Scam operating by a company

metroman_12000

Has anyone been approached by a company called H2O and been promised a bottle of wine or a set of steak knives if they are willing to allow the h2o rep into their house to "test" the water as part of a "survey"?. Invariably the results of this "test" show that the water is unfit for human consumption:( (this was also true of a fresh bottle of Ballygowan I had in my fridge).
The test consists of putting a couple of probes in the water and running current through it, which makes it turn black and gooey.
Suddenly, the "survey" becomes a hard sell operation with immense pressure applied to obtain a deposit on a drinking water or reverse osmosis filter. The filter system costs 2,700 euro but if you sign up immediately you can have it for 2,100 euro .... happy days ...NOT.
I think the whole thing is a very well run and slick scam. Anyone out there been caught?

seaner

metroman_12000 wrote: »

Has anyone been approached by a company called H2O and been promised a bottle of wine or a set of steak knives if they are willing to allow the h2o rep into their house to "test" the water as part of a "survey"?. Invariably the results of this "test" show that the water is unfit for human consumption:( (this was also true of a fresh bottle of Ballygowan I had in my fridge).
The test consists of putting a couple of probes in the water and running current through it, which makes it turn black and gooey.
Suddenly, the "survey" becomes a hard sell operation with immense pressure applied to obtain a deposit on a drinking water or reverse osmosis filter. The filter system costs 2,700 euro but if you sign up immediately you can have it for 2,100 euro .... happy days ...NOT.
I think the whole thing is a very well run and slick scam. Anyone out there been caught?

bloody hell. My ma rang me a few weeks ago and said that someone had rang her and wanted to perform these tests. I remember saying to her that it sounded dodgy alright and that if they rang back to tell them she wasn't interested. It was really down to the fact that I didn't want them bothering my ma, but I didn't realise it was in fact a scam.

Thanks for heads up. I'll defo tell her now if she hears back from them to hang up the phone!

bugler

Don't let anyone into your house.

Heisenberg.

This post has been deleted.

Heisenberg.

This post has been deleted.

Slunk

Well we had them in our house and they ran similar tests on the water. Quite shocking the result. The chap was very nice but the price wasnt exactly to our liking. Suppose been drinking it all our life hasnt done us that much harm. Not worth the near 3k price tag. Still got two bottles of vino out of them.

Doesnt seem to be much wrong with the company tbh. How is it a scam. They demonstate thier product and your option is to buy it. They try the hard sell yes, but thats there job isnt it. Salesperson.

If you dont like it,dont buy it, simple.

Oryx

Their so called testing sounds shady, even if their product is wonderful. That alone would put me off.

We got the leaflets and a guy trying to test the water, but tbh, if it was going to kill me, it would have by now, so I didnt bother.

seaner

well i think its the whole scaremongering tactics they use. I'm sure they achieve the same 'test results' in every household they call to. And of course there are going to be people out there who'll be shocked at finding out how 'dirty' the water is they're drinking so they could easily fall victim to handing over whatever the fee is for their filtering systems. Like new mothers etc? Surely the thought of your baby drinking 'dirty' water isn't a nice idea, they for example , might be easily swayed?

Anyway 3k for a filtering system? Whoa. We got a filter system installed in work recently (not from this company) and it cost €500 incl VAT, the water's lovely and clear now (makes a mean cuppa!) so how they can justify 3k is beyond me.

Its also how they market themselves. When my ma rang me she seemed to have gotten the impression that they were almost government run?? Don't know where she got that from.

Anyhow, its just doesn't sound quite right does it?

joeybloggs

The test consists of putting a couple of probes in the water and running current through it, which makes it turn black and gooey.

That can't be right at all.Impurties in water are usually in ppm (mg/L).Surely theres no enough to react to make it go, black and gooey as you say.

Sounds like a bit of a scam to me.
Perhaps he dropped some crappy cheap Vino in to the water sample.It would explain what you saw.:)

metroman_12000

Its a scam alright :mad: I just found this http://www.ncf.org.za/docs/publications/consumerfair/vol4/testing.html

and this: http://www.watertestscam.org.za/

and this: http://www.cslb.ca.gov/news/news20020110.asp

Apparantly any water with minerals in it will turn gooey if you pass electrical current throught it. When they set up their demo they use your water in one glass (full of minerals, mostly harmless) and they put distilled water which they bring with them in another glass (no minerals in distilled water) When they switch on the probes ... shock horror !!! Your tap water is unfit for human consumption. The ordinary Joe Soap is tricked into parting with huge sums of money. As for the website looking legit, any gob****e can have a website

themadchef

I posted about this recently in another thread.

I missed it as i said my husband works away. Poor me :rolleyes:

Neighbour got caught though. Basically they wont show unless your partner is there, so there's no phone call the following day saying "hubby not interested, sorry to waste your time"

Very very pushy sales tactics, telling them they would get cancer / allow their kids to get cancer by not putting this in. Made them sign the direct debit there and then.

When I told the neighbour about the scam , it did not go down too well. I asked them to ask them to test Ballygown and distilled water! No joy. When this couple tried to back out they got very very nasty. Seemingly the thing was installed the next day, not allowed to pull out, not allowed to cancel DD.

Nasty, nasty, nasty. I'd have told them to take it away, but they got suckered an they know it. We have great water here, yet it's truly amazing how many they have sold on the back of "so and so has it in his house". I rang the "so and so" in question, and while he had a filter in his house, it was nothing to do with them. He was not impressed

So I would say avoid at all costs!

Well done OP for bringing it to peoples attention!

smashey

This crowd are based in Galway. I'm almost sure that they are the same crowd that Donegal Co. Council are taking to court over claims they alledgedly made about the water in certain parts of Donegal. The same hard sell tactics were used.

Basically, bargepoles, touch and don't spring to mind.

the_syco

Eh... do a search. These f**kers (using the same name) have been around for a while (read: at least a year, maybe more).

board om

if it is the compamny Pure H20 then it is NOT A SCAM. and no, i dont work or have any affiliation with them in any way what so ever. i just know of the company because a few years ago i had some dealings with them on a professional level (not purchasing their water systme or workig for them) and they are a perfectly reputable company.

all i know about them is that their water purifiers are really good but a bit expensive. it think they are meant as a long term investment.

you might have just got a pushy sales man or something.

metroman_12000

They reason they won't call unless both partners are present is because, after the demo you might say, "I will discuss it with my partner and get back to you". They depend on doing the trick with the probes and getting you to part with your money while you are in shock. If most people had time to reflect on spending 2 or 3K on a simple filter they would decide against it. Also it leaves you with no time to look around to see how much legit companies charge ..... I have heard they are very nasty people if you try to back out after signing up with them. A lady called Joe Duffy's show last Thursday 13th March. She spoke to the manager and he swore down the phone at her. She stopped her cheque and then they sued her for 2,800 euro. Her barrister advised her to pay as he felt she would lose the case. The case would be about a stopped cheque, not about her being conned.

smashey

board om wrote: »

if it is the compamny Pure H20 then it is NOT A SCAM. and no, i dont work or have any affiliation with them in any way what so ever. i just know of the company because a few years ago i had some dealings with them on a professional level (not purchasing their water systme or workig for them) and they are a perfectly reputable company.

all i know about them is that their water purifiers are really good but a bit expensive. it think they are meant as a long term investment.

you might have just got a pushy sales man or something.

Their purifiers might be good and indeed, might be considered a long term investment if there was a need for them. Clearly, in Donegal they were scaremongering.

Sangre

As far as I'm aware one of the EU consumer Directives entitles a consumer to back out of any transaction made with door to door saling for up to a certain period (say 14 days). It is to stop hard sells like these.

let me double check.

edit -

a quick search reveals "Council Directive 85/577/EEC of 20 December 1985 to protect the consumer in respect of contracts negotiated away from business premises" which covers doorstep selling and entitles a consumer 'a right of cancellation over a period of at least seven days in order to enable him to assess the obligations arising under the contract'. Pretty sure there is a more recent directive for this though.

also a europa document (EU webside) on consumer rights claims aggressive doorstep selling tactics are illegal. Don't know law for this though.

metroman_12000

I would be very suspicious of anyone who defends this company and its methods. The units they sell for 2 and 3K can be bought for around 350/400 euro, and some of the cheaper ones have more features. How can 5 water filters cost 3,000 euro? As for them being long term ... the filters have to be changed every 9 to 12 months. In the USA a company called everpure used the probes to con people into buying their water filters. The sales manager of that company got 6 months in jail, gthe salesman got 3 months, both were put on probation. They were ordered to refund 50 customers in full and banned from ever being involved in retail sales of water treatment equipment ever again. That says it all. We have no consumer protection laws it seems, well not like the USA at least.

Sangre

emm. despite what you think, eu/irish consumer laws are far, far superior to the US.

metroman_12000

Might be Sangre, but try telling that to the lady who has to give these scammers 2800 euro. Maybe she needs a better barrister

board om

smashey wrote: »

Their purifiers might be good and indeed, might be considered a long term investment if there was a need for them. Clearly, in Donegal they were scaremongering.

as far as i remember they used to sell them with the idea being that they pay for themselves over the 20 years, etc.

they are a genine company and they arent a scam or anything. But, and i say a big BUT, i think they MIGHT have a sales people who work on a commission only basis. they would probably get high commission but no base salary so they would only get paid for what they sell. in my experience any company who do this usually end up with dodgy sales men who would do anything to get a sale. so a pefectly good company all of a sudden end up with a bad name because their commisssion only sales people make little old ladies sign over their pensions for a water purifier.

you get it all the time with double glazing salesmen, and those guys selling extensions to houses, stuff like that.

sure i remember BT used to have commission only sales people years ago and they used to sign up customer names from tombstones in graveyards. nobody would know a thing until months later when a phone bill would arrive to a house with the deceased persons name on it. and the salesman would already of been paid his commission at that stage.

JohnC.

My parents got this maybe a couple of years ago and are very happy with it. It did develop a small fault a some months after it was installed, but they were out quickly to fix it and it has been fine since.

As for the test probe being a scam, they let them keep the probe and it still shows the ordinary tap water as having bad results but the water from their filter being clean. So unless there is some extraordinarily elaborate rigging going on, that would seem to be for real too.

The water supply changed recently too and they now get (very) hard water. All the neighbours kettles are destroyed with limescale in no time but their kettle remains clean as a whistle.

No, I have no affiliation with the company.

metroman_12000

The H2O reps are on the ball and taking over this discussion. I had done some research before I started this discussion. At least one of h2O's directors has opened and closed 3 companies (involved in the sale of water filters) before he started H2O. Each time his customers were left high and dry for service and spare parts. I also heard H2O featured on the Joe Duffy show a week ago today. The Joe Duffy show hardly start a discussion on one complaint or do they? You cannot wash your hands of your employees by saying they are over eager because they work on commission only and will say anything to make "that" sale. No matter how you look at this, its a scam, a con job, and downright dishonest ..... oh yeah .... and now we hear that Donegal Co. Council are taking them to court.... it just gets curiouser and curiouser

tvnutz

Kahless wrote: »

As for the test probe being a scam, they let them keep the probe and it still shows the ordinary tap water as having bad results but the water from their filter being clean. So unless there is some extraordinarily elaborate rigging going on, that would seem to be for real too.

Well ye,that's the scam for crying out loud! The probe is a joke,it just causes minerals in water to turn black making it look liek the water is bad when it is actually not. Their filters remove any minerals but you just paid a few grand for nothing. Just because they have a probe that causes a chemical reaction in fine water doesn't mean the water is bad.

JohnC.

tvnutz wrote: »

Well ye,that's the scam for crying out loud! The probe is a joke,it just causes minerals in water to turn black making it look liek the water is bad when it is actually not. Their filters remove any minerals but you just paid a few grand for nothing. Just because they have a probe that causes a chemical reaction in fine water doesn't mean the water is bad.

The probe they got seems to be different from the one described earlier. It doesn't cause a reaction. It just gives a digital readout.

JohnC.

metroman_12000 wrote: »

The H2O reps are on the ball and taking over this discussion.

Are you referring to me? I already told you I have nothing to do with them. Or am I just lieing now?:rolleyes:

AckwelFoley

I would be uncomfortable at calling this a scam, rather a dubious sales method.

foggy_lad

that test they use is the scam as if you use that electrode thing in any tap or bottled water it will create similar results!

also the product they sell is grossly overpriced compared to diy filter systems and then we have all been drinking tap water for years and are still alive to shut the door on these well versed sales people!

board om

metroman_12000 wrote: »

The H2O reps are on the ball and taking over this discussion. I had done some research before I started this discussion. At least one of h2O's directors has opened and closed 3 companies (involved in the sale of water filters) before he started H2O. Each time his customers were left high and dry for service and spare parts. I also heard H2O featured on the Joe Duffy show a week ago today. The Joe Duffy show hardly start a discussion on one complaint or do they? You cannot wash your hands of your employees by saying they are over eager because they work on commission only and will say anything to make "that" sale. No matter how you look at this, its a scam, a con job, and downright dishonest ..... oh yeah .... and now we hear that Donegal Co. Council are taking them to court.... it just gets curiouser and curiouser

i think it might be me he is accusing of being H2O employee which is pretty ridiculous. as i said before, i neither work nor am i affiliated with H20 in an way. I just know from professional experience that they are a genuine reputable company. and i dont agree that people or companies should be labelled a SCAM or RIP OFF with absolutely no proof or basis for it,

but it was on the joe duffy show so it must be true!!!! sure its not as if people call into the joe duffy show just to give out about anything, is it???
all i know is if there is an expose on it in the sunday world then we will definitly know it is true, that will be it in concrete fact


metroman_12000 you seem to be the one leading the SCAM witch hunt against H2O and apparently you did research and found out that the company directors changed the comapny name 3 times. this means you most likey know who the directors of H2O are by name. would this be because you work for a comapny called Aqua Treatment who sell very similiar products to H2O and if i am not mistaken the 2 comapnies would be in competition with each other???? www.aquatreatment.ie

correct me if i am wrong but i thought i would do some research as well and my research could be wrong but thats what it looks like to me.

so would i be correct in saying you work for Aqua Treatment???

mathias

I just know from professional experience that they are a genuine reputable company.

It is clear to anyone who does a bit of research /googling into this that the company is using lies and false test and or test results to sell a grossly overpriced product , if anyone thinks their water is bad by a Britta filter for heavens sake !!

This company is clearly not a reputable company , the sooner they are brought down the better.
And anyone who has been unfortunate enough to fall for this con should be taking legal advice against them ,

They are pure and utter scum , and thats putting it nicely.

How anyone can come on here and defend that company is beyond me , its no wonder people think you are working for them.

AckwelFoley

caviet emptor.

foggy_lad

Sangre wrote: »

As far as I'm aware one of the EU consumer Directives entitles a consumer to back out of any transaction made with door to door saling for up to a certain period (say 14 days). It is to stop hard sells like these.

let me double check.

edit -

a quick search reveals "Council Directive 85/577/EEC of 20 December 1985 to protect the consumer in respect of contracts negotiated away from business premises" which covers doorstep selling and entitles a consumer 'a right of cancellation over a period of at least seven days in order to enable him to assess the obligations arising under the contract'. Pretty sure there is a more recent directive for this though.

also a europa document (EU webside) on consumer rights claims aggressive doorstep selling tactics are illegal. Don't know law for this though.

they usually have a waiver clause written in to their contracts to "allow" them fit the unit the next day so this change of mind/cooling off period does not apply

board om

snyper wrote: »

caviet emptor.

spot on.

mathias

Take a look at this ,

The testing process is a well known scam , they even have a name for it , the Jam jar scam ,

http://www.ncf.org.za/docs/publications/consumerfair/vol4/testing.html

So , anyone who has been done ,take them to court , its a known fraudulent practice and you will win !!
Note the famous companies in the list at the bottom who are " known" to be practising this scam !

board om

mathias wrote: »

It is clear to anyone who does a bit of research /googling into this that the company is using lies and false test and or test results to sell a grossly overpriced product , if anyone thinks their water is bad by a Britta filter for heavens sake !!

This company is clearly not a reputable company , the sooner they are brought down the better.
And anyone who has been unfortunate enough to fall for this con should be taking legal advice against them ,

They are pure and utter scum , and thats putting it nicely.

How anyone can come on here and defend that company is beyond me , its no wonder people think you are working for them.

there is nobody that has been RIPPED OFF by them. in fact the only compalint made about them is that the units are expensive, which is actually a point i made as well. it is quite lot of money and i couldnt justify paying it myself.

but from knowing them as a client of mine through a completley differnt industry many, many years ago, i know them as a professional company to deal with. they were credit worthy, had accoutns in order, had no outstanding judgements, paid their bills on time, etc. in my opinion that is a professional company.

the person who started this witch hunt from what i can see actually works for there competition so i think this thread had alterior motives.

i on the other hand live in dublin, they are based galway, i work in an entirely differnet industry, i hadnt even heard the còmpany name mention in about 5 years. i just felt it wrong that they get completley labelled as RIP OFF and SCAM without opinions being given from both sides.

if i heard you being slageed in the same way and found what was being said not entirely true, i would make the exact same comments.

at the end of the day if peple buy the service that is down to them, i dont really give a fcuk.

mathias

Board om , you clearly have an interest here , and your defence of them disgusts me , thats all I have to say to you !

AckwelFoley

mathias wrote: »

Board om , you clearly have an interest here , and your defence of them disgusts me , thats all I have to say to you !

I got a better idea.

Lets post a thread about a topic.

We'll all agree.

The world is happy... yet boring.

Peoples opinions differ.

mathias

Do the research , this is no opinion , the company is a well known international fraud outfit listed and warned about on consumer fair trade sites all over the world , hardly an opinion , more an undisputed fact at this stage !!

If you want an RO filter system , then buy one yourself and not through these criminals , the average price for an Ro system is no more that 200 to 300 euros.

BrandonBlock

ROFL

From pureh2o.ie site

H2O’s Aqualite water purifier uses an innovative and patented process known as Reverse Osmosis

From consumer board site

Water treated by reverse osmosis (RO) contains very few or no minerals, so it does not conduct electricity. Therefore no discolouration will be visible in the RO water.

The tricksters claim that the discolouration is caused by the tap water (and even bottled mineral water) being ‘contaminated’ and not fit for human consumption. In fact, the minerals in tap water and bottled water are required by international water quality standards – which set a minimum and maximum level for all common minerals and pollutants.

board om: Can you tell me exactly what their product does to water? I'm not calling them fraudsters or scam artists but they (pureh2o.ie) say, and I quote "freeing water from any kind of impurity it contains, such as contaminants or micro organisms". The test they conduct at peoples houses does NOT prove the water is contaminated, it proves that the water is er... water (which naturally contains minerals like calcium and magnesium). It is these natural minerals that produce the black goo, NOT contaminants as they are claiming.

So either they are extremely and conveniently ignorant, or plain lying.

board om

mathias wrote: »

Take a look at this ,

The testing process is a well known scam , they even have a name for it , the Jam jar scam ,

http://www.ncf.org.za/docs/publications/consumerfair/vol4/testing.html

So , anyone who has been done ,take them to court , its a known fraudulent practice and you will win !!
Note the famous companies in the list at the bottom who are " known" to be practising this scam !

lol, this is site in Sout Africa. and this company arent even on the list. your point is non existent.

and i have no interest in them, i am just sick of idiots jumping on the RIP OFF bandwagon every chance they get, i dont think a day goes by without someone bringing up the small claims courts. but i dont think anyone has ever even taken the time to read the legislation of the small claims court.

this is another perfect example. someone comes on to boards and starts slagging off his business compepitior. a couple of people come back saying thay also received a phone call or visit. not that they were riped off, that they received a phone call or visit. 10 times as many people come back saying actually that comapny are fine and they are not a rip off or a scam. but then someone like you starts dragging up pages from South Afria which doesnt even name the company we were all talking about and now you have labelled them a scam.

tell me where on that site you posted that it names the comapny we are discussing??

BrandonBlock

Florida, USA: http://www.co.palm-beach.fl.us/PubInf/News_Room/07-05/07-27-05_scam.htm

Washington, USA:
http://www.examiner.com/a-878071~Be_on_the_lookout_for_water_filter_scam.html

board om, it doesn't say the name of the company on any of those websites. But they actually say it on their OWN website that they are selling a reverse osmosis system, and use techniques like tds metres to test the water. It actually is quite clearly a scam because they are LYING to people. Do you not see that? They are telling people their tap water is contaminated from their test results, which test for natural minerals in the water. That is out and out lying. There's no 2 ways about it.

board om

BrandonBlock wrote: »

ROFL

From pureh2o.ie site


From consumer board site


board om: Can you tell me exactly what their product does to water? I'm not calling them fraudsters or scam artists but they (pureh2o.ie) say, and I quote "freeing water from any kind of impurity it contains, such as contaminants or micro organisms". The test they conduct at peoples houses does NOT prove the water is contaminated, it proves that the water is er... water (which naturally contains minerals like calcium and magnesium). It is these natural minerals that produce the black goo, NOT contaminants as they are claiming.

So either they are extremely and conveniently ignorant, or plain lying.

hey, i have no idea and i havent claimed to have any idea. it could change your normal tap water into chocolate fudge sundae for all i know

all i know about these guys is they are in business a long time and they sell quite expensive water purifier systems to households, they do very well out of it, and they are not a scam or a rip off. they offer a product and if the custoner likes it the buy it.

my problem is with people labeling companies a scam when there is nothing to back it up. in my opinion of you let someone into your house, let them do a 5 minute test and then afterwards based on that test you hand them nearly €3k without checking things out for yourself, then it is you that is being stupid.

i just think people jump to this RIP OFF or SCAM coclusion a bit too quckly these day, thats all. and i think people should slow before making accusations like that.

niceirishfella

bugler wrote: »

Don't let anyone into your house.

+1 .............

giddyup

board om wrote: »

but from knowing them as a client of mine through a completley differnt industry many, many years ago, i know them as a professional company to deal with. they were credit worthy, had accoutns in order, had no outstanding judgements, paid their bills on time, etc. in my opinion that is a professional company.

I'll bet Hitler paid for his incinerators on time - he was very professional.

Scam, dubious sales tactics or just a hard sell, call it what you will but if someone is scaring oul ones into getting these systems with a little bit of dramatic pseudo science then that is a problem. They are essentially basing their sale on a falsehood. If the company are paying on commission only they are not absolved from guilt if their sales people are up to no good.

Hypothetical but would you want...let's say... your widowed mother subjected to this pitch? I wouldn't so whether it's a scam or just unscrupulous sales tactics the OP is providing a fair warning to boards folks which I think is fair enough.

I have no idea what you are defending or why - the fact that they pay their bills is completely irrelevant.

Sponge Bob

Slunk wrote: »

Doesn't seem to be much wrong with the company tbh. How is it a scam. They demonstate thier product and your option is to buy it. They try the hard sell yes,

Nothing wrong with dodgy double glazing salesmen or conservatory salesmen or eircom winback reps either , by precisely the same logic.

They were around my way a year or so back but thankfully they understood '**** off ' when I mentioned it to them.

JohnC.

foggy_lad wrote: »

that test they use is the scam as if you use that electrode thing in any tap or bottled water it will create similar results!

Slightly OT, but bottled water isn't actually any better than tap water and can even be worse in areas with good tap water. People have come to believe that bottled water is better, but it isn't true.

Hitchhiker's Guide to...

board om wrote: »

i think it might be me he is accusing of being H2O employee which is pretty ridiculous. as i said before, i neither work nor am i affiliated with H20 in an way. I just know from professional experience that they are a genuine reputable company. and i dont agree that people or companies should be labelled a SCAM or RIP OFF with absolutely no proof or basis for it,

but it was on the joe duffy show so it must be true!!!! sure its not as if people call into the joe duffy show just to give out about anything, is it???
all i know is if there is an expose on it in the sunday world then we will definitly know it is true, that will be it in concrete fact


metroman_12000 you seem to be the one leading the SCAM witch hunt against H2O and apparently you did research and found out that the company directors changed the comapny name 3 times. this means you most likey know who the directors of H2O are by name. would this be because you work for a comapny called Aqua Treatment who sell very similiar products to H2O and if i am not mistaken the 2 comapnies would be in competition with each other???? www.aquatreatment.ie

correct me if i am wrong but i thought i would do some research as well and my research could be wrong but thats what it looks like to me.

so would i be correct in saying you work for Aqua Treatment???

interesting that he hasn't posted since.

i think there's more dodgy stuff going on in this thread though. a lot of posters seem to have too much knowledge about directors of water purification system companies.