Silly Dutchman criticises Islam

RedorDead

How long before this guy is blown up/shot/chopped up by Islam Hardliners?

Ill give him until Saturday week before the baying mobs catch up with him.

Dutch MP posts Islam film on web

Geert Wilders has called Islam's holy book a "fascist" text
Dutch right-wing politician Geert Wilders has posted a controversial film critical of Islam's holy book, the Koran, on the internet.
The opening scenes show a copy of the Koran, followed by footage of the attacks on the US on 11 September 2001.

The 17-minute film was posted on video-sharing website LiveLeak.

Its planned release had sparked angry protests in Muslim countries. Dutch PM Jan Peter Balkenende said the film wrongly equated Islam with violence.

"We believe it serves no purpose other than to offend," he said in a statement.

"But feeling offended must never be used as an excuse for aggression and threats."

The film is called "Fitna", a Koranic term sometimes translated as "strife".

Dutch broadcasters have declined to show the production by 44-year-old Freedom Party (PVV) leader Mr Wilders, who lives under police protection because of earlier death threats.

'Spiteful'

Graphic images from the bomb attacks on London in July 2005 and Madrid in March 2004 are shown.

Pictures of a woman being stoned, scenes from a beheading and images of the Dutch director Theo van Gogh, who was murdered by a radical Islamist in 2004, are also included.

And pictures appearing to show Muslim demonstrators holding up placards saying "God bless Hitler" and "Freedom go to hell" also feature.

The film shows a young girl in a headscarf making derogatory comments about Jewish people.


Mr Wilders was lambasted at an Amsterdam protest this month

It also displays a graph showing how the number of Muslims in the Netherlands and Europe has grown.

The film ends with someone turning pages of a Koran, followed by a tearing sound.

A text that appears on the screen says: "The sound you heard was from a page (being torn from a) phone book.

"It is not up to me, but up to the Muslims themselves to tear the spiteful verses from the Koran."

The film concludes: "Stop Islamisation. Defend our freedom."

Two years ago the publication in Denmark of cartoons depicting the Prophet Muhammad sparked protests across the Muslim world.

But Brahim Bourzik, a spokesman for a Dutch Moroccan group, told Reuters news agency he did not believe Mr Wilders' film would spark fury from Muslims in Holland.

"It is not a film, it is propaganda," he said. "All the elements have been seen before, there is nothing new in it."

The UK-based website which allowed the film to be posted online defended its decision on Thursday.

"LiveLeak.com has a strict stance on remaining unbiased and allowing freedom of speech so far as the law and our rules allow," it said in a statement posted online.

Mr. CooL ICE

Just checked his pulse. He's dead

TPD

Allah Ahkbar!

Voodu Child

Im making an effigy as we speak :mad:

Does anybody have any glue-on sparkles?

JavaBear

Atleast he's standing up for what he believes..

nomorebadtown

watched it.

pretty one sided but interesting nonetheless.

Rb

They don't do themselves any favours by threatening whoever speaks out about the religion. Similar to scientologists.

dsmythy

Fair play to him. Shows up the dark side of Islam. Should help an internal debate among muslims on how to stop the loony element as shown in the piece.

fredzer

Good man Geert , telling it like it is! His country was already taken over by Nazis once....

Jay D

yeah so what.

Muslims would still prefer living in the stone ages, running a moc every time something is said.

If they want to behave like uncivilised cavemen, why the **** should people try reasoning with them?

MrJoeSoap

JavaBear wrote: »

Atleast he's standing up for what he believes..

+1. Let 'em know who's boss!

Rb

Jay D wrote: »

yeah so what.

Muslims would still prefer living in the stone ages, running a moc every time something is said.

If they want to behave like uncivilised cavemen, why the **** should people try reasoning with them?

Lol.

Indeed.

MrJoeSoap

WTF??

The Muslims are opressing me!

cujimmy

Jay D wrote: »

yeah so what.

Muslims would still prefer living in the stone ages, running a moc every time something is said.

If they want to behave like uncivilised cavemen, why the **** should people try reasoning with them?

Uncivilised Cavemen???????

Do you realise what the Islamic world has given us.

Coffee
Chess
The worlds first camera
The crankshaft
Modern surgical instruments
They figured out the world was round 500 years before Galileo
The Prophet Mohammed is credited with the invention of the toothbrush, his protype is still used today by Muslims during Ramadam

And thats just for starters

Rb

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

WTF??

The Muslims are opressing me!

???

Sleepy

Provoke radicals and you'll get a reaction

With each reaction from the radicals on one side, you move more people towards the radical end on the other side. Newton's Third Law seems as applicable to people as physics. Geert Wilders knows that and you can bet that whatever the loony wing of Islam do in "retalliation" for this insult / "act against Allah" :rolleyes: will only draw more people to his cause.

MrJoeSoap

cujimmy wrote: »

Do you realise what the Islamic world has given us.

A headache?

ojewriej

cujimmy wrote: »

Uncivilised Cavemen???????

Do you realise what the Islamic world has given us.

Coffee
Chess
The worlds first camera
The crankshaft
Modern surgical instruments
They figured out the world was round 500 years before Galileo
The Prophet Mohammed is credited with the invention of the toothbrush, his protype is still used today by Muslims during Ramadam

And thats just for starters

Yeah, but what did the do for us lately?

FunkyChicken

The video is a loada pish. Looks like it was made by a 12 year old. The guys a racist (that the word?) albino sap.

Rb

Sleepy wrote: »

Provoke radicals and you'll get a reaction

With each reaction from the radicals on one side, you move more people towards the radical end on the other side. Newton's Third Law seems as applicable to people as physics. Geert Wilders knows that and you can bet that whatever the loony wing of Islam do in "retalliation" for this insult / "act against Allah" :rolleyes: will only draw more people to his cause.

So you're saying that he's potentially willing to risk his own life to get people to dislike Islam?


That's dedication.

Kiith

I really dont see the big deal. Its someones opinion, which i dont particularly agree with, but he should be allowed to say what he wants without having to worry about a group of murdering scumbags coming to 'enact the will of god' or whatever bull**** religious excuse these murders use to justify their killings.

The Mighty Ken

Kiith wrote: »

I really dont see the big deal. Its someones opinion, which i dont particularly agree with, but he should be allowed to say what he wants without having to worry about a group of murdering scumbags coming to 'enact the will of god' or whatever bull**** religious excuse these murders use to justify their killings.

I think that's precisely the point.

He says "Muslims are violent murdering scum"
They say "OMGWTF ALLAH AKBAR! I'm going to cut your head off with a hunting knife LOL"

QED.

cujimmy

ojewriej wrote: »

Yeah, but what did the do for us lately?

How about 11 Nobel Prizes between 1955 and 2005

MrJoeSoap

cujimmy wrote: »

How about 11 Nobel Prizes between 1955 and 2005

Meh, I won four. Anyone can win those.

finlma

Anyone that speaks out against any form of religion is doing a good thing. People have been deluded for long enough.

griffdaddy

rb_ie wrote: »

So you're saying that he's potentially willing to risk his own life to get people to dislike Islam?


That's dedication.

sleepy's right. he's doing this entirely to get a reaction, he knows what will potentially happen and he probably hopes that everything nasty except death itself happens to him in order to prove his point. The Netherlands is a ticking racial timebomb, there's been 5 or 6 politically-orientated assassinations in the history of the country. 2 of those have been in the last decade and were of people who spoke against Islam in this way, probably even in a less harsh manner than this guy does.
However, lots of people agreed with Pim Fortuyn and Theo Van Gogh, the last two guys to get killed for speaking against Islam. They liked Fortuyn because he was the first dude to say Holland had a problem with Islam, and also because he had some great tactics for goading Islam bigots. In one instance, he acted as homosexual as possible during a debate with an Islamic leader til the latter started ranting at him about being gay. Theo van Gogh, great nephew of Vincent van Gogh, was an artist and film director who could be a little bit loud-mouthed but still made films of some integrity and they were pretty effective at turning people against the more horrific sides of Islam.
This Wilders guy on the other hand, has zero white public support. The jacks in college have drawings of him with nazi signs on his head, the chat shows make fun of him every night. There's a general feeling of 'you really should know better mate.' For someone who's such an expert about the negative parts of Islam, he really should know that martyrdom doesn't achieve anything, especially when no group at all likes you.

Rb

It's just odd to hear that people take such an attitude towards it tbh.

In this day and age, people should be free to express their opinions, whether it's negative or positive, about any religion without fear of a vicious retribution from the group in question. To take the attitude of "you should know better", as in, you should be aware of the consequences of making such statements given how violent these people have proven themselves to be is in a way giving the fundamentalists exactly what they want, fear/power.

ojewriej

rb_ie wrote: »

It's just odd to hear that people take such an attitude towards it tbh.

In this day and age, people should be free to express their opinions, whether it's negative or positive, about any religion without fear of a vicious retribution from the group in question. To take the attitude of "you should know better", as in, you should be aware of the consequences of making such statements given how violent these people have proven themselves to be is in a way giving the fundamentalists exactly what they want, fear/power.

Exactly. It shows that terrorism is a way to go, because it's working.

griffdaddy

it's not really as straight forward as that over here though because a very sizeable part of the population is muslim so their views have to be considered as important too. (obviously not their violent ones, once they become violent they lose the right to anything) This is the most free country in the world, and he's still of course gonna be allowed say what he wants, the police will continually protect him if it gets him in trouble, the Dutch government even paid for protection in america for a woman who was speaking out against Islam here and there.
It's very difficult to explain to someone who doesn't live here, but this is kinda seen as a stupid time to say a stupid thing, and even though he still has the right to say it, he's leaving himself open for some huge criticism, and maybe an ol' killing. The best analogy i can think of: me and you are Holland and Islam respectively. We're having a problem cause we know we have some really really conflicting opinions about shít and we still have to live in the same flat and we've also come to blows about it in the past, but we're kinda getting used to it and looking for ways that we can get along better, then suddenly, the third flatmate comes home, drunk as a loon, and starts shouting that you have to go, that i was here first, etc. This both isolates you, and unintentionally allies him with me. Dutch people, even some right wing people, don't wanna be allied with this guy, that's why this time it looks like he's being overly criticised for what he's saying.

_blank_

cujimmy wrote: »

Uncivilised Cavemen???????

Do you realise what the Islamic world has given us.

Coffee
Chess
The worlds first camera
The crankshaft
Modern surgical instruments
They figured out the world was round 500 years before Galileo
The Prophet Mohammed is credited with the invention of the toothbrush, his protype is still used today by Muslims during Ramadam

And thats just for starters

OK, OK, but apart from coffee, chess, cameras, crankshafts, surgical instruments, figuring out the world is round and the toothbrush what have the Muslims ever done for us?

WindSock

DesF wrote: »

OK, OK, but apart from coffee, chess, cameras, crankshafts, surgical instruments, figuring out the world is round and the toothbrush what have the Muslims ever done for us?

Hours of endless entertainment from the comfort of our living rooms.

Dyr

cujimmy wrote: »

Uncivilised Cavemen???????

Do you realise what the Islamic world has given us.

Coffee
Chess
The worlds first camera
The crankshaft
Modern surgical instruments
They figured out the world was round 500 years before Galileo
The Prophet Mohammed is credited with the invention of the toothbrush, his protype is still used today by Muslims during Ramadam

And thats just for starters

Thats a bit like saying that christianity gave us the laws of gravity.

Religious mentalists FTL TBH, nazis sucked the first time around

WindSock

Where can one find this filum?

Edit: Youtube, of course.

biko

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=7d9_1206624103

Another discussion here http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=55509352

Dave!

It's pretty nasty and NSFW

Executive Steve

dsmythy wrote: »

Fair play to him. Shows up the dark side of Islam. Should help an internal debate among muslims on how to stop the loony element as shown in the piece.

Not fair play to him at all imo.

There's ways and means of stimulating debate and providing critical rational viewpoints on a variety of topics - yes, including militant islam - in a sensitive way.

Geert Wilders is a slimey, attention seeking narcissistic self publicist and i can see no good come from this either within the context of Dutch society or European / Islamic relations in what is, lets face it, a rather fractious time for both.

As far as I'm concerned he has every right to make his opinions heard, i just do not think his opinions are being rexpressed in a way that is necesarily beneficial. He is playing a very dangerous game.

Executive Steve

griffdaddy wrote: »

The best analogy i can think of: me and you are Holland and Islam respectively. We're having a problem cause we know we have some really really conflicting opinions about shít and we still have to live in the same flat and we've also come to blows about it in the past, but we're kinda getting used to it and looking for ways that we can get along better, then suddenly, the third flatmate comes home, drunk as a loon, and starts shouting that you have to go, that i was here first, etc. This both isolates you, and unintentionally allies him with me. Dutch people, even some right wing people, don't wanna be allied with this guy, that's why this time it looks like he's being overly criticised for what he's saying.

Excellent analogy in an excellent post. Says it all really.

Executive Steve

griffdaddy wrote: »

However, lots of people agreed with Pim Fortuyn and Theo Van Gogh, the last two guys to get killed for speaking against Islam. They liked Fortuyn because .

HANG ON A SECOND


Pim Fortuyn was assassinated by a schizophrenic DUTCH ANIMAL RIGHTS activist.


NOTHING to do with his views on Islam

AT ALL!

Granted i doubt there were too many tears shed in Mosques around South Rotterdam - but i think to tar Pim Fortuyn with the brush of merely being a far-right politician is to miss out on some of the complexity of the man... He had a black deputy leader for instance...

He certainly took great pains to distance himself from superficially similar party leaders in neighbouring countries, and his anti immigration views were mainly predicated on the fact that holland is offically the world's most densely populated country; there wasn't as much of a racial dimension to his politics as there would be with the Le Pen's of this world, although his anti Islamic feelings did play a large part in his politics.

Upon his assassination i must admit, i was scared to death that it might have been a lunatic muslim, that would have really been a disaster, but it turned out to be a mentally ill animal rights activist with a grudge

Interestingly, the political party which was formed in Pims' "Memory" completely collapsed after winning record numbers of seats after a sympathy vote in the subsequent elections; since trading off the personal charisma of a dead politician is no way to run a political party full of disparate right wing populist oppurtunists (like Wilders) they pretty much immediately collapsed into a bunch of squabbling splinter groups who each have to shout louder and louder for what is, in effect, a very much dwindling right wing electorate - THAT is the context in which Wilders has made this film.

Dyr

[cm]tyranny wrote: »

He is playing a very dangerous game.

Why is that? because your flat mate might kill him?


:pac:<and who owned de bleedin flat in de first place?

Rb

cujimmy wrote: »

Uncivilised Cavemen???????

Do you realise what the Islamic world has given us.

Coffee
Chess
The worlds first camera
The crankshaft
Modern surgical instruments
They figured out the world was round 500 years before Galileo
The Prophet Mohammed is credited with the invention of the toothbrush, his protype is still used today by Muslims during Ramadam

And thats just for starters

Without going too deep into this, a lot of Muslim countries are quite...primative. Then again, they're also quite poor (or at least there is a very much fcked up distribution of wealth there) and Islam is all they really have in life.

griffdaddy

[cm]tyranny wrote: »

HANG ON A SECOND


Pim Fortuyn was assassinated by a schizophrenic DUTCH ANIMAL RIGHTS activist.


NOTHING to do with his views on Islam

AT ALL!

Granted i doubt there were too many tears shed in Mosques around South Rotterdam - but i think to tar Pim Fortuyn with the brush of merely being a far-right politician is to miss out on some of the complexity of the man... He had a black deputy leader for instance...

He certainly took great pains to distance himself from superficially similar party leaders in neighbouring countries, and his anti immigration views were mainly predicated on the fact that holland is offically the world's most densely populated country; there wasn't as much of a racial dimension to his politics as there would be with the Le Pen's of this world, although his anti Islamic feelings did play a large part in his politics.

Upon his assassination i must admit, i was scared to death that it might have been a lunatic muslim, that would have really been a disaster, but it turned out to be a mentally ill animal rights activist with a grudge

Interestingly, the political party which was formed in Pims' "Memory" completely collapsed after winning record numbers of seats after a sympathy vote in the subsequent elections; since trading off the personal charisma of a dead politician is no way to run a political party full of disparate right wing populist oppurtunists (like Wilders) they pretty much immediately collapsed into a bunch of squabbling splinter groups who each have to shout louder and louder for what is, in effect, a very much dwindling right wing electorate - THAT is the context in which Wilders has made this film.

yeah sorry, i was gonna go into how it was an animal right's activist, my post was kinda biased sounding by leaving that fact out. i just meant to use him as an example of someone who, among other things, criticised Islam in a less extremist but equally effective way. do you live in holland by the way? are you goin to chronicsoundz tonight?
This thread has everything, islam debate and jungle discussion

ferdi

Have you seen Geert Wilders?!

Look at the picture on his wiki page: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/4/4c/Geert_Wilders.jpg/394px-Geert_Wilders.jpg

LOL!

_blank_

ferdi wrote: »

Have you seen Geert Wilders?!

Look at the picture on his wiki page: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/4/4c/Geert_Wilders.jpg/394px-Geert_Wilders.jpg

LOL!

lol

:D

State of him.

Wibbs

cujimmy wrote: »

Do you realise what the Islamic world has given us.

Coffee

Yep pretty much

Chess

Most scholars consider it an Indian game, later taken up in Persia and then to the Muslim world who refined it.

The worlds first camera

That would be the world's first camera obscura and that is credited to the chinese nearly 1000 years before.

The crankshaft

No idea. Could be though.

Modern surgical instruments

Well the Egyptians were knocking out surgical instruments, some of which are still recognisable way before. Same for the Greeks. It was Islamic access to Greek texts and funny enough less religious loopiness compared to christian lands that drove and refined their impressive medical knowledge.

They figured out the world was round 500 years before Galileo

The Egyptians(and one bloke tried to measure and even weigh the earth), the Chinese, the Indians and a fair few others came up with that long before the Muslim world. Indeed the Koran suggests a flat earth laid out like a carpet with mountains as tent pegs.

The Prophet Mohammed is credited with the invention of the toothbrush, his protype is still used today by Muslims during Ramadam

Toothbrushes or more correctly toothsticks have been around for thousands of years. The Bushmen of the Kalahari and the Australian Aborigines still use them today among others.

riffdaddy wrote:

The best analogy i can think of: me and you are Holland and Islam respectively. We're having a problem cause we know we have some really really conflicting opinions about shít and we still have to live in the same flat and we've also come to blows about it in the past, but we're kinda getting used to it and looking for ways that we can get along better, then suddenly, the third flatmate comes home, drunk as a loon, and starts shouting that you have to go, that i was here first, etc. This both isolates you, and unintentionally allies him with me.

I agree with [cm]tyranny. Very good analogy

Wook

Thought it was very entertaining , i specifically liked the car chase with the giant transsexual velociraptor.

Zascar

I just watched the video now. Yes, it is quite one sided etc, but he's not "making anything up" - he is just quoting some lines in the Koran and some pretty scary quotes from Islamic speakers. He is exercising his right to freedom of speech, and making sure that people in the western would realise exactly the message that some Islamic leaders are preaching. Personally I want to know if some other religion is set on world domination!

You should also watch the Channel 4 Documentary called "Undercover Mosque" - http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2668560761490749816

For some properly offensive views, check out Pat Condell:
The Trouble with Islam
A word to Islamofascists
More Demands from Islam
Islam in Europe

EamonnKeane

cujimmy wrote: »

Uncivilised Cavemen???????

Do you realise what the Islamic world has given us.

Coffee
Chess
The worlds first camera
The crankshaft
Modern surgical instruments
They figured out the world was round 500 years before Galileo
The Prophet Mohammed is credited with the invention of the toothbrush, his protype is still used today by Muslims during Ramadam

And thats just for starters

Coffee was discovered by Kaldi, an Ethiopian goatherd - it is not known what religion he was.

The precursors of chess predate Islam. Modern chess was developed in southern Europe.

Mozi (Chinese) built the first pinhole camera; yes, Ibn al-Haitham built the camera obscura but the first proper camera was by Niepce (French).

The Ancient Greeks, as well as many others, knew that the world was a sphere. Galileo proposed that the Earth orbited the Sun.

Dyr

ferdi wrote: »

Have you seen Geert Wilders?!

Look at the picture on his wiki page: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/4/4c/Geert_Wilders.jpg/394px-Geert_Wilders.jpg

LOL!

I'll see your michael flately and raise you one swiss tony


http://www.powdermonster.net/amusing/txt/swiss_tony.jpg

griffdaddy

hmm, everything disappeared?

Affable

JavaBear wrote: »

Atleast he's standing up for what he believes..

Brave man. He probably is ****ed though. Muslims are a pain.

Lirange

rb_ie wrote: »

So you're saying that he's potentially willing to risk his own life to get people to dislike Islam?

That's dedication.

But his name is still Geert.

Poor man.