Plus 1 joule concern

Crave

Ok this has been bugging me for awhile and nothing seems to be done about it as far as i know. I know every AEG gets chronoed for 328 fps etc. but does anyone ever check the weight of the bb's being used? Surely someone could easily use different bb's.Making them 328 fps but a higher energy. How is this issue being dealth with. I don't want to be playing with Hot AEGs.

o1s1n

Crave wrote: »

Ok this has been bugging me for awhile and nothing seems to be done about it as far as i know. I know every AEG gets chronoed for 328 fps etc. but does anyone ever check the weight of the bb's being used? Surely someone could easily use different bb's.Making them 328 fps but a higher energy. How is this issue being dealth with. I don't want to be playing with Hot AEGs.

'Every AEG gets chronoed'?

Where? What are you talking about? A specific skirmish site? A bit more info is needed.

kdouglas

Given that we all play a game based on honour, I hope that everyone would be honest enough to use 0.2g bbs in their aeg when chrono'ing or at least inform the chrono operator that they are using heavier weight bbs so they can compensate for it.

However, it is a fairly simple matter for the person that's carrying out the chrono'ing to put a couple of 0.2g bbs into a mag for chrono'ing.

Lemming

kdouglas wrote: »

Given that we all play a game based on honour, I hope that everyone would be honest enough to use 0.2g bbs in their aeg when chrono'ing or at least inform the chrono operator that they are using heavier weight bbs so they can compensate for it.

However, it is a fairly simple matter for the person that's carrying out the chrono'ing to put a couple of 0.2g bbs into a mag for chrono'ing.

I declare that I'm using .25g BBs. Only takes a second to change the chronograph for a heavier weight (and vice versa) so there's no reason not to say it.

o1s1n

Crave wrote: »

Surely someone could easily use different bb's.Making them 328 fps but a higher energy. How is this issue being dealth with. I don't want to be playing with Hot AEGs.

After reading that again, it seems like you think that if someone puts heavier bbs in an AEG chronoing at 328fps with a .2g that it's suddenly going to go over 1 joule?

That is certainly not the case. The fps of the rifle will lower if the weight of the bb is higher. It'll still be 1 joule.

Shiva

o1s1n wrote: »

After reading that again, it seems like you think that if someone puts heavier bbs in an AEG chronoing at 328fps with a .2g that it's suddenly going to go over 1 joule?

No, I think he means that someone could easily load up with .28g BBs, get chronoed at 320 fps and go off and have fun with their overpowered gun.
That occurred to me before too, truth to tell.

ED E

o1s1n wrote: »

After reading that again, it seems like you think that if someone puts heavier bbs in an AEG chronoing at 328fps with a .2g that it's suddenly going to go over 1 joule?

That is certainly not the case. The fps of the rifle will lower if the weight of the bb is higher. It'll still be 1 joule.

No, I think he means cronoing using .2 for the calc but actually shooting .25s ect.

Masada

nah he means that the chrono might sat its doing 328 and look legal but the BBs might be the heavier ones meaning the gun would really fire at about 350 or what not with .2s.,

Lemming

Lethal_Bullet wrote: »

No, I think he means cronoing using .2 for the calc but actually shooting .25s ect.

Errrr .... if you chrono at < 329fps with .2, loading up with .23/25/28/etc. != hot AEG. You'll end up firing circa 290fps

o1s1n

Shiva wrote: »

No, I think he means that someone could easily load up with .28g BBs, get chronoed at 320 fps and go off and have fun with their overpowered gun.
That occurred to me before too, truth to tell.

Lethal_Bullet wrote: »

No, I think he means cronoing using .2 for the calc but actually shooting .25s ect.

Well then why can't they just set the chronographs to output in joules rather than FPS?

Lemming

vtec wrote: »

nah he means that the chrono might sat its doing 328 and look legal but the BBs might be the heavier ones meaning the gun would really fire at about 350 or what not with .2s.,

I guess the easiest way to get around that is to ask each player what weight BBs they're using before chrono. Pain in the arse being asked repeatedly, but if people are that worried that others may "cheat" then that's what needs done I guess.

That said, almost everyone uses .20g BBs, so you'd really need to be going out of your way to cheat. Most entry level folks will use .20g, and afaik most players with some level of experience use .20g as well. So you'd need to knowingly be at it (and that would imply yoiu're a right pr1ck for doing so too)

ED E

The HRTA chrono is set to display fps right. If you just stick the chart to the tripop then the fps is read, the bb weight asked, the chart read and verdict given. Job done.

Shiva

o1s1n wrote: »

Well then why can't they just set the chronographs to output in joules rather than FPS?

'Cos the chrono still has to be configured for the weight of the BBs. Lemming is right....player should be asked what weight they're using.

Crave

just wondering if it's a big concern for people?

Masada

not really., we an honset bunch, mostly.,

o1s1n

Crave wrote: »

just wondering if it's a big concern for people?

I didn't think people would be dishonest enough to do that. Maybe that's just me being overly nieve.

Crave

I mean say someone got some .25 bb's and forgot to mention it, it gets chronoged at 328fps, that would make it about 1.24J(ie. a firearm). I don't wanna get shot with one of those. I just think we need to be a bit more careful with testing etc. Just to set a high standard, not because we think it will happen but just in case it did, we would know about it.

Masada

that person would have to know that the gun was hot to begin with tough., and its up to them to be honest about it.,

MAD Ozzie

At CTG all AEG's are chronoed with a .20bb ( our .20bbs ) we dont take risks or any crap.
If your AEG is hot you will be given a straw to play with or sent home. That simple.
1 or 2 out of 10 are chronoed hot, mostly the cheep crap brands come in a bit over and are not alloud to be used on site. All AEG's that pass are marked with a white band and the marshals keep an eye on em, 1 marshal to every 15 players or per team. We run a tight ship in Cork.

romperstomper

out of curiousity how much discretion is given here? the garda allow 10% over the limit in speeding cases (ie you will not be cahrged with speeding for doing 51Km/h in a 50Km/h zone). just thinking that it sounds ridiculous to call an aeg a toy @ 327fps but @ 330 its a firearm. no doubt the holy joes and the rest of the holythanthou brigade revel in it though.

Masada

romperstomper wrote: »

out of curiousity how much discretion is given here? the garda allow 10% over the limit in speeding cases (ie you will not be cahrged with speeding for doing 51Km/h in a 50Km/h zone). just thinking that it sounds ridiculous to call an aeg a toy @ 327fps but @ 330 its a firearm. no doubt the holy joes and the rest of the holythanthou brigade revel in it though.

theres no leaway with the firearms low though, the reason they have it for speeding it because a cars speedo is never 100% accurate, it'll always be out by a small bit and especially if the car has aftermarket wheels fitted., so in theory they cant do ya if you were driving off your clock and were slightly over the limit.,

MAD Ozzie

romperstomper wrote: »

out of curiousity how much discretion is given here? the garda allow 10% over the limit in speeding cases (ie you will not be cahrged with speeding for doing 51Km/h in a 50Km/h zone). just thinking that it sounds ridiculous to call an aeg a toy @ 327fps but @ 330 its a firearm. no doubt the holy joes and the rest of the holythanthou brigade revel in it though.

Good question.
We work on an average over 8-10 shots but must stick to the law, so its 328fps.
Any one else care to explain this ? Maby where to tuff, but when the garda or our insurance calls over thay wont except anything over the legal limit will thay,? and who's in the poo then.

romperstomper

thats what i'm saying. there should be input from local gards or whoever inpects airsoft sights to say what they would consider unacceptable. others here preach about 'mandaotry sentencing' and other crap get pouted out. In reality we buy guns from manufactors and if they are SLIGHTLY outside tolerances they will be 1.001J. I would like to hear how that is treated. IMO its certainly within reason. Now do the gards (or whoever) have discretion or not on this issue? In my own experience they have dicretion over everything else. and what about the sites themselves? where do they stand? 330fps and their insurance is invalid? that doesn't sound correct to me

o1s1n

MAD Ozzie wrote: »

Good question.
We work on an average over 8-10 shots but must stick to the law, so its 328fps.
Any one else care to explain this ? Maby where to tuff, but when the garda or our insurance calls over thay wont except anything over the legal limit will thay,? and who's in the poo then.

You cant really work it on averages. If some of the shots are going over 1 joule then it is a firearm. Because there is no airsoft specific legislation, anything even a fraction over is considered such.

Ive heard of a few people having items destroyed by customs and they were "just a little over". If just a little over = destruction, then you can guess theres more or less no leeway.

You cant bring a car and speeding comparison into it as cars are governed by very specific laws. All airsoft has is 1 joule.

romperstomper

if thats the case then what you are saying do not apply. if 1.001J IS a firearm then anyone importing one intot he country would be subject to mandatory sentencing laws in this country for illegal possession of a firearm. if, on the other hand, there is no legislation to deal with it (or discretion) then they may simply destroy/seize on site (as you imply they are doing).

you can't have it both ways though. either its above 1J and thus considered a firearm and the person in possession should be arrested and charged with illegal possession of a firearm OR its still not a firearm even @ 1.1J just a banned item and will be confiscated and destroyed.

on a related note, what about stuff like flash-bangs. are they considered firearms? or pyro-technics or what?

o1s1n

romperstomper wrote: »

thats what i'm saying. there should be input from local gards or whoever inpects airsoft sights to say what they would consider unacceptable.

They would consider anything over 1 joule unacceptable. Or at least the law states they should. Gardaí are just people in the end. Firearms supers have differing opinions all over the country. Some places you'd be waiting a hell of a lot longer for a cert than some others. Some won't even grant permission for certain firearms.

You're better off going by what the law says. Which is 1 joule. Just make sure absolutely none of your shots go over that. It's not that hard to do. You don't have to be bang on 328fps to get a hit.

romperstomper wrote:

others here preach about 'mandaotry sentencing' and other crap get pouted out.

Crap? It's the law. I doubt a judge is going to send you to prison for 10 years for having something that shoots slightly over 1 joule, but it is currently written into the law as a possibility. Sentencing aside, your gear would still be destroyed.

romperstomper wrote:

In reality we buy guns from manufactors and if they are SLIGHTLY outside tolerances they will be 1.001J. I would like to hear how that is treated.

You'll have to remember, airsoft is still really new here. We'd all like to hear how that is treated. Problem is, maybe a situation hasn't arisen yet where it has been needed to? As far as I can see, the Gardaí will destroy anything over 1 joule, anything under is fine. That's it. There is no further clarification.

romperstomper wrote:

In my own experience they have dicretion over everything else.

That's because 'everything else' has been around a lot longer than airsoft. Again, it's new. There is nothing in law stating how they should deal with it (Unless of course someone is brandishing it as a weapon, but that's a different thing completely)

romperstomper wrote:

and what about the sites themselves? where do they stand? 330fps and their insurance is invalid? that doesn't sound correct to me

I have one word for you...paintball

MAD Ozzie

o1s1n wrote: »

You cant really work it on averages. If some of the shots are going over 1 joule then it is a firearm. Because there is no airsoft specific legislation, anything even a fraction over is considered such.

Ive heard of a few people having items destroyed by customs and they were "just a little over". If just a little over = destruction, then you can guess theres more or less no leeway.

You cant bring a car and speeding comparison into it as cars are governed by very specific laws. All airsoft has is 1 joule.

This is true, but some shots may be say, 328fps and the next is 325 and 327 and 324 & 326 so give or take over 10 shots and thats how we do it, if its 329 & 331 & 330 & 332 and so on, its over and hot. Not every reading is the same all the time, even with the best chrono. Balisticks is done in the same way with real firearms as powder count is never the same in every round. So with no other guide lines other than 1 jule, thats how we do it.
If its over in the first 1-2 shots its hot. and hop up must be off.
Is there a better way??

Leidenfrost

romperstomper wrote: »

on a related note, what about stuff like flash-bangs. are they considered firearms? or pyro-technics or what?

To the best of my knowledge they are considered as, like the hazmat standard, 1.3 (or 1.4)C (or D) low order explosives.

They are not legal (without proper documentation e.g a Blasting license etc.) whatsoever in the Republic of Ireland.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HAZMAT_Class_1_Explosives

I think it is slightly ironic that people may fret about fellow members of a skirmish operating ''firearms'' slightly over the 1 joule limit (bear in mind a 2 J + impact is necessary to reliably break the skin) but don't really consider the much greater hazard and possible loss of life that can occur if a ''flash bang'' (a confined Flash powder or in some cases black powder device) is thrown around the place...not to mention possession of such devices probably warrant a larger sentence/fine for the operator than possession of a firearm.

o1s1n

MAD Ozzie wrote: »

This is true, but some shots may be say, 328fps and the next is 325 and 327 and 324 & 326 so give or take over 10 shots and thats how we do it, if its 329 & 331 & 330 & 332 and so on, its over and hot.
Not every reading is the same all the time, even with the best chrono. Balisticks is done in the same way with real firearms as powder count is never the same in every round. So with no other guide lines other than 1 jule, thats how we do it.
If its over in the first 1-2 shots its hot. and hop up must be off.
Is there a better way??

Thats what I was hoping you did.

When you said average, I thought you might have meant finding the middle number out of a mix that were just under and just over.

As long as none of the shots are going over at all then it should be fine.

I think what some people need to realize is that 1 joule wasnt written into law for the benefit of airsoft.

It was just something that worked to our favour when it was decided that a minimum number must be set in law for something to be considered a firearm.

Therefore that means there isnt going to be any leeway with that number until theres some specific law written to cover airsoft products.

MAD Ozzie

Spot on.
The max average limit is 328fps and thats it, not over at ALL.
If an AEG fires at 329 & 327 & 329 its still over and will not be used on my site at all.
I will not take a risk for 20euro, or even for a mate, or put the players at risk in any way.

All for the greater good of the sport.

o1s1n

romperstomper wrote: »

if thats the case then what you are saying do not apply. if 1.001J IS a firearm then anyone importing one intot he country would be subject to mandatory sentencing laws in this country for illegal possession of a firearm. if, on the other hand, there is no legislation to deal with it (or discretion) then they may simply destroy/seize on site (as you imply they are doing).

you can't have it both ways though. either its above 1J and thus considered a firearm and the person in possession should be arrested and charged with illegal possession of a firearm OR its still not a firearm even @ 1.1J just a banned item and will be confiscated and destroyed.

on a related note, what about stuff like flash-bangs. are they considered firearms? or pyro-technics or what?

The law states:

"Firearm means"---

An air gun (including an air rifle or an air pistol) with a muzzle energy greater than one joule or any other weapon incorporating a barrel from which any projectile can be discharged with such a muzzle energy.

This to me states simply that an airsoft rifle with a capacity of more than 1 joule is legally considered a firearm. As 1.001j is greater than 1.000j, it is considered such. Nobody has contested this in court yet, so we dont know if there is a possibility of leeway. I doubt anyone wants to end up in court over possible firearms charges though, so it would be in everyones best interest to play that one on the safe side.

If tomorrow you try to import an air rifle (As in a 9j lead pellet projectile), it will more than likely be seized by customs and either destroyed or they will wait until you can supply them with a FAC. Will you be sent to prison for 10 years? I wouldnt imagine so. But its still possible under the current law in the same way its possible with any +1j airsoft.

As for flashbangs, all I know is any type of firework is restricted in Ireland and illegal to own without a specific license.

Leidenfrost wrote: »

I think it is slightly ironic that people may fret about fellow members of a skirmish operating ''firearms'' slightly over the 1 joule limit (bear in mind a 2 J + impact is necessary to reliably break the skin) but don't really consider the much greater hazard and possible loss of life that can occur if a ''flash bang'' (a confined Flash powder or in some cases black powder device) is thrown around the place...not to mention possession of such devices probably warrant a larger sentence/fine for the operator than possession of a firearm.

No sites in the Republic use flashbangs due to their legal status here. And I am pretty sure most airsofters would be against someone using something like that on them.

Leidenfrost

o1s1n wrote: »

As for flashbangs, all I know is any type of firework is restricted in Ireland and illegal to own without a specific license.



No sites in the Republic use flashbangs due to their legal status here. And I am pretty sure most airsofters would be against someone using something like that on them.

I've been to more than one that have.

Gatling

what ye gone and started.


never heard of flash bangs being used on any site here ,

i know regular players on all the sites , i smell a troll

Hivemind187

<snip! already said>

Puding

Its mad to me that everyone is not tested when they turn up at a site, at ctg we had 6 - 8 aegs come in at >1j (we are talking a little and a lot over the limit hear) and these where brought domestically and abroad. CTG ended up having to turn a number of people away due to this.

Edit: i believe the police wait for testing is 0.2g so go with that for any testing, airsoft is a short of 'honor' but we are dealing with a powder keg of a sport that is open from attack from all sides so its up to us and site to go out of are way to check everything and make 100% that everything is above board, trusting someones 'hour; that something is <1j is no good when they buy from Ireland believe it to be <1j turn up to a site and its >1j, makes me wonder how many like that are floating around no knowing what there aeg is putting out.

Boston

Theres no leeway with speeding or with airsoft. The 10% defense is to do with the accuracy of the measurement equipment. The Gardi radar gun is a one off measurement of your velocity and is open to error, so they make sure you're doing at least 10% over the limit to negate the effects of random sampling. With an airsoft gun you can calibrate the device to a know velocity of a projectile and then take averages, as stated already, to determine the most likely speed. You'd probably still be able to argue inaccuracies in the measure techniques used if you ever ended up in front of a judge, however your airsoft rifle would long be destroyed at that stage.

kevteljeur

I had a very slightly hot AEG at HRTA the other week, the AEG was tested and found to be hot (1.3J or thereabouts), spring replaced shortly after by one of the kindly regulars, AEG re-tested and found to be fine. I didn't get any slack because it was only a little bit over, and I'm fine with that. A rule's a rule.

To my mind the real issue here is the perception of 1J as a target to be aimed for rather than a hard limit. If there was a degree of latitude, then it's not a hard limit any more, and it becomes a lot more like the speed limit in this country; how much over is too much over? Then you'll get people kicking up a fuss because their kit was only .3J over while someone else's was .27J over the limit. Someone needs to start evangelising that idea, if it's not too late - your AEG should be .95 to .97J and no more...

The honour thing isn't really too safe either, in that some people just wouldn't like to have the hassle, not from maliciousness. Come on, who hasn't been over the speed limit while driving to get to where you're going that little bit faster?

Names ommitted to protect those involved, but you know who you are

Boston

30% over is pretty significant.

Alvin T. Grey

romperstomper wrote: »

if thats the case then what you are saying do not apply. if 1.001J IS a firearm then anyone importing one intot he country would be subject to mandatory sentencing laws in this country for illegal possession of a firearm.

Why? He/She (yes there are females in airsoft) ordered a toy. It's not their fault the company shipped a gun.

Crave

Good to hear that cork are doing it right! All AEGs should be tested and the sites bb's used. Good Work!

Gyle

I think all AEG's are ordered in good faith if it says less than 1j on the box/web site a buyer has fulfilled his legal obligation at that stage. With regards to tolerance I have had a number of items held, tested and passed by ballistics over the past few months and the garda have been very helpful with explaining their procedures. A maximum tolerance of the final muzzle velocity reading is ±10% due to a number of variables
1) 0.2g perfect BB,s ±5%max.
2) AEG springs are not a perfect science ±15% due to temperature, atmosphere and material used(steel s/steel or alloy)(state of storage compression of spring is also a factor)
3) chorographs. ±10% depending on model/type being used and some are outputing a calculated result not a raw reading.

Tigger

romperstomper wrote: »

out of curiousity how much discretion is given here? the garda allow 10% over the limit in speeding cases (ie you will not be cahrged with speeding for doing 51Km/h in a 50Km/h zone). just thinking that it sounds ridiculous to call an aeg a toy @ 327fps but @ 330 its a firearm. no doubt the holy joes and the rest of the holythanthou brigade revel in it though.

the garda do not all oe 10 % yer speedo allows about -10%
i'm certain about this because
1 my sta nav gps thingfs reads about 10% lo9wer than my speedo
2 i';ve seen tickets for 54 in a 50

100m/s (the metric of 238fps) with a .2g is the limit not any guideline
if you wr4e caugyt you could say it meandered above 1joule and if it was close you'd be given the benifit of the doubt

but

the formulae is 1/2mv2

so 0.5*(mass in kilos)0.0002kg*(velocity in m/s)100*(velocity in m/s)=1

but increase the speed by 10% and this happens

0.5*.0002*110*110=1.21

another 5%

=1.32

its not logical but a line has to be drawn; speed limit is the same in wet or dry in light or dark but tyhere is a line above which you are breaking the law

garda discretion is a very strong factor in traffic cases i've been chatted to for doing 110mph by a very nice bike garda who appriciated that i was just bla sting the cobwebs off and as i said i saw a mates ticket for 54 in a 50

but if a garda sends the aeg for chronoing you are already on a slippery slope

Tigger

Gyle wrote: »

I think all AEG's are ordered in good faith if it says less than 1j on the box/web site a buyer has fulfilled his legal obligation at that stage. With regards to tolerance I have had a number of items held, tested and passed by ballistics over the past few months and the garda have been very helpful with explaining their procedures. A maximum tolerance of the final muzzle velocity reading is ±10% due to a number of variables
1) 0.2g perfect BB,s ±5%max.
2) AEG springs are not a perfect science ±15% due to temperature, atmosphere and material used(steel s/steel or alloy)(state of storage compression of spring is also a factor)
3) chorographs. ±10% depending on model/type being used and some are outputing a calculated result not a raw reading.

thats good to hear
is that +/- on the joule or on the fps

mcgovern

MAD Ozzie wrote: »

Spot on.
The max average limit is 328fps and thats it, not over at ALL.
If an AEG fires at 329 & 327 & 329 its still over and will not be used on my site at all.
I will not take a risk for 20euro, or even for a mate, or put the players at risk in any way.

All for the greater good of the sport.

Just as a matter of interest, if it chrono's at 327 & 329 & 327 do you allow it?
Because that is going to be classified as a firearm as I understand it...

Masada

Boston wrote: »

You'd probably still be able to argue inaccuracies in the measure techniques used if you ever ended up in front of a judge, however your airsoft rifle would long be destroyed at that stage.

if it got to the stage where you ended up in court then the gun would have to be presented as evidence though, they wouldnt have a case against you if they said, "oh it was illegal judge, but you'll have t take our word for it coz we squashed it".


as far as the leaway from the cops goes, a lot of people forget that the cops are just the ones who inforce the law, its not up to them weather to judge whats legal and whats not., in certain circumstances though they will choose not to persue something based on it being petty and likely to be thrown out of court, or slap on the wrist kinda thing., in that situation there is no scale on "how illegal" it has to be to be prosacuted its the circumstances of the crime that come into judgment.,
easy solution is, stay around the 290-300 mark and you'll be grand., realistically a few FPS extra dont make much of a difference., its how ya use it rather than how powerful it is that will make the difference between winning and loosing.,

MAD Ozzie

mcgovern wrote: »

Just as a matter of interest, if it chrono's at 327 & 329 & 327 do you allow it?
Because that is going to be classified as a firearm as I understand it...

No I will not allow it to be used on my site. All AEG should be under the limit,
not just on, or even verry close, thers no "AR SURE IT'LL BE GRAND" here.
As I said befour I dont take chances or risks.

Spetzcong

I know the last time I was getting something chronoed Hive was there to witness the chronoing and the first question he asked me was to confirm I was using 0.2 g bbs. I think there has to be an element of trust in these things, I mean otherwise we'd be emptying out mags and weighing the bbs people are using before chronoing and god knows what else.

Personally I'd be happy to play with AEGs up to 350 fps, and snipers etc. up 450 fps with minimum engagement rules, but that's not what the law allows us to do in this country and I'd rather see us stay within the legal limits than see the sport banned completely again over a few measly fps, which is probably what would happen if people started ignoring the law and playing with illegal firearms.

Mistakes can happen both in terms of ordering from abroad and ordering domestically, I don't think there should be any penalties for someone who in good faith bought something that they though was legal which subsequently turned out to be hot, people who deliberately try to flout the 1j legislation however are putting the whole sport at risk, and should be dealt with in the harshest manner to discourage others from trying the same thing.

kdouglas

Gyle wrote: »

I think all AEG's are ordered in good faith if it says less than 1j on the box/web site a buyer has fulfilled his legal obligation at that stage. With regards to tolerance I have had a number of items held, tested and passed by ballistics over the past few months and the garda have been very helpful with explaining their procedures. A maximum tolerance of the final muzzle velocity reading is ±10% due to a number of variables
1) 0.2g perfect BB,s ±5%max.
2) AEG springs are not a perfect science ±15% due to temperature, atmosphere and material used(steel s/steel or alloy)(state of storage compression of spring is also a factor)
3) chorographs. ±10% depending on model/type being used and some are outputing a calculated result not a raw reading.

that's good to know, but if someone were to have an aeg that was 10% over ended up in court for it, im pretty sure a defence of "But the guy online said you allow a 10% leeway" isn't going to be stand up.
As it stands the law states 1 Joule without any leeway, whatever allowances the testing procedure has for inaccuracies/inconsistencies cannot be relied on and therefore cant be used as justification for using something that fires over 1 joule

Edit: I know you wouldn't, but pointing it out for the benefit of other's reading the thread

kdouglas

Spetzcong wrote: »

Mistakes can happen both in terms of ordering from abroad and ordering domestically, I don't think there should be any penalties for someone who in good faith bought something that they though was legal which subsequently turned out to be hot, people who deliberately try to flout the 1j legislation however are putting the whole sport at risk, and should be dealt with in the harshest manner to discourage others from trying the same thing.

agreed

Stercus Accidit

We're lucky to begin with that the law allowed the firearms definition to exclude sub 1 joule devices.

1 joule is a limit, if you go over it you are back to the bad 'ol days where you can be prosecuted and severely punished.

A firearm is a firearm is a 1j+ device, and it may as well be a real ak47 when you are being charged.

Ideally, some tolerance of energy would exist, but fcuk 10 years for the sake of a toy, I wont risk it.

CrazyRabbit

So much speculation in one thread. Seems like something the IAA needs to contact the DoJ about.

Questions I would like to see official answers to:

1. Is there any tolerence given when determining the energy output of an AEG?

2. If a person buys an AEG with the reasonable belief that it is under 1 joule, are they liable for prosecution should the AEG turn out to be above this limit? (the retailer advertised it as <1j)

3. What would be the legal min/max prison sentence/fine/punishment for criminal misuse of an AEG, and specifically in relation to an AEG that was fractionally above the 1 joule limit (as can happen due to temperature changes etc)

4. What legal obligation do Irish retailers have for ensuring that the AEG's they sell are below the legal limit?

5. If someone buys an airsoft gun with the belief that it is under 1 joule, and it turns out to be above this limit, what leeway do they have timewise to 'downgrade' it?