of 21 to maybe 28/29, living from pay cheque to pay cheque, buying the best of clothes, gadgets, maxing credit cards etc.

However having a job really does help, salaries go up, promotions appear, and at a certain age you just can't physically drink 10 pints of beer 4 nights anymore, and you look plain silly on a dance floor. You no longer understand the latest technologies so don't bother with a 45inch plasma bluetooth palmtop and suddenly your outgoings shoot down.

I'd advise you (and a couple of the other excellent young players) to think seriously about getting a career. I'm a bog-standard under-motivated middle-of-the-road programmer and they pay me the guts of €70K. I've a mate who did accountancy at night whilst working as a £IRL 4K-a-year office admin - he cleared €200K last year. Other mates went the civil service route and they get €40K for doing the bones of nothing.

Having a job might seem to impede your poker career, I think it'll enhance it.
You'll have the comfort of a fallback. Suddenly holidays etc won't be a lost earning opportunity, you'll still be getting paid. (Try to find Devores 'The Life Rake' post).

And poker will almost certainly still be around for the next 25 years, so theres no rush to conquer the world. (And if poker were to disappear you'd be a hell of a lot worse off if you don't have another income stream anyway).

max_power

Ah i remember when i had money to see no value in it, the good old days at the start of the summer. It is a tough one, when your walking home with a couple of grand in 50s on your way home from the jackpot, it alll seems so easy. The amount of money i used to spend on ****e and on nights out compared to my friends who were working run of the mill student jobs was at the time a bit of a laugh but looking back on it a bit retarded. At the moment i'm pretty much where u were in relation to college last year, dropped out at xmas and grinding busto stakes for money. I have zero motivation to get a job, even though i know i should as i'd enjoy poker more and probably make more munzos. I do intend to go back to college, but not for a couple of years, and with f all qualifications i'm basically looking at a dead end minimum wage job for the moment which i can't see myself getting. I'm hardly crushing the game atm but im making more than minimum wage lol. About losing the value of money thing and spinnning up to busto and repeat, excercising a bit of BR management won't do any harm, don't get into the 2-5 nl games etc if your not rolled for it, (dunno if you are). I'm not the best person to be giving advice though, bit of a long winded ramble, GL anyway.

Mellor

Anomaly wrote: »

Give Eddie Hobbs a ring? I think he is doing another series.

So you finally get the courage up to make that first post and this is the best you came up with.



nyway, I agree with AJ, respect for money, or lack thereof is a thing that some of us go through when we get a bit.

I too got into poker into college, I had no cash and stuck to the student games. The famous €5 rebuys, I did fairly well, if it was online or a higher limit it was easily be classed as crushing it, ROI was likely 100% plus.
But this was poor poker, the money I won was small (as the buy-in was) so it went rather quickly. Mean while i'm grinding at micro limits online for something to so.
After college I went to america and pretty much came back into a job, I went from no wage getting by, to pullling in a few thousand a month. Respect for money quickly leaves.
So, post america poker consists of cash games, as since dec I have lost all respect for tourneys, I will easily go in, to buy-in, bust out and play cash. The live standard about is quite poor, and I was making money easily, for a long time I only ever lost to bad luck. I had a string of winnings sessions, respect for money is now non existant.

Then, you are walking down camden street pissed and decide to hit the jackpot, break even maybe.
Then you do it when even more drunk. Luckily I was still winning,
But then last week, I stumble into the jackpot after a 21 drink bender (it was a competition, I made it to 21, I won). I drop a few hundred, maybe €500, this is a bad friday night. But I don't care, as it was poker.
I'd be more pissed if I lost a €20 on the bus. That is not good. Its a bit depressing when I think what €500 could buy.

akkenny

marc i know you pretty well and have been playing with you for a few years,you keep improving as a player but you seem to lack in discipline and bankroll management, remember talking to you at the irish open and we were watchin the big game and i asked you if you had 10 k would you jump in and you said of course i would, you have the talent, knowledge, reads on players and great instincts which are all great atributes that make a good poker player. i think you can hold your own in any game against any players and i think you know that too which is why you always want the big game. gettin a job like the other boys said might be a good idea and if you do get this discipline into your poker game i think we can expect big things from you. hope the posts help you degenerate ha.gl

RoadSweeper

Leave the bulk of your money in an an account with no atm card.

Get dicipline and crush higher stakes.

Mr.Plough

TBH I think you need to set yourself some goals you want to achieve pokerwise in the next year or two. The thing I find about playing live is that 2-5 is essentially the highest level you can play in Ireland, and theres not that many games going anyway.

Be busto for a while, try and save up some dough and lodge 2k online. Set yourself a goal of grinding 3-6 by the end of the year or something similar. You'll have more respect for money after being busto for a month.

Play the occasional night of live cash/live event when you're a bit flush and hope to hit a nice touch sometime.

I dunno just think of your online roll as your primary bankroll and any live dough as a spin up roll. I think it's too hard to keep your roll healthy when you dip into it to go on the lash 3 times a week.

As regards a career? What would I know I'm about to finish a 4 year degree in a field I never want to work in ever

Slash/ED

You're young and only losing money you make through poker, it could be worse. You're an exceptional player from when I've played against you, as you get older you'll still be that but will learn to exercise more control, when that happens you'll crush the higher stakes.

Goodluck2me

Why don`t you look to getting back into college again, in the course you wanted and try to give your life some direction. That way you will have certain goals which you need to meet which should help you to respond positively, it would also help you to live a more structured life, I found in Vegas that it got depressing going to be at 6-10am and up in the evenings, and that was only after a month, so I couldn`t imagine a year of it.
As far as a value for money is concerned you really should look at getting a job, and seeing how hard it is to earn €9,000. Thats 27 PS3`s, or 2,000 pints of beer, or thsi car, a buy in to the WSOP and travel expenses, etc etc.
Its easy to say shur` I won it before I`ll win it again, things change in life and what happens if you go 3-6-12 months without a score?
One thing that really maintains my BR skills is the fact that I REALLY REALLY hate losing money, I cant stand it and it p!sses me off to such an extent that I`ll do what I can to never let it happen again, and sometimes that involves leaving yoru pride to one side.
It not good being the worlds greatest carpenter if you can`t afford the tools of your trade.

The Al Lad

sickpuppy wrote: »

Tidy yourself up a bit ya look homeless sometimes.:pac:

Dude... he's a student

Here's an interesting email I got from me ole mate Paul Wasicka,

It's about building and maintaining a bankroll. Maintaing probably being the most important part to you.
I was gonna post the link but after re-reading it there it's actually pretty crap, so here's a little bit



No matter what path you choose, I fully recommend that you never commit more than 10% of your bankroll to an individual event or ring game. To be truly safe, I’d follow Chris Fegusons advice and limit your investment to between 2% and 5%. Remember, the more of your bankroll you risk at any one time, the bigger the blow you can take if you catch a run of bad cards or bad beats.

Remember, building up a bankroll represents more than just the funds you have at your disposal. It’s a constant reminder of the hours of work it took to build and, as such, it’s something that deserves protection. Treat your bankroll properly and it will pay you back many times over.


Gl in the future dude

jbravado

I can empathise with some of your er... issues I suppose as Im sure can a lot of peple who post here.

Theres no miracle advise that will make you snap out of it and transform you all of a sudden into a regular joe who loves the monies-poker has a habit of doing that even to the more levelled amongst us. Its easy to acknowlege it-easy to talk **** about it-laugh about it etc but actually changing the cycle is a different story.

I tried to talk to you about proper bankroll management at one stage but you laughed it off-obviously its laughable coming from me but its something you will have to humour at some stage if you want to play really decent games-which I know you do.

If your going boozing dont bring atm card or three grand that you can spunk-if you really feel compelled to play someone will lend you loots and do that. It will be a million times cheaper.

I really struggle with these issues aswell and if Im honest the reason Im home a couple of months ahead of schedule is because I did all my remaining bananas while blackout drunk. It happens but to be frank at my age it shouldnt-time to grow up. Im sure like everyone you learn the hard way.
You know the amazing things/experiences the monies can be exchanged for-be it summer of banter in Canada-a new red hoody-or a reasonably priced thai brasser maybe try and focus on some material goal the next time you feel compelled to literally give it way.

One thing Im pretty sure of is theres a direct corelation between controlling this no respect the monies attutude and actually making real progress as a poker player. Probably boils down to the two key factors-ego and discipline.

chillimetro

a wise man named brian clough once said of a wild young roy keane after a series of controversies on & off the pitch "what that yuuung man needs is a nice yuuung lady and a family" ... look at keano now .. a more controlled nutter.. the point is u need something away from poker that will have a positive influence on your everyday life while not impeding your poker,this will give u a better perspective.

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

MrPillowTalk

The majority of people who play poker a lot shouldnt unless it is purely recreational, I think you are good enough to beat the game but thats not really the point there are other things that are just as important as ability if you want to make your crust playing poker, they are obvious so I wont go into them.

This is no reflection on your ability but I would honestly advise completely quitting poker and getting your life back on track. If you forge a career and have something concrete behind you and then you find your feet in poker and find you are eaning enough to give playing professionally a shot then go for it, but at least if it doesnt work out you have something to go back to. I worry about a lot of the young student guys I meet these days who are playing poker fulltime, although for the most part decent playersthese guys arent making what I would consider real money. I worry that they will turn around in 5 or so years time when poker isnt working out for them or they havent made any progress, they will have nothing going for them maybe a degree and a huge gap in a cv with no experience going for jobs with people fresh out of college at 25 - 30k a year, or worse they dropped out and have no skills apart from poker knowledge and as a result will be trapped having to play poker as it is their only realistic way of making money. Obviously if your beating the game for significant money and by that I mean figures allong the line of €75k a year then the above may not apply but I cant think of many that are making near that kind of money.

I know this isnt what you want to hear, sure I could tell you to just get better bankroll management and you will be fine, maybe thats the truth but do you really want to gamble with that? At your age you should be keeping your options open as possible, if you go get a good education and some sort of work experience you can allways come back to poker if its for you, or playseriously part time to supplement your income once your financially stable. Its too hard to take anything seriously if your life roll is going in the middle regularly that much I do know.

Ill leave it on this note which is the one I allways bring up when the pro argument comes up, how many poker players do you know that made mor than 50k last year? how many professionals do you know that made more than 50k last year?

I hope you dont take any of this as a dig of some sort its not I rate your play I just think there is far too much fantasy on the poker circuit and everyone tells each other "ahh sure youll be fine" basically because saying anything else might make them examine their own issues.

nicnicnic

from your post it seems drink is an issue, ffs leave your tank at home when going on the lash.

MrPillowTalk

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

By the way, all this talk of careers and life plans in your early twenties isn't necessarily all it's cracked up to be imo. This week I left a job that offered great career prospects and a very respectable salary and financial opportunity for a guy my age. A friend of mine left a graduate position in AIB financial services last year to work out in Citywise in Tallaght (essentially teaching and life coaching underprivileged teenagers for peanuts) after they offered him a long term deal. Another mate of mine got an excellent degree and has spent his time since college football coaching here and there. They're relatively tight financially but very happy with their lives as they are right now.

I've built up a few bob that I'm about to blow over the next year going traveling. Having loads of money and working long hours isn't necessarily the answer.

Are you happy is the question. If you're posting the above here you aren't happy. So it's time to do things different. But sitting in front of a computer 50 - 60 hours a week chasing a career you aren't truly invigorated by doesn't necessarily provide happiness.

So eh, by all means do something that helps you value your tank a bit better and aim to change the things you have been doing. But there is no rush to get stuck in the rut of work yet because that's the "respectable" option or whatever.

Good luck dude anyway.

Although I agree with you that work is definately not everything and for a lot of people money isnt the cruz of the thing, your situation is very different to Marcs in that 1) you have the education and some experience allready dealt with and sits there as a nice safety net, 2) you have a tank together through some nice results that will enable you to live relatively well whilst taking time out.

Good idea doing the whole traveling thing btw wish Id done it.

nicnicnic

MrPillowTalk wrote: »

The majority of people who play poker a lot shouldnt unless it is purely recreational, I think you are good enough to beat the game but thats not really the point there are other things that are just as important as ability if you want to make your crust playing poker, they are obvious so I wont go into them.

This is no reflection on your ability but I would honestly advise completely quitting poker and getting your life back on track. If you forge a career and have something concrete behind you and then you find your feet in poker and find you are eaning enough to give playing professionally a shot then go for it, but at least if it doesnt work out you have something to go back to. I worry about a lot of the young student guys I meet these days who are playing poker fulltime, although for the most part decent playersthese guys arent making what I would consider real money. I worry that they will turn around in 5 or so years time when poker isnt working out for them or they havent made any progress, they will have nothing going for them maybe a degree and a huge gap in a cv with no experience going for jobs with people fresh out of college at 25 - 30k a year, or worse they dropped out and have no skills apart from poker knowledge and as a result will be trapped having to play poker as it is their only realistic way of making money. Obviously if your beating the game for significant money and by that I mean figures allong the line of €75k a year then the above may not apply but I cant think of many that are making near that kind of money.

I know this isnt what you want to hear, sure I could tell you to just get better bankroll management and you will be fine, maybe thats the truth but do you really want to gamble with that? At your age you should be keeping your options open as possible, if you go get a good education and some sort of work experience you can allways come back to poker if its for you, or playseriously part time to supplement your income once your financially stable. Its too hard to take anything seriously if your life roll is going in the middle regularly that much I do know.

Ill leave it on this note which is the one I allways bring up when the pro argument comes up, how many poker players do you know that made mor than 50k last year? how many professionals do you know that made more than 50k last year?

I hope you dont take any of this as a dig of some sort its not I rate your play I just think there is far too much fantasy on the poker circuit and everyone tells each other "ahh sure youll be fine" basically because saying anything else might make them examine their own issues.

I think you may of just depressed every poker player in the country, very good post

AKQJ10

Who is eddie hobbs, thanks for the responses so far.

max_power

MrPillowTalk wrote: »

or worse they dropped out and have no skills apart from poker knowledge and as a result will be trapped having to play poker as it is their only realistic way of making money.

Sounds like me, although I plan on going back. TBH I think giving up poker completely is a ridiculous idea, from what I've gathered Marc's in college atm, everyone in their early 20s isn't looking for a job for life.

The Al Lad

AKQJ10 wrote: »

Who is eddie hobbs, thanks for the responses so far.

Advises people on how to budget their monies

MrPillowTalk

max_power wrote: »

Sounds like me, although I plan on going back. TBH I think giving up poker completely is a ridiculous idea, from what I've gathered Marc's in college atm, everyone in their early 20s isn't looking for a job for life.

Thats not my point obviously he isnt looking for a job for life Im saying that the effect it will have on his attitude more than anything else.

How do you get excited about an entry level job if you are winning and losing pts with a months wages in the middle every night? You will become apathetic and lazy as a result and wheither your looking for a job for life or not thats very dangerous. Poker leads you to keep bad hours , have diminished respect for money and usually a level of intellectual arrogance. If those things wont happen to you fine but if they will and they usually do you will have difficulty adapting to any kind of normal lifestyle be it work, college travelling etc.

The reason I advise quitting altogether is because allthough he will find it very hard at first it will get easier and if I were in his shoes I would find it hard to go back to playing the €50 double chance once a week and limiting your spend in the cash game to €100 if you cant do something right dont do it would be my attitude.

max_power

Good points MRPT.

AKQJ10

Yeah nice points eoin, have alot of time for you

Rb

Out of curiosity, what was it about ITT or the course you did that made you "hate every second of it"?

I was in a course there, did two years but I absolutely loathed the place which had a very negative effect on how I did in the course and I ended up dropping out. Two years later and I'm finally getting my act together and organising a transfer to another course in DIT/UCD.

Requiem4adream

"Life is just a series of peaks and troughs. And you don't know whether you're in a trough until you're climbing out, or on a peak until you're coming down. And that's it you know, you never know what's round the corner. Er, but it's all good, you know. "If you want the rainbow, you've gotta put up with the rain." Do you know which 'philosopher' said that? Dolly Parton! And people say she's just a big pair of tits" - David Brent, Season 2 Finale

Poker is a very hard way of making easy money. The key 2 words in that sentence are "easy" and "money". When everything is going well, there's nothing better. Lots of money, lots of time to spend the money - it's all good! Nonchalant spending of the money is so easy, i've done it many times myself. Walk into Dixons or PC World with a heavy wallet, exit stage left with 50" flat screen and surround sound system, new pc, new laptop, wallet 5 grand lighter!! Get home and it's like "ehh dont you already have a flat screen/pc/laptop?!".

Lack of respect for money stems from 2 issues here Marc, 1 is a slight tendency for poker players to have Gamblers Fallacy and the other is an over-estimation of ones ability.

1. Jane and Bill are talking:

Jane: "I'll be able to buy that car I always wanted soon."
Bill: "Why, did you get a raise?"
Jane: "No. But you know how I've been playing the lottery all these years?"
Bill: "Yes, you buy a ticket for every drawing, without fail."
Jane: "And I've lost every time."
Bill: "So why do you think you will win this time?"
Jane: "Well, after all those losses I'm due for a win."

(http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/gamblers-fallacy.html)

In poker, when you run bad for a month or 2, it's human nature to assume this variance is temporary. The concept of being "due a win"/"due a good run" is an easy falsehood to accept. If you're a good player (and in your case you are very good) then this "due" concept probably holds true - but it's not something one can pinpoint or rely on. So you spend the money in the "knowledge" you're due a win soon, this may or may not be true.

2. A sense of ones ability

I'm not talking about ego here but ego forms part of it. Most people in poker and on this forum have an inflated sense of their own ability and if they were being realistic and honest they would admit to that. Myself included. I'm good at mtt but i'm not rich nor will i get rich from it without landing a big mtt. At best, and im confident ish of this, i will earn similar-to-slightly-more/slightly-less than my peers/friends in careers, but they have advantages over me in so many regards:

Stability
Security
Prospects

Imo looking in the mirror and saying "get a grip, you're good but you're not that good" is no harm. I did it yesterday.

It's hard to discuss these issues without sounding negative re: poker, and bottom line anyone who posts regularly on this forum obviously is a supporter of poker in general, im no exception.

IMO regaining a sense of perspective over money will always be difficult. Most of my friends early in fledgling careers would be shocked at walking into Dixons and handing over 2 grand cash for a tv so flippantly. Or missing a train somewhere after a big win on the cash tables and paying over 200 euro to get a taxi home instead of waiting 2 hours for next one. Just because you can. "because i can" is often enough reasoning.

Lastly, dunno if this is a help to you or not marc, my advice: nothing else really matters in life than your health and happiness. I know personally poker is very time consuming and i havent played as much football as i'd have liked this year but i rejoined a good gym near me and intend to get uber fit. Not sure if you're into any sports but if you were, then get back into them. In terms of happiness, enjoy your life and enjoy your money. You've got your whole life ahead of you and the aptitude to do whatever and become whoever you want with it, so dont panic. Smile

Headspace

You got alot of good responces here I just want to point out 1 thing. I like to play sng's and am quite good at them I was doing very well at the 200 for a while but went broke due to bad BR man like yourself. Anyway go to sharkscope > leaderboards > any game 5/6 seated > 100-300 > total profit (2008), these are the games I used to play. It gives the top 20 players across all sites, players can exclude themselves and some big winners do. Anyway no.1 guy is 40K in profit no.20 guy is only 9K in profit. That is scary when you consider it. Poker is very profitable for only a tiny percentage. Millions are suckered in like me, there is no such thing as easy money I have been struggeling sence Xmas and when I get my roll back together will mind it as I am as lazy as they come

DocO

honest post marc, and replies by eoin.

Eoin, for what its worth - you seem to hit the nail on the head for alot of poker players - is this just through talking to individuals, an educated guess on their lives (lack of respect for money, lack of motivation and the other points you mentioned) or is it something that you saw creeping into your life at some stage, which you had to snuff out??

Trippie

It something iv thought about for a while now marc so I know how you're feeling

carfax

MrPillowTalk wrote: »

Good idea doing the whole traveling thing btw wish Id done it.

There is nothing stopping you or any of us travelling at any time, seriously I don't care if you have a family or whatever I know loads of people that take time to go travelling to far off places with their kids ,leaving their business' behind for a while or whatever.....If you want to do it, or wish you had done it, then do it (carfax = amateur lifecoach today).

My two cents on OP.....Poker is a business (as you know) and you are treating this busiiness no differently than a lot of other business people treat their companies, jobs.....They can take it (their skills and hard work) for granted at times, go out and blow loads of money, exaggerate their long-term profit to themselves and others, loads of other similar things to what you are talking about.

The thing about poker is that it is absolutely no different to anything else in life, you get out of it what you put in. If you approach absolutely anything else in life as you have done poker then you will find yourself in a very similar situation. However, poker is different in that (a) its pretty hard to meet women/ maintain a relationship, if you are playing a lot of poker (esp online of course) and (b) the theory side of things can consume you and the divide between time off and working time can become blurred easily (because you obviously enjoy what you do.

My two cents; hope it helps a little.....now pipe down and get on with things ....

I'm on a year off from playing poker myself and can't wait to come back to the game with a renewed sense of focus next December. If thats what you need to do then I would recommend it, obviously.

ditpoker

i apologise for the whole €5 rebuy game in DIT, i can think of several people who have posted in this thread that have done sick amounts of money in that game. my bad...

everyone else has mentioned bankroll management/discipline etc.

someone mentioned getting fit/doing some exercise could really help. Given that yourself (and some other jackpot regulars) seem to really like the gamble why not combine the two. You should seriously look into running the Dublin marathon in october. the amount of discipline training for a marathon takes is disgusting, and would give some focus and you could definately get a load of prop bets going for it.

also, could you ask the jackpot (or wherever) to ban you from cash games until a certain date, i.e. you can still play tournaments (definate max loss) but they won't let you sit down at a cash game until July 1st or something... though this would cost them about €30k in rake!

The_Chopper

Get a job in McDonalds, Dunnes or something along those lines for a month. Don't play poker and rely only on that income.

I think that may make you appreciate the value of a euro again

Fatboydim

It sounds to me like you are looking for a sense of achievement.

The problem with poker is that unless you win a major or make the final table of the WSOP - there is very little sense of achievement.

It is also - even with the boom - a very small pond in world terms. The majority of people outside poker have no clue who the current world champion is and if you were to reel of some names would probably think that Devilfish was some kind of gangster and Texas Dolly was some kind of country singer.

For example I would rather win an Oscar than the WSOP ME.

Even those who are riding the crest of a wave right now will eventually come crashing to shore.

Getting a perspective can help. Taking a break can help. Go travel without playing poker. Contribute something to the world.

And if the answer for you is poker you will come back to it with renewed vigor and a sense of purpose.

ianmc38

unfortunately im in the exact same boat. i have no regard for money. i never have any idea how much cash i have on me or in my bank account. i dont keep any track of my spending and just buy stuff impulsively when i feel like having it. i could have 500 bucks in a pocket of my jeans and never notice it missing.

An example, recently I lost my entire live bankroll in one night playing table games in Star City here in Sydney. I lost my last 2k on one hand of baccarat, my logic at the time being well id rather finish 2k less in the hole than i would finishing a further 2k down. Pretty fcuked up logic there.... The sick part is that although I was annoyed the next day, I stopped caring pretty soon after.

So if you find a solution, hit me up with a pm!

[nicK]

don't know much about op's position but i think the crux of this issue goes hand in hand with bankroll management.. we should just look at it like another aspect of bankroll management and control it that way..

it's more fun to not care about money, but it's a hell of a lot more profitable to treat our disposable finances in the same regard as our bankrolls.. easier said than done of course..

now, off to siam paragon to blow a few hundred $'s on an overpriced wireless router and new phone..

strewelpeter

The lack of respect for money is a very common in lads of your age who have access to unearned income. Whether poker earnings are unearned income or just easy money, the effect is the same. In an environment where the support structures of home and the expectations of student life allow for a very high standard of living from a quite low income a liberal cash flow is often going to distort ones realisation of the value of money.
Its going to be impossible for me or anyone else to convey to you how valuable money is the context of our own lives, that can only be learned the hard way. One line that some worth is; 'Money isn't everything, but it is everything else'.
Poker can be treated as a recreation or as a business, either way the money is just a tool. You invest, you make a profit or a loss. If you were say a gardener or a cook, either by profession or hobby and you threw out your tools every time you weren't using them...well you aren't going to last very long are you? The only other comment I'd make regarding poker is that you don't appear to be anywhere close to being bankrolled for the games and the style you play. A project to build up a 30K+ bankroll and strict BR management might work in helping yourself take it seriously.
Something almost guaranteed to alter your view on the value of money would be to use a couple of weeks profit to take some time to travel to one of the poorer parts of the world. Don't go alone, go with one of the many organisations that could use some help and make yourself useful to them.

Hear what Lloyd says about people who are doing stuff they want to do and living a more frugal lifestyle. Listen very carefully to what MrPT says about the income that the pros actually make and realise that a lifestyle similar to the one I would expect you are likely to aspire to is going to take a family income of something more like 150 - 250K a year. You don't have to make these decisions yet but you do need to realise that they are coming at you.
Finally whatever else you do, find something you are interested in that you like doing and do it. If that means starting from scratch and becoming a carpenter or doing a a degree in astrophysics or grinding a profit at .50/1 online if it is what really floats your boat then do it. Don't waste time doing shít you hate doing.

El Stuntman

I don't think your problems are all that major tbh and nothing that a lot of people on here haven't successfully overcome for themselves

at least you're taking the first step of being honest with yourself. Maybe sit down and write out a pros/cons list of where you currently are in life and decide on a course of action from there

pros might include:
- No major debts (I'm presuming - car/mortgage etc?)
- Good at poker

cons:
- Still living with parents (I assume). I'd put this is as a 'con'. Move out and start living an independent life. When you have to come up with the rent monies, it'll focus your mind quite nicely!
- no job. Get one. This'll ground you.
- no qualifications. Go back to college ffs
- no BRM skills. Get these. If you can't, give up poker.
- much of a life outside poker? Get one - get a girlfriend (more than 1 if you can handle it :pac:, spend some time with normal people)

if you can play poker properly and focused (i.e. not drunk/tilting/not caring etc) and apply proper BRM skills, I have no doubt you can be a big winner. Once you get to that point, then you could consider going pro and doing it properly i.e. as a reasoned career decision

basically, cop on and start living in the real world. But I think you knew this already...

Good luck

dinjo99

Mellor wrote: »

I drop a few hundred, maybe €500, this is a bad friday night. But I don't care, as it was poker.
I'd be more pissed if I lost a €20 on the bus. .

When I read this first I thought "What a retarded stupid thing to say" and then I suddenly realised that I feel exactly the same. This scares me.

rag2gar

If you ever need to talk about stuff that you are having trouble with Marc always feel free to give me or Ross or any or your mates a call. You have a lot of buddies looking out for you and I'm sure what you are going thru we have all done in some way shape or form in the past.

El Stuntman re: marc getting a girl friend, omg he pawns the art of pulling ridiculously good looking girls, if anything he needs to leave some for the rest of us!

Mr Pillowtalk's advise is very hard hitting in the way he words it. He is however far more qualified than me to discuss poker as a long term prospect so I think you should chat/meet up with him to discuss your strategy to tackle original post as he could well be the man to sort out your predicament.

Goodluck2me

Requiem4adream wrote: »

"Life is just a series of peaks and troughs. And you don't know whether you're in a trough until you're climbing out, or on a peak until you're coming down. And that's it you know, you never know what's round the corner. Er, but it's all good, you know. "If you want the rainbow, you've gotta put up with the rain." Do you know which 'philosopher' said that? Dolly Parton! And people say she's just a big pair of tits" - David Brent, Season 2 Finale

I lol`d, that was a great speech tbf.

but i rejoined a good gym near me and intend to get uber fit. Not sure if you're into any sports but if you were, then get back into them. In terms of happiness, enjoy your life and enjoy your money.

+1 I went back to playign sport this year as I was spending waaay too much time playing poker and feeling unfit which doesnt bode well long term, now Im enjoying it mroe than ever. Id advise you to get involved in a team sport where you can share the highs and lows, it really is a good break from the individuality of poker.

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

By the way, all this talk of careers and life plans in your early twenties isn't necessarily all it's cracked up to be imo. This week I left a job that offered great career prospects and a very respectable salary and financial opportunity for a guy my age. A friend of mine left a graduate position in AIB financial services last year to work out in Citywise in Tallaght (essentially teaching and life coaching underprivileged teenagers for peanuts) after they offered him a long term deal. Another mate of mine... got an excellent degree and has spent his time since college football coaching here and there. They're relatively tight financially but very happy with their lives as they are right now.

thinly Veiled brag imo.

I know a guy who won 400K on the Irish open maybe he should try that, Its one thing to say what others have done, but as MPT has said they had qualifications behind them and somethign to fall back on, which Marc doesnt, and he would be better advised to do those first, than to go head first into something more risky.

lloid wrote:

I've built up a few bob that I'm about to blow over the next year going traveling. Having loads of money and working long hours isn't necessarily the answer.

WTF? this is terrible advice.

Lloid wrote:

So eh, by all means do something that helps you value your tank a bit better and aim to change the things you have been doing. But there is no rush to get stuck in the rut of work yet because that's the "respectable" option or whatever.

Good luck dude anyway.

I dont really agree with what you are saying here, noone is suggesting he start himself into a career as its the "respectable thing to do", it`s more because his life needs balance, and a job will provide him with a base and a routine from which he can help to sort things out in his life. It would also help him to appreciate each euro he makes, and where that "ezee monies" comes from which he is winning.

rag2gar wrote: »

If you ever need to talk about stuff that you are having trouble with Marc always feel free to give me or Ross or any or your mates a call. You have a lot of buddies looking out for you and I'm sure what you are going thru we have all done in some way shape or form in the past.

+1, This is one thing you should always be looking to keep slug.

McLovin wrote:

El Stuntman re: marc getting a girl friend, omg he pawns the art of pulling ridiculously good looking girls, if anything he needs to leave some for the rest of us!

This is just not true. Ban imo.

thechamp87

rag2gar wrote: »

El Stuntman re: marc getting a girl friend, omg he pawns the art of pulling ridiculously good looking girls, if anything he needs to leave some for the rest of us!

LOLLLLL, Gary this is a serious thread - this is not a time to joke!

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

ditpoker

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

It's not terrible advice Joe. Come back to me after you've spent three years behind a desk in the financial / accountancy sector and tell me how much you love the week to week grind. Earning loads of money ain't necessarily going to leave you happy.

dot