Future of Engineering in Ireland

fitzie79

I am an electrical/electronic engineer and am currently working in the manufacturing industry. With the ever increasing costs here in Ireland manufacturing is struggling and even high-tech manufacturing is struggling to compete with China and India and eastern european countries. Allied to that there are fewer people entering engineering and science course with the knock on effect of fewer top quality engineers qualifying.

What do people think the of the future for engineering in ireland? What industries do people think engineers of the future here in ireland will work in? Are there any (part-time) courses available that are useful for upskilling to ensure that I would have the relevant qualifications to enter these newer industries?

chris85

fitzie79 wrote: »

I am an electrical/electronic engineer and am currently working in the manufacturing industry. With the ever increasing costs here in Ireland manufacturing is struggling and even high-tech manufacturing is struggling to compete with China and India and eastern european countries. Allied to that there are fewer people entering engineering and science course with the knock on effect of fewer top quality engineers qualifying.

What do people think the of the future for engineering in ireland? What industries do people think engineers of the future here in ireland will work in? Are there any (part-time) courses available that are useful for upskilling to ensure that I would have the relevant qualifications to enter these newer industries?

I think that the energy sector in many countries inluding Ireland will see a rise in them. The buzz word is to reduce our carbon footprint. there are some very interesting methods being researched at the moment. Many colleges are starting to introduce course on the energy industry.

I also see the engineering industry in Ireland to move more into the research and development side of things. This is from the trend that the natural reduction in manufacturing in a developing country sees an increase in the R&D in a country. This will mean more masters students and other postgraduate developments.

Science is still a strong college sector. The salary is very good and competitive and allows huge variety. The STEPS program is trying to promote the sector as the goverment realise that science and engineering is very much needed for the next few years.

Well thats my two cents

madnirvana

FUTURE = SHYTE in Ireland

godtabh

madnirvana wrote: »

FUTURE = SHYTE in Ireland

Very useful post.

The civil engineering sector or anything in that field will always have a future. It may not always be bright but there will be a steady need for civil engineers over the next 10-15 years in both Ireland and England. England will be very big employer in the coming years with the Olympics coming up.

In Ireland the building industry maybe slowing down but with the investment the Goverment is making in infrastructure its going to be another area of big employment.

I'm happy enough with having a future in Ireland as a civil engineer but as with anything if you stand still you'll get left behind. I'm doing a masters in civil engineering now and I'll be doing another unrelated one once I'm finished probably in business or some such.

In saying all that I havent a clue what the other sectors are going to be like.

madnirvana

madnirvana wrote: »

FUTURE = SHYTE in Ireland

Banned for a week. You were warned before.

folan

I'm cautiously optimistic. I'm in the electronics/computers end of the business and I can see there being an increase in the demand, albeit small at the moment. Plus, we Irish seem to make great engineers which is in our favour and will hopefully bring more work from foreign investments in the coming years.

At the moment, I think a major issue for engineering in Ireland (aside from the obvious construction boom ending) is the cost of the $, and as fitzie said, the costs are lower for manufacturing in places like China and Eastern Europe for American companies.

But I'm also encouraged by the number of successful start-ups internally in ROI (Ive nothing to back this up at hand but Im hearing alot of positive stuff).

Also, look at the strength of the pharmaceutical industry! It looks good!

godtabh

folan wrote: »

aside from the obvious construction boom ending

The construction boom isn't ending. Its changing. Companies that are focused on residential development will be in trouble but areas like transport are still going strong.

folan

sorry, just my perception, and a bad choice of words.

As I say, I'm in a different field so I really have no experience of it. Should have stuck to what I know!

chris85

kearnsr wrote: »

The construction boom isn't ending. Its changing. Companies that are focused on residential development will be in trouble but areas like transport are still going strong.

+1

The m50 upgrade is going to be there for few more years and its a big project aas they are changing a lot of the junctions to free flowing junctions.

A number of other big projects include the development of Lansdowne road, the development of the area around Henry street (including the Arnotts building) which is set to be a prime shopping location in the East of the country.

http://buckplanning.blogspot.com/2007/07/750m-arnotts-development-gets-green.html

DublinDilbert

chris85 wrote: »

+1

The m50 upgrade is going to be there for few more years and its a big project aas they are changing a lot of the junctions to free flowing junctions.

A number of other big projects include the development of Lansdowne road, the development of the area around Henry street (including the Arnotts building) which is set to be a prime shopping location in the East of the country.

http://buckplanning.blogspot.com/2007/07/750m-arnotts-development-gets-green.html

There is a serious slow down in commercial property also, as many large comercial properties were being funded by residential building... this is how the big residential builders plan to generate income after the residential boom has finished... The thing i would say about civil projects is although they are large in nature, eg M50 upgrade, they are highly mechanised and will not require that many people...

The problem with R & D in ireland is lack of investment, this is partially because of the building boom also, if someone had €1M to invest, in the past 10 years they could double that money by investing in property for say 2.5 years, not do any work and get a guaranteed return.... why would they bother investing in a company that may / may not give a return? Unfortunately this is the attitude of many investors / banks in ireland...

It is unfortunate that R & D is so badly funded here, as there's lots of smart irish people, many of them working in R&D in other countries, just not here... Campus companies are great ways of trying to commercialize new technologies, and create jobs. But in ireland these are mainly being "pushed" and funded by the universities, they really require investors to come on board too... Also the irish market is quite small so anyone developing technology needs to be looking internationally.....

chris85

DublinDilbert wrote: »

There is a serious slow down in commercial property also, as many large comercial properties were being funded by residential building... this is how the big residential builders plan to generate income after the residential boom has finished... The thing i would say about civil projects is although they are large in nature, eg M50 upgrade, they are highly mechanised and will not require that many people...

The problem with R & D in ireland is lack of investment, this is partially because of the building boom also, if someone had €1M to invest, in the past 10 years they could double that money by investing in property for say 2.5 years, not do any work and get a guaranteed return.... why would they bother investing in a company that may / may not give a return? Unfortunately this is the attitude of many investors / banks in ireland...

It is unfortunate that R & D is so badly funded here, as there's lots of smart irish people, many of them working in R&D in other countries, just not here... Campus companies are great ways of trying to commercialize new technologies, and create jobs. But in ireland these are mainly being "pushed" and funded by the universities, they really require investors to come on board too... Also the irish market is quite small so anyone developing technology needs to be looking internationally.....

you are right that the R&D is lagging behind some other countries but it is increasing. There is a lot of work in universaties and this is where it starts, it should lead to a more competitive R&D sector in the future.

It is hard to predict what will happen but i do not think we are fecked at the moment tbh. of course i can be a bit of an optimist at times :rolleyes:

lafors

fitzie79 wrote: »

I am an electrical/electronic engineer and am currently working in the manufacturing industry. With the ever increasing costs here in Ireland manufacturing is struggling and even high-tech manufacturing is struggling to compete with China and India and eastern european countries. Allied to that there are fewer people entering engineering and science course with the knock on effect of fewer top quality engineers qualifying.

What do people think the of the future for engineering in ireland? What industries do people think engineers of the future here in ireland will work in? Are there any (part-time) courses available that are useful for upskilling to ensure that I would have the relevant qualifications to enter these newer industries?

I work in Manufacturing-Semicon Industry at present.
Personally I don't see much of a future in this sector in Ireland. Companies in the manufacturing sector are either letting people go (usually in small numbers) or letting natural depletion (people leave, don't replace them) take its course.

Unfortunately it seems to be due to a number of factors, the cost of wages/facilities/transport/etc..... here, and also due to the state of the US economy. There are a lot of big multinational companies based here who are desperate to cut costs, and we are an expensive place to be these days.

There are people who think this will settle down and these over sized companies are just shedding weight but I don't agree. I think we had it good, and now there are far too many countries that are in the same place we were about 10/15 years ago, waiting to take our place. We had it good, now is the real test to see if we can adapt. Though I think it'll take something like a big multinational laying off a large number of people for this to happen, which IMHO will happen in 2009/2010.

With regards to your question about qualifications, if you have a dip, then get your degree, if you've a degree then get your masters, if you've a masters do a phD.....and be overqualified and no one will employ you Only joking
I'd say if you can get a masters in you area do so, then if needs be in the future you can always change areas easily enough. Though if you decide to go abroad just make sure your dip/deg.... is accepted as such outside Ireland.

I think we're all in the same boat....jump or be pushed

folan

lafors wrote: »

I'd say if you can get a masters in you area do so, then if needs be in the future you can always change areas easily enough. Though if you decide to go abroad just make sure your dip/deg.... is accepted as such outside Ireland.

Good advice for Electronics anyway, I was advised to do this by alot of people in my dept last year, aparently the degree here doesnt always equate to the standard in other countries, european mainly i think, where as the masters is the same in most european countries. Also, it can raise your pay grade:D

I'm more optimistic than you, and would half guess you you work for by the way your speaking, and if i was right i could definitely see what your on to. Either way, there is a definite worry. but a great opportunity exists for us to (great engineers!) so i remain defiantly optimistic

sharkDawg

folan wrote: »

Good advice for Electronics anyway, I was advised to do this by alot of people in my dept last year, aparently the degree here doesnt always equate to the standard in other countries, european mainly i think, where as the masters is the same in most european countries.

Just wondering what you mean by this, I know where I am studying our degree is accredited by Engineers Ireland which means it is recognised all over the world, so how can it not be of the same standard as other countries?

godtabh

sharkDawg wrote: »

Just wondering what you mean by this, I know where I am studying our degree is accredited by Engineers Ireland which means it is recognised all over the world, so how can it not be of the same standard as other countries?

There are different agreement between differenct countires some degrees are accredited and some are note.

I think the orginal question was relating to over seas masters and that would be more of an issue than your degree

lafors

folan wrote: »

I'm more optimistic than you, and would half guess you you work for by the way your speaking, and if i was right i could definitely see what your on to. Either way, there is a definite worry. but a great opportunity exists for us to (great engineers!) so i remain defiantly optimistic

I'm sure you can guess
In fairness good engineers will always have jobs here.
I am optimistic for myself, but I'd be worried for the majority of the lads I know who entered manufacturing either straight from school or left their college courses to take the jobs years ago.

I can't remember off hand where you can find out if you course is certified abroad(and where) but I'd say Engineers of Ireland isa good place to start/ask.

folan

Sorry, ive been a bit unclear here, but what I meant was that in some countries, a level 9 engineer would have been more standard to enter the industry for the first time, unlike here where a level 8 would be more the standard.

Best reference for levels is this, i think Myth posted it in another thread and i happened upon it. I was always a little unsure.
http://www.ics-skills.ie/eucip/images/NFQ.jpg

vincenzo1975

http://www.esbi.ie/careers/vacancies.html

You seriously need to get onto the ESBI if you are looking for work in what will be the fuuture on the Energy industry.

ESB News story

Thursday March 27th, 2008: ESB has today announced that the company is to embark on an unprecedented capital investment programme of €22 billion.
The Board of ESB has approved a Strategic Framework to 2020 that will see major company investment in renewable energy, the halving of its carbon emissions within 12 years, and the achievement of carbon net-zero by 2035. Fifty percent of the overall investment package is geared towards investments in our renewable future. €4bn of this will be directly invested in renewable energy projects and €6.5bn will be spent facilitating renewables including smart metering and smart networks.
The plan, which will establish ESB as a world class renewables company, makes emissions reduction and energy efficiency central to its ambitious targets.
By 2020, ESB will be delivering one-third of its electricity from renewable generation. This will include over 1,400 megawatts of wind generation, in addition to wave, tidal and biomass. To promote this, the company will invest in emerging green technologies.
The €11 billion to be invested by ESB in its Networks will ensure continued efficient delivery of the vital infrastructure needed to support the Irish economy. It will also facilitate the development of up to 6,000 megawatts of wind on the island.
ESB will maintain its market share of power generation at well below 40 percent to facilitate continuing competition in the energy market. Completion of the present closure/divestment of 1500 megawatts of its stations and sites will assist this process. ESB will continue to enhance plant availability and performance in line with EU norms.
ESB will drive substantial cost reductions in overheads across all its businesses in order to meet its new financial challenges. Strong financial performance and continuing rigorous funding will underpin the investment plan while achieving shareholder and customer value.
Preparing for competition in the retail market, ESB will focus on delivering energy conservation and new initiatives on energy efficiencies.
With the development of a single British-Irish electricity market by 2020, ESB's international profile will continue to expand. The company will invest in more generation plants and renewables in Britain and further plants in Europe.
ESB Chairman, Lochlann Quinn, said the Strategic Framework to 2020 addresses ESB's response to those major imperatives now demanding action.
"ESB is operating in a dramatically changing environment. Three overarching concerns now exist - the consequences of climate change, energy security and competitiveness of energy supply and ESB is strong, focussed and prepared to deal with them", Mr Quinn said.
ESB Chief Executive, Padraig McManus, said ESB had demonstrated its ability to execute strategic change in the past while maintaining profitable growth.
"ESB is now entering a new period of particular challenge that we embrace with enthusiasm and vigour. This robust plan will deliver tangible and sustainable results for the economy as we face global challenges in a coherent and managed way. It positions us as a leading energy company in Europe", he said.

DublinDilbert

vincenzo1975 wrote: »

http://www.esbi.ie/careers/vacancies.html

You seriously need to get onto the ESBI if you are looking for work in what will be the fuuture on the Energy industry.

ESB News story

Thursday March 27th, 2008: ESB has today announced that the company is to embark on an unprecedented capital investment programme of €22 billion.
The Board of ESB has approved a Strategic Framework to 2020 that will see major company investment in renewable energy, the halving of its carbon emissions within 12 years, and the achievement of carbon net-zero by 2035. Fifty percent of the overall investment package is geared towards investments in our renewable future. €4bn of this will be directly invested in renewable energy projects and €6.5bn will be spent facilitating renewables including smart metering and smart networks.
The plan, which will establish ESB as a world class renewables company, makes emissions reduction and energy efficiency central to its ambitious targets.
By 2020, ESB will be delivering one-third of its electricity from renewable generation. This will include over 1,400 megawatts of wind generation, in addition to wave, tidal and biomass. To promote this, the company will invest in emerging green technologies.
The €11 billion to be invested by ESB in its Networks will ensure continued efficient delivery of the vital infrastructure needed to support the Irish economy. It will also facilitate the development of up to 6,000 megawatts of wind on the island.
ESB will maintain its market share of power generation at well below 40 percent to facilitate continuing competition in the energy market. Completion of the present closure/divestment of 1500 megawatts of its stations and sites will assist this process. ESB will continue to enhance plant availability and performance in line with EU norms.
ESB will drive substantial cost reductions in overheads across all its businesses in order to meet its new financial challenges. Strong financial performance and continuing rigorous funding will underpin the investment plan while achieving shareholder and customer value.
Preparing for competition in the retail market, ESB will focus on delivering energy conservation and new initiatives on energy efficiencies.
With the development of a single British-Irish electricity market by 2020, ESB's international profile will continue to expand. The company will invest in more generation plants and renewables in Britain and further plants in Europe.
ESB Chairman, Lochlann Quinn, said the Strategic Framework to 2020 addresses ESB's response to those major imperatives now demanding action.
"ESB is operating in a dramatically changing environment. Three overarching concerns now exist - the consequences of climate change, energy security and competitiveness of energy supply and ESB is strong, focussed and prepared to deal with them", Mr Quinn said.
ESB Chief Executive, Padraig McManus, said ESB had demonstrated its ability to execute strategic change in the past while maintaining profitable growth.
"ESB is now entering a new period of particular challenge that we embrace with enthusiasm and vigour. This robust plan will deliver tangible and sustainable results for the economy as we face global challenges in a coherent and managed way. It positions us as a leading energy company in Europe", he said.

The ESBI is a bit easier to get into than the ESB, the ESB seems to be a closed shop...

I was reading an Ad in the paper for Eirgrid (which is/was part of the ESB) about 12 months ago, and under the section about "how to apply" it said something like "fill out the application and submit to your supervisor", it was obvious that they'd just cut and pasted an internal ESB ad for the "token" ad in the news paper.... I would wonder was there even jobs going or had they already got people lined up for them....

godtabh

I recently turned down a job in the EBSI. The pay was crap. If they want decent engineers they have to pay for it

Nelly23

From reading this thread and talking to collage mates I realise that in a few years time that been qualified to a Level 8 level (Honours Degree for me) just won’t cut it. I finished college May '07 and got lucky and had a job by October. I'm working in the steel industry where we would supply a lot of profiled plates, beams and such for the transport industry (M50, N7 etc) While I like my job and the industry I’m in, does it have a long term future... i.e. 15 years +?

Also as the OP asked, what part time courses are available that allows you to continue your job? Is there many part time masters courses that people would advice? I done my Degree in DCU and found it good but I certainly wouldn’t limit myself to just going back there.

godtabh

Nelly23 wrote: »

Also as the OP asked, what part time courses are available that allows you to continue your job? Is there many part time masters courses that people would advice? I done my Degree in DCU and found it good but I certainly wouldn’t limit myself to just going back there.

I'm doing a masters in Trinity. Its not what I expected and I think the standard is poor enough.

I think as you gain experience what level of degree you have shouldnt be an issue. Chances are you'll be upagainst some one of your owne generation (in that the finished college in and around the same time as you) and may or may not have a masters.

If on the other hand you finished college a year or two after the first Bologna students finished college then it would be more serious.

dinswins

folan wrote: »

Plus, we Irish seem to make great engineers which is in our favour and will hopefully bring more work from foreign investments in the coming years.

Explain your rationale for this statement. I'm not seeing it.

godtabh

dinswins wrote: »

Explain your rationale for this statement. I'm not seeing it.

Whats to explain?

When you have the likes of Intel and HP and Dell setting up major operations here its down to both the IDA and the skilled work force we have

fitzie79

thanks for all the replies so far. One person posted the esbi piece and whilst there are certainly going to be opportunities in this region it could be very regionalised. It seems that the days of major employment being announced in areas outside the greater dublin region are at an end, although this is probably a different issue to my original post.

godtabh

fitzie79 wrote: »

It seems that the days of major employment being announced in areas outside the greater dublin region are at an end, although this is probably a different issue to my original post.

I dont think that will be the case. As I've said before engineering focus will shift from building homes to infrastructure and out side of Dublin alot of work is required

DublinDilbert

kearnsr wrote: »

I dont think that will be the case. As I've said before engineering focus will shift from building homes to infrastructure and out side of Dublin alot of work is required

Provided there is the money to build infrastructure, what's that Dermot Ahern said last week about the recommendation that there is a new hospital built in Navan? "Not a red cent".... Now if that's not a vote of confidence in the economy of post Celtic tiger Ireland i don't know what is! :eek:

dinswins

kearnsr wrote: »

Whats to explain?

When you have the likes of Intel and HP and Dell setting up major operations here its down to both the IDA and the skilled work force we have

HP, Dell and Intel moved to Ireland because of US labour rates, US corporation taxes but principally because of US state, county and city taxes. The only reason IBM have moved alot of their engineering out of New York State is because of the tax requirements of Endicott, NY. Looking for somewhere to go, the IDA stepped in with their tax incentives and the rest is history. English speaking and taxes. The two main reasons.

godtabh

DublinDilbert wrote: »

Provided there is the money to build infrastructure, what's that Dermot Ahern said last week about the recommendation that there is a new hospital built in Navan? "Not a red cent".... Now if that's not a vote of confidence in the economy of post Celtic tiger Ireland i don't know what is! :eek:

Thats PPP come into play. There will be alot more of them in the future. As soon as contracts can be sorted (in the sense that they are fair to both sides) in can see these becoming more popular.

As an example of hospitals the HSE has a massive land bank. If they want that developed they will inter in to PPP. Only problem is that they are fussy

dinswins wrote: »

HP, Dell and Intel moved to Ireland because of US labour rates, US corporation taxes but principally because of US state, county and city taxes. The only reason IBM have moved alot of their engineering out of New York State is because of the tax requirements of Endicott, NY. Looking for somewhere to go, the IDA stepped in with their tax incentives and the rest is history. English speaking and taxes. The two main reasons.

At the minimum they need the a work force. If they dont have a skilled work force all the tax insentives in the world wont do them any good

DublinDilbert

kearnsr wrote: »

Thats PPP come into play. There will be alot more of them in the future. As soon as contracts can be sorted (in the sense that they are fair to both sides) in can see these becoming more popular.

I agree, there are many foreign companies like Hoctif ( i think i spelt that right ) springing up, doing ppp deals... although i wonder will these companies use irish architects or engineers? i guess they will have to use some...

godtabh

DublinDilbert wrote: »

I agree, there are many foreign companies like Hoctif ( i think i spelt that right ) springing up, doing ppp deals... although i wonder will these companies use irish architects or engineers? i guess they will have to use some...

Another company that comes to mind is Viola (who run the Luas but also do so so many other things) who use a lot of Irish engineers and Irish engineering companies.

DublinDilbert

kearnsr wrote: »

Another company that comes to mind is Viola (who run the Luas but also do so so many other things) who use a lot of Irish engineers and Irish engineering companies.

That's good...

I guess the one thing is that none of these ppp's are exporting anything its all internal, ie they are just committing the irish peoples money for the next X years.

So they are not going to bring any money into Ireland... I think there needs to be serious encouragement given to any companies developing products and services for export, to bring money in to Ireland.

The problem with the last 10 years of "boom" in Ireland, it's not been based on exporting anything, its been based on cheap credit coming into the country, with the global credit crunch this money tap has been turned off...

godtabh

DublinDilbert wrote: »

That's good...

I guess the one thing is that none of these ppp's are exporting anything its all internal, ie they are just committing the irish peoples money for the next X years.

So they are not going to bring any money into Ireland... I think there needs to be serious encouragement given to any companies developing products and services for export, to bring money in to Ireland.

The problem with the last 10 years of "boom" in Ireland, it's not been based on exporting anything, its been based on cheap credit coming into the country, with the global credit crunch this money tap has been turned off...

The way I look at is that these people are freeing up tax payers money building projects that the lads in the Dail can afford now. These projects charge a fee. These fees can lead to large profits for these companies and with corporation tax, vat etc at least some money goes back in to the country.

Mind you with my background I'm not sure if its that simple