Derren Brown

Setun

So what's the deal with this fellow? Is he a genius, a trickster, or both? Having watched the tv show a bit I have been amazed to the point of disbelief on numerous occasions. He seems the real deal but I can't believe that someone can have such incredible control over somebody else through hypnotism.


Here he is with Simon Pegg, great extract from his show:

bigslick

He is the real deal. But that depends on what u take the real deal to be. He uses a combination of suggestion and psychology to do most of his tricks. He doesnt use stooges or anything.

Unbelieveably talented!!!

Axwell

hes definitely the real deal,as big said most of his stuff is based on physchology and suggestion with some magic thrown in for good measure.Theres no hallucination involved in his act, if you watch back over that particular clip you can see how he suggests through the clip that simon pegg wants a bmx bike. Every sentence nearly has some reference to a bike, describing him being "pumped up", he says the word "bike" instead of "by", and he says bmx by combining xbox with other words "a car like a bm, or an xbox. Its very clever and only when you watch it again you can see it, his live show he did in the Albert Hall i think it was is amazing, you can get it on 4oD if you use that.

Setun

Yeah I know someone who saw him live in England and they were telling me about some of the stuff he was doing, and I just couldn't believe that he could predict some of the things that would happen.

I watched the zombie clip aswell, the one where he hypnotises some lad playing an arcade game in a pub, then brings him to a weird building that is built to mirror the game. The lad wakes up, and loads of actors playing zombies start coming after him. The poor lad is completely weirded out!

Axwell

Thats the thing tho he doesnt predict they are going to happen he forces people to make decisions through suggestion that make things act out the way he wanted. His live show that was on tv is very impressive and some of the effort he goes is fantastic. the episode he does on robbing a securicor van is brilliant how he manipluates the people by hearing a certain song and feeling impowered enough to attempt to rob a van full of money with a toy gun. Brilliant stuff

bigslick

Yeah, i saw him live and it was amazing!! he would look at a persons initials and how they were written and predict exactly what sex they were, their occupation and freakily their age (which was spot on every time!!)

I loved that zombie episode. that whole Trick or Treat series is great. I'd highly recommend 4OD (stands for channel 4 on demand) to anyone who wants to watch all his stuff.

Setun

bigslick wrote: »

Yeah, i saw him live and it was amazing!! he would look at a persons initials and how they were written and predict exactly what sex they were, their occupation and freakily their age (which was spot on every time!!)

I loved that zombie episode. that whole Trick or Treat series is great. I'd highly recommend 4OD (stands for channel 4 on demand) to anyone who wants to watch all his stuff.

Yeah, the initials thing, wtf!?! Just... how????

bigslick

Daddio wrote: »

Yeah, the initials thing, wtf!?! Just... how????

I have no idea man. But its kinda one of those things i dont wanna know how, if ya get me. just revel in the fact its amazing. like ive seen mentalists on stage before but he was the best ive ever seen.

azezil

heh totally doesn't work on me, I can hear what he's saying, afterwards I'm just left wondering, how can anyone fall for this!? ... but as I said in the hypnotism thread, hypnotism doesn't work on me

Voodu Child

Sorry to burst your bubbles lads....but seeing as this is a magic forum, i may as well let you in on the fact that Derren Brown is predominantly a magician. Explanations of mind control, psychology, hypnosis and subliminal messages (such as the bmx clip above) are misdirection.

Anybody with any kind of knowledge of magic/mentalism will recognize most of his effects straight away. Good presentation though, one of the better magicians of recent times.

Popinjay

As voodoo said, Derren mainly uses the principles of illusion. One or two of the effects he does are actually quite old and have been performed by a lot of people. Copperfield for example did a spirit table bit - the one where the table moves of it's own accord - and I've performed one or two of the classics myself onstage.

Setun

voodoo_child wrote: »

Sorry to burst your bubbles lads....but seeing as this is a magic forum, i may as well let you in on the fact that Derren Brown is predominantly a magician. Explanations of mind control, psychology, hypnosis and subliminal messages (such as the bmx clip above) are misdirection.

Anybody with any kind of knowledge of magic/mentalism will recognize most of his effects straight away. Good presentation though, one of the better magicians of recent times.

Can you give an example of some magic tricks he uses? Not give em away necessarily, but just how he uses them in his show or in his set?

I'm quite interested/freaked out by how he actually works his subjects!

Voodu Child

Daddio wrote: »

Can you give an example of some magic tricks he uses? Not give em away necessarily, but just how he uses them in his show or in his set?

Yeah sure. 'Subliminal advertising' (youtube it). He gives some guys a sealed envelope, they draw a picture, lo-and-behold, the envelope had the picture in it.

His presentation is fantastic, he spends time talking about advertising, 'shows' the guys how he implanted the ideas in there head, gives you the impression that there's some amazing psychology going on....that's the whole idea behind his stage persona.

But look at the basic effect - sealed envelope prediction. Enough said.

biko

Absolutely amazing guy!

JoseJones

yep, he's a magician, he uses tricks rather than hypnosis or psychology...he does use some suggestion etc. but only rarely is it actually the whole working of the trick. He's also been known to do a bit of pre show work. The whole suggestion/psychology thing is usually just the presentation of a trick, it's who his character is...he is a great card magician aswell, anyone who's seen his devils picture book will agree...

Dun laoire

I have seen derren brown on tv a few times and it can be good but this was utter nonsense. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=II_-QcW4Q4I&feature=related You cant fool a machine Derren :rolleyes:

r3nu4l

Here's a response to that video above, explaining how he 'tricks' her.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdMaZzL_a90

Very interesting but while some people would fall for it, I'm not sure many would!

Heisenberg.

This post has been deleted.

Loomis

The Scientist wrote: »

I lost respect for him after that cop out show 'The System'.
60 mins waiting for him to reveal how to pick winning horses and afterall that it was just a farce. For shame brown, for shame.

lol you're just annoyed you didn't get a lot for very little.
If you want that try the lotto.

r3nu4l

Daddio wrote: »

Here he is with Simon Pegg, great extract from his show:

If you listen to that video carefully you'll hear him say at one point "...by creating...". The way he pauses when saing that it sounds very like he is saying "bike~reating". Very clever.

Later of course he says, "...if you want a car...like a BM or an X-Box..." again putting the emphasis on "BM and X".

Very well done. I know some will say it's NLP, I prefer to call it 'sleight of tongue"

Stealdo

That dog track video is the first time I have seen something by Derren Brown and thought I'm certain it's a set up.

Knowing how tote betting works (at a horse track anyway, I assume it's the same) there's no way that this is possible. There are no 'odds' as such involved in a tote bet, the machines record all the money staked in a particular type of bet and divide it proportionally (minus their cut) between all the winning bets.
(e.g. if €1,000 is staked in all 'to win' bets on a race, and horse 3 wins having had €100 staked in win bets on it, each winner will receive €10 per €1 staked). This is calculated after the race has finished, not before and only for the winners.

Therefore the cashiers at the tote have no way of deciding how much could have been won by a losing ticket without doing some complicated calculations with information that they wouldn't have immediately available. The machines also tell them exactly how much to pay out on a winning ticket - they do not calculate these things themselves and therefore I just can't see the cashier doing something that is totally outside of her job at this meagre suggestion.

I don't think the bmx trick,has anything to do with Nlp or suggestion...Derren admits that he doesnt use Nlp and that its basically a load of rubbish..what you have to remember is that he's an accomplished pickpocket,so what probably happened is-he got his hands on Simon Peggs wallet-swapped the piece of paper,then filmed the bmx trick afterwards..

Axwell

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't think the bmx trick,has anything to do with Nlp or suggestion...Derren admits that he doesnt use Nlp and that its basically a load of rubbish..what you have to remember is that he's an accomplished pickpocket,so what probably happened is-he got his hands on Simon Peggs wallet-swapped the piece of paper,then filmed the bmx trick afterwards..

You have obviously never seen the show he did in the albert hall where throughout the program is dropping suggestions in the same manner he does saying BM or Xbox etc to get people to randomly pick the daily mail out 5 papers and then a certain page number, a certain paragraph, a certain line,right down to a specific word that he has written earlier in an envelope. While he doesnt use NLP he does use sugesstion. If you watched the video you would see Simon Pegg signed across the envelope seal so that it couldnt have been tampered with by anyone trying to swap the piece of paper. Derren Brown is not some guy with special mind power or anything, at the end of the day he is a magician but he uses suggestion and other pyschological tricks as part of his act.

Setun

Axwell wrote: »

You have obviously never seen the show he did in the albert hall where throughout the program is dropping suggestions in the same manner he does saying BM or Xbox etc to get people to randomly pick the daily mail out 5 papers and then a certain page number, a certain paragraph, a certain line,right down to a specific word that he has written earlier in an envelope. While he doesnt use NLP he does use sugesstion. If you watched the video you would see Simon Pegg signed across the envelope seal so that it couldnt have been tampered with by anyone trying to swap the piece of paper. Derren Brown is not some guy with special mind power or anything, at the end of the day he is a magician but he uses suggestion and other pyschological tricks as part of his act.

That's what I thought, but there's a few people now that have said that he doesn't use suggestion in his tricks. But I can't see how he'd do the tricks without it! Particularly some of the stuff in his live show.

zuroph

Axwell wrote: »

You have obviously never seen the show he did in the albert hall where throughout the program is dropping suggestions in the same manner he does saying BM or Xbox etc to get people to randomly pick the daily mail out 5 papers and then a certain page number, a certain paragraph, a certain line,right down to a specific word that he has written earlier in an envelope. While he doesnt use NLP he does use sugesstion. If you watched the video you would see Simon Pegg signed across the envelope seal so that it couldnt have been tampered with by anyone trying to swap the piece of paper. Derren Brown is not some guy with special mind power or anything, at the end of the day he is a magician but he uses suggestion and other pyschological tricks as part of his act.

and magicians cant get around that? :rolleyes:

The newspaper trick at the end of his last tour,has absolutely nothing to do with suggestion,it's a couple of great forces compiled together,it's Derren's presentation that hides it. Aso if I remember correctly he only mentioned Nlp once in the television series.

There was a part cut from the newspaper trick on the tv broadcast,which he did every night,just before being handed the clippings..he'd start making weird noises and say that the nail was starting to affect him now,from earlier.

At this point he pulls out a handkerchief and blows his nose,loading his hands with different pieces..then when the girl hands him the ripped pieces,he did a switch..Its absence is pretty noticeable on the Tv broadcast,but you can still see the switch.

Theres plenty of great examples of Derren doing simple magic tricks,but its his presentation that really elevates him,above the rest.

faceman

Brown is one of my favourite performers. He uses a mix of "magic" and psychology. He makes it clear though in his bigger shows how he works, he always selects those that he can influence.

The show he did on the heist was class. I also really liked his show where he gave "fortune teller" profiles on 3 separate groups of people

i didnt see the zombie one, must look it up. I did see one similar where he tricked someone into thinking they were dreaming when they weren't. Was gas!

6th

faceman wrote: »

i didnt see the zombie one, must look it up.

It was brilliant, though I would be paranoid about longer term affects.

Popinjay

Axwell wrote: »

...to get people to randomly pick the daily mail out 5 papers and then a certain page number, a certain paragraph, a certain line,right down to a specific word that he has written earlier in an envelope. While he doesnt use NLP he does use sugesstion. If you watched the video you would see Simon Pegg signed across the envelope seal so that it couldnt have been tampered with by anyone trying to swap the piece of paper...

I've done that one myself more than once and I can promise you I have absolutely no background in NLP. Derren might use NLP but realistically, what's the point when there are easier ways of doing everything.

faceman

6th wrote: »

It was brilliant, though I would be paranoid about longer term affects.

watched it yesterday, couldnt help but feel that the victims and his mates were pre arranged volunteers. not saying it was faked but his mates went along with it too easily.

The look on your mans face when he saw the zombies tho! Class!

horgan_p

personally i think andy nyman is one of the most clever prople in magic right now. the guy has kahunas on him his tricks are so clever and in your face and downright cheeky you think "no way will they fall for that".

derren is more the presentation side of andy's tricks.

Chinafoot

The episode of trick or treat with the pianist was fantastic. She really believed she couldn't play the piano. Oh and the one with the really bad driver that thinks she died in a car crash.

I could watch him all day. I don't care if it's illusion or psychology, he has a wonderful presentation style.

Bob the Builder

Has anyone read his book "tricks of the mind"? well worth 8euro. goes thru memory effects as well.

marvellous book, gives great insight into his effects. have a few of his EBooks, most of which i paid for, but a few which I got off friends.. about 100euro i out into it.

he's very down to earth in real life, interviews and his writings... admits he isn't pure leather, but rather a very well polished shoe... I admire him very much...

whilst looking at what he does, always remember there's a method in the background behind wat he does...

robbingood

did u see the one where he collected money at the dogs wit d losing docket.why does he bother working he shud just do that full time

Dun laoire

r3nu4l wrote: »

Here's a response to that video above, explaining how he 'tricks' her.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdMaZzL_a90

Very interesting but while some people would fall for it, I'm not sure many would!

I didnt bother watching how he tricked her because i'm 100% sure it was set up. The tote is computerised. It would have said LOSS on his ticket when it was scanned. You cant trick the machine i'm afraid. Nonsense Derren nonsense and as for that whole pyrimid horse racing muck that somehow got onto t.v??? What a complete and utter joke.

pH

Dun laoire wrote: »

I didnt bother watching how he tricked her because i'm 100% sure it was set up. The tote is computerised. It would have said LOSS on his ticket when it was scanned. You cant trick the machine i'm afraid. Nonsense Derren nonsense and as for that whole pyrimid horse racing muck that somehow got onto t.v??? What a complete and utter joke.

It is 100% not a setup, though that guy on youtube who thinks that Derren can do really do Jedi mind tricks should probably get out more.

It's a *magic trick* this one uses sleight of hand, who'd have though that a magician would do something like that!

What I fail to understand is why Derren brown always invokes this response. When we see a magician cut a woman in half we know he didn't really cut the woman in half even if we don't know how he achieved the illusion. We know we saw an illusion, where we appeared to see a woman chopped in half, we don't look for an explanation of the trick in what medical advances must have been needed to put her back together.

It's the same with Derren, he showed us an ILLUSION where we think we saw a teller pay out on a losing ticket. This doesn't mean that the teller DID pay out on a losing ticket (in the same way as a woman isn't really just in half), just that Derren made US think that she did.

The person being tricked in the dog track scene isn't the teller, it's us! Yes the trick would be trivial if it was a total setup or she was a stooge, but it's perfectly possible to present what we saw in that trick using just sleight of hand without needing her to be in on it or having real Jedi mind powers like mr youtube believes.

Popinjay

^^^^What he said.

???

Yeah Derren's work is 99.99% tricks, 0.01% real psychology! The Amazing Randi has actually said that he loves Derren's shows and performances but wishs he didn't promote so much pseudoscience!!!

My opinion on why people instantly accuse Derren of using stooges and don't complain when someone is sawn in half is that what Derren does scares us. Derren seems to skirt on the realms of possibility, there's always that maybe maybe what he does has some truth to it and the thought that someone could control us like that is horrifying! A lot of his effects seem to be unaccomplishable by 'normal' methods and if you have no experiencewith what he really uses you would understandebly be baffled and given his persona it is easy to thing what he either does is really or that he uses stooges. And the idea of stooges make sleeping easier!

ShooterSF

I think the point of "The system" episode was to show people's ability (albeit negative) to develop a belief system without truly questioning it and willing to do anything when put in the context of said system. Its almost like pre-hypnosis. Instead of hypnotising people to bypass their critical sensor (think thats what its called) to affect peoples beliefs to make them more open to suggestion he simply installed a belief in the system and (without any questioning) she was willing to risk a huge sum of money on his system. Rather scary actually if you watch it as a pyschological experiment rather than a magic show.

???

It was a psychological experiment. People were just dissapointed cause they expected a magic show!!!

Kooli

??? wrote: »

My opinion on why people instantly accuse Derren of using stooges and don't complain when someone is sawn in half is that what Derren does scares us. Derren seems to skirt on the realms of possibility, there's always that maybe maybe what he does has some truth to it and the thought that someone could control us like that is horrifying! A lot of his effects seem to be unaccomplishable by 'normal' methods and if you have no experiencewith what he really uses you would understandebly be baffled and given his persona it is easy to thing what he either does is really or that he uses stooges. And the idea of stooges make sleeping easier!

Nope. I think the only reason people accuse Derren of using stooges is because they believe what he says that his tricks are based on psychology and suggestion. This makes them seem amazing and unbelievable. If he just admitted they were magic tricks - plain, traditional magic tricks - then it would be like the guy sawing the woman in half - we'd just say 'oh that's cool' and not try to figure it out.

It's just magic and illusions, NO NLP or psychology, and he distracts from the very basic magic by pretending to be using the power of the mind.

zuroph

in that sense, i think derren is the closest current magician who echoes back to the classic stage shows. Back then, people may have thought magic was real. stage shows and magicians were spectacles that people were scared of and in awe of. There was a beautiful level of respect for the magician. Whereas nowadays most people know there is plain old trickery involved, Derren brings the public back to that strange feeling of doubt, they're properly tricked into the illusion.

6th

He has a show on tonight on Channel4 I think.

r3nu4l

zuroph wrote: »

in that sense, i think derren is the closest current magician who echoes back to the classic stage shows. Back then, people may have thought magic was real. stage shows and magicians were spectacles that people were scared of and in awe of. There was a beautiful level of respect for the magician. Whereas nowadays most people know there is plain old trickery involved, Derren brings the public back to that strange feeling of doubt, they're properly tricked into the illusion.

Excellent point, well made! The fact that people have posted 'plausible explanations' online is testament to this.

Mena

Sabotage wrote: »

He has a show on tonight on Channel4 I think.

I just finsished watching that, it was amazing.

MooseJam

guys, whats nlp

6th

Neuro Linguistic Programming.

zuroph

http://www.oxygen.ie/page/1529

Syke

I'm fairly sure that alot of Browns stuff is setup, not all of it mind, but some of the more complex tricks.

His psychology is slightly exaggerated but the principle is usually sound.

faceman

MooseJam wrote: »

guys, whats nlp

6th wrote: »

Neuro Linguistic Programming.

Brainwashing!

From the other thread.

Maybe hes always been psychic himself but instead of taking the role of a psychic hes decided to turn his back the other way and take the pee outv of it. I often wondered watching him,is he just in denial or what.couldv had bad experiences or been ridiculed about it.just my thoughts.

Derren Brown: Closet Psychic?
Anyone else find this to be on the very silly side of ridiculous?

Reminds me of that bit in Life of Brian.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=krb2OdQksMc

"Only the true messiah denies his divinity."
"Well what sort of chance does that give me!?"



(Goddamnit, I love it when I get to use Monty Python to make a point.)