dirty diesel in kerry

maims3875

:mad: I have had some serious problems with my 2007 4x4, mainly the vehicle is losing power. I brought it to the main dealers and it turns out I got a tank of seriously contaminated diesel. I only purchase my fuel from one or two garages, so that narrows the supplier down. this may lead to some serious damage to the injectors and will cost a fortune to remedy, I'll know more when the garaged have finished. Has anyone else had problems with dirty diesel recently?

cabrwab

Recently no.
about 4years ago i was using a garage in monesterevin co.kildare it had the cheapest diesel, i was passing through it most days. clogged up the tank with dirt.
It cost €400 to right it.

alexmcred

Have a mate with an 07 pathfinder. Same thing happened cost over 6k to fix

cabrwab

Ouch sh*t!!

maims3875

Just spoke to main dealers, there is another 4x4 , a hilux getting approx €6000 worth of work done due to similar problems, and it invalidates the mans warranty on the vehicle:mad:! Is there a government department who are responsible for checking the standard of fuel supplied to the public?

Rowley Birkin QC

Any chance of getting on to the supplier/garage?

Very difficult to prove liability I'd imagine, but might be worth a shot.

maims3875

Hi Kev

I spoke to the to garage managers last night, and I will be getting my sample tested. I think I have all the receipts for fuel purchased over the last month, so that will help!

ciarsd

maims3875 wrote: »

Hi Kev

I spoke to the to garage managers last night, and I will be getting my sample tested. I think I have all the receipts for fuel purchased over the last month, so that will help!

Nasty to hear of this (again).

If you've used your fuel card or credit card/laser card for your purchases - all the better for your proof of purchase

Is there any comeback if the fuel sample fails the quality test?

maims3875

of the 100ml sample taken, almost 12ml of the sample has seperated into water/ oil mix with some suspended particles visible. The sample may cost almost €800 to have analysed independently, on my account, does anyone know how to get this done cheaper?

niceirishfella

Hi,

This stuff could be WASHED diesel.........and would have a high degree of Acid in it and other shoitte..........basically.........GREEN diesled turned ILLEGALLY into White road diesel without paying the duty.

This stuff will and does wreck your injectors and Diesel pump.
If it's true, A call to customs is in order - they will be out to test it quick i can tell ya.

bazz26

niceirishfella wrote: »

Hi,

This stuff could be WASHED diesel.........and would have a high degree of Acid in it and other shoitte..........basically.........GREEN diesled turned ILLEGALLY into White road diesel without paying the duty.

This stuff will and does wreck your injectors and Diesel pump.
If it's true, A call to customs is in order - they will be out to test it quick i can tell ya.

If this is true then I would image the guilty garage might be emptying their tanks fairly quickly to get rid of any evidence.

cabrwab

Jesus i got off litely by the sounds of things.
These fu*king cowboys selling dirty diesel, its not like you did it unpurpose to void your warrenty.

maims3875

niceirishfella wrote: »

Hi,

This stuff could be WASHED diesel.........and would have a high degree of Acid in it and other shoitte..........basically.........GREEN diesled turned ILLEGALLY into White road diesel without paying the duty.

This stuff will and does wreck your injectors and Diesel pump.
If it's true, A call to customs is in order - they will be out to test it quick i can tell ya.

Thanks niceirishfella, for the tip for the customs, I gave them a call and they're interested alright and hopefully they'll find something dodgy going on.

carchaeologist

Not good, you would think it wouldnt be worth doing if this is the end result...maybe the storage tank is letting in water or is rusted?As a kerryman im interested in the outcome of this....

niceirishfella

maims3875 wrote: »

Thanks niceirishfella, for the tip for the customs, I gave them a call and they're interested alright and hopefully they'll find something dodgy going on.

no worries, if the customs find its is washed diesel, the vendor will get HAMMERED by them.........and you'll have the evidence to take a civil action against them to cover the costs of your repairs -
make sure you keep in contact with someone in CUSTOMS to let you know the outcome of thier visit.

best of luck with it.

oflynno

maims3875 wrote: »

of the 100ml sample taken, almost 12ml of the sample has seperated into water/ oil mix with some suspended particles visible. The sample may cost almost €800 to have analysed independently, on my account, does anyone know how to get this done cheaper?

director of consumer affairs
gardai
customs and excise

contact everyone and nail the gimps

Churchy

Keep us up to date on this one plz m8!

Oilrig

niceirishfella wrote: »

if the customs find its is washed diesel, the vendor will get HAMMERED by them......

+1

Whatever about pissing the cops etc off, Customs are one crowd you do not want to mess with.

niceirishfella

Oilrig wrote: »

+1

Whatever about pissing the cops etc off, Customs are one crowd you do not want to mess with.

+1 on that.
A know a bloke who works in the Customs, and he told me once that when you get done for something like avoiding duty on diesel, they will earmark you for audits on everything in your business.........so effectivley you'd be in real trouble and front of mind with the taxman for a long time.:eek:

peasant

just as an aside ...

It could be bacterial contamination as well ...

http://www.debugamericalatina.com/bacteria-in-diesel.html

maims3875

Thanks for the tip on the de-bug unit, I will get a quote for the unit from De-bug UK, might be handy due to the qty of water found in the sample.

Run_to_da_hills

Surely theres an opening for a swab test kit on the market for checking whether diesel is contaminated or not. With these common rail fuel pumps being so sensitive 1000's of yoyos worth of damage could be caused with these rogue dealers.

Back in the bad days of widespread diesel laundering in the north my cousin risked using farmers diesel for several years rather than go to his local filling station. His theory was if he was caught the fine would be less than the damage caused by using the correct stuff. With the prices the way they are now I could see more and more independant garages buying in bogus diesel.

maims3875

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Surely theres an opening for a swab test kit on the market for checking whether diesel is contaminated or not. With these common rail fuel pumps being so sensitive 1000's of yoyos worth of damage could be caused with these rogue dealers.

Back in the bad days of widespread diesel laundering in the north my cousin risked using farmers diesel for several years rather than go to his local filling station. His theory was if he was caught the fine would be less than the damage caused by using the correct stuff. With the prices the way they are now I could see more and more independant garages buying in bogus diesel.

Does anyone know where / if swab test kit can be got?

oflynno

i know about feeling sorry for the vendor BUT if you pay less for fuel off a guy you know is dodgy and it f's up your car fine
but if you pay legit prices (and they're dear) and you get dodgy fuel then shop the guy cos he isn't going to cough up cash to fix your car

isn't that what this thread is about?

maims3875

oflynno wrote: »

i know about feeling sorry for the vendor BUT if you pay less for fuel off a guy you know is dodgy and it f's up your car fine
but if you pay legit prices (and they're dear) and you get dodgy fuel then shop the guy cos he isn't going to cough up cash to fix your car

isn't that what this thread is about?

This thread was started to see if anyone else in Kerry has suffered similar problems and to highlight the possibility of dodgy fuel. The prices in the Tralee area, where these garages are located, is more or less the same, just like OPEC,except Kerry style! One of the potential suppliers of the contaminated fuel is a national brand, the other is a locally owned company.

I have paid high street prices for my fuel, €1.25/litre, not cheap fuel like you said.

More pi**ing off, is the fact that, I am now in a position where the warranty of the vehicles fuel system is void and I am going to be out of pocket for repairs, fuel analysis etc.. I have every intention of nailing the bast**d who sold me dodgy fuel to the cross!, and recovering the costs!

oflynno

i agree fully with you and if it turns out that 1 station was using dodgy ****e then take them to the cleaners too and sort the greedy fux out.

get everything on paper,sample results etc and fuel receipts,written confirmation from the garage on the condition of the car

keep them all together,i would ring customs or the weights and measures crowd and have a chat to the local gardai too.

if there is a criminal prosecution you can take a civil suit,apparantley

best of luck

niceirishfella

maims3875 wrote: »

This thread was started to see if anyone else in Kerry has suffered similar problems and to highlight the possibility of dodgy fuel. The prices in the Tralee area, where these garages are located, is more or less the same, just like OPEC,except Kerry style! One of the potential suppliers of the contaminated fuel is a national brand, the other is a locally owned company.

I have paid high street prices for my fuel, €1.25/litre, not cheap fuel like you said.

More pi**ing off, is the fact that, I am now in a position where the warranty of the vehicles fuel system is void and I am going to be out of pocket for repairs, fuel analysis etc.. I have every intention of nailing the bast**d who sold me dodgy fuel to the cross!, and recovering the costs!

OP, You are justified to harbour these thoughts.......and damn right to NAIL HIM!

ismynametoolong

Have a look at the below I have just ordered one of these test kits
not too expensive and may save thousands in the long run . Its also a simple way of proving whats been sold at the pump.

There are plenty of supposed legit forecourts that are topping up their
tanks with dodgy diesel ,There was a case only a couple of weeks ago in Galway where they were caught red handed filling / topping up tanks from a cattle truck in a recognised forecourt late at night.

Common rail systems are so sensitive to crap fuel and even if the high pressure side is cleaned out there is a hight probability of premature pump failure in 15 - 20 K

http://www.uniteddiesel.co.uk/diesel-sure.php

cavanmaniac

I posted a while ago about a starting problem with my diesel car - basically it would occasionally take several turns to start, usually if the car had been parked for a while.

We came to the conclusion that it might be glow plugs but in the interim, the problem has cleared up and I'm now thinking that a place in Cavan where I filled with cheaper diesel might be the cause of it.

Once that tank of diesel had worked its way out and was replaced with fuel from a different forecourt, the problem seemed to right itself and the car now starts first time, every time, like previously.

I also filled from another (new) forecourt around Christmas time and found that it gave me about 150 less miles to the full tank than usual :eek: The first inkling was when the needle failed to rise to the top of the guage until quite a while after filling up.

Some quick-buck merchants out there for sure, but word of mouth will bury them if the customs don't!;)

Spit62500

maims3875 wrote: »

of the 100ml sample taken, almost 12ml of the sample has seperated into water/ oil mix with some suspended particles visible. The sample may cost almost €800 to have analysed independently, on my account, does anyone know how to get this done cheaper?

Could it be that this is the dregs of the storage tanks rather than laundered diesel as suggested earlier? You'd hope that the pumps would filter out particles but it must be tricky to prevent water being pumped along with the diesel. Do forecourt pumps have a system to prevent this happening?

oflynno

ya but no

they only do to a certain level
if your tank is down a long way and you splash in new stuff any sediment will be agitated and spun around the tank

in new cars there should be no crap in the tanks,obviously,the older the car the more shyte will be built up over time

i do a pint of kerosene in a full tank to clean it out and then later down the line a pint of clean engine oil to lubricate and protect all moving parts in the pump etc

i think it works so thats me happy

testicle

Sinn Fein are quite popular in North Kerry.

oflynno

testicle wrote: »

Sinn Fein are quite popular in North Kerry.

good one:D

maims3875

ismynametoolong wrote: »

Have a look at the below I have just ordered one of these test kits
not too expensive and may save thousands in the long run . Its also a simple way of proving whats been sold at the pump.

There are plenty of supposed legit forecourts that are topping up their
tanks with dodgy diesel ,There was a case only a couple of weeks ago in Galway where they were caught red handed filling / topping up tanks from a cattle truck in a recognised forecourt late at night.

Common rail systems are so sensitive to crap fuel and even if the high pressure side is cleaned out there is a hight probability of premature pump failure in 15 - 20 K

http://www.uniteddiesel.co.uk/diesel-sure.php

thanks for the link, I have ordered a test kit, which is reasonable at £28.50, incl P&P. I luckily have the majority of receipts for all fuel since january, only from three garages, all in the Tralee area.

For Information, One of the potential suppliers, has declared his products clean from contamination, after independent testing of his tanks, but thats his word only, the other garages haven't been in contact so I am hoping Customs will be in touch today with news!

niceirishfella

keep us up to date on this........best of luck

maims3875

Will Do!

oflynno

ask the guy who declared his stuff clean from contaminents for a copy of the written report he got

if he got it tested he has one
if it is clean he will give you one

keep up the detective work,good job

kc66

Take a look at this article, particularly towards the end http://www.meathchronicle.ie/story.asp?stID=831&cid=126&cid2=

May not be relevant but just in case I will post it.

maims3875

kc66 wrote: »

Take a look at this article, particularly towards the end http://www.meathchronicle.ie/story.asp?stID=831&cid=126&cid2=

May not be relevant but just in case I will post it.

thanks for the news clip, my vehicle is going in for a full fuel ssytem strip down and clean this thursday. the vehicle is still starting without problem.

It is amazing though how costs escalate for vehicle repairs soon after the warranty runs out.

maims3875

Not Washed Diesel!! Customs phoned & have confirmed that the diesel isn't washed, but they are sending a second sample off to do a full analysis & check if it is "laundered" diesel. The results form the customs analysis will take over one week to be finalised.

At least that saves me from getting it done myself & a couple of quid!

I collected the vehicle yesterday evening and there is a huge improvement in the power output of the engine. The main dealers charged me €300 for the work. I recovered over 20 litres of fuel from the vehicle and it is bad.

The warranty is still in question, the garage wouldn't commit to say that any future fuel incidents would be covered, even though the vehicle passed a diagnostic check.

maims3875

oflynno wrote: »

ask the guy who declared his stuff clean from contaminents for a copy of the written report he got

if he got it tested he has one
if it is clean he will give you one

keep up the detective work,good job

I called to the garage who had the fuel /tanks tested, Funny enough the owner wouldn't give me a copy of the report, so I will have to get a legal eagle to request a copy.

niceirishfella

Yes, I smell a rat.

cabrwab

Roland the big giant rat! Well least it aint the 6k some people where paying out glas you got it done quickly and painlessly, the same thing i had to get done.

Careful now.

maims3875

cabrwab wrote: »

Roland the big giant rat! Well least it aint the 6k some people where paying out glas you got it done quickly and painlessly, the same thing i had to get done.

Careful now.

I think I am fortunate to get the away with the loss of warranty, I am hoping to have that decision reversed in my favour and have requested the garage to log all diagnostic checks into the system,as they are OK, I got a copy of the results for my records.

Intersting note from customs, when I requested an update on one of the garages, they said that the cannot up date me on the results of their inspection as they work is confidential. I will need to watch the papers. the results from the full analysis should come this week.

As stated before, proving liability will be the hardest problem, even with the all the receipts etc..

niceirishfella

maims3875 wrote: »

Intersting note from customs, when I requested an update on one of the garages, they said that the cannot op date me on the results of their inspection as they work is confidential. I will need to watch the papers. the results from the full analysis should come this week.
quote]



Errrrmmmm, They are a gov body, and are FOI'able?
Would it apply to the customs...maybe not tho?

oflynno

they won't give out any info cos they might have the case still opened and won't divulge squat

hopefully they are doing a job on your garage man:D

maims3875

oflynno wrote: »

they won't give out any info cos they might have the case still opened and won't divulge squat

hopefully they are doing a job on your garage man:D

I hope so, but you never know how long it takes for it to surface in the media, I think that the customs should be capable of self prosecuting offenders, then name and shame them in the national press, same as they do to tax dodgers.

niceirishfella

if they get a prosecution against him, then its a matter of public record.
Weather the local media air or print it is another matter.
However, you could tip off the local radio station and get it highlighted on their mid moring talk show?

carchaeologist

Thanks for keeping us up to date sir

maims3875

Its over one week since the vehicle has had a fuel system clean / flush through and it is perfoming much better, although it sounds a bit clangy first thing in the morning!

I have been buying my diesel from one of the garages which was suspected of supplying the diesel, ( the least likely suspect) and I have been keeping a log of all fuel purchases and paying for everything using a debit card, as recommended by the main dealer.

I received the diesel tester and it is such a simple device to use, I would recommend to all, basically it tests a sample of diesel (80ml) for liquid density, its a hydrometer. yesterday, I purchased €80+ of diesel, but tested it before putting into the vehicle, the look on the managers face was priceless! Fuel tested ok though, which is the most important thing.

I hope to be in contact with the Customs today. Will keep you informed!

Vain

maims3875 wrote: »

This thread was started to see if anyone else in Kerry has suffered similar problems and to highlight the possibility of dodgy fuel. The prices in the Tralee area, where these garages are located, is more or less the same, just like OPEC,except Kerry style! One of the potential suppliers of the contaminated fuel is a national brand, the other is a locally owned company.

I have paid high street prices for my fuel, €1.25/litre, not cheap fuel like you said.

More pi**ing off, is the fact that, I am now in a position where the warranty of the vehicles fuel system is void and I am going to be out of pocket for repairs, fuel analysis etc.. I have every intention of nailing the bast**d who sold me dodgy fuel to the cross!, and recovering the costs!

If its the local company i think your on about, Iv heard bad story’s about there petrol aswel, Plus i find it odd that they get supplied by an unmarked tanker in the middle of the night even have seen it at 1am on a sun bankhol weekend:eek: