Why does Ireland have no right wing nationalist party?

berliner

Ireland must be one of the few countries who don't have a party similar to the BNP in Britain.Why?

Akrasia

berliner wrote: »

Ireland must be one of the few countries who don't have a party similar to the BNP in Britain.Why?

It could be because we've only really had immigration into Ireland in the last 15 years.

berliner

Akrasia wrote: »

It could be because we've only really had immigration into Ireland in the last 15 years.

Yeah,that would explain it.Sinn Fein must be unique in the world in the fact they're ultra nationalist yet left wing and in favour of unrestricted immigration.

billy the squid

It could also have to do with the fact that the likes of the BNP have the whole baggage of racism attached to it. Racism not being that attractive to Irish as we as a race were on the receiving end of it through out history.

Akrasia

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHh3ykPQEl4&feature=related

billy the squid

Akrasia wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHh3ykPQEl4&feature=related

Your point?

Liam Byrne

berliner wrote: »

Ireland must be one of the few countries who don't have a party similar to the BNP in Britain.Why?

We don't have snakes, tarantulas, George Bush or a myriad of other unwelcome things that other countries have, either; why question it ?

Jimbo

The PD's are right wing enough for most people I reckon.
Anyway, if you want to follow a racist party, move up North and join the DUP

greatgoal

ahearn and his cronies are alien enough for me....thanks very much..at least gerry hutch tried to give an explanation last nite...if only he was runnin d country..:cool:

lostexpectation

they hide in FF

Fratton Fred

parties like the BNP exist so that sad ****ers can blame their ****ty lives on someone else.

Sinn Fein fulfil pretty much the same purpose.

Don't get me wrong, that's not an attack on SF but at the moment they meet a need, if/when there is unification then people will have to stop blaming Britain for everything and blame someone else.

lostexpectation

seems right to say SF are the reason, there must be much machination in the party at the mo.

Hagar

That's an insult to SF, there is nothing racist about them. Your view of them is rather narrow I think. SF fulfil a need, one that FF claim to fill but don't.
When unification comes will FF continue to enjoy their cosy position? I don't think so.

If a racist party can find a following in Britain and one has never found a following in Ireland what does that say about our respective cultures?

berliner

billy the squid wrote: »

It could also have to do with the fact that the likes of the BNP have the whole baggage of racism attached to it. Racism not being that attractive to Irish as we as a race were on the receiving end of it through out history.

I don't think the irish are unique or special in some way.Most western european countries have similar parties to the BNP.Just wonder why there's isn't something similar here.And is Sinn feinn's position unusual for an ultra nationalist party.

guinnessdrinker

Unfortunatly it's possible that it's only a matter of time before we have the likes of the BNP here. The BNP were reported to have been recruiting during the loyalist marching season in the North last year.

Hagar

guinnessdrinker wrote: »

Unfortunatly it's possible that it's only a matter of time before we have the likes of the BNP here. The BNP were reported to have been recruiting during the loyalist marching season in the North last year.

Amongst SF supporters or Unionists?

Akrasia

billy the squid wrote: »

Your point?

racism is funny

berliner

jimbo78 wrote: »

The PD's are right wing enough for most people I reckon.
Anyway, if you want to follow a racist party, move up North and join the DUP

DUP racist??????? You have to be joking.They're a protestant british nationalist party.They have no problem with immigration into Ulster.:cool:

is_that_so

It may also be down to the fact that our politics is defend by which of the Civil War you were on and the constant political two shoe shuffle right and left of both FF and FG manage to do. FG with their law and order and Bertie the Socialist with the oul' Bodenstown speech to remind people how republican they are. that and our tendency to moan ,mostly in pubs or these days on Whineline but once the moan is out of the way we forget about it.

Hagar

@ Berliner - My post was a response to Fred, you posted while I was typing my post so it seemed that I responded to your post.

/Edit there is some high speed editing going on here... and it's not me.

Jimbo

berliner wrote: »

DUP racist??????? You have to be joking.They're a protestant british nationalist party.They have no problem with immigration into Ulster.:cool:

Anti Irish-Catholic = Racist

berliner

jimbo78 wrote: »

Anti Irish-Catholic = Racist

They're against the roman catholic church.=not racist

dsmythy

There's none because immigration is only a recent thing to Ireland compared to most other Western European nations. Any downsides of it will take a while to surface and feed any motivation to become nationalistic.

Besides who cares about nation these days when you have the god that is material wealth to seek solace in? If the economy ever went into a downturn then the grounds for nationalism may increase again also.

The social climate as it is right now in Ireland is not providing a breeding ground for nationalistic belief.

Fratton Fred

Hagar wrote: »

That's an insult to SF, there is nothing racist about them. Your view of them is rather narrow I think. SF fulfil a need, one that FF claim to fill but don't.
When unification comes will FF continue to enjoy their cosy position? I don't think so.

If a racist party can find a following in Britain and one has never found a following in Ireland what does that say about our respective cultures?

No, you misunderstand me. As I said my post was not an attack on SF, I admire tham as a party i think they have some of the most dynamic politicians in the country.

Most BNP supporters aren't racist, they are full of hate and they use the BNP to direct that hatred at a race. You've seen some of the eejits that rant and rave on here, they are full of hate. They currently have the British to direct that hatred at and SF (Or maybe RSF would be a better example)are a convenient party for those people.

If/When there is unification, those people will not change, but they will have to find someone else to direct their hatred at, the Poles or the Muslims for example. That is when the Irish Nationalist Party will get more support.

I am not blaming SF for these people, but the people I meet in Dun Laoghaire selling an Phoblacht are very siilar to the people I used to see selling White Power and other such ****e in the UK.

berliner

Are the BNP racist? What is a racist? I checked their website because I like to have the full picture.Are they full of hate? I'll be lashed by the PC brigade but i didn't think so after reading stuff on their website.

wes

berliner wrote: »

Are the BNP racist? What is a racist? I checked their website because I like to have the full picture.Are they full of hate? I'll be lashed by the PC brigade but i didn't think so after reading stuff on their website.

The BNP not racist? Last I checked and this was a while ago (they may have removed this stuff). They had a whole bunch of anti-semitic crap there. They have changed there focus to Muslims instead. Doesn't change what they are one iota.

Stop the BNP has some of the old stuff there leader use to peddle:

http://www.stopthebnp.org.uk/uncovered/pg08.htm

Here is a quote from that link:

Holocaust Denial

Griffin has never withdrawn his views on the Holocaust that landed him with a suspended prison sentence in 1998. His publication The Rune, which denied that the Holocaust ever took place, resulted in a conviction for inciting racial hatred under the Public Order Act. So extreme were Griffin’s beliefs that he attacked David Irving, the leading British Holocaust denier, for daring to admit that some people might have died in the Holocaust, Griffin wrote: “True revisionists will not be fooled by this new twist to the sorry tale of the Hoax of the Twentieth Century”.

Astonishing anyone would claim the BNP are not racist.

Fratton Fred

The BNP are just another way for a few clever guys with right wing vews to make a living out of exploiting a few muppets that believe the ****e they come out with.

Hagar compared British mentality to Irish, maybe tha is a fair comparison, maybe not. But take a look at France, Germany and Holland. They have a far higher support for right wing parties than Britain and they have comparable levels of immigration. Maybe that would be a better comparison, but of course, no one here watches German TV on a daily basis.:rolleyes:

Riddle101

Why would Ireland have a right wing nationalist party. Considering Ireland was known for it's immigration in the past i can't see how we can just turn around and say no foreigners.

berliner

wes wrote: »

The BNP not racist? Last I checked and this was a while ago (they may have removed this stuff). They had a whole bunch of anti-semitic crap there. They have changed there focus to Muslims instead. Doesn't change what they are one iota.

Stop the BNP has some of the old stuff there leader use to peddle:

http://www.stopthebnp.org.uk/uncovered/pg08.htm

Here is a quote from that link:


Astonishing anyone would claim the BNP are not racist.

I don't claim that.i don't really know what the term racist means.I guess it means to hate another race of people.I didn't read anything on their website that was hatred of another race.People throw the term racist around without really knowing what it means.

dsmythy

Riddle101 wrote: »

Why would Ireland have a right wing nationalist party. Considering Ireland was known for it's immigration in the past i can't see how we can just turn around and say no foreigners.

Why not? Nobody had to accept the Irish when they went around the world and we shouldn't have to accept people if we don't want to. Except EU nationals of course. We have lost that right.

What you said is a common reason handed out when anyone talks about restricting immigration to Ireland. I don't think it is a valid argument.

gordon_gekko

i think the reason we dont have a right wing nationalist party is due to the fact that we irish are not a very idealogical people by nature
were only really a passionate people when were drunk , usually before or after a match in croke park ( no not rugby)

most parties here are so of the centre , there a white line in the middle of the road

the comment that the pd,s are right wing enough was absurd by the way

there socially liberal

lostexpectation

berliner wrote: »

Are the BNP racist? What is a racist? I checked their website because I like to have the full picture.Are they full of hate? I'll be lashed by the PC brigade but i didn't think so after reading stuff on their website.

im not going to lash you im just going to ask you not to play dumb.

berliner

i'm not "dumb" just sceptical.When the vast majority say one thing and lash anyone who dissents then you should be sceptical and get the full picture for yourself.

djpbarry

Hagar wrote: »

When unification comes will FF continue to enjoy their cosy position?

Don't you mean "if"?

berliner wrote: »

Are the BNP racist?

In a word, yes.

berliner wrote: »

What is a racist?

:rolleyes:

berliner wrote: »

I checked their website because I like to have the full picture.

Did you read this:

The British National Party exists to secure a future for the indigenous peoples of these islands in the North Atlantic which have been our homeland for millennia. We use the term indigenous to describe the people whose ancestors were the earliest settlers here after the last great Ice Age and which have been complemented by the historic migrations from mainland Europe. The migrations of the Celts, Anglo-Saxons, Danes, Norse and closely related kindred peoples have been, over the past few thousands years, instrumental in defining the character of our family of nations.

It is impossible to trace one's roots back thousands of years with any degree of accuracy. So, how do they determine who is "indigenous" and who is not? By the colour of one's skin of course (even though it is quite possible to be white and have Asian/African ancestors). The fact that there membership is entirely white is also something of a giveaway.

dsmythy wrote: »

Why not? Nobody had to accept the Irish when they went around the world and we shouldn't have to accept people if we don't want to.

But the vast majority of Irish people DO want immigration, largely because we need it.

On the subject of right-wing parties in Ireland, I’m surprised nobody has mentioned these muppets.

bartholomewbinn

“ But the vast majority of Irish people DO want immigration, largely because we need it.”

Why do we need immigration? According to the latest economic forecasts Ireland is not going to create ANY new jobs next year. If there are no new jobs being created we will have higher unemployment among our own people, we certainly will not need to import labour.

The_Minister

jimbo78 wrote: »

The PD's are right wing enough for most people I reckon.

Once again you show your complete ignorance of Irish politics.
The Progessive Democrats are members of the ELDR, who attend the national conference, because they recognise the Progressive Democrats as a liberal party.

On the other hand, Fine Gael is allied with the Tories.
Who is more right-wing?

What party has suggested bootcamps for young people, making prisoners pay for jail?

The Progressive Democrats are a liberal party, both economically and socially (genuinely liberal not authoritarian pseudo-liberal), so their policies tend to be a mix of left and right, like most modern parties.

djpbarry

bartholomewbinn wrote: »

Why do we need immigration? According to the latest economic forecasts Ireland is not going to create ANY new jobs next year. If there are no new jobs being created we will have higher unemployment among our own people, we certainly will not need to import labour.

I find that very hard to believe - are you saying that there will not be one single new job available over the next year?

Besides, just because unemployment is rising, doesn't mean we don't need immigrants to plug holes in certain areas, such as science, engineering and the health professions, for example.

duggie-89

welli would say the PD are quite right wing but not all their policies mainly the ones that people see most off.

i would agree FG are def seen to be the more right wing of parties.

and i dont understand how people can claim that alot of SF supportters are right wing aka "fill that void"

SF are a left party that believes in the national self determination of a people.

guinnessdrinker

djpbarry wrote: »

I find that very hard to believe - are you saying that there will not be one single new job available over the next year?

I think what he is talking about is the ESRI report that was published yesterday that stated that there will be no net employment growth. There will still be jobs being created of course but the jobs being lost are going to affect the overall figure.

bartholomewbinn

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0314/economy.html

This is what I am talking about. “The result of that it says will be that overall, no new jobs will be added to the Irish economy for the first time since 1991.”
And if we need to plug holes in engineering, science and the health service we should first of all be plugging them with Irish people. But of course in relation to the health service, we always seem to be relying on non national doctors, and lately nurses as well,
As an aside, nurses from the Philippines are brilliant. Not only professional and efficient, but polite and warm hearted too. In contrast to a lot of our own Irish nurses.

gordon_gekko

duggie-89 wrote: »

welli would say the PD are quite right wing but not all their policies mainly the ones that people see most off.

i would agree FG are def seen to be the more right wing of parties.

and i dont understand how people can claim that alot of SF supportters are right wing aka "fill that void"

SF are a left party that believes in the national self determination of a people.

ive met quite a few sinn fein voters over the yrs and the only ones who were socially liberal were young sf voters from middle class areas who just voted sf to look trendy

guinnessdrinker

gordon_gekko wrote: »

ive met quite a few sinn fein voters over the yrs and the only ones who were socially liberal were young sf voters from middle class areas who just voted sf to look trendy

Bit of a generalisaton there. You could make that assumption about any social group voting for any party imo.

Rebeller

berliner wrote: »

Yeah,that would explain it.Sinn Fein must be unique in the world in the fact they're ultra nationalist yet left wing and in favour of unrestricted immigration.

ROFL. You've obviously never met the real Sinn Fein; the less media-savvy, presentable members of the organisation who would be just as eager as the current (mal)administration to pitch a tent at the Galway races.

There are no real left-wing parties in this country: left-wing movements yes, parties no.

dsmythy

djpbarry wrote: »

But the vast majority of Irish people DO want immigration, largely because we need it.

On the subject of right-wing parties in Ireland, I’m surprised nobody has mentioned these muppets.

Some immigration people have no problem with, including me. If we had a goal for 20% of the population not to be Irish then people may think differently about that.

Often the talk comes down to money in pockets. Not everyone is so materialistic and you have to wonder who the loudest voices are when you hear them saying "We need them". My opinion is they are not the average worker out there in general and that they tend to be people making money out of cheap labour.

I'd hardly call the ICP a party.

duggie-89

gordon_gekko wrote: »

ive met quite a few sinn fein voters over the yrs and the only ones who were socially liberal were young sf voters from middle class areas who just voted sf to look trendy

i would naturally enough disagree. firstly i think you cant just say that they voted for SF just to look trendy i mean voting isn't a picture fest people may say who there voting for but you wont know for sure.

i have meet just as many if not more being a Firm SF supporter and i can say that if what your saying is that the only SF supporters/members who weren't liberal were the old hands, ok IMO your totaly wrong and also SF has a high propotion of young members who in you opinion are liberal.

to be honest i dont know why i am even talking about it, i thought it was pretty obvious.

LordSutch

Surely Sinn Fein would be the closest 'Irish equivalent' to the British National Party? by which I mean that in the same way the BNP foster a 'Nationalistic British identity' at the expense of any & all other cultures in Britain, Sinn Fein would do the same here (& up North), in other words they would 'eradicate' any sense of 'Britishness' by chasing or imposing their 'Extreme Irish Nationalist' views on all & everybody (if they got the chance). in the same way as the BNP would do in Britain (if they too got the chance).

The BNP are a staunchly British Nationalist Party/ Movement who are extreme in their aims to rid Britain of all other cultures in the same way as Sinn Fein would Love the Tricolour to dominate Ireland (North & South) at the expense of any other culture (ie British culture)!

Another parallel I would draw between the (BNP & SF) would be the use of the Tricolour by Sinn Fein/ IRA, and the Hijacking of the St George Cross by the BNP, which thankfully the 'people' have reclaimed both here & in England in very recent years, but the similarity still remains ~ two very Nationalistic/ Violent movements trying to impose 'their' idea of Nationalism & National identity on the people ....................

Thats just one way of looking at it.

berliner

BNP a "violent movement". Have they ever planted bombs etc.No.

LordSutch

OK, I agree the BNP are /never were as extreme & violent as the IRA, & I agree that the BNP never planted bombs or shot people ~ but surely you must agree to an extent that the BNP have somewhat of an air of menace about them & their 'White purest' ideology?

Het-Field

Most countries with Far Right influences have tended to be (historical) colonial/imperial powers. England, Germany, Russia, France, and Belgium have the most prominant far right aka Neo Nazi forces. They have been colonisers and have held land far far away from their traditional boundaries. They have a sense of superiority ingrained in them. Remember, the British held Australia and the USA in the past !

Riddle101

Why not? Nobody had to accept the Irish when they went around the world and we shouldn't have to accept people if we don't want to. Except EU nationals of course. We have lost that right.

Nobody had to, but they still did accept us, nobody has to accept anyone but the fact is we did it ourselves, now we have to pay the price and give back.

dsmythy

Riddle101 wrote: »

Nobody had to, but they still did accept us, nobody has to accept anyone but the fact is we did it ourselves, now we have to pay the price and give back.

Well i guess if we followed that line of thought then North Americans (and to an extent South Americans), Western Europeans and Australians/New Zealanders would be most welcome in massive numbers.

That thinking is still no excuse to allow, with little restriction, people from most other parts of the world where the Irish did not go to come here in huge numbers in the future.

Personally i don't think we owe anyone, not of Irish descent, anything regardless of where they are from.