Dublin Outer Orbital Route (DOOR)?

Irish and Proud

Hi,

I heard that the Dublin Outer Orbital Route (DOOR) is not going ahead (in this week's Meath Chronicle). Now, is the road scrapped or is it just being postponed? I know that it's not a part of Transport 21! Apparently, the whole of Meath is up in arms - some Meath TDs say that the road would carry 55k PCUs per day and is the obvious thing to do. They also say that both the proposed North East Hospital and Breamor Port projects need this road to secure economic viability.

To me, the DOOR concept is good, but do we need the road now or is it better to just identify a reservation (that can be protected from development) so that the route can be implemented at some time in the future? Would it be better to invest in rail for now and look at doing the Dublin-Navan line and quad-tracking parts of the Dublin-Drogheda line?

I'll leave it to you guys!

Bluetonic

Not new news, I'm sure it's been announced a while back.

Prob best to post in this forum

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=887

invincibleirish

If i were in Meath i'd be happy with the news,im well aware of quality of life issues at stake (like long driving commutes) do you really want the area to just became a giant east/west/north/south Motorway corridor with barely a railway in site;)?

jjbrien

its unbelivable that they have no vison what so ever. they think that they can rely soly on the m50 and by adding an extra lane to the m50 that will solve all their problems :rolleyes: lack of vison is this country is what has got us in to the sorry state of affairs with the m50 we need another orbital route now as when the extra lane on the m50 opens up it will still be a car park

jkgvfg

Latest I heard on the DOOR was 2020.

markf909

jjbrien wrote: »

its unbelivable that they have no vison what so ever. they think that they can rely soly on the m50 and by adding an extra lane to the m50 that will solve all their problems :rolleyes: lack of vison is this country is what has got us in to the sorry state of affairs with the m50 we need another orbital route now as when the extra lane on the m50 opens up it will still be a car park

In fairness by the time they actually finished building it, I reckon we'd know a lot more about peak oil.

T21 will not be built by 2015 so the odds on this project getting done by 2020? :rolleyes:

jjbrien

markf909 wrote: »

In fairness by the time they actually finished building it, I reckon we'd know a lot more about peak oil.

T21 will not be built by 2015 so the odds on this project getting done by 2020? :rolleyes:

they can build a motorway from kicock to galway in 4 years but cant build a simple road around dublin in 13 years this country has gone to the dogs :eek:

spacetweek

jjbrien wrote: »

they can build a motorway from kicock to galway in 4 years but cant build a simple road around dublin in 13 years this country has gone to the dogs :eek:

Of course they can, they just don't want to, the 55k PCUs bit is nonsense. Most of the traffic in the Dublin area is the radials, an orbital is just a convenience really.

jjbrien

spacetweek wrote: »

Of course they can, they just don't want to, the 55k PCUs bit is nonsense. Most of the traffic in the Dublin area is the radials, an orbital is just a convenience really.

so your telling me its perfectly fine in this day of age for me to take 2 hours to drive from Swords to Clondalkin or if i want to go from airport to mulligar i have to sit for 2 hours on the m50 then onto the choked n4:eek:

loyatemu

jjbrien wrote: »

so your telling me its perfectly fine in this day of age for me to take 2 hours to drive from Swords to Clondalkin or if i want to go from airport to mulligar i have to sit for 2 hours on the m50 then onto the choked n4:eek:

don't think the outer orbital motorway would help you much in either of those scenarios. Its proposed to run Drogheda-Navan-Naas (or thereabouts).

invincibleirish

jjbrien wrote: »

so your telling me its perfectly fine in this day of age for me to take 2 hours to drive from Swords to Clondalkin or if i want to go from airport to mulligar i have to sit for 2 hours on the m50 then onto the choked n4:eek:

Welcome to Ireland, where have you been while we bought all our cars?

Nostradamus

Sean Quinn the bazillionaire said something interesting about it a few months back. He said the orbital motorway should be built but with a rail line down the middle.

It's an interesting idea. I have no doubt this baby will get built, but if a railline down the middle can be included it would make it less scary to the Green Party, this might be a workable compromise.

Chris_533976

This was never part of T21 and noone ever said 'this is when it will be build'. Ideas were being flung around about building it.

All they've said is that they're not going to build it right now, but the papers have jumped on this in a sensationalist hype.

D'Peoples Voice

jjbrien wrote: »

so your telling me its perfectly fine in this day of age for me to take 2 hours to drive from Swords to Clondalkin or if i want to go from airport to mulligar i have to sit for 2 hours on the m50 then onto the choked n4:eek:

Not to worry, you will be able to use the Atlantic Road Corridor from Swords to Clondalkin
http://www.frankfahey.ie/news.month.php?id=188
So from Swords, you go North on the M1, turn off for Ardee, and get on the N2, follow the road towards Derry, turning off for Letterkenny. From there, you follow the signs for Waterford via sligo, Galway, Limerick and Cork. Taking the M9(N9) out of Waterford, you follow the signs for Dublin, and when you get to Newlands Cross, take a Left.
Now whats wrong with that as a commuter route each morning and evening?

jjbrien

D'Peoples Voice wrote: »

Not to worry, you will be able to use the Atlantic Road Corridor from Swords to Clondalkin
http://www.frankfahey.ie/news.month.php?id=188
So from Swords, you go North on the M1, turn off for Ardee, and get on the N2, follow the road towards Derry, turning off for Letterkenny. From there, you follow the signs for Waterford via sligo, Galway, Limerick and Cork. Taking the M9(N9) out of Waterford, you follow the signs for Dublin, and when you get to Newlands Cross, take a Left.
Now whats wrong with that as a commuter route each morning and evening?

lol im sure thats whats going trough the minister of transports head

spacetweek

Nostradamus wrote: »

Sean Quinn the bazillionaire said something interesting about it a few months back. He said the orbital motorway should be built but with a rail line down the middle.

It's an interesting idea. I have no doubt this baby will get built, but if a railline down the middle can be included it would make it less scary to the Green Party, this might be a workable compromise.

That's a thoroughly rubbish idea. A rail line - to connect what towns and major cities? To connect what train stations? Rail lines down the middle of roads only work in very specific circumstances e.g. when it passes through a densely urbanised area or for a short distance as it heads out to an outlying town. The DOOR will not connect any major cities with towns.

jjbrien

invincibleirish wrote: »

Welcome to Ireland, where have you been while we bought all our cars?

My dad was selling them to people

invincibleirish

jjbrien wrote: »

My dad was selling them to people

Ah yes i think i know him

D.L.R.

spacetweek wrote: »

That's a thoroughly rubbish idea. A rail line - to connect what towns and major cities? To connect what train stations? Rail lines down the middle of roads only work in very specific circumstances e.g. when it passes through a densely urbanised area or for a short distance as it heads out to an outlying town. The DOOR will not connect any major cities with towns.

It would connect Belfast directly to Cork and the Southwest, bypassing Dublin. That has some merit. It would take at least an hour off the current journey, for just 20 or 30 miles of new track. Don't know how feasible it is though, probably not very. Capacity issues would probably sink the idea. Would be great to see an expanded rail network though as it is sadly lacking.

Bards

D.L.R. wrote: »

It would connect Belfast directly to Cork and the Southwest, bypassing Dublin. That has some merit. It would take at least an hour off the current journey, for just 20 or 30 miles of new track. Don't know how feasible it is though, probably not very. Capacity issues would probably sink the idea. Would be great to see an expanded rail network though as it is sadly lacking.

It would not just connect Cork to Belfast, but all the Interurban routes and thus main population centers on the Island

paulm17781

D.L.R. wrote: »

It would connect Belfast directly to Cork and the Southwest, bypassing Dublin. That has some merit. It would take at least an hour off the current journey, for just 20 or 30 miles of new track. Don't know how feasible it is though, probably not very. Capacity issues would probably sink the idea. Would be great to see an expanded rail network though as it is sadly lacking.

Any line like that which does not stop in Dublin will fail.

jd

The gradient requirements for railway are stricter than for roads, so it is not quite as straightforward as just putting lines down the middle.

Victor

paulm17781 wrote: »

Any line like that which does not stop in Dublin will fail.

Agreed, railways like airlines operate from hubs, bypassing a major hub with minor amounts of traffic is nonsense.

Amtmann

Anyone have any new inside info on the DOOR?

I'd be keen to see proposed routes laid out on a map. But has anyone actually done traffic surveys to see if it'd be a viable alternative to the M50?

marmurr1916

There's no need for a DOOR. Upgrade the N33 from the M1 to Ardee to motorway. Then upgrade the N52 from Ardee to Tullamore to motorway. Finally upgrade the N80 from Tullamore to north of Enniscorthy to motorway.

The end result would be a motorway corridor linking all of the major routes to/from Dublin to each other, a corridor linking the main routes to/from urban centres in the south and west with the main routes in the north and east via the midlands.

The route would be much further from Dublin, meaning it's much less likely to be used as a commuter route by traffic in the Greater Dublin area, and it would link the regions to each other in a way which would encourage more balanced development.

A spur from the M1 to the proposed Bremore Port would be sufficient for its operation.

Seth Brundle

I wouldn't have thought that the N52 should be motorway - just a decent road with room for safe overtaking (e.g. alternating 2+1)

BluntGuy

kbannon wrote: »

I wouldn't have thought that the N52 should be motorway - just a decent road with room for safe overtaking (e.g. alternating 2+1)

Yuck. 2+1 roads... no... no... NO!!!

WS2, 2+2, ANYTHING but those hideous creations!!!

But I agree with your point, the N52 doesn't need to be motorway standard, just upgraded to handle more traffic.

marmurr1916

Think of the advantages of having motorways connecting all regions of Ireland to each other without having to go anywhere near Dublin.

For example, you'd be able to travel from the south-east to Galway via the M9, the M80 through the midlands, then west along the M6.

You'd be able to get from the Sligo and the north-west to the south-east via the N2/3/4 then via the M52 to Tullamore and then the M80 to link up with the M9/N10 and N11.

If the N52/N80 were upgraded to motorways there would be much better connectivity between the various regions and better choices of routes. That way we'd avoid the UK's problem of having only a small number of very busy, very congested motorways and have something more like the German system.

Having looked at some maps, a better route would actually be to roughly follow a line north of the N51 from near Drogheda to north of Navan, then a line mid-way between the N51 and N52 to close to Delvin, then roughly follow the N52 to Tullamore, then roughly follow the N80 to near Enniscorthy.

The first section would mean that Drogheda, Navan and Mullingar were linked by a motorway.

The motorways would also form a super-bypass of Dublin, eliminating the need for the DOOR and reducing congestion on the M50.

BluntGuy

marmurr1916 wrote: »

Think of the advantages of having motorways connecting all regions of Ireland to each other without having to go anywhere near Dublin.

For example, you'd be able to travel from the south-east to Galway via the M9, the M80 through the midlands, then west along the M6.

You'd be able to get from the Sligo and the north-west to the south-east via the N2/3/4 then via the M52 to Tullamore and then the M80 to link up with the M9/N10 and N11.

If the N52/N80 were upgraded to motorways there would be much better connectivity between the various regions and better choices of routes. That way we'd avoid the UK's problem of having only a small number of very busy, very congested motorways and have something more like the German system.

Having looked at some maps, a better route would actually be to roughly follow a line north of the N51 from near Drogheda to north of Navan, then a line mid-way between the N51 and N52 to close to Delvin, then roughly follow the N52 to Tullamore, then roughly follow the N80 to near Enniscorthy.

The first section would mean that Drogheda, Navan and Mullingar were linked by a motorway.

The motorways would also form a super-bypass of Dublin, eliminating the need for the DOOR and reducing congestion on the M50.

Agreed.

This stigma of 'every-major-road-leads-to-Dublin' needs to be stamped out.
Imagine Limerick/Cork/Waterford to Belfast traffic all use the M50.

There's surely something wrong there.

marmurr1916

Here's a map of possible route.

Irish and Proud

marmurr1916 wrote: »

There's no need for a DOOR. Upgrade the N33 from the M1 to Ardee to motorway. Then upgrade the N52 from Ardee to Tullamore to motorway. Finally upgrade the N80 from Tullamore to north of Enniscorthy to motorway.

The end result would be a motorway corridor linking all of the major routes to/from Dublin to each other, a corridor linking the main routes to/from urban centres in the south and west with the main routes in the north and east via the midlands.

The route would be much further from Dublin, meaning it's much less likely to be used as a commuter route by traffic in the Greater Dublin area, and it would link the regions to each other in a way which would encourage more balanced development.

A spur from the M1 to the proposed Bremore Port would be sufficient for its operation.

Mostly correct! :cool:

The N52 and N80 will probably have to be upgraded anyway, and S2 and WS2 are not safe road types - 2+1s don't really work, and by the time the DOOR would be built, the traffic on the N52 and N80 routes would probably require a 2+2 layout (prior to DOOR completion). So yeah! Why build the DOOR when an upgrade of the above mentioned routes could easily be brought from 2+2 to motorway standard? The whole thing could then be called the M33. In tandem with your point, this would better serve the National Spatial Strategy. However, I wouldn't agree with your point relating to Braemor Port. The freight traffic would have to travel too far north to avail of the "M33".

Interesting concept though!