How do you make a profit if you refuse customers?

Flukey

:mad: Yesterday I was going to get a 41 bus in Abbey Street. As I got close to it, it just began to pull off. It had to stop almost immediately at the traffic lights which are very close to the stop. I stood outside the door and looked at the driver. "No!" he said firmly. He repeated this several times. I didn't get angry or bang the bus or anything like that, but he still wouldn't let me on. Now, I know we'll get the party line that he wasn't at the stop. He was barely moved from it though and the bus was stopped at a red light. In the time he was stopped he could have easily let me on. It wasn't as if he was driving along half way between stops or something. Even in those situations, some drivers will facilitate you or wait for you at the next stop. Not this guy though. There was no give with him whatsoever. Ryanair wouldn't even have employed him.

jameshayes

I was in italy last year and I was getting the bus one of the mornings (1st experience with an italian bus) - it came every hour which was a bit of a pain in the ass, anyhoo I asked at reception where the nearest stop was and she began to tell me and then she answered the ringing phone! ugh, customs! well 5 mins later(which was 2 mins late for the bus) she told me it was about 100mtrs down the road, walked out and the bus was at the stop, starting running to it in hope and I got a flash of the drivers lights and a wave to say he was waiting.

Rule of meaningless story - PRIVATISATION

Run_to_da_hills

Flukey wrote: »

:mad: Yesterday I was going to get a 41 bus in Abbey Street. As I got close to it, it just began to pull off. It had to stop almost immediately at the traffic lights which are very close to the stop. I stood outside the door and looked at the driver. "No!" he said firmly. He repeated this several times. I didn't get angry or bang the bus or anything like that, but he still wouldn't let me on. Now, I know we'll get the party line that he wasn't at the stop. He was barely moved from it though and the bus was stopped at a red light. In the time he was stopped he could have easily let me on. It wasn't as if he was driving along half way between stops or something. Even in those situations, some drivers will facilitate you or wait for you at the next stop. Not this guy though. There was no give with him whatsoever. Ryanair wouldn't even have employed him.

His ass could be on the line if he was caught admitting passengers on or off at an unauthorised stop. A traffic light is not a bus stop. Questions could be put to the driver and he could loose his job if you or someone else got injured boarding the bus at an unauthorised stop by some muppet creeping through traffic on a motorbike.

If I was a bus driver and some guy started hammering the door to get in at a traffic light I would say tough and on your bike....wait for the next bus.(Knowing CIE, there would be another one directly behind it) .:D

Dub13

jameshayes wrote: »

Rule of meaningless story - PRIVATISATION

Do you really think its that simple...?You just have to look through this forum to see some bad story's about Private bus drivers as well.

mikemac

The driver was only following procedure because if you got injured you'd sue for compo (don't tell me us you wouldn't ) and the driver would get sacked.
Are you willing to pay the drivers wages minus dole if he got sacked? No, so why would he lay his job on the line for someone who didn't show up on time?

Was there space between the bus stop and the bus? Enough space for a kamikaize cycle courier or muppet on a moped (could have been me:D) to come flying up the inside?
Even if there wasn't know now you know how dangerous it is.

It wasn't done to spite you, it was for saftey reasons

shltter

Another its outrageous the rules were not broken for me thread

invincibleirish

Here is where its unfair, in Cork i was getting the last no.14 of the night about 3 years ago with a friend, we got to the bus stop but Bus pulled away as we arrived(where it had been parked 10mins), Bus driver wouldnt let us on at the traffic lights where he was stopped. we ran up to the next stop on Patrick St., he stopped, picked up passengers and left closing his doors as we tried to get on. What a dick (heard a few stories about the Grumpy tache man in a similar vein), 8 Euro cab instead, thank you BE!

corktina

moral of the story.....be on time for the bus....:rolleyes:

Cactus Col

I get the 150 on fleet street. It happens a good bit, the bus will pull off, and stop a few feet from the bus stop. Often people will be refused access to the bus.

The problem for me is that this street can often be quite busy, and several buses (busses?) can be parked along the street at any given time. So when actually picking up passengers the 150 will often start allowing people on nowhere near the bus stop itself. On several occassions recently drivers have opened the door on the far side of the road (it's a one way street).

So when it's conveniant for them, drivers seem to have no problems breaking their rules.

Danno

corktina wrote: »

moral of the story.....be on time for the bus....:rolleyes:

And maybe the busses should be on time for us too!

bazzer

Also, Dublin Bus aren't in business primarily to make a profit (although it doesn't hurt!), they are a semi-state public service provider and as such receive a subsidy from the State.

There are signs on buses saying "In the interest of safety, doors will not be opened between stops". Thanks to all you litigious chancers out there, whereas before a bus driver could have exercised discretion, the rules are now that doors are to be opened ONLY at proper stops.

High time you got used to it.

IanCurtis

It used to drive me crazy too, but rules are rules. Once I understood their point of view, it was fine - I never even approach them now if it's not at the stop (same stop for me as OP).

Plus OP, I've seem some driver's let people on at the lights and inevitably a mob of people start running down from the shelter to the bus stopped at the lights, which is very dangerous.

corktina

Danno wrote: »

And maybe the busses should be on time for us too!

a different matter altogether..(if the bus is late, it couldnt drive off with out the OP assuming he was there on time and waiting for it...) ..but part of the lateness of a service could be due to drivers letting latecomers on/waiting for dawdlers....they have to draw a line somewhere

invincibleirish

I didnt make clear, we were on time, but as it was the last bus he was primed & ready to go, **** the chancers who are at the door.

Tarabuses

invincibleirish wrote: »

Here is where its unfair, in Cork i was getting the last no.14 of the night about 3 years ago with a friend, we got to the bus stop but Bus pulled away as we arrived(where it had been parked 10mins), Bus driver wouldnt let us on at the traffic lights where he was stopped. we ran up to the next stop on Patrick St., he stopped, picked up passengers and left closing his doors as we tried to get on. What a dick (heard a few stories about the Grumpy tache man in a similar vein), 8 Euro cab instead, thank you BE!

This should have been reported to Bus Eireann. If you were at the stop he had no right to close the doors on you.

SoupyNorman

Was standing outside Ulster Bank on Georges Quay, the traffic is always heavy enough coming round onto the quay there and lots of buses especially the bus eireann jobs.

Alls of a sudden a lady flew past with a look of irrational panic on her face, as my gaze followed her I realized she was barreling for a Bus Eireann Bus. I had a little chuckle to myself as I presumed she had no chance of getting on. However, as the traffic was backed up the bus was stationary at the time, to my surprise the driver opened the door which I thought was commendable. I mean if she was that late for the bus she didnt deserve to get on.

Heres the best part...The lady put one foot on the bus but at as one would expect otherwise, she didnt put the other foot on! She looked back and as I was now encapsulated with the goings on my gaze switched back too and saw her elderly mother hauling a bag a solid 100metres away(say back as far as the side entrance to UlsterBank for those who know the area)

So, you can imagine the chaos that ensued, the woman wouldnt let the driver close the door, I could see some passengers throwing words at the driver and the traffic behind the bus was rightfully giving it much TooT TooT.


I prayed the bag would be too large to take on board, so the driver could gesture to put the bag in the hold, laugh, shut the door and speed off but alas they got on with the bag.


I felt like slapping her and I wasnt on the bus!

invincibleirish

Tarabuses wrote: »

This should have been reported to Bus Eireann. If you were at the stop he had no right to close the doors on you.

I figure as we were running to the bus he can argue that we were running outside the stop, however at first stop he looked out door, saw us running saying stop,closed door and pulled off (into a red light and wouldnt open door there either)

meanmachine3

i work on one of the busiest routes in the city and i'll try an break this down best i can.

Flukey wrote: »

Yesterday I was going to get a 41 bus in Abbey Street. As I got close to it, it just began to pull off.

the simple answer is he left on the the time they were supposed to go at.

Flukey wrote: »

It had to stop almost immediately at the traffic lights which are very close to the stop.

thats a s/hill bus and on most of their buses are stickers on the doors stating doors will not be opened between stops.

Flukey wrote: »

I stood outside the door and looked at the driver. "No!" he said firmly. He repeated this several times. I didn't get angry or bang the bus or anything like that, but he still wouldn't let me on. Now, I know we'll get the party line that he wasn't at the stop.

your right he wasn't at the stop. once i pull away from the stop even it's only inches my doors stay closed most of the time. the 41 route is a very busy one and if you open the doors for one person more and more come of out nowhere. so now instead of one you have ten or twenty. in o'connell street at easons the inspectors have to close the doors and send the buses off (route 123) other wise the driver might as well switch off the engine and wait there till they're finished.

Flukey wrote: »

In the time he was stopped he could have easily let me on. It wasn't as if he was driving along half way between stops or something.

as i said above one turns into ten or twenty all wanting to get on at lights.

Flukey wrote: »

Even in those situations, some drivers will facilitate you or wait for you at the next stop. Not this guy though. There was no give with him whatsoever. Ryanair wouldn't even have employed him.

he most certainly would get a job with ryanair. that driver did as he was trained to do.if your not at the stop when the bus leaves who's fault is it, the drivers?


to sum it all up. most of us posting here have jobs that we have to do, if we dont do them we're in trouble. if you deal with cash in a shop and your short who's fault is it. not the customers.who pays the price not the customer.
who could get discipilinary action taken against them. not the customer.
i dont mean to bring this up but since wellington quay alot of changes have been made in dublin bus and these are mostly to do with safety.
a few weeks ago a little miserable tyre brought the northside to a near standstill. my point is outlined below
flukey if he had let you on would to do the same thing tomorrow ,the day after and the day after that. just say he did let you on, you slipped or a motorcyclist hit you then we probably have the following.
ambulance called, that bus with all it's passengers probably cancelled. that whole street blocked up, and so on and so forth.
anyone that does that are a danger to themselves and others as most people that bang/knock on doors are actually on the road.
i've also said this before in other threads and this is also why most drivers wont open their doors.

since 2000 dublin bus have been operating plain clothes monitors on drivers. if a driver lets a passenger on when not at the stop while being monitored they will face discipinarly action so much so they could actually be taken down there and then and sent back for re-training.

i'm certainly not going to take that risk for love or money
it's so typical of this country. we all expect the rules to be broken for us but do we break the rules for anyone else

buckfast4me

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

His ass could be on the line if he was caught admitting passengers on or off at an unauthorised stop. A traffic light is not a bus stop. Questions could be put to the driver and he could loose his job if you or someone else got injured boarding the bus at an unauthorised stop by some muppet creeping through traffic on a motorbike.

If I was a bus driver and some guy started hammering the door to get in at a traffic light I would say tough and on your bike....wait for the next bus.(Knowing CIE, there would be another one directly behind it) .:D

Err wouldn't it be safer to let the people on the bus than leaving them standing in the middle of a road wondering why he's not opening the door? Just a thought..

Victor

Flukey wrote: »

.....

Lets face it, you look like a junkie!!!

dobsdave

buckfast4me wrote: »

Err wouldn't it be safer to let the people on the bus than leaving them standing in the middle of a road wondering why he's not opening the door? Just a thought..

Who was standing in the middle of the road? I missed that bit.

AlekSmart

If the intending passenger is "Standing in the Middle of the Road" and the doors of the bus are closed the entire responsibility for subsequent events rests upon the shoulders of the individual doing the standing.

The moment the Busdriver opens the door or otherwise invites that person on board then the entire scenario changes and that person becomes the responsibility of the Driver and the Bus Company.

As Bravestarr082`s post re the Bus Eireann/Georges Quay incident graphically illustrates,these events can rapidly and unpredictably escalate into a potentially fatal situation from which the Busdriver can NEVER emerge with dignity :rolleyes:

The essential point for me is the lack of design or planning forethought which allows for such potential conflict by positioning major trunk Bus Termini adjacent to busy traffic/pedestrian junctions.

As Minister Dempsey has said,times and situations have changed.

The old style open rear platform bus was discarded as it was deemed to be unsafe to continue allowing the gereral publik to jump on and off at will.
Thus we saw the introduction of the doored bus with controlled access and so was sown the seeds of the OP`s discontent as the reality of being denied access comes home to roost.

With the increasing prevalence of Health and Safety legislation and more particularly the issue of corporate responsibility and negligence the laissez-faire option is fast fading from the scene.

Cactus Col makes a point re the 150 route in Fleet St and witnessing Drivers doing the "Customer Friendly" drill which is well and good and suits the Corporate PR image well BUT as sure as night follows day it is these Drivers,new and old stock,who are featuring in the Accident/Incident report stats.

Dublin Bus,in common with most Public Transport operators is in the process of implimenting a robust internal reporting and recording mechanism for Accident/Incident Stats whereby all such events are recorded and analyzed with the focus on the early identification of patterns of driver behaviour.

This facilitates a number of options which can include corrective or supportive training as deemed necessary.
However,the entire situation can also and does involve the internal disciplinary procedures whereby Drivers can find themselves answering to charges and being disciplined particularly if such transgressions involve a risk of accident/incident.

All of these situations are Internal and occur long after the Runner/Doorbanger/Middle of the Roader is safely tucked up in their (hopefully not Hospital) bed with not a care in their head.

Sadly,these changing times and the continuing prevalence of litigious people unwilling to pass up an opportunity to score a result ensure that the old style "Throw us out dere,Bud" days are rapidly disappearing.....:p

The strains of Van Morrison warbling "There`ll be Days Like that" are coming across my PA system at the moment....now there`s a happy ending !!

Colonel Sanders

I remember one evening in college, went to get on a bus outside trinity (can't remember the number). We were on our way to a party and had a few bottles of beer in a bag. There was about 10 people waiting at the stop. When the bus came myself and my friend were the first of the 10 people to board. The door opened and just as we were stepping off the curb onto the bus the driver barked at us 'no drinking on the bus'. we just replied 'grand, we know that'. He barked back 'No, you're not bringing that drink on the bus' (they were in a bag, we had no intention of drinking on the bus). We told him if he didn't believe us we'd sit right at the front so that he could see we weren't drinking. Driver barked back 'I'm not having youse drinking on my bus', closed the door and drove off leaving not only my friend and I standing at the bus stop but also the others who'd been waiting (one or 2 of whom hurled foul mouthed abuse at us).

I have many, many more stories of this kind but haven't the necessary 2 years in which to write them up here. Thank god I now have a car and never have to look at public transport ever again.

invincibleirish

Colonel Sanders wrote: »

I have many, many more stories of this kind but haven't the necessary 2 years in which to write them up here. Thank god I now have a car and never have to look at public transport ever again.

Snap! my story to a tee, and lots more no doubt, With CIE companies its the attitude, staff are cranky bastards! why are they so miserable when they have a well paid job, i know a bus driver will come on and say not every driver is like that, but you just dont get the same level of complaints elsewhere, look through old threads, ask in public, stories are legion amongst anyone using CIE services on a frequent basis, ye people need serious attitude adjustment in dealing with us the stupid public.

Flukey

The driver was still at the kerb, so there was no danger whatsoever of traffic coming through and hitting me. I knew I'd get the party line, and that is exactly what I got. Some drivers, like workers in all sorts of sectors, use a bit of common sense and will let people on. They will evaluate the situation. It wasn't just that he didn't let me on, but his whole manner. Some drivers won't let you on but do it in a courteous manner. You'll get the sort of "I'm sorry, but I can't let you on. Those are the rules," kind of guys, which is fine. They are polite and while it is annoying that they won't let you on, they are at least pleasant about it. They are doing their job, but doing it in the proper manner, with customer relations in mind. This guy was different though. As I said, even Ryanair wouldn't have him.

shltter

Flukey wrote: »

The driver was still at the kerb, so there was no danger whatsoever of traffic coming through and hitting me. I knew I'd get the party line, and that is exactly what I got. Some drivers, like workers in all sorts of sectors, use a bit of common sense and will let people on. They will evaluate the situation. It wasn't just that he didn't let me on, but his whole manner. Some drivers won't let you on but do it in a courteous manner. You'll get the sort of "I'm sorry, but I can't let you on. Those are the rules," kind of guys, which is fine. They are polite and while it is annoying that they won't let you on, they are at least pleasant about it. They are doing their job, but doing it in the proper manner, with customer relations in mind. This guy was different though. As I said, even Ryanair wouldn't have him.

Cop yourself on you have absolutely nothing to complain about.


You missed the bus once the doors are closed even if the bus has not moved the bus has left the stop end of story

IF someone decides to let you on s/he is doing you a FAVOUR (and remember to say thank you) you have no right to get on or even expect to be allowed to get on.

The guy said NO firmly so what did he abuse you NO did he make rude hand gestures NO he just let you know you were not getting on end of story.


As someone has already pointed out we have all had the poor soul we felt sorry for and opened the door only for them to stand half in half out calling their 15 mates who are in no particular hurry to get to the bus and then walk past without a thank you or kiss my arse. Then you say to yourself next time NO firmly.

HydeRoad

As soon as those doors close, the bus driver ceases to be a Dublin Bus customer ticket agent, and becomes a 'Bus Driver.' That means his concentration shifts from fares and tickets and passengers boarding, to mirrors, signals, the road, the traffic lights, and other traffic. There is soo much to watch and concentrate on, and the slightest miscalculation or misjudgement can end in a serious or God forbid fatal incident.

You are asking the driver, once he has moved the bus out into a position of readiness on the roadway, to shift his concentration away from his mirrors and the road, and back to the doors, the ticket machine, and you. That is the instant where concentration is interrupted, mistakes are made, and accidents happen. It wasn't so bad years ago, when traffic was less dense, and vehicles generally moved slower. It is cut throat now, and concentration must be kept to the maximum.

It is a good and necessary rule.

AlekSmart

Ahh...I see I have misinterpreted Flukeys postings

What I assumed to be a genuine complaint of feeling hard done by and perhaps seeking some explanation has morphed into something completely different a là Monty Python.

Quote Flukey: "I knew I'd get the party line, and that is exactly what I got. "

Forgive me,but the party line can only come from the Company,an entity which to the best of my knowledge do not contribute knowingly to Boards.ie so Flukey`ll have to be satisfied with the opinions of individuals,some of whom are familiar with the scenario as described.

Quote Flukey: "Some drivers won't let you on but do it in a courteous manner. You'll get the sort of "I'm sorry, but I can't let you on. Those are the rules," kind of guys, which is fine. They are polite and while it is annoying that they won't let you on, they are at least pleasant about it.
They are doing their job, but doing it in the proper manner, with customer relations in mind. This guy was different though. As I said, even Ryanair wouldn't have him."

Am I perhaps missing something here or has Flukey moved on to a seperate incident or even to a generalized assumption ?
In the original post Flukey attributes only a single word to the Busdriver,that being the dreaded NO.
Given that the conversation(?) was being conducted through the presumably firmly closed doors with the BusDrivers attention being demanded by several different and necessary post-departure actions and whilst stationary at a Traffic Signal controlled junction,presumably with pedestrian traffic also in proximity,then I am well impressed at Flukeys ability to draw such a well developed and firm personality profile for that Busdriver.

It`s also interesting that Flukey uses the Ryanair analogy to reinforce the personality profile of that Busdriver.

As many are aware Ryanair achieved its present level of corporate success largely by demanding a high level of compliance with it`s own operational methodology.
If one wishes to apply Airline standards to anything then one has to ask why even the Flukey`s of this world will make absolutely certain to be at the Airport,Checked-in and carrying the required size of bile-bottle etc at the time demanded by the Airline.
Possibly the Certainty that if you do not comply with the rules you WILL be left cursing and sweating at the departure gate tends to concentrate the mind..?

Another facet of this debate which I find fascinating and perhaps worthy of further study is the fact that of the 150 Million + Bus Atha Cliath Bus journeys taken each year the vast majority are trouble free.
It`s noticeable how there exists a "Type" of person which,all other things being equal,will tend to have some "Issue" with whatever service it is they are availing of.
This can be seen right across the spectrum of life from Transport to Health,Education,Social Welfare,Shopping and perhaps even just living life itself.

For example,This type of person appears to have no issues with boarding a peak-time bus on a wet miserable day and then begin a process of heavily sighing,rolling their eyes,and mumbling about "having it ready" whilst rooting around deep inside trouser pockets or bags for the Busfare....all the time oblivious to the queue of sodden people standing behind them in the rain WITH their money already ready or passes in their hands...

I have no idea if Flukey may fit that personality trait as I do not profess an ability to profile him/her in the same manner as they are able to profile that hapless Busdriver,but I suppose one may draw inferences..??

Just as in Law there exists a category of person known as a "Vexatious Litigant" so too do they exist in the greater world outside the courts.
However unlike in Law,the wider world does not,as yet have any means of addressing their problems whilst allowing the World to continue spinning on its axis !

Here endeth the Party line :pac: :pac: :pac: :pac: :pac: :pac: :pac: :pac:

KC61

Colonel Sanders wrote: »

I have many, many more stories of this kind but haven't the necessary 2 years in which to write them up here. Thank god I now have a car and never have to look at public transport ever again.

I have to say that as a daily user of buses in Dublin, most days taking at least 3 buses, I have encountered drivers who were surly, and who departed early, but truthfully they are in the extreme minority. The vast majority are fair minded people, some of whom will bend the rules to let you on between stops (which I always thank them at the time and when getting off), who do their job well.

Yes, there are some ill-tempered characters out there who can be gruff, but show me an employer that doesn't have them. As for letting you on between stops, I really do think that you have to view that as a bonus, and not complain when drivers don't do it. If they operate according to the rules they shouldn't do it, regardless of where the bus is on the roadway. A little understanding goes a long way!

I can entirely understand drivers not doing it, as they leave themselves and the company open to potential litigation if something happens to the passenger. How are they to know that you are not a litigious individual, trying to make a quick buck?

serfboard

AlekSmart wrote: »

It`s noticeable how there exists a "Type" of person which,all other things being equal,will tend to have some "Issue" with whatever service it is they are availing of.
This can be seen right across the spectrum of life from Transport to Health,Education,Social Welfare,Shopping and perhaps even just living life itself.

+1. That's because in today's society we are all VIPs (in our own minds).

blackbelt

shltter wrote: »

Cop yourself on you have absolutely nothing to complain about.

You missed the bus once the doors are closed even if the bus has not moved the bus has left the stop end of story
IF someone decides to let you on s/he is doing you a FAVOUR (and remember to say thank you) you have no right to get on or even expect to be allowed to get on.

The guy said NO firmly so what did he abuse you NO did he make rude hand gestures NO he just let you know you were not getting on end of story.


As someone has already pointed out we have all had the poor soul we felt sorry for and opened the door only for them to stand half in half out calling their 15 mates who are in no particular hurry to get to the bus and then walk past without a thank you or kiss my arse. Then you say to yourself next time NO firmly.

I think the whole issue is that Flukey was disappointed at how he was treated.The bus had not pulled away and there was room and time to let him on as he said the bus would have had to stop immediately anyway at the lights.I also don't think there was another 10-15 people chasing after the bus either.

Also,from Flukeys post I understand that the manner or tone in which the bus driver talked to him was condescending.It certainly sounds it anyway.The most sensible thing the bus driver should have done was to quickly open the door to let Flukey on as he had not pulled away from the terminus.I know that stop quite well and there is little or no chanced of being mowed down by an oncoming motorbike due to the traffic lights in place plus the amount of space between bus and kerb.

Seen as how the incident happened on a Sunday,the bus driver could have given Flukey a break.Its not as if there is buses every 10 mins on Sunday.

corktina

hard to tell through a closed door whether "no" is said condesendingly surely.....

Stark

blackbelt wrote: »

Also,from Flukeys post I understand that the manner or tone in which the bus driver talked to him was condescending.It certainly sounds it anyway.The most sensible thing the bus driver should have done was to quickly open the door to let Flukey on as he had not pulled away from the terminus.

Then the lights would go green, and the bus driver would have to be fumbling about with the ticket machine while trying to drive the bus.

invincibleirish

AlekSmart wrote: »

It`s noticeable how there exists a "Type" of person which,all other things being equal,will tend to have some "Issue" with whatever service it is they are availing of.
This can be seen right across the spectrum of life from Transport to Health,Education,Social Welfare,Shopping and perhaps even just living life itself.

:

Bull****. you can dismiss negative public attitudes by addressing those who complain as finicky, but as stated previously it is only irish and specifically CIE group i have encountered who have made me want*
to complain, in my times in London, Birmingham, Edinburgh & Geneva, i have used bus & rail frequently and yes they are not perfect (except Geneva;)) but the staff have in my experience never been as Rude, clueless, abusive, obnoxious etc. as i have experienced in Ireland. as i said CIE HRM departments need to pull the finger out and train their staff to be customer friendly, if they do it already, do it again.


*i have never made an offical complaint to any CIE group, most of my journeys are generally made as a commuter, and guess what? i just want to get home/to work/college, hassle with a late bus/cranky driver is just another reason why people save and get a car. thats what i did.

meanmachine3

you've get me here here flukey. you say this.

Flukey wrote: »

I stood outside the door and looked at the driver. "No!" he said firmly. He repeated this several times.

then this.
[/QUOTE]It wasn't just that he didn't let me on, but his whole manner. Some drivers won't let you on but do it in a courteous manner.[/QUOTE]

because the driver said " no " in a firm voice, your now saying he had an attitude problem.
it's also coming across from posts here that the driver should've let flukey on ,therefore breaking one of the companies many rules including that of health and safety. it seems the more we enforce the rules for your on safety the more the public attack us.

meanmachine3

Colonel Sanders wrote: »

I remember one evening in college, went to get on a bus outside trinity (can't remember the number). We were on our way to a party and had a few bottles of beer in a bag. There was about 10 people waiting at the stop. When the bus came myself and my friend were the first of the 10 people to board. The door opened and just as we were stepping off the curb onto the bus the driver barked at us 'no drinking on the bus'. we just replied 'grand, we know that'. He barked back 'No, you're not bringing that drink on the bus' (they were in a bag, we had no intention of drinking on the bus). We told him if he didn't believe us we'd sit right at the front so that he could see we weren't drinking. Driver barked back 'I'm not having youse drinking on my bus', closed the door and drove off leaving not only my friend and I standing at the bus stop but also the others who'd been waiting (one or 2 of whom hurled foul mouthed abuse at us).

I have many, many more stories of this kind but haven't the necessary 2 years in which to write them up here. Thank god I now have a car and never have to look at public transport ever again.

Colonel Sanders while i sympatise with you wholeheartly the driver was well within his rights to refuse you.again every driver is different. personally it's something i wouldn't do.
here is a link regarding general information on dublin bus.

http://www.dublinbus.ie/your_journey/general_information.asp

shltter

blackbelt wrote: »

I think the whole issue is that Flukey was disappointed at how he was treated.The bus had not pulled away and there was room and time to let him on as he said the bus would have had to stop immediately anyway at the lights.I also don't think there was another 10-15 people chasing after the bus either.

Also,from Flukeys post I understand that the manner or tone in which the bus driver talked to him was condescending.It certainly sounds it anyway.The most sensible thing the bus driver should have done was to quickly open the door to let Flukey on as he had not pulled away from the terminus.I know that stop quite well and there is little or no chanced of being mowed down by an oncoming motorbike due to the traffic lights in place plus the amount of space between bus and kerb.

Seen as how the incident happened on a Sunday,the bus driver could have given Flukey a break.Its not as if there is buses every 10 mins on Sunday.

I think the whole issue is that the OP thinks he has a right to something and he clearly does not.
Instead of thinking the driver is obligated to let someone board after the bus has left the stop he should just be very grateful if it ever does happen and not be whining when it does not.

Secondly all the driver said was NO which in all honestly he probably just mouthed rather than actually saying the words out loud how in the name of good jesus is that condescending.

Thirdly as I have already told you once the door is closed the bus has left end of story you missed it whether it has physically moved or not.

Fourthly the sensible thing to do is to do what you were trained to do and what your employer is paying you to do.

Lastly once the passenger is boarding away the stop it immediately throws the responsibility back on the driver so if the passenger even just slipped or missed his step even though the bus was not moving the first question is why why were you boarding passengers there it opens the door for a claim because the driver was not following the companies health and safety procedures.

There was a case a few years ago in BE AFAIR where a woman sued because she fell boarding the bus the driver was in no way at fault EXCEPT where he allowed the woman board was not a designated stop. It came out in the case that the driver was on that route for years and had picked the woman up at that point for years to save her the walk to the nearest stop as a courtesy.

however the courtesy was thrown back at him when the accident happened the judge ruled it was not a safe place to board and that the responsibility to determine that is the driver not the passenger.

Guy:Incognito

Flukey wrote: »

:mad: Yesterday I was going to get a 41 bus in Abbey Street. As I got close to it, it just began to pull off. It had to stop almost immediately at the traffic lights which are very close to the stop. I stood outside the door and looked at the driver. "No!" he said firmly. He repeated this several times. I didn't get angry or bang the bus or anything like that, but he still wouldn't let me on. Now, I know we'll get the party line that he wasn't at the stop. He was barely moved from it though and the bus was stopped at a red light. In the time he was stopped he could have easily let me on. It wasn't as if he was driving along half way between stops or something. Even in those situations, some drivers will facilitate you or wait for you at the next stop. Not this guy though. There was no give with him whatsoever. Ryanair wouldn't even have employed him.

What did you do to get home in the end?

Flukey

What did you do to get home in the end?

I wasn't going home at the time. I was in the midst of a journey. I completed it with the next bus. I was going to meet a friend and his girlfriend, who subsequently dropped me home.

AlekSmart

Quote Invincibleirish " Bull****. you can dismiss negative public attitudes by addressing those who complain as finicky, but as stated previously it is only irish and specifically CIE group i have encountered who have made me want*
to complain, in my times in London, Birmingham, Edinburgh & Geneva, i have used bus & rail frequently and yes they are not perfect (except Geneva) but the staff have in my experience never been as Rude, clueless, abusive, obnoxious etc. as i have experienced in Ireland. as i said CIE HRM departments need to pull the finger out and train their staff to be customer friendly, if they do it already, do it again.


*i have never made an offical complaint to any CIE group, most of my journeys are generally made as a commuter, and guess what? i just want to get home/to work/college, hassle with a late bus/cranky driver is just another reason why people save and get a car. thats what i did."

Not at all IVIrish I`m not dismissing any negativity,as analyzing those attitudinal patterns can help towards solving the problems which cause the thing in the first place.

I`m merely drawing attention to a grouping which many see as problematic but who in reality can offer a great deal to companies as part of a benchmarking process for service improvement.

For my part I`m always wary of absoluteism in all things as I have found it to be the last thing to be experienced before a fall.

I have little doubt but that the terms,Rude,Clueless,Abusive and Obnoxious can be used to quite accurately describe a number of Public Transport users also,however I would refrain from saying that ALL of them are this way afflicted...but perhaps Invincible is actually correct and everybody working for the CIE group IS all of the aforementioned.

It would certainly tend to suggest that Invincibleirish approaches ALL public transport workers with hackles raised ready to get his/her retaliation in first so perhaps those negative traits are given full advance warning in order to be fully warmed up for Invincibleirish`s arrival ?

To give Invincibleirish his/her due,they did`nt just bleat about their plight,but took action to avoid late buses/cranky drivers and bought a car...a course of action which although leading to Later Buses and Crankier Drivers does at least solve ONE persons percieved problem....so job`s OXO then innit Guv !

aliveandkicking

Question for the OP, if that bus was a Luas tram instead of a bus would you even consider asking the driver to let you on a the traffic light just after pulling away from the stop?

No of course you wouldn't ask to board a Luas at a traffic light because it's an absurd idea. So why then is it any different for a bus?

parsi

Flukey wrote: »

As I said, even Ryanair wouldn't have him.

Ah now. Don't get carried away. We all know that Ryanair close check-in bang on 40 minutes before departure and to hell with whoever arrives.

I'd love to see you try and get a Paris Metro to stop or indeed a Berlin Bus driver...

Many moons ago a poster on this forum posted about how we all want the trains/buses/luas to operate to time but at the same time we want them tohold up for us if we are running for them. I think he referred to the fact that we wanted an impersonal service for others (as in "FFS driver - drive on, we're scheduled to leave now and feck the latecomers) but wanted a personal service for oursleves (ah come on - I'm only 23 seconds late and thats because I was visiting my sick Granny) but ultimately in a modern society those two requirements can't co-exist...

FWIW - I have in my youth waved down buses and benefitted from the laissez-faire attitude. I've also done the dash from one bus to catch the last bus and seen it leave a little bit early..

AlekSmart

There`s a great Joan Armatrading single called "Me,Myself,I that just about sums up this "debate" and corroborates parsi`s post.

Flukey`s original post is essentially a celebration of the singular....concentrating on the iniquity of that single,and highly important (in that persons mind) individual being denied something.

That awful word NO !....which it seems was used several times with such vehemence that it could be detected through the closed bus doors.

I suppose we should really have been forewarned by the title of this thread...."How do YOU make a PROFIT if you refuse customers ? "

It really reverts back to our Catholic past and its deification of the Individual which has left us with a truly stunted social development where no piece of collectively owned or beneficial infrastructure is left standing for too long begore the heathen hordes burn or otherwise destroy it....

Just looking at the last Luas from Tallaght to An Làr tonight and noitced no less than 5 security/customer service staff aboard.....result= Clean Trams with windows which are transparent.

Check out the Bus Atha Cliath Ringsend Garage buses operating on the Tallaght/Whitechurch routes......Only the driver here,confined by Company edict to his security screened cab,instructed to remain there no matter what is going on behind him/her on that Bus.....result= Filthy repulsively smelling vehicles,covered in graffiti,with windows which have become opaque from etching over a sustained period.So much for the much vaunted CCTV system.

The lesson which may not suit the individualists is that Luas which demands and enforces a degree of compliance with its generally beneficial rules is a far more attractive commuting option than Bus Atha Cliath`s "Serving all of the Community-especially those who seek to force their savagery onto everybody else" model.

BTW parsi,thanks for the heads-up,I shall be in Berlin soon and I propose to put your advice to the test !!

Flukey

Two interesting developments since last Sunday.

On Friday night I was going into town. My home is near a bus stop. As I came out the gate I could see the bus, still a long way off, coming towards the stop. I walked towards the stop and as I reached it, I stuck my hand out, but the bus did not stop. I had a white A4 envelope in my hand and it was still bright, so the driver could definitely see me. I wasn't at the actual pole at the stop, but I was close by. There isn't a shelter at it, but the ground around it had been resurfaced last year, and I was within that area.

I was surprised that he did not stop, but didn't mind, as I knew there was another bus due shortly. It takes a different route, but the two routes do merge again in the city. The second bus takes a slightly faster route. Soon enough it came along and I got on. When I got to the stop I was getting off at, the other bus was just coming up. The driver didn't see me as he was overtaking the bus, so I didn't get a chance to wave at him. It would have been like one of those cartoon situations, where a character leaves another character at great speed only to find the character he left already at point much further on.

On Saturday I was also going into town. The bus I was on had passed a stop, gone around a corner and was stopped at lights. A prospective passenger came along to the bus, wanting to get on. The driver opened the door and let the individual in. The one big difference between me and that person was that the individual was a young and very attractive woman. In many such situations that does seem to help. Many drivers seem to forget the rules and regulations then.

Flukey

On Sunday night I was on a bus again. I got up to get off at my stop. We were stopped at traffic lights and the stop was past them. There were two other passengers waiting to get off too. Still at the lights, the driver opened the door and let us off. Some drivers use their common sense and break the rules.

AlekSmart

Hmmmm..hard to argue with such well founded observatios as Flukeys,so I wont labour the point other than to reassert my point that on the balance of probabilities it is the Door Opening Driver who will be the one featuring in the Accident Stats and the Disciplinary procedures.

Since this element of the procedure will occur "off-stage" Flukey will never hear or see of it and therefore to all intents and purposes is not happening on the planet Fluke.
The other item as the danger of ascribing any particular gender bias to Busdrivers and especially using it as a causitive factor for their actions.

Some of my best friends are Gay and Lesbian drivers whom I can assure all and sundry most certainly do NOT operate to the Flukey principle

The other aspect in the debate is how Flukeys ordinary hum-drum commute has assumed a new zest since that original Driver did his/her bit for the observance of the rule book :eek: :eek: :eek:

Flukey

My initial point was more related to his whole manner, not just that he would not let me on. I am a very regular bus user, so I am well used to seeing drivers not letting people on or letting people on in such circumstances. I can also understand times when they do let people on or off, and times when they don't. Sometimes they make the right decision and sometimes they don't. Sometimes they shouldn't let someone on and they do and other times they should let them on and they don't. I see it from both sides. In my initial case I think he was wrong to not let me on, but on some occasions, although disappointed, I would think the driver was right and wouldn't have been expecting to be let on.

We all have rules to abide by in our jobs. We should apply them with common sense though. I've often seen drivers using their own initiative to let passengers on or off away from a stop, without even being asked by the individuals. They don't do it irresponsibly. They'll do the obvious sensible things, like check the mirrors to see if there is something like a bike coming along inside the bus that would prove a danger to a passenger getting off. They might check the traffic to see if they can slow down again and wait, if they had just began to pull off from a stop and see someone coming, even if that person has stopped in the expectancy that they've missed it and are making no effort to get it. If stopped at a light, the driver might observe that as it has only changed to red as the bus got to it, there is lots of time for the amount of passengers to get off before the change. Equally, if it was red for a while before approaching it, the driver might decide to wait until reaching the next stop. Naturally they'll often evaluate the factor of the customer themselves. Someone shouting the odds or banging on a bus or causing a nuisance, will obviously be treated different than someone being calm and collected. The driver will often go out of their way to oblige a customer of one kind over other kinds. That's what the driver did in letting myself and the two other passengers off in my most recently posted experience.

There are times though when, even allowing for rules and regulations, that you do wonder why a passenger was not let on, like when a bus is still at the stop and hasn't moved and the passenger is there calmly waiting. It would be simple for them to open the door again and let them on. It's on those types of occasions that you wonder how a company is going to make a profit when it refuses willing and paying customers for apparently no reason. The bus would still be able to let them on, as they are at the stop, having not moved at all and maybe blocked in from moving off by another bus or oncoming traffic for another moment or two - plenty of time to have let the passenger on, had them pay and be in their seat. What the driver would be doing is opening a door while stopped at a bus stop and letting a passenger on - hardly a blatant unacceptable and dangerous flouting of rules and regulations.

Most drivers use their common sense and evaluate the situations and if there is no danger to the passengers, themselves or the bus, or any inconvenience in letting someone on or off, many will do so. Even if they stick to the letter of the law, the vast majority will do so politely to a customer. All drivers have a responsibility in their job for safety. For each of us, the concern for our own safety is far higher in our minds than in anyone else's. Even if we want to get on or off, usually we will do so with that in mind. So most of us will only try and get on or off a bus when we think there is no danger to us.

On the first occasion of the thread I was calm and asked if that driver would let me on, but he refused, and not in a polite manner. He had barely moved from the stop, and was stopped for a lot longer time than it would have taken for me to get on. In the time he spent refusing me, I'd have been on and in a seat upstairs, and all while the bus would still be in position. Many drivers would have let a passenger on then and many others wouldn't have, but at least done so in a politer manner. It was more the manner of the refusal than the refusal itself that was my initial issue. Apply the rules by all means, but do it with a bit of common sense and with a proper manner.

HydeRoad

You go on and on about the 'manner of the refusal,' yet you haven't really given us a proper detailed description of what it was the driver did that was so abhorrent. Did he get out of the bus and hit you over the head with his handbag, or did he just throw a wad of bus tickets at you?

Your original argument is how can a company make a profit, yet refuse customers. With respect to you, the issue is a LOT wider than that. Everyone here tries to explain to you why the issue is wider. Your response to all this seems to be, 'yes I agree with all that but he STILL should have bent the rules for ME.' I don't see what the profits of Dublin Bus have to do with this issue.

In fairness, you raise an argument about an issue we all took for granted over the years, but your own arguments are flawed and very mixed up. The rules are not aimed at YOU, they are aimed at the lowest common denominator, i.e. the least competent and aware customer the company is liable to encounter. Unfortunately in life, we all, no matter how sharp or clever we may think ourselves to be, have to live our lives to a level dictated by the slowest or least competent among us.

AlekSmart

Have to admit to being a bit interested in how the original Busdriver could have managed to get his/her point across to somebody standing outside a Closed door without resorting to clear and direct communication ?

There appears to be an issue of the Driver "Spending time refusing me"...My reading of this is that the OP was perhaps reluctant to take a single mouthed NO for an answer and therefore the Busdriver resorted to repetition in order to ensure clarity of purpose ?

I also detect from the subsequent posts a sense that Flukey feels well enough versed with a present day Busdrivers duties to have a sense of certainty concerning what is safe and not-safe.

This topic is perhaps not as clear cut as many might feel as the eventual deliberation on the matter will usually occur in a Managers office some time after the event,with the Manager in possession of a dry,factual "Observers" report which contains none of the emotion and angst so well described by Flukey.

There is also quite a selection of individuals who can and do submit such reports or "Observations".
The company has its own internal Inspectorate who monitor and recommend action on a variety of Driver issues.
The Department of Transport under its Memorandum of Understanding with the company may take action on any issue which could be seen as a lowering of safe OPERATING standards.
In addition the Company makes use of independent observers such as the UK`s Vehicle and Operator Services Agency (VOSA) to compile and benchmark its own internal systems.

Safety,in both Passive and Active forms is now the number one priority for Bus operators (Or so the PR goes) so I very much hope that the original driver is praised for having the sense to stick with his/her training in the face of considerable pressure

corktina

i think the case is clear cut....a OPO driver has (at least) two jobs; to deal with issuing tickets to passengers and to drive the bus...it is clearly not safe to be doing the first whilst doing the second...the driver said no quite rightly and is not at fault in any way I can see. Any driver who said Yes would be wrong to do so.

Pity the poor bus driver...that can be a tough job at times.

LiamD

Last night I was visiting a friend in Dartry and started to walk up Highfield road at 11.10pm (the same time a 15 leaves town) as it seems that late at night it takes the bus roughly the same time to reach the stop at the top of Rathgar Road. As I turned the corner at the church I saw the 15 in the distance and started running to the stop. The bus pulled up to the stop, me about 50 feet away clearly running to get it. There's no doubt in my mind that the driver saw me. When I was about 10 feet away he closed the door and drove away. Saved himself all of 2 seconds. :rolleyes:

Just to note I use the buses regularly and I find most of the drivers to be extremely professional and friendly but it's drivers like that guy that give them a bad name.