Ok just look at this....

son.of.jimi

Now i'm really trying to find the basic logic in how you can do this to kids....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUeoem1gR3s

I mean come on, it's not science it's art? Honestly the scary thing is these kids are the future and even when the facts are put out in front of them they're still gonna ignore them.... I mean i'd love to be the criminal who has one of these kids as they're judge in the future....

Anyone else want to smack that bald shiny head of his?

Dades

son.of.jimi wrote: »

Anyone else want to smack that bald shiny head of his?

Yep.

OK-Cancel-Apply

Disgusting mind rape, needless to say. That's textbook brainwashing - "Say after me. Again. Again. Good."

But yeah, I'm sure 50% of those kids are smelling BS from the bald guy's speeches.

5uspect

Which one is J C and which is Wolfsbane?

eoin5

"You need to think like Creationists."

Explanation as to why = nop

5uspect

Reminds me of this episode of Moral Orel:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3116519970829468189

OK-Cancel-Apply

5uspect wrote: »

Reminds me of this episode of Moral Orel:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3116519970829468189

Haha brilliant!

adamd164

K, I'm sorry I watched that now, it's pissed me right off.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

well, now you know how they feel when they visit a natural history museum.

Hivemind187

... why in the hell are the museum allowing this procession of dribbling idiots and tubby maniacs to run tours?

How do you know?" - I wonder if the creep has ever considered turning that attitude inward and examining his own babbling bug-eyed philosophy.

Overheal

I'd love to shove an Apple of Knowledge down their throats.

Zillah

"...I've come here for good science..."

Why do you turn this into a museum of lies?!

Zillah

Ahaha: "Ok....there are several problems for the Creationist...uhm...there's no doubt about that..."


Also, those two little jerk offs at 6:58 make me want to ram a spike into their stupid little heads.

nesf

Yeah, my tolerance for religion just doesn't extend to people like these. Wilfully denying empirical evidence just isn't kosher.

JimiTime

It seems to me there is a great fear among them, that the science will take their children away or something. While I believe in Creation, I am certainly not a creationist. This video is very, very sad, actually a bit distubing!:(

nesf

JimiTime wrote: »

While I believe in Creation, I am certainly not a creationist.

That's the thing isn't it, these people are essentially a small whackjob subset of people who believe in Creation.

Zillah

JimiTime wrote: »

While I believe in Creation, I am certainly not a creationist.

Ya wha?

death1234567

It would be funny how stupid those people are if it wasn't real. Stuff like that 'tour' should be illegal.

For every intelligent person taking mankind forward by inventing/investigating things scientifically there are 9 idiots trying to hold us back.

Dades

death1234567 wrote: »

For every intelligent person taking mankind forward by inventing/investigating things scientifically there are 9 idiots trying to hold us back.

In reality there were only two idiots in that video, and a group of impressionable children unlucky enough to have been born to other idiots.

nesf

death1234567 wrote: »

Stuff like that 'tour' should be illegal.

Seriously, no.

adamd164

If it was being done to children of unwilling parents, it would certainly want to be illegal. Here, it clearly is not. Parents are going to teach their children what they wish.

I don't like the fact, and I pity the children, but I can only put a stop to it when it's being done to my own. Then it becomes a war.

BrianCalgary

What a disturbing thread. All of you who disagree with the tour guides want to shut them up,

Overheal: I'd love to shove an Apple of Knowledge down their throats.

hivemind: ... why in the hell are the museum allowing this procession of dribbling idiots and tubby maniacs to run tours?

son of jimmy: Anyone else want to smack that bald shiny head of his?

And you have the gall to call Christians intolerant and hypocrites?

OK-Cancel-Apply

BrianCalgary wrote: »

What a disturbing thread. All of you who disagree with the tour guides want to shut them up,

Overheal: I'd love to shove an Apple of Knowledge down their throats.

hivemind: ... why in the hell are the museum allowing this procession of dribbling idiots and tubby maniacs to run tours?

son of jimmy: Anyone else want to smack that bald shiny head of his?

And you have the gall to call Christians intolerant and hypocrites?

But wouldn't you react with anger if the video showed them teaching the kids the $cientology story (Xenu etc)? And if they were getting the kids to repeat over and over, 'Xenu is our overlord and master', before they were old enough to see it was nonsense?

nesf

BrianCalgary wrote: »

What a disturbing thread. All of you who disagree with the tour guides want to shut them up

No we don't, some of us just think they are wackos and are talking crazy stuff but that they have every right to teach their kids what they want. They just don't get to call it a science and have it taught in schools in general. I think this is a perfectly acceptable compromise between the intelligent design/evolution in schools debate. I might think that they are talking complete crap but I don't I've a right to tell them not to do it since it's not like they're raising their kids to think that it's ok to break the law or similar.

I can't remember who said it but the quote "Sir, I disagree completely with you but I'll die to protect your right to say it" (I'm messing up the words but the general message is there). I could google for the proper quote and author but I'm feeling lazy.

robindch

BrianCalgary wrote: »

What a disturbing thread. All of you who disagree with the tour guides want to shut them up,

Not quite "all". Like nesf, I certainly don't want to shut these guides up, and I'm not at all sure that the state should try to either.

In all fairness, it's really up to the parents to ensure that they're educated properly, so it's really up to them either to shut these people up or remove them from positions where they can abuse the trust of children and parents alike. If parents abandon their responsibility and teach kids prehistoric mythical trash as truth, or people like that overweight buffoon do it for them, then sooner or later, it will come around to bite both the children and parents, by creating the kind of stone-age society they seek, with a concomitant stone-age outlook.

There are enough countries out there with teachers and educational systems that respect education, children and the real world who deserve the kind of knowledge-based economic success that these people have no interest in sustaining.

Zombrex

BrianCalgary wrote: »

What a disturbing thread. All of you who disagree with the tour guides want to shut them up

No, apparently 3 of those who disagree with the tour guides want to shut them up, and I doubt they were that serious about "slapping their bald shiny heads"

But I will remind myself of your comments the next time someone says something silly like "All Christians are Creationist idiots who believe the Earth is only 6,000 years old" and the Christian forum goes nuts. :pac:

the GALL

all hail the chief:D

Nerin

JimiTime wrote: »

It seems to me there is a great fear among them, that the science will take their children away or something. While I believe in Creation, I am certainly not a creationist. This video is very, very sad, actually a bit distubing!:(

Zillah wrote: »

Ya wha?

correct me if im wrong jimitime, but i think what he means zillah is he believes a deity created the world,but not in a "magic fairy dust" way, as in the world was created and stuff evolved, but that was the plan. or something. ive explained it before on the christianity forum but didnt really get anywhere

nesf wrote: »

I can't remember who said it but the quote "Sir, I disagree completely with you but I'll die to protect your right to say it" (I'm messing up the words but the general message is there). I could google for the proper quote and author but I'm feeling lazy.

voltaire, and it was i detest what you write, but would give my life for you to continue to write.

Citizen_Erased

Isn't this guy wrong from the start by thinking Jesus was their "creator and designer" ... I don't remember much from religion class but I coulda sworn that was actually god ...

Nerin

Citizen_Erased wrote: »

Isn't this guy wrong from the start by thinking Jesus was their "creator and designer" ... I don't remember much from religion class but I coulda sworn that was actually god ...

some can decide whether jesus was god when creating the world or whether god created the persona of jesus after.
meh

nesf

nerin wrote: »

voltaire, and it was i detest what you write, but would give my life for you to continue to write.

Thank you.

Mena

Dades wrote: »

In reality there were only two idiots in that video, and a group of impressionable children unlucky enough to have been born to other idiots.

Fully agreed. Damn, I think I'm becomming a militant evolutionist, watching that had my blood boiling. Hopefully these poor kids will have the opportunity to question this drivel and make up their own minds in the future...

death1234567

OK-Cancel-Apply wrote: »

But wouldn't you react with anger if the video showed them teaching the kids the $cientology story (Xenu etc)? And if they were getting the kids to repeat over and over, 'Xenu is our overlord and master', before they were old enough to see it was nonsense?

Hey! Repeat after me "Xenu is good, Xenu is great, we surrender our will as of this date"

Na Na Na Na Na XENU, Na Na Na Na Na XENU, XENU,XENU, BATMAN...I mean XENU.

Dades

BrianCalgary wrote: »

And you have the gall to call Christians intolerant and hypocrites?

I for one am intolerant of child abuse, and proud of it.

Anyone watch the "Creation v Evolution"* documentary on Wed night? Twas on one of the Irish channels. Had all the usual suspects, Dawkins, AIG people, Ken Hamm. It was surprisingly aggressive toward the "Christian science". It even has a narrator whose tone turned sinister whenever talking about Christian schooling, which I thought was a bit cheesy and unnecessary. I mean thats a creationist tactic itself! I prefer the scientist and petri dish approach.

But seriously - dinosaurs had sharp teeth and claws to open the tougher fruits in the Garden of Eden?

* I think that was the name

robindch

Dades wrote: »

Anyone watch the "Creation v Evolution"* documentary on Wed night?

Yep, was about to go to bed when I saw a post by df (?) about it; "Creation vs Darwin" afair.

Dades wrote: »

It even has a narrator whose tone turned sinister whenever talking about Christian schooling, which I thought was a bit cheesy and unnecessary. I mean thats a creationist tactic itself! I prefer the scientist and petri dish approach.

It's certainly more honest to approaching people with a petri dish and a microscope in the hope that you can appeal to their better nature, but unfortunately, there's a certain sad logic to fighting fire with fire. Hence the rather successful full point and laugh treatment that Dawkins and company have been at since last week's "Expelled" PR disaster!

JimiTime

nerin wrote: »

correct me if im wrong jimitime, but i think what he means zillah is he believes a deity created the world,but not in a "magic fairy dust" way, as in the world was created and stuff evolved, but that was the plan. or something. ive explained it before on the christianity forum but didnt really get anywhere

Afraid not nerin:) Truth is, I don't know the method used. I am opposed to these people believing they are being 'Zealous', by peddling stuff they obviously know little about to impressionable children. As a Christian, I think these folks cause more harm than good, not only to their children, but christianity as a whole.

Zillah

BrianCalgary wrote: »

And you have the gall to call Christians intolerant and hypocrites?

Intolerance isn't neccessarily a bad thing. For example, I'm intolerant of people lying to children.

Yes, I'd like them to shut up. They're lying to children.


Are you not intolerant of people lying to children?

nesf

Zillah wrote: »

=Yes, I'd like them to shut up. They're lying to children.

So if I tell my son that the sun is a big ball of fire in the sky you'd like to shut me up? Or if I tell him Santa exists? Etc.

Zombrex

nesf wrote: »

So if I tell my son that the sun is a big ball of fire in the sky you'd like to shut me up? Or if I tell him Santa exists? Etc.

Or if you tell them that John next door is a child molester, or that their mother is a whore .... because all lies are the same ...

I think it was pretty clear what Zillah meant

5uspect

BrianCalgary wrote: »

What a disturbing thread. All of you who disagree with the tour guides want to shut them up,

Is this a good time to use that joke about the whole debate between the stork theory of child reproduction and the sex theory?

Brian, what these guys are saying are clearly lies. Wanting them to be held responsible for this is not hypocrisy.

iUseVi

This is clearly child abuse.

Zombrex

iUseVi wrote: »

This is clearly child abuse.

Not sure I would go that far, but it is certainly irresponsible parenting. But judging by the parents they seem as clueless and ignorant as the children.

iUseVi

Wicknight wrote: »

Not sure I would go that far, but it is certainly irresponsible parenting. But judging by the parents they seem as clueless and ignorant as the children.

Yeah I hesitated before going that far. But there comes a point when parents can go too far. I have direct experience of this creationist BS, and it really does cause harm. It perhaps will manifest itself subtly, but it poisons the mind.

This issue goes much wider than just creationism imho. Do parents cause harm teaching religious doctrine? Certainly. However what gives me the right to interfere? What gives the right for anyone to interfere? Gah, its really frustrating theres no simple solution for this!

The parents really think they are teaching the children the truth. Theres no doubt about that. We just happen to know they are wrong. I think its our job/duty to show the parents the error of there ways. The children are entirely innocent bystanders.

kelly1

son.of.jimi wrote: »

Now i'm really trying to find the basic logic in how you can do this to kids....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUeoem1gR3s

Very sad indeed. Creationists just create an unnecessary conflict between science and religion.

Zombrex

iUseVi wrote: »

The parents really think they are teaching the children the truth. Theres no doubt about that. We just happen to know they are wrong. I think its our job/duty to show the parents the error of there ways. The children are entirely innocent bystanders.

I suppose it comes down to the wider issue of home schooling, do parents have the right to f**k up their children's education.

Popinjay

5uspect wrote: »

Is this a good time to use that joke about the whole debate between the stork theory of child reproduction and the sex theory?

Brian, what these guys are saying are clearly lies. Wanting them to be held responsible for this is not hypocrisy.

Almost regret changing my sig now. That was it for a while. I think Wolfy wanted me to changed it to Spontaneous Generation instead of Stork Theory.

See here: Section 1.1 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenesis

folan

i liked the museum curator. His feeling was if these kids do this tour and even a couple start to think, well thats not right, then its worth it.

And that he used to be llike them. He just did more research and came to his own conclusions. So let it go on, and i can see these kids starting to ask more questions!

nesf

Wicknight wrote: »

Or if you tell them that John next door is a child molester, or that their mother is a whore .... because all lies are the same ...

I think it was pretty clear what Zillah meant

Meh, I think we'd all agree that some lies are ok to tell kids and some aren't. The issue is where we draw the line and this is one of those times where it isn't black and white over which is ok and which isn't.

Wicknight wrote: »

I suppose it comes down to the wider issue of home schooling, do parents have the right to f**k up their children's education.

Yeah, that's a tricky one. Does the state have a right to force a "proper" education on all children or is this a choice for parents to make? Etc.

eoin5

Apart from telling kids some total nonsense to be true its also teaching them how to deny logic and reason as creationism blatently has no legs to stand on. Most religious thought tends to fill in the gaps but creationism purports to be a valid alternative to evidence based research. I reckon most of those kids will smell a rat but its the kind of thing that for some people a shrink will have to spend time breaking down.

When it comes to the science question in the state exams it better not include a question on a veggie T-Rex.

son.of.jimi

Well i think i should post again here!!

as for my slap the bald guy comment i stand by that, if he were teaching the kids about cration without dragging them to a museum i would'nt have a problem, although i don't agree with creationism at all.

the fact is these two guys brought these kids to a museum that has everything in front of them and explains evolution to everyone who enters it's doors and yet they try to fit their "facts' of creation to the kids using the museum as a visual aid.

this is why baldy needs a slap!

Dades

Please note the Atheism & Agnosticism forum does not formally condone the slapping of bald men on the head.

Even creationists.