any poker players out there?

lemur option

Hey guys,
I'm looking, on behalf of gamesoc, to see what interest there is in a poker tournament/ poker nights in the students centre in the next few weeks. We have at least two experienced players/dealers and are looking to see if anyone is interested in either learning the game (most probably texas hold'em though if requested we could play five card or omaha) or if anyone is interested in playing with other similarly experienced players.

Due to college policy we can't run the games/tournaments as gambling events so they would have to be freerolls but since our first attempt at the coffee morning yesterday was such a success I thought I'd advertise it to the college at large.

Please reply if you're interested with your experience level and whether you would be interested in playing weekly or tournament events.

in the case of a tournament we'd look into the college policy and probably arrange a suitable non-cash prize or something for the winner(s).

Theresalwaysone

Blah, no poker player who is arsed wants to play for anything other than cash. It is what the game is ALL about.

Good luck with this, I tried to keep PokerSoc going but Butler was having none of it.

I would be interested in helping with something anyway if needed. I play pretty much daily.

Stepherunie

I know there's a group who play in the student centre every Friday evening I think.

You should ask them too.

elmyra

I'd play and I know how to play.... but freeroll is kinda boring.

stereoroid

Theresalwaysone wrote: »

Blah, no poker player who is arsed wants to play for anything other than cash. It is what the game is ALL about.

And this is why I got turned off from poker in the last few years: the emphasis on making money. You can see this when players go in heavy (or even all-in) before the flop, which is basically saying "I'm out to attack the other players, who cares about the cards?" :rolleyes:

It wasn't always like that. You can always treat a social game as practice for money games. If you're already making money in casinos, good for you, but we are talking about students here, with limited money. I might be interested if it remains social, and the sharks stay out.

Grimebox

Theresalwaysone wrote: »

Blah, no poker player who is arsed wants to play for anything other than cash. It is what the game is ALL about.

That's opinion not fact

stereoroid wrote:

And this is why I got turned off from poker in the last few years: the emphasis on making money. You can see this when players go in heavy (or even all-in) before the flop, which is basically saying "I'm out to attack the other players, who cares about the cards?"

It wasn't always like that. You can always treat a social game as practice for money games. If you're already making money in casinos, good for you, but we are talking about students here, with limited money. I might be interested if it remains social, and the sharks stay out.

Thats like asking good football players not to play a game because theyre way better than you. People play to win!

lemur option

wow there is actually interest.

Yeah I know what you guys mean about the money thing but hey I don't make the rules, phil (gamesoc auditor) keeps drilling into me that playing for money is just not an option. "theresalwaysone" what exactly was butler's reason for stopping the society? was it just the gambling issues? and are there actual rules or is it just discouraged?

while this isn't enough interest for a tournament I may set up a night in the next two weeks for holdem it'd just be a social practice session no money (as I said not my rule) probably with two/ three tables and a few hands at the beginning to determine what standard everyone is at so as to even out the experience at the tables. most probably won't be this week what with vaticon so soon. Prob tuesday 8th or thursday 10th.


PS.
I'd say either myself or Darwin will be take a complete beginners- beginners table to explain the game or whatever so if you want to learn or are hazy about the rules don't worry help will be at hand.

SuperHans

We used to play tournaments for cash weekly in the student centre when I was back in 1st and 2nd year(now 4th year). Has the policy changed? I thought that the whole thing fell apart because no one was arsed to run it.

mac123

must be the only college in the country that doesnt allow poker..for money that is. it is a game that is designed to be played for money!

the evil lime

Well, I'll ask again, but I'm pretty sure I'll get the same answer.

gerry87

There's no legal issue as long as chips themselves aren't worth money, i.e a cash game. A tournament is fine. Pubs have tournaments all the time. Perfectly legal.

Slash/ED

stereoroid wrote: »

And this is why I got turned off from poker in the last few years: the emphasis on making money. You can see this when players go in heavy (or even all-in) before the flop, which is basically saying "I'm out to attack the other players, who cares about the cards?" :rolleyes:

Even aside from money...That's the whole point of the game! Do you not approve of bluffing!? In poker!?

tribulus

While I'd prefer cash games anyway, not being able to play for money would turn poker players off and I'd imagine even some beginners would like the opportunity to win 50E or whatever for a good night out or help with rent etc. I don't want to win a load of book tokens!

So yeah I'd be interested in playing but only for cash prizes and if bluffing and "aggressive" play is allowed, lol.

Slash/ED

Besides anything, money, no matter how small, will have more people trying to win instead of it degenerating into a farce not worth playing. It's not about the money per sé, nobody made a living playing the fiver weekly tournaments of last year, but if it was free in and no prizes nobody would bother putting any thought into their play and the thing would last around twenty minutes.

Theresalwaysone

Its all about money. Fact.

Theresalwaysone

stereoroid wrote: »

And this is why I got turned off from poker in the last few years: the emphasis on making money. You can see this when players go in heavy (or even all-in) before the flop, which is basically saying "I'm out to attack the other players, who cares about the cards?" :rolleyes:

It wasn't always like that. You can always treat a social game as practice for money games. If you're already making money in casinos, good for you, but we are talking about students here, with limited money. I might be interested if it remains social, and the sharks stay out.

Listen Grandfather 5 card stud, , its all about money.

Ah no, I jest, I am a student too and I can see why you'd think the game isnt all about money, but fundamentally, it is.

Theresalwaysone

gerry87 wrote: »

There's no legal issue as long as chips themselves aren't worth money, i.e a cash game. A tournament is fine. Pubs have tournaments all the time. Perfectly legal.

Nope. Not in UCD. Prizes cant be cash. Must be vouchers, tokens or whatever but not cash.

tribulus

Theresalwaysone wrote: »

Nope. Not in UCD. Prizes cant be cash. Must be vouchers, tokens or whatever but not cash.

Why exactly is that? Is it just the Societies Officers ruling or is their a legal issue? And if so why UCD/universities and not pubs etc. as Gerry87 said.

Slash/ED

tribulus wrote: »

Why exactly is that? Is it just the Societies Officers ruling or is their a legal issue? And if so why UCD/universities and not pubs etc. as Gerry87 said.

I wasn't aware you played poker

tribulus

Lol, not recently, I actually intend on finishing college without repeating multiple times... //off topic

So is there no chance of this rule being changed?

Slash/ED

You're an awful ****

the evil lime

As I said, I'll ask, but I doubt it. We shall see.

lemur option

Since this thread seems to be gathering a lot of poker players I told carfax I'd put this up

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055265256

this is a link to a thread about the irish student poker championships this weekend.

This weekend is also vaticon our gaming convention so myself and theevillime are out, but for the rest of you who are interested meet carfax in the student bar opposite the eng block at 7. If I can I'll get someone (probably darwin) to be there with a pack of cards and some chips.

all details for the tournament can be found via the thread above.
sorry about short notice. I only found out about this last night myself.

Dave!

lemur option wrote: »

wow there is actually interest.

Yeah I know what you guys mean about the money thing but hey I don't make the rules, phil (gamesoc auditor) keeps drilling into me that playing for money is just not an option. "theresalwaysone" what exactly was butler's reason for stopping the society? was it just the gambling issues? and are there actual rules or is it just discouraged?

while this isn't enough interest for a tournament I may set up a night in the next two weeks for holdem it'd just be a social practice session no money (as I said not my rule) probably with two/ three tables and a few hands at the beginning to determine what standard everyone is at so as to even out the experience at the tables. most probably won't be this week what with vaticon so soon. Prob tuesday 8th or thursday 10th.


PS.
I'd say either myself or Darwin will be take a complete beginners- beginners table to explain the game or whatever so if you want to learn or are hazy about the rules don't worry help will be at hand.

Sounds good! Aim for Thursday if ya can and I'll probs be able to go! Could probs bring a mate too

FWIW, I agree that people are more inclined to take it seriously if it's for money -- even a small amount. I don't mind either way though, cos I'm a relative n00b and don't like losing my money!!!

Bubs101

I'd be up for playing but it's kind of pointless with no money. Everybody would just be playing too loose as they'd have literally nothing too lose. Does the no money rule apply to friendly games as well as organised ones by societies?

the evil lime

I have no idea I'm afraid.

lemur option

Right myself and phil have agreed to take this to the authority and ask butler himself. We may be shouted out of the office or we may just argue into the night, either way we're gonna find out exactly what the college's policies are, what we're allowed to oranise and what we're not.

and bubs, while I imagine the policy is meant to extend to private friendly on-campus games I doubt there's much they can do in that situation.

stereoroid

Slash/ED wrote: »

Even aside from money...That's the whole point of the game! Do you not approve of bluffing!? In poker!?

Is that what I said? Try again.

There's bluffing, and then there's bulldozing your way in to a hand with a near-total disregard for the cards. Of course it happens sometimes, but if it happens every other hand, you're not fooling anyone - yet that is what I saw last time I played. Killed the game stone dead for me - most of the time I never even saw the flop. The balance shifted too far towards bluffing, and away from - remember them? - the cards. If you think that's "the way it is", fine - if it's that way in Irish casinos, I won't bother with those either. I don't need this.

OK, let me put it another way: what about thinking in terms of a "poker university"? Somewhere students (i.e. financially-challenged) can learn more about the game before hitting the casinos? It takes a lot of hands before you get a feel for the cards, and you can't do that if you get treated like a "cash cow" for the more-experienced players.

That's why social games - even pub games - are for chips, not hard cash on every hand: it lets you stay in control of what you spend, not get badgered in to spending your rent on "one more hand". (No, I was not suggesting freeroll only - just keep cash off the tables & limit rebuys.)

breadmonkey

stereoroid wrote: »

Is that what I said? Try again.

There's bluffing, and then there's bulldozing your way in to a hand with a near-total disregard for the cards. Of course it happens sometimes, but if it happens every other hand, you're not fooling anyone - yet that is what I saw last time I played. Killed the game stone dead for me - most of the time I never even saw the flop. The balance shifted too far towards bluffing, and away from - remember them? - the cards. If you think that's "the way it is", fine - if it's that way in Irish casinos, I won't bother with those either. I don't need this.

OK, let me put it another way: what about thinking in terms of a "poker university"? Somewhere students (i.e. financially-challenged) can learn more about the game before hitting the casinos? It takes a lot of hands before you get a feel for the cards, and you can't do that if you get treated like a "cash cow" for the more-experienced players.

That's why social games - even pub games - are for chips, not hard cash on every hand: it lets you stay in control of what you spend, not get badgered in to spending your rent on "one more hand". (No, I was not suggesting freeroll only - just keep cash off the tables & limit rebuys.)

No offence stereoroid but it's obvious from this post that you don't really know what you're talking about. Playing for no money is totally pointless. If you can't take people "going all in pre flop" or whatever I can assure you that a game not involving money will be even worse. You can play online for free and for tiny stakes with real money if you want to get a feel for the game before playing live.

And you can "control" what you spend (as you should) through good bankroll management. (i.e. don't ever play with more than say 5% of the total amount of money you have to play poker). If this total amount for you is of the order of €50, then you have two choices:

1) Grind out 1c/2c cash games online or play $2 tournaments.
2) Accept that this isn't the game for you.

As theresalwaysone said, "it's all about money".

stereoroid

breadmonkey wrote: »

No offence stereoroid but it's obvious from this post that you don't really know what you're talking about.

Fine - have fun, people. If you think the only difference between online and offline Poker is the amount of money involved, then there's no point discussing this further. If your post - offensive comments and all - represents Poker today, in Ireland, I have better ways to spend my time and money.

tribulus

But the thing is, that's the way poker has always been, everywhere.

Edit: I thought you meant the playing for money part.

Tbh it's quite easy to counter the over the top aggressiveness anyway.

If there was actually a big enough demand for tournaments with non-cash prizes then great for those who want to play that but I honestly can't see that happening.

Also fair play lads for getting the confirmation, best of luck with it.

breadmonkey

Fine - have fun, people.

There's really no need to be so catty, what I'm telling you is the truth.

If you think the only difference between online and offline Poker is the amount of money involved, then there's no point discussing this further.

All I said was that you could play for stakes that suit your budget online. You could try and get a live game going in UCD for similar stakes because afaik there is nothing else on offer. Unfortunately, it is my belief such a game would most likely resemble a game where no money is at stake and as such, would be crap. By "crap" I mean people "bulldozing [their] way in to a hand with a near-total disregard for the cards" {seriously}. It's a simple fact about that game of poker that one needs to be playing for non-insignificant amount of money* (which will of course vary from person to person) in order to be playing the game in a serious manner.

If your post - offensive comments and all - represents Poker today, in Ireland, I have better ways to spend my time and money.

I have reread my post and I really think that if you found it offensive you need thicker skin.

*or playing with a view to generating enough money to play for significant sums at a future point.

Theresalwaysone

Steroid Head, Your kidding yourself if you think poker isnt about money.

The "over the top, bulldozing" is a strategy and like all strategies can be countered. You really don't have a clue about the basics of poker. It is simply, always has, always will be, about money.

Bubs101

stereoroid wrote: »

Is that what I said? Try again.

There's bluffing, and then there's bulldozing your way in to a hand with a near-total disregard for the cards. Of course it happens sometimes, but if it happens every other hand, you're not fooling anyone - yet that is what I saw last time I played. Killed the game stone dead for me - most of the time I never even saw the flop. The balance shifted too far towards bluffing, and away from - remember them? - the cards. If you think that's "the way it is", fine - if it's that way in Irish casinos, I won't bother with those either. I don't need this.

OK, let me put it another way: what about thinking in terms of a "poker university"? Somewhere students (i.e. financially-challenged) can learn more about the game before hitting the casinos? It takes a lot of hands before you get a feel for the cards, and you can't do that if you get treated like a "cash cow" for the more-experienced players.

That's why social games - even pub games - are for chips, not hard cash on every hand: it lets you stay in control of what you spend, not get badgered in to spending your rent on "one more hand". (No, I was not suggesting freeroll only - just keep cash off the tables & limit rebuys.)

stereoroid, the answer for you is quite simple. Don't play NL poker. Limit poker will guarantee you can see some flops and if you wanted to find out more about it I'd suggest that you check out the poker forum but the lads are right, without monetary value on the chips it's a joke. People will lump in with 2 7 and the such

Bubs101

lemur option wrote: »

and bubs, while I imagine the policy is meant to extend to private friendly on-campus games I doubt there's much they can do in that situation.

So whats the problem then?

lemur option

wow. Guys, we're just looking for some friendly games here, no need to start a fight over it.

Stereroid what you're talking about is a valid strategy, it's what works for some people. I'm hoping that you haven't been put off too much and that if we do start weekly games you'll come along to see how you counter such a risky stratey

As for the rest of you, yes I know I know poker is a casino games, it was designed for gambling and will remain as such for many years to come. I also think that playing for nothing is pointless. but the thing is we had a table going at the coffee morning for free last week and we actually had a lot of fun. It probably wouldn't be great every week but to have a game that was just practice lead to a much more interesting game. you were more relaxed and were able to try new styles of play or focus on other players strategies.

just as a matter of interest did anyone sign up for the championships this saturday?

I was at the bar at 7 and couldn't see anyone signing people up. Interestingly enough, we started a poker game ( granted it was for pennys) and no1 raised an eyebrow. It's a step in the right direction!!!

Slash/ED

Stereoid thats like saying "i dont wanna play football against that team. They keep shooting from outside the box. They've no regard for lumping the ball forward aimlessly". What you're talking about is a style of play, it's one of many, part of the fun of the game is trying to counteract it. If people are going all in literally every hand, it's not entirely challenging to do so...

When people say it has to be for money, they don't mean it has to be a cash game (where chips represent real money, which is what you seem to think people are suggesting). Have a tournament structure where you can't lose more than your buy in and the chips don't represent real money if you want, but you kinda need there to be cash invested (even tiny amounts) and be up for winning at the end of the tournament. Nobody would see this as a 'cash cow' - we used to play for a fiver a head last year every week, that was fine. Nobody made a living off it, trust me...

The best way people will learn the game, and trust me on this, is from playing people who are better than them anyway. In a tournament, for a tiny buy in, they can do this at no cost and given the nature of tournament poker, beat the better players a decent amount of the time too. It's a bit of craic, the money doesn't matter all that much, and you can improve your game if thats what you want...And if you did that, you'd probably figure out just why people were raising pre flop even without aces or kings and how to counter-act it...

"you were more relaxed and were able to try new styles of play or focus on other players strategies"

The problem here is you can't realistically see how your strategy and ideas will work against people in a freeroll. You may make a great read pre flop, but get called by king-four anyway...If it's not worth winning, people wont play to win, so really you'll learn nothing about a real poker game. Ever play a play money game online? It's pointless even from a purely learning perspective.

lemur option

Ok, here's the story.

Talking to Richard Butler, who was surprisingly encouraging of the gamesoc poker idea, we have concluded that playing for money isn't completely banned. There are however limitations.
1) no sit and go. (no betting money as in casino play) something I have no intention of doing and never have had any intention of doing. Don't like it, go to a casino.
2)cash pots are strongly discouraged but are ok for smaller pots where buying a prize would be silly, or the knowing the prize pool prior to the tournament would be impossible.
3) If the prize pool is not small, aka more than 100/200 for first prize the prizes should be gift vouchers/ online poker vouchers/ other non-cash money-like alternatives.
4) we can set a cash prize.. say 50-100e, charge 5-10e entry and then any money (aka profit) would be spent on future tournament prizes.

I think you'll agree these are very lenient restrictions and we thank richard for allowing us such terms. one of the things mentioned was a big tournament sometime soon. aka before the end of the semester.
so taking this all in to account;
next thursday 10th there will be a beginners free-roll with the prize being entry to a later tournament with an entrance of not more that 10e.
Also that day (if there's enough interest) there will be a pay-in tournament, 5e entry 1e re-buy for first half an hour. Prize completely dependant on entrance pool.
I'm hoping for two tables of each with myself and darwin as tournament directors. Anyone who's interested please Pm me or comment below to give me a rough idea of figures.

Theresalwaysone

I dont understand.

Butler isnt lenient at all, these are the exact terms he gave any pokersoc and they are bs. They gut is living in the past. Strangely, he doesnt mind poker being played for SVdeP in a charity game. Guys an idiot.

Referring to your points:

1) Do you know what a sit n go is?

2)Blah small is a relative term.

3)No poker players who actually arent retarded and want value for their money dont want vouchers. If the majority rules however, well the market is always right.

4) So you pay into the tournament? Win your 100euro or whatever, but there is 300 in the prize pool and the other 200 goes to buy prizes for the winner of the next tournament in which all likelihood you won't win?

Do you lads actually play poker?

lemur option

hey man these are the terms we were given, and no of course they're not gonna be any better than what pokersoc was given. I said I'd look into college policy and I have. We're now, based on these limitations, trying to provide poker games for those who want to play. If you're not interested fine, don't play. Why do you have to be so negative about this?

look, myself and darwin are players not organisers, so I'm sorry if we're starting small, by holding smaller tournaments we're hoping to build up a group of regular players so if we do decide to grow to bigger tournaments we know that there will be players.

PS I just reread how I wrote the fourth rule. my bad. of course we wouldn't give only a third of the prize to a winner. it'd prob be 100e up front (being pretty much the max cash we're allowed to give) and then more in gift vouchers (unless you can suggest a better non-cash alternative). if there's an odd number left over it will be put into future pools. i.e we're not making a profit from games.

PPS yes I did get my terms mixed up I didn't mean sit and go there it's been a long day. Vaticon planning is starting to take it's toll.

tribulus

I'd have to agree with Theresalwaysone. If you get regular players from that set of rules then fair enough but they're so restrictive.

Point 4 is enough to make me not play it. You might think it will encourage regular players by giving them the chance to win the rest of their money but the nature of tournaments means that winning or even placing high enough to win a prize each week isn't very likely (depending on the numbers and structure but even still). And if I play a tournament I want all of the prizepool going to those who place.

Again I admire your commitment to this but it would be a sinking ship imo.

Theresalwaysone

pee-tee wrote: »

ever heard of playing for ****s and giggles?

Yeah, I have another name for it though, "Wasting time".

Theresalwaysone

lemur option wrote: »

hey man these are the terms we were given, and no of course they're not gonna be any better than what pokersoc was given. I said I'd look into college policy and I have. We're now, based on these limitations, trying to provide poker games for those who want to play. If you're not interested fine, don't play. Why do you have to be so negative about this?

look, myself and darwin are players not organisers, so I'm sorry if we're starting small, by holding smaller tournaments we're hoping to build up a group of regular players so if we do decide to grow to bigger tournaments we know that there will be players.

PS I just reread how I wrote the fourth rule. my bad. of course we wouldn't give only a third of the prize to a winner. it'd prob be 100e up front (being pretty much the max cash we're allowed to give) and then more in gift vouchers (unless you can suggest a better non-cash alternative). if there's an odd number left over it will be put into future pools. i.e we're not making a profit from games.

PPS yes I did get my terms mixed up I didn't mean sit and go there it's been a long day. Vaticon planning is starting to take it's toll.

I'm not being negative. Well Im trying not to be and Im sorry if I came across that way but the fact remains that poker is about money.

I will give you all the help with this that you need. I have no problem with that and I don't want you thinking Im out to see this fail because the one thing id love to see on campus is a return of a bit of poker.

Saying that, The terms are far too restrictive, the games arent worth a ****e. Its not your fault I know and I admire the effort but Butler is an old man who outlaws fun.

breadmonkey

pee-tee wrote: »

<snip>

Lol, bye bye.

Raphael

pee-tee's post removed, personal abuse is against the charter. This is a warning, next offence will be a ban.

pee-tee

Fair enough, I didnt expect it to stay there. Still, was worth it.

:rolleyes:

lemur option

thanks theresalwaysone. you probably think I'm being too positive but the thing is when I was first told that I was to organise this I was told that we weren't even allowed to have gift vouchers as prizes, so you see to be allowed to have prizes up to 100e it's given me a lot more room to play with. Richard even said that if we did require a bit more slack he would listen but he would need to see some regular interest and would have to be persuaded that we weren't gonna create a sudden rise in gambing addiction which would have the counseller's on his back. I don't know how he treated pokersoc last year but he seemed very welcome to the fact that the game was starting back up in the college.

We'll start small and see where it takes us.

Theresalwaysone

Age old argument is poker gambling or not? Butler is an ill informed idiot. But I rant about him enough.

Also, he is a snake in the grass. Be wary. lol.

Zounds

Right, I'll admit from the start that I don't play poker and I'm only reading this thread because of my involvement in GameSoc but I can't understand what the issue is.

You've been told you can play casual games for cash. That if there's a prize that would go over €100 the surplus has to be converted to vouchers (which if you get something like All4One are almost as good as cash) and that the society running it can't make a profit off it which is a given anyway.

What's the problem with this?

(Yes, I've ignored the no sit and go bit because I don't know what it is).

lemur option

Ok, it wasn't no sit and go, as I said before, that was a mix up on my part. I meant no cash games. i.e. you don't have €5 = 500 in chips and then buy as many chips as you want. I'm not interested in playing this type of game.

we'll be playing tournament poker. all entrance money goes into a prize pool. you pay €5 for entrace get a set amount of chips and play until there is only one player left with chips. this player gets the majority if not all the prize pool. 10% of players = number of prizes. cash prizes are less than or equal to €100. I doubt with €5 as the entrance we'll get over €100 in first prize so we'll probably be able to give all the prizes in cash.

So far we have about 5 people confirmed for the €5 tournament next thurs and a few for the beginners tourney. So that's only one table for each. any more interest please PM me.

Brimmy

I'll jump on this but wont be able to play next Thursday as I have plans.

Good to see poker back on campus again as I was always working last year when pokersoc had their games.