Responding to Station

MrDylan

When retained fire fighters/ ambulance crews are responding to their station for a call out do they use any identity on their cars to let other users know they are responding to a call. If so does it help at in terms of getting to the station quicker (goes without saying, while obeying traffic laws at same time).

Am sure a quicker but safe response by crews to their station could have the potential to save someone at an incident like heart attack or someone trapped in house fire.

ScubaDave

99% of crews do not! i know of one or twos stations that the crews are permitted by the local super to use red mag mount lights for there cars but thats it.

Dont know where the insurance company would stand on them using the lights though!

MrDylan

Yea can imagine any sort of flashing light on the roof are illegal to use for anyone except emergency cars. However am sure putting a FIRE sign on your roof comes into one of those grey areas that the likes of Driving Instructors or Pizza Delivery People are in.

Just think other drivers might be cooperative if they were aware of a driver responding to a call and once its all within the traffic laws and its not abused that can only be good for a quicker response time.

ScubaDave

As long as its a steady white light to the front and steady red light to the rear of the roof signage its alright! (I am open to correction on this!)

Random

Lads can you explain what you mean by "responding to station"? Is this if you're off duty or something and called in for a big emergency or unforseen event that needs immediate response?

civdef

The OP mentions retained firefighters, i.e. those providing cover for pretty much all of the country outside the cities. These are part-time firefighters, responding from their work or homes when their bleeper goes off, providing cover 24/7.

Random

Oh right ... and I thought every station was manned by a full time crew with part timers only for the big emergencys and what not.

You learn something every day!

Sierra Oscar

random wrote: »

Oh right ... and I thought every station was manned by a full time crew with part timers only for the big emergencys and what not.

You learn something every day!

God no - many of the stations in rural/small towns around the country are staffed only by retained firemen. Of course each district will always be over seen by a 24/7 station as far as I am aware.

eve

Friend of mine works as a retained fire fighter in Kildare. He has a plasitce 'FIRE' sign (not backlit) attached to his passenger visor that he flips down when he's on his way to the station to respond to a call.

Eru

Its illegal to have any kind of light fixed to your vehicle regardless of colour or where its attached. Even KITT was illegal!

Orange is used for maintenance / commercial vehicles purely for visibility and do not allow the user any additional rights or exemptions from road traffic law.

Blue / red / white are reserved for emergency crews but at present only blue and white is used too my knowledge but I could be wrong.

I would imagine in areas where theres only reserves there would have too be some kind of understanding in relation to this but I would not imagine lights on personal vehicles is accepted. You see it a lot in the US however but again you also see a lot of police over there with scanners and lights in their own cars :rolleyes:

Fyr.Fytr

Red lights more commonly used by frie service. Only at major incidents. Its used to identify the "command" vehicle with the most senior person on board.
Red strobes on most new ambualnces aswell only activated when the vehicle is stopped at an incident.

Guards have flashing reds on the rear of lightbars of new traffic corps vehicles and also some unmarked cars have alternating flashing red lights built into brake lights.

metman

Fyr.Fytr wrote: »

Guards have flashing reds on the rear of lightbars of new traffic corps vehicles and also some unmarked cars have alternating flashing red lights built into brake lights.

We call em 'rear reds', 'wigwags' or 'disco lights'. Same setup as with alternating high beams.

Fyr.Fytr

Yup thems the ones

civdef

God no - many of the stations in rural/small towns around the country are staffed only by retained firemen. Of course each district will always be over seen by a 24/7 station as far as I am aware.

There are fulltime crews in the following (going from memory):

Dublin, Cork, Galway, Limerick City, Waterford City, Drogheda, Dundalk, Sligo. With very few exceptions, everywhere else is retained. It always amazes me how few people are aware of that.

Red lights more commonly used by frie service. Only at major incidents. Its used to identify the "command" vehicle with the most senior person on board.

Nope, not the case. At the scene of a major incident all vehicles except the command vehicle will leave their blue flashing lights off - in theory anyway.

Fyr.Fytr

In theory, but this is going now, lot of newer vehicles fitted with red rotators for that purpose

DFB have acouple of trucks and ex ambulances converted for command and control with red becons attached.

In theory its just supposed to be blues but doesn't work that way, still need blues on others for one reason or another


Photo copyright blue-twos.com

civdef

Other than DFB though?

(Not counting Kilkenny either, they've had their illegal red beacons for ever )

MrDylan

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

Its illegal to have any kind of light fixed to your vehicle regardless of colour or where its attached. Even KITT was illegal!

No one told the pizza delivery guy about no lights on the roof! Am thinking there's lots of people breaking the law but blind eye is being turned.

Sign on the visor makes sense. Does it help, do drivers pull in?

Something that would help in country towns where the retained fire fighters are forced to wait in traffic while a blaze is ripping or someone is trapped at a car has to be good.

Eru

MrDylan wrote: »

No one told the pizza delivery guy about no lights on the roof! Am thinking there's lots of people breaking the law but blind eye is being turned.

Sign on the visor makes sense. Does it help, do drivers pull in?

Something that would help in country towns where the retained fire fighters are forced to wait in traffic while a blaze is ripping or someone is trapped at a car has to be good.

Thats the problem, make an allowance for a genuine reason and everyone starts using them so you end up pulling people over and delaying them getting t the fire.

Fyr.Fytr wrote: »

Red lights more commonly used by frie service. Only at major incidents. Its used to identify the "command" vehicle with the most senior person on board.
Red strobes on most new ambualnces aswell only activated when the vehicle is stopped at an incident.

Guards have flashing reds on the rear of lightbars of new traffic corps vehicles and also some unmarked cars have alternating flashing red lights built into brake lights.

well you learn something new everyday. I think the red in the unmarked is because the brajke light itself is red just like the front lights flash white.

Fyr.Fytr

No its seperate, was on a traffic corps subrau, he braked but you could still see the alternating lights, aswell as the blue led's in the 3rd brake light

Paulzx

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Of course each district will always be over seen by a 24/7 station as far as I am aware.

Not correct. Most counties in Ireland have no fulltime cover and all their firecover is provided by retained partime crews

timmywex

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

Orange is used for maintenance / commercial vehicles purely for visibility and do not allow the user any additional rights or exemptions from road traffic law.

illegal in ireland, mandatory in most other eu countries! Of course, a total blind eye is turned, a bit like irelands j-walking rule

Eru

Fyr.Fytr wrote: »

No its seperate, was on a traffic corps subrau, he braked but you could still see the alternating lights, aswell as the blue led's in the 3rd brake light

Are you saying they have additional lights installed or am I lost?

timmywex wrote: »

illegal in ireland, mandatory in most other eu countries! Of course, a total blind eye is turned, a bit like irelands j-walking rule

Whats illegal here but mandatory in other countries and what are we turning a blind eye too? Christ Im really being left behind in this thread

Fyr.Fytr

Ok
1) Yes it seems extra lights are now fitted. Am I right in saying wilker now kit out garda cars. They make ambulances and are very fond of flashing lights so presume thats where its coming from
Today as it happens say a hatchback mondeo with blue strobes built into reversing lights

2) Amber beacons


Karlitos, your working too hard fella need a day or two off your brain is frazzled lol

wreckless

I got a bit lost here too

this started as "those emergency workers who respond to calls..."

heres my bit on this.

As a retained firefighter and one of 2,500 approximately throughout Ireland of the 210 retained stations, (as said earlier) it amazes me too of how few people know that are only fulltime stations in cities and some large towns.

The county / city council operates and runs the fire authority in its own area. Wexford fire Service ie. runs by wexford county council. The Chief Fire Officer is in charge with Assitant Chief fire Officers and Operational fire officers making up the rest of the command system. Each station has a Station officer and sub officer running the station with driver /mechanics and firefighters making up the rest of the crews. We are on call 24/7/365. Fire cover in this whole country is very very debateable. Who turns up, how many etc.? Is it a big incident, how far away is the next pump etc? We do live with a false sense of safety.

No firefighters to my knowlegde have ever and will ever be issued with lights/ strobe of whatever type for their own vehicles. No fire authority will take the responsibilty or insurance comany. The union also have a say on this kind of issue. Our task when the alerter goes off is to get to the station as fast and safely as possible. Bad Traffic during the day can mean a longer response time but thats part of the job.


Will try to get more info soon, but may go:rolleyes:

MrDylan

wreckless wrote: »

I got a bit lost here too

this started as "those emergency workers who respond to calls..."

take the responsibilty or insurance comany. The union also have a say on this kind of issue. Our task when the alerter goes off is to get to the station as fast and safely as possible. Bad Traffic during the day can mean a longer response time but thats part of the job.

Yea agree this has gone off topic, as for fire authority issues lights etc that does happen in some counties with senior officers using their own cars to get to an incident.

No one is saying about going to an incident that would involve risking safety of other users or using flashing blue lights, question is if you were driving along a road and you saw car behind you with a sign saying FIRE on the visor and his head lights on, would you pull in and let them pass, not everyone but most people I think would and therefore you have a quicker turnout.

Eru

MrDylan wrote: »

Yea agree this has gone off topic, as for fire authority issues lights etc that does happen in some counties with senior officers using their own cars to get to an incident.

No one is saying about going to an incident that would involve risking safety of other users or using flashing blue lights, question is if you were driving along a road and you saw car behind you with a sign saying FIRE on the visor and his head lights on, would you pull in and let them pass, not everyone but most people I think would and therefore you have a quicker turnout.

I make it a rule not too interfere with a speeding car, just get out of his way and let him kill himself if he so desires.

The reality is you simple dont know when someone has a genuine reason for speeding. I remember once rushing my daughter to hospital and a smart ass Taxi kept blocking me with a stupid grin on his face until eventually I met a patrol car and got an escort. Wish to god I had taken his reg but wasnt main priority at the time.

MrDylan

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

I make it a rule not too interfere with a speeding car, just get out of his way and let him kill himself if he so desires.

The reality is you simple dont know when someone has a genuine reason for speeding. I remember once rushing my daughter to hospital and a smart ass Taxi kept blocking me with a stupid grin on his face until eventually I met a patrol car and got an escort. Wish to god I had taken his reg but wasnt main priority at the time.

Thst is frustrating when you have a genuine reason for advancing in traffic.

I'm not suggesting retained ff speed in excess of the speed limit or in a dangerous manner, that's just increasing the risk of causing an accident.

But like you said people don't know know where the the driver behind is off to and most times don't really care. If they were able to see the car behind with the headlights on then notice a sign on the front of the car most but not all people would co-operate.

If its all within the law and done in a safe manner the driver gets to the station quicker. That cant be a bad thing for the emergency services.

Preset No.3

timmywex wrote: »

illegal in ireland, mandatory in most other eu countries! Of course, a total blind eye is turned, a bit like irelands j-walking rule

I was under the presumption that in ireland, there was no law against the white strobes and it was only recently adapted by the Garda when kitting out the cars with all sorts of strobes. I have a friend that was a government driver and used his own personal car. He wasnt allowed use blue lights but had white strobes fitting into his lights when travelling under escort. 5 years ago you had the light bar on top that was it. Now its the light bar, 2 front side strobes, strobes in the front grille, strobe in the third brake light as well as strobes in the rear lights. Some white, Some red. Someone mentioned wilker fitting the lights, the lightbars on squad cars come from haztec. I have a white/yelow removable dashmount strobe in my jeep. Not used for dodging traffic or the like, but used on sites. No problems with white at all. I was told by a local garda that there is no law banning the use of white strobes, only the manner that they are used that might be deemed to be impersonating a member of the garda.

Fyr.Fytr

It was me who mentioned wilker, they do use haztec as one of their suppliers.

My point about wilker was, next time you pass an ambulance made by them, put it this way "disco bus"

It was only a couple of years ago all unmarged garda cars has was a mag mont blue strobe the flashed once a week, now theyre like christmas tress, could be down to wilker

ScubaDave

If i remember my legislation, the white light to the front of the vehicle has to be a white STEADY light!

IRISH RAIL

The strobes on some unmarked and marked garda cars are called dashmasters

maglite

another solution/idea i have come accross is you can get signs for the cars, they are removable and magnetic,


itt may be an idea to have a removable sign on the bottet with fire or some souch on it.

if there is interest i'll route out the supplier

shakin

i know a retained fire man who has an orange light on his dash, just as a warning for other road users, cos its a small tyown tight streets and all that...

Lifer

I think I'm the person eve was referring to with a visor in the passenger side- to be honest it doesn't get you very far, nor is it meant to. Its not 100% visible, especially when you have headlamps on.

It's purpose, and here it does work well, is to encourage a bit of courtesy from motorists to cross a junction/ merge into a lane and get you a bit of leeway if you park somewhere not 100% kosher when you ditch it to cover the rest of the way on foot due to traffic.

Flashers on cars, in my experience, can bring out the crazy in some motorists as they get quite tense and nervous around them. You run the risk of their actions harming others as well as the false sense of purpose it gives the driver to have them. Sometimes risks are worth taking, but endagering other road users only to find out you're being called to something like a skip fire certainly isn't one of them!

As for the reds, as far as I'm aware, red is reserved for the armed forces. With incident command, the command vehicle is to leave its blues on- and all others- once in a safe location, are to switch off.

vtec2008

Fyr.Fytr wrote: »

It was me who mentioned wilker, they do use haztec as one of their suppliers.

My point about wilker was, next time you pass an ambulance made by them, put it this way "disco bus"

It was only a couple of years ago all unmarged garda cars has was a mag mont blue strobe the flashed once a week, now theyre like christmas tress, could be down to wilker

I think the Garda use "Premier Hazard" as their supplier for lights but not sure what model sirens.

Fyr.Fytr

Yea i noticed that, but completly forgot this thread and thus didnt post it to correct myself.

As far as i know wilker are still fitting out the cars with lights, markings etc etc

I should be down in wilker in the not too distant future and ill try find out more.

gerire

scubadave wrote:

If i remember my legislation, the white light to the front of the vehicle has to be a white STEADY light!

Breakdown vehicle
Customs and excise patrol vehicle
Irish Marine Emergency service vehicle
road clearance vhaicle
road works vehhicle
Senior Fire Officer
And Senior manager in Irish Marine services

Advantage of having the traffic books beside ya!

Preset No.3

I recently bought a Dash-miser on Ebay from the US. According to Ebay rules you cannot sell coloured strobes, so they put in the code of the strobe. It was after i got the unit and plugged it in that it was red. I was looking for a white strobe. I would sometimes have use for a strobe with work, but Id need a great excuse with using a red strobe. Its the same model that the Garda use in the unmarked cars. Cost €120 if anyone is interested in a red strobe.

civdef

Probably a good time to point out that (a) using that strobe on a vehicle would be illegal, (b) this forum isn't aplace for flogging stuff.

djtechnics1210

You can buy those signs for your sun visor and bonnet on niton999.co.uk (not promoting or selling just informing) their pretty strict about who buys them though, will only send to station etc. They also have ones that light up the border around the word so as to facilitate night time use.
In theory when a call out comes in on the beeper then that firefighter is working from that moment and is responding to an emergency, so in theory he/she could use blue/red lights, thats if fire service were willing to stand over firefighters doing so.
Any ideas on it???

djtechnics1210

You can buy those signs for your sun visor and bonnet on niton999.co.uk (not promoting or selling just informing) their pretty strict about who buys them though, will only send to station etc. They also have ones that light up the border around the word so as to facilitate night time use.
In theory when a call out comes in on the beeper then that firefighter is working from that moment and is responding to an emergency, so in theory he/she could use blue/red lights, thats if fire service were willing to stand over firefighters doing so.
Any ideas on it???

derossi

I would imagine the rules in every county is different. I am a FF in donegal and the super allowed us to use the dash lights with the blue lights to get to the station. i was stopped by the guards on one occasion as i was going to the station, he stopped me and said wtf are you doing, i said i am going to a call, he said well you cant use that, i said the super gave us permission to use it, he said well the super didnt write the road traffic act. he sent me on the way. turned out the call was a rtc with persons trapped. i can see his point of view he probably wasnt told about it but he did ring the station and apologised for stopping me.

a few things,

i do have to say though the light is fantastic. before all we had was a sign and it was a nightmare trying to get peoples attention while pointing to a sign while their thinking wtf is this nutter on.

insurance wise, well we are on our own. if we crash or something then the best thing is to turn the light off and swallow the bill.

i did notice at the start that i was getting excited when i used it, fantastic thrill when getting to the station with the light flashing and cars pulling in. i had to make a decision to either stop using it before i kill someone or myself or cop myself on. i stopped using it for a few weeks and now i only use it when there is a lot of traffic and i switch it off when the road is clear.

the major problem with it is other peoples reactions to it. we are not trained in high speed driving so we obey the traffic laws. we are not trained in other peoples reactions so major concentration and consideration is needed when its on. the best thing to do is only to use it when the person in front of you is not travelling too fast, give them plenty of notice and dont hassle them. after all its only a warning that i need to be somewhere in a hurry and im not in pursuit of someone or the like.

on one occasion though a guy did take off in front of me and sped off in to the distance, must have been a stolen car or no insurance or something. i did have a chuckle at that one though.

on reflection though, when our bleep goes off we dont know if we are responding to a skip fire or a house fire with persons reported. our aim is to get to the station and out the doors within five mins and this little light helps us do this. who knows how many lives it has saved. the people of donegal expect the protection of a full time fire crew from a part time service. as tescos say 'every little helps'

Preset No.3

civdef wrote: »

Probably a good time to point out that (a) using that strobe on a vehicle would be illegal, (b) this forum isn't aplace for flogging stuff.

Ok, sorry for the flogging stuff part. Ive seen many breakdown vehicles using a red strobe. You are quoting from fact, perhaps you could point where the information comes from.

civdef

http://193.178.1.79/1996/en/si/0137.html

http://193.178.1.79/1963/en/si/0189.html#zzsi189y1963